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Post by Deleted on Jun 16, 2009 15:00:21 GMT
Since, I work at a fed facility also, I can't say much about this @ work. However, I'm on my home puter so I have a bit more freedom of speech here. Also, since I'm only a contracted employee and not a federal employee I'm still allowed to talk politics on my own time. But over at livejournal - I like my SBG membership too much to cause a lot of trouble here.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 16, 2009 15:07:51 GMT
Hey LP, I feel ya...I contracted for 7 years before making that jump...and let me tell you, it is NOT all that they say it is. But I hate politics so that colors my outlook; I can speak on them but I find it distasteful. Politics in general is about misdirection and lies...only those truly 'gifted' in these areas have any real success.
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kurokaze
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Fur Ehre und Pflicht bis Herz und Klinge Bricht
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Post by kurokaze on Jun 16, 2009 15:55:30 GMT
Not to sound too political, but I wonder what they honestly hope to change by banning assisted open knives. All that would accomplish is making sure criminals (who wouldn't follow the law anyway) would be better armed than law abiding citizens who surrendered their assisted open folder. How that would improve our safety is beyond me.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 16, 2009 16:44:56 GMT
Well, that's par for the course...after all, who do the gun laws regulate? Law-abiding citizens, that's who...so the criminal element will always have that firepower advantage; what a great thing government is, yes?
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Post by Deleted on Jun 16, 2009 23:27:58 GMT
A ban on knife types by Customs would be applied at the manufacturer and vendor level. So most directly it hurts knife makers and vendors, those nice law-abiding business types.
A knife is in many states considered a lethal weapon the moment it is used in a fight, so they aren't very practical for self-defense in many areas. However, the utility of an assisted opener as a tool... I have a much higher production level at my jobs when I only need one hand to open the knife and can manipulate the material with the other. it may only save me a couple of seconds but that's a few seconds several hundred times a day. That time adds up. That's why I personally don't understand this move against assisted openers and positive locking mechanisms (which is a safety feature to prevent accidental opening).
I think Customs and Border Protection is trying to position themselves for a grasp at a larger chunk of the federal budget. I they create an artificial need that the agency is unable to fill than they would have to have increased funding to complete their mission.
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kurokaze
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Post by kurokaze on Jun 17, 2009 3:02:53 GMT
I have a much higher production level at my jobs when I only need one hand to open the knife and can manipulate the material with the other. it may only save me a couple of seconds but that's a few seconds several hundred times a day. That time adds up. That's why I personally don't understand this move against assisted openers and positive locking mechanisms (which is a safety feature to prevent accidental opening). I completely agree with this. I have never needed to use my assisted open folder as a weapon (and hopefully won't ever), but I cannot count the number of times I have found it useful at work, like when standing on a ladder and needing to cut something. In this sense it's like trying to pass legislation banning the production and use of hammers, which can also be a frightfully effective weapon.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 17, 2009 8:29:12 GMT
That's why I personally don't understand this move against assisted openers and positive locking mechanisms (which is a safety feature to prevent accidental opening). I completely agree with this. I have never needed to use my assisted open folder as a weapon (and hopefully won't ever), but I cannot count the number of times I have found it useful at work, like when standing on a ladder and needing to cut something. In this sense it's like trying to pass legislation banning the production and use of hammers, which can also be a frightfully effective weapon. Tell me about it, brother I used to have a decent range and some nice accuracy with a 3lb cross peen. (The things bored mechanics will do). We don't even want to get into the damage you can do with a thrown screwdriver or fixed blade carpet knife. As for the positive locking mechanisms since all that requires is any spring or plate putting pressure on the blade while the knife is in the closed position, this is a safety feature. I personally like my fingers, I use them quite often, heck, I'm using them now to type this. Anything that helps keep them from getting sliced up from accidental opening which is a traditional problem with folding knives, is a good thing in my book. Heck I've even gotten stabbed in the ass by one of my old swiss army knives when in came open in my back pocket, a couple of times in my life, it wasn't a pleasant experience. A positive lock does prevent that sort of thing. Though honestly what bothers me the most is that this move by customs is trying to sneak legislation in the "back door" so to speak. It not like this is being brought up in congress for debate, it's something that is just being done nice a quite like, so most folks will be none the wiser. That's the real kicker for me. I don't like back door legislation or regulation. If the powers that be want me to remain a law abiding citizen than they need to inform about changes to the law.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 17, 2009 13:06:10 GMT
I think you hit it on the head in one of your earlier posts- they're going for a slice of the Fed pie money; I can see no earthly reason why folders need regulation, I just don't. If anything, they're safer than their fixed blade counterparts; while I do not carry, I know many who do- and it is a part of their everyday routines to use them at-will. I just don't see the point; you might as well regulate baseball bats, tire irons, crow bars, hammers, screwdrivers, ladders, any object with sharp corners, any object that is hard...I mean, it sounds funny but this whole thing seems farcical to me.
