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Post by Deleted on Jul 19, 2009 16:06:13 GMT
I know, another western newbie sword thread…sorry, but I really would appreciate your input. I recently won a gift certificate to the SBG store. So I thought this would be a great opportunity to get a western sword - without triggering an attack of the dreaded SSS (spousal sword syndrome). I have been hankering after a western style sword since I saw Mike’s and Ric’s videos last spring . So….I can’t decide, and I would like to ask all the western style aficionados and practitioners if they could help me decide which one to get (from the SBG store). A little about me…just so you know who the sword will be for, and what I would like in a sword. I train pretty regularly in a Korean Sword Art and 2 different JSAs. I also went to fight practices at the local SCA (sword and board) this past fall and winter, but stopped shortly after I found my local JSAs. I like to learn how to use swords. I am 5'2ish" and am in OK shape for my age . I am female. I usually use a katana, but I do not want another katana right now (I am saving money for something out of our venue here). I have been mulling over the VA Atrim Practicals and the Hanwei Tinker line. These swords appealed to me because they were designed by respected men in the field, for the user in mind. I do love the VA signature series too, but it is the dress I love… not so sure about the swords themselves for me? I am not sure if you have enough info, but if you had to pick any western sword out of the SBG store for me - what would you get? And yes (sorry), I do not know if would like a single hander or a longsword, but I do like the advice I have been given: to get one or the other and not something in between – that just makes sense to me. So, which one first? Thanks for any help or input you have time for - I'm off to practice - I will check in tonight, Debbie
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Post by ShooterMike on Jul 19, 2009 16:16:09 GMT
Debbie,
My first thought would be toward a light single hander, just because you've already got a little experience with sword&board. And that shows an interest in that direction as well.
If we assume that for a moment, really any of the VA single handers would be an acceptable choice. I would suggest you choose based on weight and personal preference for the aesthetics. My personal opinion is that the Castile would be heavier than you'd prefer. That really leaves the choices of the Bristol and Practical arming sword, in the VA line. Or wait until the Crusader makes it to our shores?
Choices, choices... but IMO you can't really go wrong with any of them.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 19, 2009 16:29:42 GMT
I think that the bristol might be what you are looking for deb. Now I have never handled this particular sword but I have handled swords with the same lengths, weights etc and having seen the way you toss a katana around I think that a light single hander like the bristol would be great for you, especially as an entry level sword. Looking at the other swords in the store I stand by the bristol.
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Post by YlliwCir on Jul 19, 2009 16:36:07 GMT
Debbie, if I was a 5'2"ish gal of your description and was going to buy a western sword from the SBG store, I'd get the VA practical LS. I'd get that one even if I was a 5'10"ish fella kinda like me. Wait, I did!
Seriously I've been very happy with mine and it is a fun and easy sword to use. Also has the advantage of being manageable with one hand should the urge arise. A good blade for practicing long sword techniques ala "Fighting with the German Long Sword" style.
A word of warning, once I got the LS I couldn't rest till I got the Arming sword as well. It also is a good choice but if I could only have one or the other, it'd be the LS no question.
Although as Mike has already pointed out, if you mean to practice shield work, I'd say the Practical Arming.
Anyhoo, happy hunting and welcome to the light.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 19, 2009 17:24:03 GMT
There is a surprisingly big difference between one handers and longswords. Which is better is completely personal and is not really knowable (is that a word?) until you try it. Sorry for that useless bit of "wisdom". I agree with the others. The VA line offers the best options (in my opinion, of course). The practical arming sword is an excellent sword to learn on. It is light (mine weighs 2lbs 1oz), handles wonderfully, and is durable. Best of all it is inexpensive ($215.99). The Bristol is really beautiful and I think you would love it. But it is a little more money ($383.99). Though it is worth every penny and then some. If you go longsword, again the VA practical is the way to go. It costs a little more than the arming sword ($239.99). The Kriegschwert is awesome, and I love mine, but it is a bit heavier (just about 3lbs vs 2lbs 9ozs). And, of course, cost more ($399.99). But oh! What a lovely sword! Actually, for $72 more than the Bristol you can get the longsword and the arming sword I don't have first hand experience with the Tinker/Hanwei line so I can't comment on that. Although I do wonder if they have they same sharpness issues of the other Hanwei Euro line or has Tinker fixed that? I have become very interested in Tinker's work in the past few weeks. He makes some really fantastic swords and is one really cool guy. I hope I helped even a little. Keep us updated!
