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Post by Deleted on May 10, 2009 0:07:27 GMT
i dont know what the problem is but maybe some of you only have one eye. i did not ever mention that Colin Hyakutake-Watkin did not know what he was doing when holding a two handed bladed weapon i was merely saying someone anyone who doesnt know how to cut with a katana that they should stab or thrust rather than slash. and we all know that the katana would have been the last resort weapon on the battlefield beacuse in battle you never want to have to get close to your opponent. i think you individuals have selective reading and you read what you want to read my posts have been somewhat long so maybe i should shorten them. and sorry "marc ridgeway" those were not your words but you posted them so thats why i referred to the post as what "marc ridgeway" said. and once again your speaking in from an open spaces perspective. probably never in your lifetime will you have to whip a sword out on someone in a wal-mart parking lot. all sword play well deadly sword play would likely take place in a confined space such as a house so what i was trying to reason was that maybe someone would limit themselves in a practical since in todays world by having a larger bladed katana as a self defence weapon in a life threatining situation inside their home its just a scenario that helped to convey my point a 30" blade would not work in a home in a self defence situation. those idiots on the news are one thing im talking about a situation in which you have to defend your life with a katana.
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Post by Deleted on May 10, 2009 0:25:04 GMT
well reisz as far as you judging my statements i am not moved maybe you should read some of the things they wrote. after all this is the internet so as far as people realting their personal experiences... in my opinion are absolutely untrue people lie its the way of the world especially on the internet. so with that out of the way i know that the longer tsuka for a ninjutsu katana would be used for hand to hand purposes such as manipulating joints or breaking bones maybe. so for the ninjutsu practicioners hazamayakiba sells a pretty cool ninjutsu katana on ebay with a reinforced tsuka for extra strength spefically for ninjutsu practiconers.
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Marc Ridgeway
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Post by Marc Ridgeway on May 10, 2009 1:11:05 GMT
i dont know what the problem is but maybe some of you only have one eye. i did not ever mention that Colin Hyakutake-Watkin did not know what he was doing when holding a two handed bladed weapon i was merely saying someone anyone who doesnt know how to cut with a katana that they should stab or thrust rather than slash. and we all know that the katana would have been the last resort weapon on the battlefield beacuse in battle you never want to have to get close to your opponent. i think you individuals have selective reading and you read what you want to read my posts have been somewhat long so maybe i should shorten them. and sorry "marc ridgeway" those were not your words but you posted them so thats why i referred to the post as what "marc ridgeway" said. and once again your speaking in from an open spaces perspective. probably never in your lifetime will you have to whip a sword out on someone in a wal-mart parking lot. all sword play well deadly sword play would likely take place in a confined space such as a house so what i was trying to reason was that maybe someone would limit themselves in a practical since in todays world by having a larger bladed katana as a self defence weapon in a life threatining situation inside their home its just a scenario that helped to convey my point a 30" blade would not work in a home in a self defence situation. those idiots on the news are one thing im talking about a situation in which you have to defend your life with a katana. The quotes were specifically about indoor situations. Especially the one that said the sword could be used indoors... did you catch that one? I don't know that you need to shorten your post... but maybe punctuation would help a tad.
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Post by Deleted on May 10, 2009 2:19:01 GMT
like i said once before wielding a larger katana indoors would yield more complications than a shorter one unless you would use it strictly as a thrusting weapon in such a situation with accuracy then that would be effective but if your attacker has closed the distance eliminating the possibility of a thrust then what? you would have a giant sword in your hand unable to really do anything. in open spaces a larger katana excels but in enclosed spaces its not so great. and are these techniques specifically for indoors? but its not always size but how you use what you have a 6" knife can defeat a katana
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Marc Ridgeway
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Post by Marc Ridgeway on May 10, 2009 3:28:46 GMT
HAhahahaaa oh man,.... too funny. I give up .
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slav
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Post by slav on May 10, 2009 4:21:38 GMT
like i said once before wielding a larger katana indoors would yield more complications than a shorter one unless you would use it strictly as a thrusting weapon in such a situation with accuracy then that would be effective but if your attacker has closed the distance eliminating the possibility of a thrust then what? you would have a giant sword in your hand unable to really do anything. in open spaces a larger katana excels but in enclosed spaces its not so great. and are these techniques specifically for indoors? but its not always size but how you use what you have a 6" knife can defeat a katana I think I understand what you are saying... and my response to it would be that a major advantage of using a katana (or any long weapon) in any environment is that it keeps your opponent at a distance. Would a katana be more difficult to use against an opponent with a much smaller blade at hand-shaking distance? Maybe...But the whole point of a longer weapon is to keep them away or kill them before they close. Ceiling height and/or floor space may force one to alter their technique, but--all other things being equal--it does not fundamentally change or compromise this basic advantage, IMO.