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Post by alvin on Jun 17, 2009 16:43:16 GMT
....what bothers me the most is that this move by customs is trying to sneak legislation in the "back door" so to speak. It not like this is being brought up in congress for debate, it's something that is just being done nice a quite like, so most folks will be none the wiser.... Unfortunately, this has been the regulatory practice of Federal agencies for many, many years and is done in accordance with the laws passed by the Congress after "debate" and being signed into law by various Presidents. Representatives and Senators sometimes do not have the time to even read a multi-billion dollar piece of legislation before voting on it. They are very busy and overworked and are doing their best. I am sure that unintended consequences do take place when new regulations are made or changes made under those laws by Federal agencies to enforce those laws. One protection is the notification period of any proposed changes in regulations. Another is the oversight responsibility of Congress over Federal agencies charged with enforcing laws passed by them.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 17, 2009 18:26:59 GMT
I've never been one to carry anything, not just for everyday use, but in going through what a typical day entails, I can see the need for one.
So, I'm going to order one of the Cold Steel folders, unless you guys can school me on better knives, or maybe more 'cost effective'...I'm gonna order it by Friday so hit me with'm. With a nice belt clip.
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kurokaze
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Post by kurokaze on Jun 17, 2009 21:17:03 GMT
Though honestly what bothers me the most is that this move by customs is trying to sneak legislation in the "back door" so to speak. It not like this is being brought up in congress for debate, it's something that is just being done nice a quite like, so most folks will be none the wiser. That's the real kicker for me. I don't like back door legislation or regulation. If the powers that be want me to remain a law abiding citizen than they need to inform about changes to the law. The conspiracy theorist in me wants to say that the reason they're pushing this in the back door is in the hope that people who carry folders won't know it's illegal, so that they can arrest us crazies all at once and put us somewhere where we can't be dangerous. The (slightly) more rational part thinks that they probably realize there is no way legislation to ban assisted open knives with positive locking mechanisms would ever make it through Congress. There would be too much pressure from groups that support the second amendment right to bear arms for it too ever make it very far down that route. P.S. LPBoyle: +1 karma for accuracy with 3 lb. cross peen. ;D
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kurokaze
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Post by kurokaze on Jun 17, 2009 21:23:56 GMT
I've never been one to carry anything, not just for everyday use, but in going through what a typical day entails, I can see the need for one. So, I'm going to order one of the Cold Steel folders, unless you guys can school me on better knives, or maybe more 'cost effective'...I'm gonna order it by Friday so hit me with'm. With a nice belt clip. I know a police officer in my city who swears up and down by the versatility and strength of Cold Steel's folders, especially the Voyager series. He says he has found many occasions on duty during which it was helpful, such as cutting someone out of a seat belt after a car wreck. Of course, he does get a discount from Cold Steel so price doesn't really figure into his estimation.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 17, 2009 21:53:59 GMT
I've never been one to carry anything, not just for everyday use, but in going through what a typical day entails, I can see the need for one. So, I'm going to order one of the Cold Steel folders, unless you guys can school me on better knives, or maybe more 'cost effective'...I'm gonna order it by Friday so hit me with'm. With a nice belt clip. I swear by CS and a 3" clip point voyager is a knife on my buy list. Spyderco, Benchmade, SOG, and Kershaw also make very good knives. Buck knives have been going down in quality but many people still swear by them, same with Schrade "Old Timer" knives. Here's a link for the Voyager I mentioned at a reasonable price www.knifecenter.com/kc_new/store_detail.html?s=CS29MCThe Spyderco Endura: www.knifecenter.com/kc_new/store_detail.html?s=SP10SBK4 I carried one of these for many years and it served me well until the day it sprouted legs and walked out of my barracks room. Some basics on buying the right knife: www.knifecenter.com/members/buytherightknife.htmlKnife index: www.knifecenter.com/knifecenter/index/foldersm.htmlAssisted Opener Index: www.knifecenter.com/kc_new/store_store.html?ttl=Assisted%20Opening%20Folding%20Knives&srch=wodescriptiondatarq%3Dassisted%26eqWWWCAT_1datarq%3DfolderHope that helps Ebon.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 17, 2009 21:58:27 GMT
