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Post by Deleted on May 29, 2009 6:51:43 GMT
Oh boy... I'm kinda worried about asking this but does -anyone- here know how to unsheathe a katana from a sheath on a back strap (and on your back of course). I've been trying for quite some time to figure it out even tho i don't think its possible with a katana, probably possible with a KO-katana or something like the oniyuri (and a wakazashi and such shorter blades) but i would really like to know if it is indeed possible to do with a katana, so allow me to retort, does anyone here know how to unsheathe a katana from the back ?
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Post by Deleted on May 29, 2009 13:56:22 GMT
You are going to have to have Ape arms to do that with a katana! IMHO it's just not going to work with a regular sized katana. What about putting it back? That would even be worse! I my mind, it's just not practical at all. I don't care what ChosonNinja thinks I did see a video a while back about why this is not a good idea. If I find it I'll post it.
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Post by Deleted on May 29, 2009 14:04:28 GMT
Back strapped swords are a myth. Regardless if you are talking Eastern or Western Sword Arts. Knights never wore back strapped swords in Europe and neither did Samurai.
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Avery
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Post by Avery on May 29, 2009 17:48:29 GMT
. I don't care what ChosonNinja thinks Blasphemy!!! Can't you see the man is a legend in his own mind? Seriously, to address the O.P.'s question, I don't think it can be done(safely) with either a katana or a euro blade of any length. Unless some type of open cradle is used instead of a saya or scabbard, and even then I don't know how well it would work.
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Post by Deleted on May 29, 2009 18:40:12 GMT
Right I'll say this again as nicely as I possibly can. Having had a great deal of experience trying to find a viable draw position with a katana from the back in the interest of continuing the art I was studying I have come to a double fold conclusion.
The first is that it can't be done, reason being our arms don't hinge that way and also the fact that because a katana is so sharp there is an extremely good chance you might scalp yourself in the process. Don't laugh I have seen it done. Even drawing a long blade knife from this position is a nightmare, whether the handle sticks straight up or whether it hangs in a diagonal with the handle sticking up past the shoulder. To do this effectively (relative term) You have to grab the end of the saya with one hand and draw with the other, this gets very ungainly as a katana does not just slide straight out of the sheath. Now there are records of both japanese and medieval weapons being carried on the back but none of those have anything to do with drawing with a back sheath. You would also look damn silly. I have however seen an extremely practiced iaido practitioner draw from the back and also sheath to the back. The way she did this was not a way I am going to talk about because unless you have been doing it since you were 3 and you have 25 years training it is extremely dangerous.
If you are interested in a back sheath or system for the purpose of carrying the sword, the best idea might be a backpack carry that you can easily unsling to gain access to your weapon.
Bottom line, only hollywood ninjas and people with no sense would attempt this method of drawing but it can be effective for carry if access to you sword is not life and death.
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Post by randomnobody on May 29, 2009 19:00:14 GMT
I must be some kind of freak or something.
Just now, after reading this thread, I picked up my ol' PK, held it against my back, diagonally, with the tsuba resting at about my (right) shoulder, and holding the sword in place (I have no straps etc.) with a locked arm, I drew the sword with quite little difficulty, swung it a few times, and returned it to its saya with only slightly more difficulty than drawing.
It wasn't fast, sure, I'd say it took a little over a second, not quite two, but then I haven't done it in a while. The point here is, I did it. It CAN be done.
Oops?
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SlayerofDarkness
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Post by SlayerofDarkness on May 29, 2009 19:23:42 GMT
Nice... could we have a video of that, please? I don't doubt what you say at all, but it would be very helpful to have a visual aid, lol. ;D Thanks! -Slayer
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Post by Deleted on May 29, 2009 19:24:51 GMT
Oops what? If you can do it, you can do it. How tall're you? What's your reach? I could see a tall man or just a man with long arms having less trouble than someone with shorter arms.
I've drawn my Qama with no issues but didn't bother trying to sheathe it like that. That there is no historical basis for it, we get that- thanks bloodwraith, but you know, that wasn't the actual question.
In short, the answer's yes; just ask random.