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Post by Deleted on May 10, 2009 6:40:29 GMT
Me too. It's like talking to a door.
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Post by Reisz on May 10, 2009 7:32:04 GMT
No doors allow you in, this is like the wall of a silo or something.
Slavia I think you have just stated in very plain words exactly how most of us feel about this, I agree with your statement in full.
and I leave it at that.
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Post by Deleted on May 10, 2009 13:22:27 GMT
when fighting with a longer sword in enclosed spaces the longer it gets it loses combat effectiveness there simple. i mean your already hindered with the fact its a two handed weapon. i would honestly prefer a frying pan and a knife than a 30" blade katana in an enclosed cqc situation. a japanese instrucor even demonstrated how simple farming tools and japanese household items of the age of samurai were superior combatively to a katana in even open spaces. and ya know musashi was a genius to wield the long sword and short sword the way he did increasing his effectiveness in battle two weapons always better than 1
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Post by randomnobody on May 10, 2009 15:49:10 GMT
Night, I'm sorry, but you have some very, very mistaken impressions on weapons and fighting techniques.
Besides, as I said before, I have knives. Why I'd use a sword indoors is beyond me when I have knives. But since you posted the (stupid) question I answered with my own experiences and others did the same. However, this was not good enough for you and you continue to stubbornly insist on your mistaken beliefs.
I'm going to say this thread is done with and would very much like to see it locked soon, and leave it at that.
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Post by sparky on May 10, 2009 16:37:56 GMT
Night, I'm sorry, but you have some very, very mistaken impressions on weapons and fighting techniques. Besides, as I said before, I have knives. Why I'd use a sword indoors is beyond me when I have knives. But since you posted the (stupid) question I answered with my own experiences and others did the same. However, this was not good enough for you and you continue to stubbornly insist on your mistaken beliefs. I'm going to say this thread is done with and would very much like to see it locked soon, and leave it at that.
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Post by Deleted on May 10, 2009 18:14:37 GMT
im not gonna respond to personal attacks. go back to the question that started this it was just a scenario in which someone has a 30" blade katana ready to wield against an attacker in one's home i was merely saying it would be a hindrence to operate such a big blade in what could be a confined space thats it. and "randomnobody" we had a discussion about battle tactics before in a different post and i thought i drove my point home back then.... i dunnowhy this misconception that the katana is one of the best weapons on a samurai battlefield or any battlefield actually the samurai would probably go through at least 3 other weapons before unsheathing a katana...but the weapon itself yes it is superior to probably most bladed weapons. the warriors of sparta outnumbered by an outrageous ratio defeated hundreds of thousands of persians using what...2 weapons well 3 but mainly a simple shield and spear (2 weapons) just because a weapon is complex doesnt make it better on the battlefield any warrior any real warrior walking this earth will tell you the simplest weapons are the best at least before guns came along...
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Post by randomnobody on May 10, 2009 18:25:31 GMT
Dude, really, just stop talking.
It would NOT be such a hinderance and I don't know what you live in but my home is no "confined space" except in the hallways in which case there are techniques which would allow me to use A SPEAR IN MY HALLWAY if I please.
Nobody has ever implied the katana is the greatest weapon ever, well, except you, but that doesn't really count since you'll argue that you did no such thing...
The Spartans used their spear in extremely tight formation, in case you forgot, so not much maneuvering to be done there, either. When they got close enough they brought out very short swords because they were still in very tight formation for the most part. Shoulder-to-shoulder is a bad place to be swinging a sword around.
A room measuring 8'x8'x10' is not so bad, even with furniture.
In my bedroom I have a space about 6'x6' and a ten-foot ceiling with a ceiling fan that hangs nearly two feet from there, giving me a vertical clearance of about eight feet. I am just over six feet tall and can wield a standard-length (28") katana with room to spare. My AT 1315 and Hanwei William Marshall swords have blades in excess of 33" and they handle even better in my little space.
Most of us here would have loved to stay on the original subject, which as we'd interpreted it was more akin to "what size and proportion sword are you most comfortable with" but YOU kept branching off to other subjects that we would then try to educate you on. It seems you're not doing very well.
You appear to be of the mind that you have a great amount of knowledge in the subject and you very well may but I fear your logic and reasoning are blind. Your mind is closed and you are all too happy this way. I pity you, really.
Thus, I now leave this thread. Again. I encourage others to join me.
