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Post by sicheah on Aug 8, 2009 5:43:01 GMT
Not sure about any of these at all  Just from the discussion at grtc forum: forum.grtc.org/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=795 Scott Rodell say back in late January, their cutting jian should be out in 3 to 6 months time. Now it is early August and there is no sign of release date. Huh, maybe is because of US recession? |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 8, 2009 6:09:54 GMT
So the word can be pronounced completely different from how it's written? Hm, Eastern languages are tough. So it's really pronounced as "kim"? Cold Steel Kim. The Kim sword. Odd.
I wonder if I should feel like I'm insulting an entire culture for being more interested in the gim than a blade more true to the original jian style. Or is it more like preferring Cherry Coke to regular Coke?
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Post by Deleted on Aug 8, 2009 6:18:16 GMT
kim means sword, dao means knife. da-dao means big mother ******* knife  lol |
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Post by sicheah on Aug 8, 2009 6:37:24 GMT
If I am not mistaken, when Westerners are attempting to translate Cantonese to English in sometime around late 19th century, different translator uses different roman alphabet to denote the same pronunciation. Some use "Hs", others uses "X" So words like Hsiao and Xiao are actually the same word depending on which translation "version" one used. Of course nowadays it is more standardized and much easier to learn with audio devices. Nevertheless, in my opinion, Cantonese is still a harder language compared to Mandarin (debatable) But I am no language expert. So take it with a little grain of salt. Gim and jian refers to the Chinese character 劍, the only difference is one is pronounce in Cantonese and the other in Mandarin respectively. Most of us just refer to the jian as it is more widely use. They are the same thing. (Dou or dao refers to same Chinese character 刀, only one is in Cantonese and the other in Mandarin respectively) Not sure which gim you are referring to but my guess will be CS Gim, great cutter IMO. Antique gim/jian are built with less beefy blade compared to CS Gim because jians are not really heavy cutters but designed for quick slashing (but they still can cut  ). By the way most of Cold Steel swords are geared towards cutting anyway, no surprise there. If you are more into backyard cutting, CS Gim works wonder (Maybe better than Rodell's designed Hanwei jian if you allow me to speculate). In fact it's one of Paul Southren favorite sword according to his review on CS Gim. Personally I am more interested in Chinese swords designed for military used such as Han dynasty jian or Willow-leaf daos. You could say it's like a Cherry/Regular Coke thing. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 8, 2009 7:53:32 GMT
I realized the "Sh" "X" thing, but never really gave it any thought.
I always thought different languages were fascinating. Gotta set out to learn one someday. Again thank you all for your input. I think I'll place the order Tuesday and then settle down as the agony of waiting kicks in.
Drat, it's already starting!
I hope this doesn't turn into an addiction. I can see that happening.
Wish there was a place for a tassle on the CS Gim. I kind of wanted one on it.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 8, 2009 8:56:25 GMT
since when does A&A make a jian?
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Post by Deleted on Aug 8, 2009 14:35:29 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Aug 8, 2009 21:54:34 GMT
Thanks for all your input so far, guys. I had a feeling this was a helpful forum. Truth is I don't even know where to begin with a custom jian. I'm actually trying to adapt a design from a sword I drew a long time ago, looking at fittings and such on the internet. Jians can be such beautiful swords. But if I bought one custom I probably wouldn't hold back on design and it might end up costing a fair bit, though Jin Shi swords look extraordinarily good for the price. A custom anything for a little over or under $300 is amazing these days. But currently, though I'm physically able to spend $300 or more on a sword, I'm simply not willing to do that right now. $150 was my limit and I've bumped it to $250. And I'm unable to pay with anything but a card right now. The Gim will probably be my first sword, but in the future I can't see ignoring a custom jian. Only thing is, it's hard to find information on the Gim online. All I've got are the SBG videos and review and Cold Steel's (naturally) biased demos, though it does look impressive there. And the search function on this forum doesn't include words under four letters. Do any of you guys have experience with it? Does "a tad on the heavy side" detract from its swiftness? Or is it perfectly capable of fast handling, just not as much as a traditional jian? I'm willing to sacrifice a little mobility for a more able blade, but not too much. Paying with the old credit/ debit card is my choice of weapon in the market place as well. When I was ready to order from JIN-SHI, I found out they do paypal, I was truly bummed out. So I emailed Garrett, explained the situation about not wanting allow paypal access to my bank account. He explained to me how to set up a paypal account, and use my debit card, which is basically a use by use way of using paypal, and I checked it out. There were no problems after that. He bills into paypal account, it shows up in my paypal account, I typed in my card number... badabing... I got a new sword, and paypal doesn't have access to my bank. I have read some negative reviews regarding paypal, from the seller's standpoint, but from the buyer's standpoint, it is probably safer than putting your card # in the hands of someone that you haven't ever met, face to face. If you are using a prepaid debit... well I would have to check w/ paypal. I haven't tried that yet. I do know that if you were to purchase online that would be safer than your bank card, but paypal wasn't too bad at all. Hope this helps. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 9, 2009 0:33:10 GMT
I've used pay-pal with a prepaid debit card. it's works just as well as using any other credit/debit card. I haven't had any problems whatsoever.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 9, 2009 3:58:06 GMT
To expand somewhat on sicheah's linguistic explanation...
Early Western contact with China was through the Cantonese provinces. So translations were based on Cantonese Chinese (this not merely another dialect, but an entire, separate, though related, language). In the 20th century, those translations began to be based on Mandarin, China's equivalent of Holt Deutsch, or High German. The similarities betwen German and Chinese linguistic histories are incredible.
