Antioch type XII by Christian Fletcher/Angus Trim
Nov 30, 2009 4:00:22 GMT
Post by Tom K. (ianflaer) on Nov 30, 2009 4:00:22 GMT
Review of the Christian Fletcher / Angus Trim Antioch Crusader Sword
by Tom K of Seaside, OR
Jun 17th 2009 I got a hot tip from someone I know that basically said: “there’s a new Atrim type XII design that might just be the BEST performing type XII ever built bar none! It is far better than the Albion Knight and a little bit better than your current favorite MHAT XII.”
DONE! I had to have one! I love type XII swords and I respected the source of this info as being accurate and reliable. I only had to ask a few questions and I was ready to put my money down for a Christian Fletcher / Angus Trim Antioch type XII even before I have seen a picture of it. Almost two weeks later (June 30th) I found myself on land, grabbed a WIFI connection and sent Mr. Fletcher my $100 scheduling deposit. I was told at that time by Mr. Fletcher that I was looking at a delivery date of approximately March 2010. I wasn’t too fond of the Antioch’s scabbard and since the scabbard costs as much as the sword and the sword carries the hefty price tag of $795.00 I decided all I really needed was the sword after all.
Over the following months I spoke to Mr. Fletcher quite a few times through email. He kept me well appraised of developments and answered all my questions and helped me decide how I wanted my Antioch to look. Customizations were not a problem for him to do at all so if you are interested in a Prestige line sword don’t think you have to take it like you see it in the pictures Mr. Fletcher has on his web site.
Historical Overview:
The Type XII sword is probably the most recognizable knightly sword from history. It is a classic single handed sword and usually the first design people think of when they try to imagine the kind of arming sword a knight would pull from the scabbard at his side. Oakeshott Typology states that the type XII should have a broad, flat, evenly tapering blade generally with a good sharp point. The fuller (of which there can be as many as three) should be well defined, begin under the cross guard, and extend two-thirds to three-quarters the length of the blade. The blade should have a lenticular cross section and be from 30 to 32 inches long. The pommel and guard can be of a wide variety of styles. The Type XII was primarily a cutting sword but was capable of more thrusting power than older sword types. It was designed to deal with the mail armor commonly found on the battle field in the mid 13th to mid 14th centuries. Therefore a type XII should be a powerful but quick sword designed to deliver powerful cuts but still having the control and acute point to deliver good thrusts on occasion. I find it to be a very fun sword type and one that evokes all sorts of fantasies of knightly daring-do. A classic knightly weapon in deed.
Initial Impressions:
I love the big gun cases Mr. Fletcher ships his swords in. My Fedex driver wasn't too happy though: "I don't like having guns on my truck" as he told my wife.
The Antioch is a little different from the classic type XII in that it appears that someone took a type XII and stretched it so it is broader from edge to edge and a little thinner from side to side. The cross section of the blade is lenticular but interrupted by a flat center which makes it almost look like a flattened hex with convex bevels. If you are familiar with Hanwei’s “Elite” line of competition geometry katana then this is the knightly version of an “Elite” geometry. This was how the sword immediately struck me the moment I first held it. So while the Antioch stirs the imagination of the days of yore, it is quite obviously a modern interpretation of those swords that has been scientifically “tuned up” for higher performance. If you are a hard-core traditionalist this might bother you a bit, but if you are a die-hard cutter, martial artist, or simply looking for the best moving, best feeling, best cutting sword in town then you should be very happy with the Antioch. In dry handling this sword moves from guard to guard with an ease that I have never felt in a sword of this weight and balance point. It seems to defy gravity the way it floats in the hand. It is extremely easy to get this sword moving and up to cutting speed, but the power behind that motion is undeniable. In the end what we have here is a sword that is extremely powerful in the cut yet also very fast. The ONLY thing about the handling of the sword I didn’t like immediately was the grip. For some reason Mr. Fletcher decided to forgo the standard cord and leather style grip we are accustomed to and honestly I was a bit worried about it from the beginning because it looked smooth and shiny and slippery. Well it’s smooth and it’s shiny, but it isn’t slippery. It feels smooth which makes me think it should be slippery but it doesn’t slip in the grip. This can be a bit of a freak-out and I’m still not over it completely. Some people might prefer to sacrifice the pretty tooled leather grip for a simpler cord wrapped leather one which I’m sure Mr. Fletcher would do upon request.
