Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 23, 2009 0:39:30 GMT
Hey guys,
I am just wondering if I take a blade profile from say albion with all the measurements and weights and what not and then put a different assembly onto the piece am I breaching copyright? Would I be breaching copyright if I used the whole kit and kaboodle with no intention of selling it, only using it for my personal use? I got to thinking how lovely it would be to say have a bristol or something in pattern-welded steel and it made me wonder if I took the blade specs and had it made with the intention to have a different hilt assembly and furniture am I doing anything immoral or possibly illegal?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 23, 2009 0:52:05 GMT
As long as you aren't selling it, it doesn't matter. It shouldn't matter anyway.
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Avery
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Post by Avery on Jul 23, 2009 0:59:12 GMT
Given that you are planning to keep it for use, and the hilt stlye will be different than the blade you are getting the specs from, I really don't see a problem. Also, when you think about it, almost all modern production peices are based on historical blades, who's borrowing from who, and where does it end?
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Post by kidcasanova on Jul 23, 2009 1:00:37 GMT
I believe they could still send you a cease and desist if they could prove that it will hurt their company (ie you making one instead of buying one leaves them out of the revenue they would have had if you had bought one). Most companies don't care as long as you aren't selling the piece, though.
Edit: As Avery pointed out, if you're using a different hilt design, then there's no problem. My post really only counts if you're doing an exact copy, and then they could only do anything about it if the sword they made wasn't a direct copy of a historical example.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 23, 2009 1:03:09 GMT
I think if you make this sword yourself, and have no intention of ever selling it then it is a moot point. Who would know or care? On the other hand, toward the end of your post, you say the words "have it made", which would indicate to me involving a third party. This changes things as far as I'm concerned and may be a violation of copyright laws. I may be wrong as I'm no lawyer.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 23, 2009 1:11:29 GMT
I know a company in the states that does beautiful pattern welded steel blades for a reasonable (relative) price, thought it might be worth inspecting their product further at some point.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 23, 2009 13:47:51 GMT
Even though they are dead, the ancient smiths it seems do not have a problem with Albion so closely measuring they're swords But seriously, as long as it doesn't look extremely similar, and you are not calling yourself AL-BION or ARBION or ALDION or something similar and aren't blatantly knocking off designs then it should be fine.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 23, 2009 13:56:57 GMT
Well, this is put on each sword's page:
Sword design/specifications ©2003/2007 Peter Johnsson.
So... as long as it isn't exactly the same, it should be ok, right?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 23, 2009 15:08:56 GMT
It depends on where you are, bloodwraith. Most companies will not go after someone using their copyrighted material in a manner that does not earn the user money, despite being able to sue those persons in some countries (Germany, for instance, in the case of software and games).
In the US, they have no power whatsoever to go after you for using copyrighted material of any kind in a way that does not make you money.
It all comes down to money. You going to make any money off this blade or use it in any kind of advertisement meant to bring in money in some fashion?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 23, 2009 16:31:13 GMT
I hate to bring up the particulars since they'll sound like I have it in for Albion--which is far from the truth, I like their swords and I'm very glad they exist. (Wedge-fit guards. Simple, makers. Why didn't you figure out the historical makers wedge fit their damn guards? Do you know how much heartache Windlass would have spared me over the years by assembling their guards historically?)
Nevertheless, don't be fooled by the differences between intellectual property claims and what anyone has a legal leg to stand on. Those roller coasters that have signs up that you "ride at your own risk?" Hardly, you get hurt, you sue, they'll be found liable, like clockwork. The warning is try to scare off at least some of those suits. And copyright registration? Hell, I could send in a copyright registration on a transcription of Twilight and probably get it passed. These are just clerks processing paperwork--they do not go through and compare the billions of pages of material against existing material for infractions.
And no, I'm not an IP lawyer. But I have been in the writing, technical writing and bioengineering field for more than twenty years. "I know IP lawyers. I work with IP lawyers. IP lawyers are friends of mine ..."
Any and every piece Albion has that is painstakingly based on measurements of a museum piece--and I mean any and every piece--is long past the period to be considered "in the public domain." Uh, by like a few hundred to a thousand years or more. If Albion ever tried to fight it out in court against any lawyer that wasn't fresh out of law school (Well, and drunk. And high.) they would get their rear quarters handed to them. In fact, a dogged countersuit for them filing a frivolous suit could bankrupt them.
Again, I have nothing against Albion. I'm glad they put in all the work they do. And I can understand them wanting to claim IP protection, given that effort. But that doesn't make their IP claims worth a lick. Sorry.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 23, 2009 22:49:46 GMT
If in real doubt, ask Albion, they will tell you straight, no harm no foul
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Post by Deleted on Jul 23, 2009 23:01:05 GMT
If its for your own use then you can do whatever you want.
Agreed with lemal. They would have no legal ground to stand. They could try but it would fall flat.
No, DONT email them to ask. You could drudge something up that isnt needed.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 23, 2009 23:14:42 GMT
thanks guys, I'm not silly enough to email them lol. I just thought I would ask in case I go ahead and get something generic rather than one of my own designs, it is always good to know where I stand in a legal sense.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 24, 2009 9:54:38 GMT
Historical measurements are public domain - so as long as you're not making an exact knock-off and trying to sell it you're fine. Just compare the Jian measurements between Huano forge and Zheng Wu those are almost identical and many of the swords have similar furnishings, but since they are both using historical designs there's no copyright infringement.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 24, 2009 14:38:05 GMT
thanks guys, I'm not silly enough to email them lol. I just thought I would ask in case I go ahead and get something generic rather than one of my own designs, it is always good to know where I stand in a legal sense. If you want to be certain where you stand, legally, you need to ask a copyright lawyer. None of us here are really qualified to give official legal advice. But I wouldn't go to that kind of expense unless you're trying to make money off your design. That's the only time it would be a concern.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 24, 2009 17:14:29 GMT
I think the copyright exists for that particular sword- the named ones, Knight, Condottiere, whatever.
If you don't plan on marketing this as an Albion original or what have you, you should be fine. Since you plan on keeping it, you're golden. If you ever decide to sell it, you can say its an Albion blade, but the hardware is an upgrade on your part.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 24, 2009 17:36:54 GMT
Well, he can't say that without Albion's stamp on the blade.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 29, 2009 14:33:01 GMT
All Albion blades come with their maker's mark, do they not?
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Post by Tom K. (ianflaer) on Jul 29, 2009 15:00:31 GMT
Yup Albion marks their blades.
every country has it's different laws but I think they all pretty much agree that if you put your own work into it, the work you've done is yours and the end product is at least part yours if not all yours.
there are loads of people modifying Ablion blades and getting paid to do it. I doubt you'd have a problem even if you did sell it.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 30, 2009 1:44:33 GMT
All Albion blades come with their maker's mark, do they not? But he's not using an Albion blade. He's using the specs of an Albion blade to make one of his own. BIG difference.
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