Essentially, they each suffer from dozens or more different related languages. Eventually, the ruling party got tired of people from one province or city being unable to communicate with people from another and instituted a mandatory Over-language that Everyone would learn.
And, since Mandarin is the Official Chinese language of the entire country, translations are based on it rather than Cantonese, which is the language of just a single geographical section of the nation.
And it all gets REALLY fun when you start messing with tones. Long story short, I still can't pronounce my wife's name right.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 9, 2009 4:30:35 GMT
Thanks for all your input so far, guys. I had a feeling this was a helpful forum. Truth is I don't even know where to begin with a custom jian. I'm actually trying to adapt a design from a sword I drew a long time ago, looking at fittings and such on the internet. Jians can be such beautiful swords. But if I bought one custom I probably wouldn't hold back on design and it might end up costing a fair bit, though Jin Shi swords look extraordinarily good for the price. A custom anything for a little over or under $300 is amazing these days. But currently, though I'm physically able to spend $300 or more on a sword, I'm simply not willing to do that right now. $150 was my limit and I've bumped it to $250. And I'm unable to pay with anything but a card right now. The Gim will probably be my first sword, but in the future I can't see ignoring a custom jian. I'd say you could look at this:  at www.kriscutlery.com/ navigate to the Chinese Scratch and Dent sale - $115. It's the 5160 KC design - very good and tough blade. The imperfections are minor, just ask the seller what you need to do to fix. While having fun with that, you can save for a custom jian which at the moment, i would only go with A&A - just make the sheath custom and there you go. Or you can really save and get this:  Anyone recognize? |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 9, 2009 4:47:09 GMT
Pfft, it's a John Lundemo, pretty hard to miss, he has a rather unique style, although I would be guessing at least 2 grand for something like that.
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Post by sicheah on Aug 9, 2009 4:47:26 GMT
A custom made jian by John Ludemo? When I click on the picture, the photobucket link gives me the hint  2 grand? Wow, I might need to sell my entire sword collection and skip a few month's rent just to get one made On the other hand... I might buy a 4 row-twistcore willow leaf from dao Garrett (that is if he still has one). |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 9, 2009 4:51:12 GMT
No way that thing looks like a western sword pretending to be a chinese jian and is ugly to boot. For that kind of money I would be talking to my old friend garrett over at Jin Shi, I am sure he could beat that price or match it with something that I would be proud to own. A&A should stick to what it knows quite frankly, brilliant western swords.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 9, 2009 6:05:03 GMT
That John Lundemo blade looks fantastic, though I can see my own custom jian (somewhere down the road) looking quite different. I'm imagining things about it, putting it together in my mind...
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Post by sicheah on Aug 9, 2009 6:48:20 GMT
Aside from aesthetics, you really need to know what and how the jian is used as well as the handling aspect of the jian. Regarding the historical aspects and function of the jian, books and information from sword forum/reviews could help you in that. Feel free to ask questions in this forum or in SFI. To actually understand the handling of the jian requires well... handling various jian. Buy or borrow one of two functional jian (Cold Steel, Kris Cutlery, cheap jin-shi custom... etc). Compare and contrast the handling of the jian and see what "kind" of jian "suits you". Keep the ones you like and sell the ones you don't really like. If you are poor like me, go ahead and read the sword reviews by Scott Rodell in his GRTC forum (listed below). The worst thing that could happen is to spend a great deal on a custom jian (with long waiting periods) and later find out that you prefer the handling of a much cheaper jian. Might want to check out some of these websites/fora below: Great River Taoist Center (GRTC): www.grtc.org/ (don't forget to check out the forum) forum.grtc.org/viewforum.php?f=18Thomas Chen on historical Chinese weapons thomaschen.freewebspace.com/index.html Chinese History Forum: www.chinahistoryforum.com/Just my 2 cents. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 9, 2009 11:03:21 GMT
Honestly in my opinion if you are looking at custom down the track, you really should get some training in at least how to make the basic cuts. A jian feels very different in the cut. All swords handle uniquely, that is why many of us have specialised in our training and only when we have an understanding of the mechanics do we move onto another blade. Having said that many backyard cutters like to experiment and play around. It is a matter of whether you just want to cut stuff up or whether you actually want to advance in understanding of the weapon in your hand.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 9, 2009 11:51:19 GMT
the kin-shi jian is a little small to me...and the A&A is the most authentic out there right now...i mean, how many jians with clamshell geometry do you see out there? even the chinese made ones suck.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 9, 2009 15:23:10 GMT
Jin-Shi will make to any length you want. 80-82 cm is the preferred blade length for me, and the style of Taijiquan sword I am learning and Garrett will get built to suit.
As for Geometry is you look closely at Thomas Chen's website both clamshell and flattened diamond geometry are found at different periods. That the A&A piece looks to be a good Jian I will not argue, but personally I don't like it's styling and the blade doesn't really call to me. Now the Han Jian that Garrett had made for Swordsage calls me like a siren's song. But that's just me.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 9, 2009 18:35:53 GMT
That Lundemo Jian didn't cost $2000. It only cost $1200 with scabbard. Of course this was almost 4 years ago. I don't know what he charges nowadays.
I don't use it much anymore since I now train with my various antique jian. It's been sitting in a cabinet with dessicant packs unused for almost 3 years now.
The blade is differentially hardened and is very sharp, handle was changed to a green hardwood grip as the original rayskin handle was too skinny.
Sword is very light, about 1.75 lbs.
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lol
). By the way most of Cold Steel swords are geared towards cutting anyway, no surprise there. If you are more into backyard cutting, CS Gim works wonder (Maybe better than Rodell's designed Hanwei jian if you allow me to speculate). In fact it's one of Paul Southren favorite sword according to his review on CS Gim. 