Vital Statistics:
Overall length: 36.75 inches
Blade length: 30.25 inches
Fuller length: 18.25 inches
Blade width at cross: 2 3/8 inches
Width of cross guard: 7 inches
Grip length: 4 3/8 inches
Center of Percussion: ~20 inches (it seems to be several inches long too)
Point of Balance: 4.75 inches
Weight: 2 pounds 6.5 ounces
In order to understand the magical way this sword moves I took very careful measurements of the blade thickness in order to try to understand its mass distribution. I took measurements every 3 inches starting at the cross.
Starting from the cross the blade thickness of the Antioch every 3 inches is:
.225 / .165 / .158 / .150 / .144 / .130 / .128 / .125 / .115 / .110 / .065 (.25” behind the point)
By comparison:
MHAT XII thickness every 3” is:
.240 / .195 / .187 / .180 / .165 / .152 / .139 / .120 / .108 / .097 / .079 (.5” behind point)
Hanwei/Tinker EMSHS:
.235 / .230 / .203 / .181 / .161 / .124 / .115 / .092 / .105 / .090 / .070 (.25” behind point)
First generation AT303:
.255 / .235 / .232 / .230 / .229 / .215 / .203 / .176 / .164 / .159 / .123 / .095 (5/8” behind point)
The Blade:
the blade has a very even satiny finish of about 400-600-ish grit that is very clean with only the most subtle flaws/machine marks. I have to admit the finish on this blade is not as good as the Albion I once owned but you have to be picking nits to be able to say that for sure. The sharpness that it came with was a little less than I like and there was a very slight secondary bevel which is common on ATrim swords. I was able to smooth out the secondary and clean off the slight burr on the edges with just a few strokes of 600 grit sand paper. Literally it took me about half an hour to smooth and de-burr 100% of both edges. The edges still are not really sharp but they are sharp enough they will just barely cut paper. I have had good luck with this level of sharpness on my MHAT so I’m going to give it a run on the Antioch and see how I like it. The fuller is well finished and nice and broad which I like. There is not even a hint of waiver or misalignment in the fuller which is what I expect from a sword of this level.
Handle/grip:
the leather grip appears to have been pressed and glued in place near as I can tell. There is a very visible seam along each edge of the grip which I find to be the most unattractive thing about this sword.
The rest of the grip shows a deep red color with black undertones and textured risers that I just love the look and feel of.
I had asked Mr. Fletcher to place the center riser so it would fall between my middle and ring fingers, but I did not give him any measurements to work with. All the same he NAILED it.
As I mentioned before the grip is a real tactile freak-out because my mind keeps saying “IT’S GONNA SLIP!!!” but then it doesn’t. My jury is still out on whether I like this grip or not, but I can’t argue with “it works”
Cross guard:
The humble type 2 with octagonal cross-section cross guard has never looked so nice on a sword I think. It is short enough to not get in the way or bind on the wrist (unless you’re doing something wrong) yet wide enough to feel like it would be handy at catching an enemy’s blade or delivering a nasty Murder-strike. It is dark and looks as though it may have been lightly blued. Very attractive, classic style, and works perfectly with the sword. This is the first thing I was planning to change at first but now I’m glad I didn’t this guard has really grown on me.
the blade is fit very snugly into a nice clean recess in the guard. this is quality work:
Pommel:
The pommel is a simple type J with clean lines and a slightly dark grey finish to match the cross guard. I had Mr. Fletcher etch a cross potent on each pommel face since I thought they looked like a large, plain, empty space and I felt that would support the theme on the rest of the sword. Well one of them didn’t turn out so well while one is very nice.
In the end this doesn’t bother me as I see this as character and gives it a cool feel. Ok maybe I’m being overly forgiving on this one but that’s just the way I feel about it. If it ever starts to really bother me I’ll find something to cover it with or I will just polish it off. The peen on the back of the pommel is very clean.
