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Post by Deleted on Aug 7, 2009 3:25:15 GMT
Hello, everyone. I stumbled upon this place through the SBG through a link from a firearm-centered forum. I am an avid gun enthusiast, but I've been into swords since I was as young as ten. My first "sword" my dad gave me on my 13th birthday, but it was one of those cheap POS sword-shaped objects and broke at the hilt with a weak swing at a twig on the ground. Turns out the tang actually snapped where it met the end cap. It was fixed with epoxy and hangs on my wall to this day. I've had a few better but still useless "swords" since, but at age 19 I think it's time for my first real sword.
I found Kult of Athena through the SBG and after browsing through every model they have thinking I wanted either a medium-short medieval sword or a katana or wakizashi, it clicked in my mind that what I really want is a jian. The SBG review of the Cold Steel Gim looked like my ideal sword.
But I have a few questions:
Are there any other good-quality jian's available at reasonable prices capable of actually doing cutting work? My original budget was actually $150, so even to the CS Gim is a stretch. I don't plan on doing any deforestation with whatever I get, but want it to hold up to years of casual use, cut well, balance well, look good, be awesome, etc. (all things any good sword should aspire to).
I've read some about Jin Shi swords on my time lurking here as my account awaited activating, but on the site there seems to be only one standard one left, and it looks pretty no frills, though I'm sure it's a fine sword. The custom work looks great, but I'm impatient and I think I read they're not taking orders right now. In the future, though, I might not be able to resist one.
Kult of Athena and True Swords both sell the Gim (for $249.99 and $249.59) but which would have best customer service, return policies, which would I have a less chance of getting a lemon from, and which ships fastest?
Those who own the Gim, what do you think about it? I've read some people saying it's a bit heavier than a jian sword should be. And how well is it suited to someone my size--5'7"? Would I need to look into something shorter?
And lastly... how do you pronounce jian? Is it gee-an, zhi-an, jeen, zheen, or something else entirely?
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Post by Deleted on Aug 7, 2009 3:50:29 GMT
I only have experience with Trueswords, and their customer service is so good that I'm willing to pay an extra $10 to buy something from their site. I'm in California, and they're in Georgia, yet it still manages to get to my house in about 3 days. If time is of the essence, TS is probably your way to go.
I think Jin Shi is actually taking orders at this time if you're in the market for a custom. I would email Garrett and ask.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 7, 2009 3:54:32 GMT
Actually now that I look at it, Ji Shi takes PayPal, and for reasons that take too long to explain I can't use my PayPal account right now, so they're ruled out by default, at least for the time being.
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Post by sicheah on Aug 7, 2009 4:08:34 GMT
I think Garrett from Jin-Shi still do special order. Most of us do the special order not the custom orders. Their custom order line are much more expensive and starts off at $700 if I am not wrong.
Send him an email and discuss about your paying method. I am quite sure he will accept payments other than paypal. Bottom line just end him an email or just call him directly at typical office hours.
Its quite difficult to get a functional jian at around $150. In my opinion Garrett Xin Jian is the best bang for the buck at around $200.
If you can wait a little longer, Hanwei is releasing their cutting jian designed by Scott Rodell. I sure hope they are affordable but even the cheapest functional jian like Cold Steel today cost at upper $250. (If Hanwei could get it around upper $100 great I'll buy a few). Not sure when Hanwei will release their cutting jian... but I would speculate sometime around early next year.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 7, 2009 9:36:37 GMT
Unfortunately, there's very little available for functional Jians in the market. And while I've heard rumors that a few other companies are considering jumping into the Chinese sword market those are only rumors.