....what bothers me the most is that this move by customs is trying to sneak legislation in the "back door" so to speak. It not like this is being brought up in congress for debate, it's something that is just being done nice a quite like, so most folks will be none the wiser.... Unfortunately, this has been the regulatory practice of Federal agencies for many, many years and is done in accordance with the laws passed by the Congress after "debate" and being signed into law by various Presidents. Representatives and Senators sometimes do not have the time to even read a multi-billion dollar piece of legislation before voting on it. They are very busy and overworked and are doing their best. I am sure that unintended consequences do take place when new regulations are made or changes made under those laws by Federal agencies to enforce those laws. One protection is the notification period of any proposed changes in regulations. Another is the oversight responsibility of Congress over Federal agencies charged with enforcing laws passed by them. Yeah, this one is getting the minimum 30 day notification and comment period, time's up June 21st. So I need to get some cash to go on a buying spree. I'm certain this action by CBP is going to hit both congress and the court system with groups like the NRA and Second Amendment Foundation getting involved. This is going to be one ugly legal mess before all is said and done.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 17, 2009 22:02:41 GMT
P.S. LPBoyle: +1 karma for accuracy with 3 lb. cross peen. ;D Thank you, thank you I could nail the center of the red cross (12"x12" target) on a Medic M113A3 personnel carrier from 30 yards. Unfortunately, I now sport a bad rotator cuff in my right shoulder so unlike other forumites I'm out of the throwing game.
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Post by sparky on Jun 17, 2009 23:46:45 GMT
I've never been one to carry anything, not just for everyday use, but in going through what a typical day entails, I can see the need for one. So, I'm going to order one of the Cold Steel folders, unless you guys can school me on better knives, or maybe more 'cost effective'...I'm gonna order it by Friday so hit me with'm. With a nice belt clip. Ebon, I'm a fan of Buck Knives. I traded a ..... um ... switch blade I picked up in Mexico for a used Buck knife back in the 80's. It was a very good trade. I used that knife everyday for work, cutting boxes, stripping wire, sharpening pencils, and yes picking doors. Also it has gone on more camping, fishing, and hunting trips than I can count. I really worked the knife HARD. I just replaced it with a new Buck knife because the locking mechanism got something in it that I can't seem to get out. The knife is still okay, just if you apply to much pressure it will close with out unlocking the blade. But heck I've used this knife for 27 years, and again I got it used! Here's a picture of them if interested-- /index.cgi?action=display&board=general&thread=9252&page=4 I picked up my new one for under $60.00 "bucks" at semprini's sporting goods. Anyway here's a link to my favorite knife-- www.buckknives.com/index.cfm?event=product.detail&productID=3044
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Post by Deleted on Jun 19, 2009 4:18:12 GMT
I thought there were supposed to be no politics on SBG...
In any case, since it's already here... It's a natural function of government to seek any additional source of revenue or control over its citizens that it can get away with. And there is already a case in the SCOTUS on "weapons other than firearms." I think the guy had either nunchuku or a sai, but I don't remember which. If he wins, this law will go away. If he loses, bladed weapons and most bladed tools will go away.
It's something any Americans on this board should be following, since, well, we all like ur swords, right?
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Post by Deleted on Jun 19, 2009 12:48:01 GMT
kurokaze, LP, sparky- thanks for the info, I'm gonna look at the Voyager series by CS, I was torn between the mini Lawman and the Recon I, the latter being way too big at almost 10 inches. I need something that'll fit in my pocket.
Whoa Sparky, that's quite the lineup!
So what does this mean for folder sales if this gets put into effect? I'm guessing the market is for guys like you (and now me) who carry them as tools, not weapons per se.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 19, 2009 21:56:34 GMT
So what does this mean for folder sales if this gets put into effect? I'm guessing the market is for guys like you (and now me) who carry them as tools, not weapons per se. And that my friend is the million dollar question. Nobody knows at this point what custom's action is going to do to folder sales at this point besides take a lot of models off the market. CS Voyager series should be safe but plenty of other knives won't be. Having done the flea market thing for awhile (no I was not a knife vendor I just liked to set up near them, he wants a knife she retaliates by buying my jewelery ) most knife buyers are folks who carry them as tools not weapons, or collectors. personally, I've carried a knife since about the third grade and it has always been more of a tool than anything else. That's most folks with pocket knives.
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