I have always preferred peened construction and this one is certainly done well. How refreshing.
Handling and Cutting:
A little while ago when I did the review of my custom mounted Hanwei/Tinker EMSHS I raved about how quick and light that sword was and how easily it moved yet how hard it hits. Well the Antioch is the same story only better. These two swords are very interesting to compare. They both weigh the same, they are the same length, and have the same point of balance. So they should handle exactly the same common logic would say. WRONG! While the EMSHS I put together turned out to be a wonderful sword the Antioch beats it in pretty much every category. One night I spent about three hours just dry handling these two swords together so I could feel all the subtle differences. The Antioch is just slightly faster to change direction and move from guard to guard. There’s an entirely different feel between two. the EMSHS feels solid and seems to have parked its weight firmly in my hand making it easy to move around that weight while the Antioch seems to have its weight spread out more but when it moves it floats and changing direction is close to effortless. It feels like all you have to do is give the sword a feel for which way you want it to go and it follows you of its own will. It’s almost like having a really perceptive dance partner that follows your lead flawlessly. The EMSHS on the other hand feels like a lighter sword that just sits there letting you do what you want instead of being a heavier sword that actively helps you get where you want to go like the Antioch. I know it’s a strange concept to describe a sword as ACTIVELY helping and following your lead but that’s the best way I can describe the effortless way this sword turns and moves with you. Mr. Trim is some sort of genius, that’s for sure. “Lively” has never been better used to describe a sword.
Not only does this sword move well but the harmonics are superb. Listen closely to the video and you will hear the sword softly ringing after each cut. That ring continues for a long time. I have plucked the edge with a fingernail before only to hear that soft ringing go on for close to two minutes. The vibrations of striking targets is almost imperceptible to the hand holding the sword.
In the cutting video below I would like to state that the sword was not being used to potential because I was feeling freaked out about the smooth grip and not cutting the way I should in most cases. Still it’s all I had time to do so this will have to stand for now as the review cutting video. I will be cutting with the Antioch on the 4th with the SwordNArmory Cutting Crew so keep your eyes open and you will see more, and hopefully better cutting soon. The last thing I want to point out about this video is that it was raining when I was cutting the bottles and the sword still didn’t slip of really act like it was going to. I take this to mean that my fear of it slipping is just paranoia and my being freaked out by a weird grip surface. So don’t blame the sword, it’s my fault.
Conclusions:
Pros:
Beautiful – this sword is very attractive with good finish, and custom options. This is one of the perks you get with higher priced swords.
Performance – heads and shoulders above production swords of similar weight and POB. This sword moves better, cuts better, and hits harder than other swords.
Harmonic balance – this sword is really smooth. It has a nice soft ring to it and even hard hits on solid targets doesn’t transfer the vibration to your hand.
Custom options – Mr. Fletcher is willing to do many alterations some of them for no charge so you can get the sword to look and handle the way you want.
Christian Fletcher – Mr. Fletcher is a great guy to work with, he listens to what you want, tells you what can be done and for how much. Everything is up-front and in the open, no surprises. He also delivered almost four months early.
Cons:
Price – first and foremost, she ain’t a cheap date, so the real question is do you get a good deal for your money? I think so. Not much of a con here except you have to be able to get the scratch together in the first place and there isn’t a lower priced option like an ATrim Maker’s Mark version.
The Grip still freaks me out and I think many others will have the same reaction but still it is built well and if Ric Willy can cut with oil all over his hand then I think I can manage a smooth leather grip.
The seam down the side of the grip still kinda bugs me a little. It’s not a big deal and I hardly ever even have the ability to see it, but I know it is there. If I were to do it all over I’d probably just go with a plain-old leather and cord wrapped grip.
Wait time – even though this one came much earlier than quoted most of folks in the sub $300 market are unaccustomed to and unhappy with waiting. So if you think you want to buy a sword from Mr. Fletcher just remember it is either grab what he puts up when he puts it up if you are lucky enough to see what you want when he has it up or commission what you want and wait.