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Post by randomnobody on May 29, 2009 20:20:19 GMT
I don't have any means of recording video, regrettably, so I'm afraid I can't provide as requested. I'm about 6'2", my arm measures 28" from the webbing of my thumb and forefinger to the center of my shoulder joint (point of rotation) and the PK is just a hair over 28" from tsuba to the very tip of the kissaki. Another interesting point of note is that I did this indoors, with a ten-foot ceiling. I think it's ten...might be nine...haven't a tape measure that long. I tried it a few more times and am actually getting better at it. The tricky part is finding the blasted koiguchi and slipping the kissaki into it...then angling oh-just-so and guiding it in. Bit of wrist-twisting there... I also find that tilting the saya (or just the blade, if you can rig a harness that keeps the saya in place, away from your body tends to reduce the risk of shaving one's own head. (as well as perhaps adjusting the angle just enough to pull off the feat to begin with?) Oh, the PK's sori is somewhere between .5 and .7 inches. I should measure that properly sometime..
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Post by Deleted on May 29, 2009 22:40:53 GMT
Here is a video about the drawing of swords from the back...
And what Choson Ninja thinks on the subject...Note that the method he describes does NOT work because if it´s strapped you can´t pull the saya down like he mentions. If your for some dumb reason holding the sword on your back...then it works just fine.
And FYI, I can draw longswords with up to a 34 inch from my back...but I´m not exactly normal....and I manage this by accentuating my mild hunchbackism to a slightly more aggressive position...I look dumb doing it and it puts me in a bad tactical position afterwards...it´s better to just remove the sword and sheath and if you that desperate for combat time, you can just toss the scabbard as a weapon as you unsheathe as a distractionary tactic.
What I find more amusing about drawing swords is this...
It should be noted that by longsword he doesn´t mean he hand and a half longsword...but swords longer then the gladius. Once a blade gets near 34 inches it gets a bit hard...longer then 34 inches and it gets iffy as to if one should do such or not...but since the main argument is for shielded combat draws, that should be less of an issue.
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Post by randomnobody on May 29, 2009 23:00:44 GMT
That fellow's videos are quite amusing and mostly informative.
Surely I am a freak of nature that science would not approve of.
I should use this on my resumé...
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Post by brotherbanzai on May 29, 2009 23:06:51 GMT
Just went and grabbed my old iaito and tried this. I looped the segeo around the saya to make a strap. I can draw that way with no problem. Nice and smooth and could probably do a cut that way too. It seems all you have to do is let the tsuba sit below your shoulder so a good bit of the end of the saya sticks out below. I found it a lot easier to walk around the house wearing it that way rather than the traditional way as well. Getting it back in the saya was not so easy, but is it's just looped over you back it's easy enough to just slip it off and then re-sheath.
The blade on my iaito is 29 1/2 " long. I'm only 5'9" and my reach measured like randomnobody from webbing to center of shoulder is 24". It seems likely to me that if something could be done, and it wasn't detrimental to do it, it probably was done. At least by some.
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Post by randomnobody on May 29, 2009 23:43:33 GMT
Glad I'm not the only freak around here. Seems you're even a bigger freak than me, being smaller. (Process THAT one. )
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Post by brotherbanzai on May 30, 2009 0:22:51 GMT
He he, maybe we should start wearing special capes or something.
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Post by Deleted on May 30, 2009 5:00:03 GMT
=P i only want to be able to do it with a wooden bladed sword so the danger part is not much of a factor, i wouldnt try it with a real blade (only trying to do it with a wooden sword cuz me and some friends are trying to stage a sword fight at this convention thing someplace and some of the people in the 'play' wear their swords on their backs =/ if all else fails we'll have to go for shorter swords for that part.)
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Post by Deleted on May 30, 2009 7:25:59 GMT
Well ronin, if you just need to ¨draw¨ a bokken for stage combat, then make a breakaway strap using velcro. It´s not good for generally carry(velco strap +sharp sword = bad idea)...but will do the trick for stage combat. Another stage trick we use to use is to use a scabbard with left side removed (assuming right handed draw) so you could slide it to the out and draw. It works as long as the onlooker isn´t too close...or if you have scenery you can use.
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Post by Deleted on May 30, 2009 8:38:32 GMT
Are you with me?
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Post by Deleted on May 31, 2009 18:35:59 GMT
Here is a video about the drawing of swords from the back... Thanks Man that's the video I was referring to in my first post.
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Post by randomnobody on May 31, 2009 18:41:58 GMT
For semprinis and grins last night I threw a wakizashi over my shoulder and whipped it out with zero difficulty. 18" nagasa, granted, but still a viable weapon where swords go. Still can't get the (Hanwei) William Marshall or AT 1315 out that way, though (the former 33.5", latter 31.5"). Nor can I see any reason for wearing either in such a manner...but for the sake of the question asked.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 1, 2009 0:34:25 GMT
Pull down on the saya and pull out on the sword.
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