If you want to go with the CS offerings both KoA and Trueswords have good customer service, ship quickly, and are reputable vendors so you can't really go wrong either way. Though a tad on the heavy side the CS gims are supposed to be good swords and should serve you well. My personal choice is to wait until I have the $$$ for a Jin-Shi custom but that's just me.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 7, 2009 18:01:57 GMT
Thanks for all your input so far, guys. I had a feeling this was a helpful forum. Truth is I don't even know where to begin with a custom jian. I'm actually trying to adapt a design from a sword I drew a long time ago, looking at fittings and such on the internet. Jians can be such beautiful swords. But if I bought one custom I probably wouldn't hold back on design and it might end up costing a fair bit, though Jin Shi swords look extraordinarily good for the price. A custom anything for a little over or under $300 is amazing these days. But currently, though I'm physically able to spend $300 or more on a sword, I'm simply not willing to do that right now. $150 was my limit and I've bumped it to $250. And I'm unable to pay with anything but a card right now. The Gim will probably be my first sword, but in the future I can't see ignoring a custom jian.
Only thing is, it's hard to find information on the Gim online. All I've got are the SBG videos and review and Cold Steel's (naturally) biased demos, though it does look impressive there. And the search function on this forum doesn't include words under four letters. Do any of you guys have experience with it? Does "a tad on the heavy side" detract from its swiftness? Or is it perfectly capable of fast handling, just not as much as a traditional jian? I'm willing to sacrifice a little mobility for a more able blade, but not too much.
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Post by sicheah on Aug 7, 2009 18:42:21 GMT
Cold steel tends to overbuild their swords and emphasize more on cutting rather than the handling. Most of their sword weighs a few ounces more than a similar weapon of its size and that is also true for their gim. Most antique jian/gim weights between 1.8 pound to 2 pound but cold steel is close to 2.2lb. For a martial arts practitioners, weight handling of the sword is actually quite an important component as they are designed to be swift and deadly slicers. Nevertheless a few additional ounces should not matter too much after getting used to it. In addition since cold steel gim is slightly overbuilt for cutting the point of balance is a little closer to the guard than a typical antique jian (by an inch or so). That helps with handling somewhat. Nevertheless, cold steel gim is still the most affordable jian under $300 if Jin-Shi plain Xin jian is no longer available (my personal opinion). On the other hand, if you are willing to spend a little more on jian, arms and armor jian is by far the closest to an antique jian. But their jian cost $500 and does not come with scabbard  . As for me, I might wait a little longer until Hanwei releases their cutting jian. Here is a review of arms and armor jian if you are interested: forum.grtc.org/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=890Here is where you can get Arms and Armor jian: armor.com/sword222.htmlBottom line: If you are strict on the $250 budget and don't mind the little extra weight and want it now, CS gim is the best option for you. Also you don't need to worry too much on quality control if you buy it from KoA or trueswords. Lots of people are happy with their CS Gim for what it is worth. If handling matters a lot to you, and want the feel of an antique jian, save some some money and get either a custom Jin-Shi or Arms and armor, or wait a while for Hanwei "cutting jian". Edit: Grammar and that a jian with 30 inch blade should be at least 1.7-1.8lb not 1.5lb as mentioned. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 7, 2009 23:32:00 GMT
hey sich, you know anything about price for the Scott Rodell piece? Guesses welcome.
My fav is the A&A and the Peon from Seven Stars Trading, but need to compare prices...plus no sheath from A&A is a bummer...
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Post by sicheah on Aug 7, 2009 23:47:14 GMT
Well I don't know the price of Scott Rodell designed from Hanwei but if I were to speculate I would say at least upper $200 and higher. The reason for such speculation is because even the cheapest functional jian (CS gim or KC gim II) is around $200. Even basic Huanuo jian cost a little below $500 and have a flattened diamond cross section blade geometry. Well I hope I am wrong. It would be lovely if they cost below $200 which is actually possible given manufacturing technology available. Why do I say that? Well their basic practical katana retails around $150, so why not a plain jian? If they do cost below $200 that will literally revolutionize the cutting Chinese jian market.... I really do hope I am wrong  . Then I will be homeless with tons of jians. Between those two, I will pick the A&A jian because according to Scott Rodell, the most historically accurate jian at its price range, given the fact that Scott Rodell is affiliated with Seven Stars Trading. Yeah no scabbard is a real bummer but I could get someone at SBG to make me one for a fee. What the heck, I'll make myself one lol. Just my personal preference of course. Edit: Here is a discussion of Hanwei cutting jian at GRTC forum forum.grtc.org/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=795At this moment, no news on release date Edit: Ah thank for the reminder Bloodwraith, I'll change it right away. Sorry about that. |
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Post by shadowhowler on Aug 8, 2009 1:45:16 GMT
There is one Gim sword left in Kris Cutlery's Scratch and dent section... it has a few issues, some pitting on the guard and the scabbard is slightly warped... but its on sale for 115.