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Post by Deleted on May 10, 2009 18:48:48 GMT
i dont think your giving the swordsmiths in japan enough credit. which is why after the heian period they figured out that the straight sword business was not working to well at least for the type of warfare they fought which is why they started forging curved swords. the chinese on the other hand who are flooding the market with these supposed authentic japanese swords have been forging straight swords for centuries I don't think you are giving the Chinese enough credit... Where do you think the the roots of Japanese chokuto come from? They were influenced by Chinese & Korean weapons of the time. unless you have 14ft. cielings this would be nearly impossible to defend your own home with your katana would it not? Difficult, not impossible... But then again, any situation were you are fighting for your life is going to be difficult. There are techniques designed to be used in close quarters, and anyone who has had extensive training with the long sword can tell you that there are numerous ways to wield it effectively in close quarters if you needed to. It is not a desirable situation because you lose some of your advantage of "height", but lowering your posture and making adjustments to the swords angle of attack when swung can be effective. I am 6' 3" tall, and have regular 9' ceilings. And i can swing my sword overhead with nearly as much power as if i was standing outside doing it. It isn't usually pretty, but it will be fairly effective. im pretty sure you "warriors" have been in many life and death situations that cause for quick and agile thinking under heart pounding pressure in which you are able to wield a large bladed weapon in close quarters in an enclosed space with speed and accuracy. Have you...? Where exactly do you get off assuming to know the stresses of life or death combat, and/or discredit anyone here as to their knowledge of those situations... Judging from some of the information you have volunteered i have doubts whether you know what your talking about... (on a side note cutting up those bottles yea its fun but....isnt that for a samurai warrior each time a katana is unsheathed and doesnt taste blood its a dishonor to the blade? unless its a masamune i guess?) Well, (if you pick up a history book), you will find that before the feudal system was abolished that humans were used to test a swords cutting prowess. During that time, to cut straw or bamboo (the "human" equivalents we use today) was considered extremely disgraceful. However, once the system was abolished cutting straw & bamboo was adopted as a standard (and readily available) form of human simulate. So, the answer to your question would be "yes, a long time ago", but not today.... how many of us have actually studied the human body in such a way to know where the muscles and tendons and arteries are for us to cut The JSA are packed full of techniques and training designed specifically for the purpose of knowing where to attack your opponents body. JSA is not centered around (as you put it) "cutting the bastard in half". Although some forms of it like kabutowari sort of are,... no... The JSA can be likened to "surgery" with a 3 foot scalpel. shooting someone is one thing but a blade like a katana can do things to a human's body that a gun dreams of doing. You have obviously NEVER seen a person get shot before... I have had the unfortunate experience of having to pick pieces of my friends skull off of my sweatshirt. I have also seen another friend get his legs cut off by a train (close enough to a swords effect),... neither experience was "more or less desirable than the other". yes a "real" katana has no problem chewing its way through flesh and bone in one stroke. In the hands of an experienced user, and depending on the circumstances - yes. But it important to remember, that the katana doesn't do anything. The person who is wielding does. If you haven't a clue about cutting, or have next to no experience with an edged weapon then you aren't going to be cutting much of anything... well "pika007" i have not been dismissive nor sarcastic to anyone so we can drop that there. You haven't....? im pretty sure you "warriors" have been in many life and death situations that cause for quick and agile thinking under heart pounding pressure Seems pretty dismissive and sarcastic to me.... im sure someone of your prowess on the battle field has witness the scatterd remains of charred human flesh and the blood curdling screams individuals let out as they are writhing in pain and dying. So does this... when you were a seventh grader you knew how to kill a man right? they compared the great pika007 to musashi right? And another one... ya know musashi was a genius to wield the long sword and short sword the way he did increasing his effectiveness in battle two weapons always better than 1 Musashi (as far as i know) was reported to have only ever used 2 swords when fighting multiple opponents. Even his own teachings state, that in combat against a single opponent it is better to use only 1 sword. im not gonna respond to personal attacks. And i would ask you to cease with the sarcastic remarks and insults. If you feel personally attacked, its because people are responding aggressively to your discrediting their every word. Some of these folks (like Marc Ridgeway) have been studying the JSA and Japanese history for many years. This is not the first discussion of this nature... Please try to be a little more polite and open minded to what others contribute to the conversation, so that we can all learn from each other and have a good time doing so... Thanks, Jim G.