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Post by Deleted on Jul 19, 2009 17:32:30 GMT
The Tinker stuff is really good, too, but unfortunately they have the famous Hanwei edge. If you can sharpen your swords I'd suggest the Tinker/Hanwei Bastard sword. It's very light and shorter than the longsword. Sounds perfect for you, I think. I also can be handled with one or two hands very easily. The VA practical swords are very good, too. Hard to pick, I guess. About the Bristol, there was a tang failure reported in here and it seems like the threaded rod was welded on which is NO good. If that proves to be the case on all Bristols it leaves me kinda wondering if the Bristol really is a good buy.
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Post by Tom K. (ianflaer) on Jul 19, 2009 18:19:29 GMT
Debbie, I'm solidly with Mike on this one, think about what you want to do and pick either the practical arming sword (at303)/ bristol for single handed use (I lean toward arming sword because it's more my style but bristol may be more yours), or if you want to learn longsword get the AT304 practical long but I wonder if perhaps the longswords might be heavier than you like. the katana you use are mostly around 2 pounds flat right? ok consider this:
Single hand: it's an entirely new style for you, using one hand instead of two, there's only one surviving historical document covering the use of sword and shield = I.33 which has been translated and is easily available
Longsword: is going to have more in common with your current style in body motion but this is deceptive because there is still a vast difference that may cause confusion or it may cause you to pick it up all the faster
I suggest you watch some youtube videos on the two different styles and decide which one you like better.
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Post by brotherbanzai on Jul 19, 2009 19:02:46 GMT
Long sword! Get a long sword! Sorry, I'm biased If you do opt for a longsword, the Tinker/Hanwei version will be the easiest for you to wield because of it's blade configuration. However the hilt on the Atrim/VA longsword is better looking (in my opinion) and a more 'all around' sword design, whereas the Tinker is more thrust oriented. Of course the kriegschwert is gorgeous. After reading the thread about the tang breakage on the Bristol, however, I think I'd wait to see what's up with the tang design before I personally would get a VA.
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Post by shadowhowler on Jul 19, 2009 20:03:17 GMT
After reading the thread about the tang breakage on the Bristol, however, I think I'd wait to see what's up with the tang design before I personally would get a VA. I think that its certainly worth while to find out whats up with the tang/rod issue that led to that breakage... but by the same Token, I also have a Bristol I have cut with many times now and it has not given me any issues at all. Lets not condem a whole line of swords for the falure of one. Now... for Deb... As has been sugggested, I think you should decide what you want out of the sword... that will help you pick a direction. If you want to focus on an entirly different form of fighting... such as a sword and shield... then the Arming sword or Bristol might be good for you. At your size, unless your wrists are really strong, I would advise the bristol over the arming sword for single handed sword work... but its tricky because you never know what your body is going to be comfortable with till you try it out. Unless you are willing the sharpen the sword yourself, you may want to hold of on the Hanwei Tinker swords, as they do not seem to have addressed the edge issues yet. The Arming sword has the option of picking up the blunt and the sharp if you want to train with it... something to consider. As Tom mentioned, the Long Sword will be more like a Katana in some very basic ways... but it will not perform like one in a lot of other ways also. Still, you might find it very comfortable and figure out ways to adapt easily... and it would be a good choice if you are NOT so interested in the shield. So many choices... ;D
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Post by YlliwCir on Jul 19, 2009 20:15:37 GMT
Hell, some of you boys are talking like she's only gonna get one.
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Post by shadowhowler on Jul 19, 2009 20:49:52 GMT
Hell, some of you boys are talking like she's only gonna get one. Oh, of course not... once she gets a westie she will be hooked and come back for more... just saying that the first choice is an important one.
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Marc Ridgeway
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Post by Marc Ridgeway on Jul 19, 2009 21:20:31 GMT
Me being me... I'd go for the practical longsword at first. I'm coming around to one-handers... but its been an uphill climb from kats to arming swords...
A longsword really smooths the transition from Japanese to European... did for me anyway. I've had several Euro singlehanders... including a few ATrims... but never really fell in love with Euros til I got a longsword...
I have to say I am a fan of the VA line...but if the Tinker line is preferred, doesnt Tinker offer to tune em up for a few bucks? Or is that only if you buy them from him?