I had one of these, and found it to be a VERY simple looking sword, but a very effective cutter a well balanced as well.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 8, 2009 2:51:30 GMT
It is Scott Rodell not Scott Rondell, a person's name is important so spelling it correctly is important too.
If you have a sword that you have drawn and which you'd really like to get made you should talk to Chris (Archerout) at Scorpion Bows and Knives, he makes good custom pieces for a reasonable price.
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Post by sicheah on Aug 8, 2009 3:16:13 GMT
Ah thanks Bloodwraith, +1 for that. I did not realize my mistake all along. Real sorry about that  No wonder I am having a tough time finding his name on search engine. Should have known better |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 8, 2009 3:16:37 GMT
Just to answer your last question, jian is pronounced jee-en or basically as if you're saying the letters G and N in succession. The jee part should be slightly shorter than the en, and the accent is on the en.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 8, 2009 3:39:32 GMT
hmm I was always taught that it was g-ahn, the ahn part sounds like the arn in barn. The g is crisp the ahn is a slightly drawn out sound and it is also a slightly throaty sound.
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Post by sicheah on Aug 8, 2009 3:50:03 GMT
I think Opferous is correct. There are some audio tools regarding mandarin pronunciation on the internet. 1) Go to this website: mandarintools.com/chardict.html2) Under English Look-up, type "sword" (without parenthesis) and click "Search by English" 3)Once on the new page, at the very first word entry, click on jian4 under Pinyin heading. A women's voice will automatically appear, pronouncing the word. (Might need Apple's quicktime application to work) Hope that helps In case anyone wants to know how to pronounce gim, it is pronounced "kim" as in Kim Jong Il, the North Korean leader. Lol |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 8, 2009 4:01:04 GMT
It's not actually said like kim, you mean, right? You mean to say it's like gym?
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Post by sicheah on Aug 8, 2009 4:07:47 GMT
Well I guess it is common for Americans to pronounce it as gym. As a Cantonese decent, I am quite sure it is suppose to be pronounce closer to "kim" than "gym". (Cantonese is a really hard language to learn...much harder than Mandarin IMO ) I think I recall one guy from Cold steel pronouncing it as gym. Well... toMEHtos or toMAHtoes...they taste delicious nonetheless I am sure most people know this, but gim (Cantonese) and jian (Mandarin) are the same thing, just as Dou (Cantonese) and Dao (Mandarin). Dou is pronounce as in to-fu (mmm...fried tofu ) and Dao as in "Taoism" (or Daoism). |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 8, 2009 4:47:23 GMT
thanks for the info. i've never liked hanwei but maybe with scott involved hmm..
you know now that i think of it, maybe i like seven stars cuz of that girl on the site..
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Post by sicheah on Aug 8, 2009 5:08:08 GMT
Yea that girl is kinda cute lol. Well Huanuo have some really good stuff and it is more affordable than Zheng-Wu forge or Qing Zhong forge to my knowledge. But when Jin-Shi and A&A jian arrives at the scene (and maybe Hanwei cutting jian soon)...well I can get cheaper and reliable sources from Jin-Shi and a more historically accurate (but no scabbard ) from A&A. I personally think more competition in Chinese sword market is great for consumers like us. Would be nice if sometime in the near future, a price of a basic functional jian is comparable to price of a windlass sword.  |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 8, 2009 5:21:45 GMT
Well i'm picky because i was trained in VN with the jian (kiem), and I remember the geometry was more oval, not diamond...I think the A&A is like that, and supposely Rodell's too.
Another thing I'm curious about...I heard Paul Chen will be making his own steel for this? Should be really interesting.
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. As for me, I might wait a little longer until Hanwei releases their cutting jian. 
. Then I will be homeless with tons of jians.
No wonder I am having a tough time finding his name on search engine. Should have known better 