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Post by Deleted on May 10, 2009 19:16:36 GMT
after i posted you posted 11minutes later obviously you are somewhat interested in what is being discussed "randomnbody" but i did mention your name so you should respond.now... and when did i ever imply the katana was the greatest weapon ever in my postsim glad this websites has the quote option so please quote me. the point i was trying to convey was the use of two simple weapons the spartans were using to win in battle. of course samurai and spartan battle tactics differ. the samurai have never fought another warrior culture but their own till ww2 the spartans on the other hand proved that their weaponry was extremely effective in battle against foreign invaders as simple as it was.and as far as the dimensions of your cieling are quite irrelevant.why are we so narcissistic?i could careless how high or low your cielings mesure but i get your point it would be no problem for you specifically to wield a larger katana in your home and you backed it up with supposed truthful evidence but is that the same for all others? i think not.quit personalizing and internalizing things thats what weak individuals do. and as far as you pitying me...why would you that? thats odd you dont even know me nor do you know most of the individuals on this website were distant strangers who will never meet and the only social contact most of us wil have is through the internet on this website so dont waste your time pitying me maybe the man in the mirror deserves a little.
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Post by Deleted on May 10, 2009 19:50:25 GMT
well finally a sound individual james gall right thank you before i get into it what would be your ideal dimensions for a japanese katana? if you dont mind i would like adress some of the comments you have made pertaining to me. unless one has been trained to handle life and death situations one would clearly exhibit some stress under such a situation and would be less effective in battle a farmer could hold a gun a farmer can aim a gun a farmer can shoot a gun but what does the farmer do when someone is shooting at him? and as i said before my personal experiences are irrelevant i can lie on this post all i want like people usually do and you wouldn' know if it was true or not so when people post their personal experiences on the internet to me they are completely irrelevant. of course no longer today human bodies are used to test katanas but it doesnt change the fact that they were used. surgical precision is ok under zero pressure but when fighting someone who has a sword your gonna be less concerned with surgical precision and more worried saving your own life. even under zero pressure when your cutting bottles or mats the cuts will not be 100% how or where you want them to be all the time just like firing a gun. and yes i agree a sword and gun can do very similar things to human flesh hope the guy with no legs is holding up fine...anyway... and i agree the sword is only as good as its user but better swords simply perform better there is no disputing that. and people have to realize the pricy japanese work has largely to do with the labor required to traditionally construct one completely. koshirae and all. and i can admit when im wrong so yes a little sarcastic and dismissive yes but im not oprah and i absoloutely do not care what goes on in someones life who i dont know. come to me with facts and a sound reason and sound opinion like you have james gall and i am open minded all day and more. even if i am a little sarcastic no one should get defensive or aggresive this is the internet gentleman just enjoy your digital selves. and as far as musashi is concerned i would like to know where you have gotten this is information is it anywhere i can read?
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Post by Deleted on May 10, 2009 20:00:58 GMT
Okay night...so you spent 5 pages basically telling people they are wrong in their preference in the size of their katana and now your saying James experience doesn´t count because it´s just his experience?!? So then by conclusion what we to make with the 5 pages you wrote? Useless too right? So why did you even bother wasting your time and our with it? By what you just said, it´s all worthless and yet you spent quite a bit of effort to try and convince total strangers who will never have social contact with you?
You want to be vindicated. You want the community to accept you. Otherwise why bother...but this community will NOT accept this temper tantrum you are having right now. Stop and think...if one person disagree with you...well maybe it´s just a matter of opinion or PoV...but when EVERYONE is disagreeing with you, then maybe...just MAYBE it´s you. I suggest you stop, read what is already written and THINK before you post next...otherwise don´t blame us for ostracizing you. It has happened to others...some grew out of it and learned what it means to be in a community...others left. The choice to leave or stay is yours...the choice of us accepting you or not is ours. Choose your actions carefully if your serious about becoming a part of this community.
BTW I like 28-30 inch blade 10-12 inch tsuka and sori as low as it goes.
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Marc Ridgeway
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Post by Marc Ridgeway on May 10, 2009 20:08:01 GMT
Gorin No Sho
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Post by Deleted on May 10, 2009 20:11:04 GMT
On Topic: I personally prefer 28" blade, 11" tsuka, 3/4 - 1" sori. As for the Musashi reference: You can find information about this in ' The Water Book' of ' Go Rin No Sho (the book of five rings), in direct reference to strategy when dealing with many enemies. EDIT: Damn, Marc beat me to it!
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Post by Deleted on May 10, 2009 20:52:40 GMT
thank you i actually ordered the book a few days ago on amazon.com along with art of war by suntzu both in just their origional context translated to english. and i think if we are going to be unbias here i think that some of the things that others said as in regards to me should be read as well. so i believe ill take a breather from posting for a while and just observe and just give little bits of info when i can. and i agree with "cold napalm" although i dont belive i have been telling everyone their wrong. but i guess i should take a step back and observe how individuals on this website socialize and try to assimilate myself because their are people on this website i can learn from and anything i didnt know yesterday that i know today makes life that much more worth it. humility is always good.
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