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Post by shadowhowler on Jul 19, 2009 21:27:41 GMT
but if the Tinker line is preferred, doesnt Tinker offer to tune em up for a few bucks? Or is that only if you buy them from him? He does mess with em... he has 'stages'... like stage 0 and stage 1 or so, if I recall. I'm not sure if you have to buy em from him or if you can send them to him... Edit: I just checked his site, and yeah, the modifications are if you buy directly from him.
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Post by brotherbanzai on Jul 19, 2009 22:22:51 GMT
I'm not condemning the whole line, I'm saying if it were me, "I think I'd wait to see what's up with the tang design before I personally would get a VA." I wouldn't feel comfortable recommending a sword to someone if I thought there was a possibility of a significant design flaw. Sonny seems to be a stand up guy from everything I know of him. I would expect that if there is a flaw, he'll take steps to correct it. If it was a fluke, he'll let us know that too, but without knowing which it is, I'd wait.
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Marc Ridgeway
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Post by Marc Ridgeway on Jul 19, 2009 22:27:17 GMT
I may be wrong... but wasnt the threaded rod welded on on the first batch of practicals, which has since been changed?
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Post by Deleted on Jul 19, 2009 23:03:40 GMT
Is the failure of one tang of a possibly misused sword indicative of any sort of widespread failure? Even discounting the misuse that's a very small failure rate. I have 2 VA swords and they have been put through their paces and i have had no tang failures. Or any other failures for that matter.
Personally I think it's a little silly of anyone being "worried" about it. Interested? Yes. Enough to hold off from buying or recommending VA? No way.
(And the rods on my swords do not appear to be welded on. Can't say about the Bristol though)
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Post by brotherbanzai on Jul 20, 2009 0:23:15 GMT
People aren't worried about one tang failure. They are worried about what that one tang failure seemed to show about how all the tangs may be assembled. Which looked like it could be a threaded rod butt welded to the end of the tang.
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Post by Tom K. (ianflaer) on Jul 20, 2009 1:28:58 GMT
the first generation practical longswords and practical arming swords and the first generation Castiles (I think) have a welded on thread stock. the trick is it was welded on before heat treating. I can only think of maybe one failure of those.
no I think the thread failure we saw was most likely an odd-ball freak occurance maybe from abuse maybe from something funky in the steel but either way I see nothing to worry about here
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Post by Deleted on Jul 20, 2009 3:47:28 GMT
Thanks everyone So much thoughtful and considerate advice! I have a lot to ponder over. Karmas all around....I'm buying, but the bar is closing soon, so I may have to get you next time ;D Mike, Very good advice, thanks. I was slightly leaning toward a two hander just because of this experience - which I fully admit was very minimal. I am sure, with more diligence, that I could learn to be comfortable with the single hander, but I am pretty sure (as mentioned by others) that my wrist and/or elbow will take a beating in the process. Does anyone know if there are there any pics or specs available for the Crusader? Thanks Ric, I may indeed eventually end up with both....there really is no way to tell without holding and playing with 'em....alll Chris that was indeed very helpful! Thank you for writing it all out, I really should have done that for everyone myself....I forgot to put those numbers in my post. Tom, I think you summed it up very nicely, thanks. I do like the Bristol's looks and am not really concerned about one report of tang failure. I just think I like the 303 a little better. I have watched lots of videos too, that's one of the problems....any time I see someone cutting/doing kata/sparring well, I think ... I wanna try that BB, lol, no surprise there . I think the kreigswert is the most lovely sword in the signature line up so far. I just think it might be too heavy for me. I think it might be best for me to start light, and I agree about the Longswords. The VA practical LS is a much nicer looking sword overall (on the page anyway). Sean and Marc, very good points about the katana etc. Another concern is that I may end up bringing over habits that could be bad in that application Re the Bristol: I feel for hairu (and frankly, I was hoping for some more sexy sword photo shoots - just teasing hairu. That was a beautiful sword but Sonny's quick response was very reassuring. I am hoping the break was a freak occurance too. This has been very helpful everyone! Before I asked, I was leaning toward a VA practical 303S or 304S (slightly more toward the 304). I still am, many of you solidified and confirmed my thoughts - thank you again I will just have to pick one and then get the other, and then another and.... Anyone have opinions on sharp vs extrasharp? Thanks, Debbie
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Post by YlliwCir on Jul 20, 2009 4:04:13 GMT
Debbie, my VA practicals came out of the first batch and there was no extra sharp option then. They came wicked sharp anyhow. I think I remember Sonny saying that the sharpening issue on the practicals had been sorted out so no need for the extra sharp option. Still, you might want to ask Paul about it.
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