THE BOTTOM LINE:
IS the Antioch the best performing type XII ever? I don’t know; I’m not even sure it is the best performing type XII I own. I think if I had gone with the plain-Jane leather and cord style grip it would be, but because of the grip I have yet to realize the full potential of this sword. I think it is very likely I will end up loving it the best of all my XII’s but for right now she’s still on probation.
In the end it comes down to the fact that I consider this to be a very expensive sword and it should perform as befits that price tag. Do I recommend it? YES but I would advise one to consider a different than standard grip unless the sword’s primary function is as a display piece or unless the buyer is very confident they can work through the weirdness of the grip.
by Tom K of Seaside, OR
Jun 17th 2009 I got a hot tip from someone I know that basically said: “there’s a new Atrim type XII design that might just be the BEST performing type XII ever built bar none! It is far better than the Albion Knight and a little bit better than your current favorite MHAT XII.”
DONE! I had to have one! I love type XII swords and I respected the source of this info as being accurate and reliable. I only had to ask a few questions and I was ready to put my money down for a Christian Fletcher / Angus Trim Antioch type XII even before I have seen a picture of it. Almost two weeks later (June 30th) I found myself on land, grabbed a WIFI connection and sent Mr. Fletcher my $100 scheduling deposit. I was told at that time by Mr. Fletcher that I was looking at a delivery date of approximately March 2010. I wasn’t too fond of the Antioch’s scabbard and since the scabbard costs as much as the sword and the sword carries the hefty price tag of $795.00 I decided all I really needed was the sword after all.
Over the following months I spoke to Mr. Fletcher quite a few times through email. He kept me well appraised of developments and answered all my questions and helped me decide how I wanted my Antioch to look. Customizations were not a problem for him to do at all so if you are interested in a Prestige line sword don’t think you have to take it like you see it in the pictures Mr. Fletcher has on his web site.
Historical Overview:
The Type XII sword is probably the most recognizable knightly sword from history. It is a classic single handed sword and usually the first design people think of when they try to imagine the kind of arming sword a knight would pull from the scabbard at his side. Oakeshott Typology states that the type XII should have a broad, flat, evenly tapering blade generally with a good sharp point. The fuller (of which there can be as many as three) should be well defined, begin under the cross guard, and extend two-thirds to three-quarters the length of the blade. The blade should have a lenticular cross section and be from 30 to 32 inches long. The pommel and guard can be of a wide variety of styles. The Type XII was primarily a cutting sword but was capable of more thrusting power than older sword types. It was designed to deal with the mail armor commonly found on the battle field in the mid 13th to mid 14th centuries. Therefore a type XII should be a powerful but quick sword designed to deliver powerful cuts but still having the control and acute point to deliver good thrusts on occasion. I find it to be a very fun sword type and one that evokes all sorts of fantasies of knightly daring-do. A classic knightly weapon in deed.
Initial Impressions:
I love the big gun cases Mr. Fletcher ships his swords in. My Fedex driver wasn't too happy though: "I don't like having guns on my truck" as he told my wife.
The Antioch is a little different from the classic type XII in that it appears that someone took a type XII and stretched it so it is broader from edge to edge and a little thinner from side to side. The cross section of the blade is lenticular but interrupted by a flat center which makes it almost look like a flattened hex with convex bevels. If you are familiar with Hanwei’s “Elite” line of competition geometry katana then this is the knightly version of an “Elite” geometry. This was how the sword immediately struck me the moment I first held it. So while the Antioch stirs the imagination of the days of yore, it is quite obviously a modern interpretation of those swords that has been scientifically “tuned up” for higher performance. If you are a hard-core traditionalist this might bother you a bit, but if you are a die-hard cutter, martial artist, or simply looking for the best moving, best feeling, best cutting sword in town then you should be very happy with the Antioch. In dry handling this sword moves from guard to guard with an ease that I have never felt in a sword of this weight and balance point. It seems to defy gravity the way it floats in the hand. It is extremely easy to get this sword moving and up to cutting speed, but the power behind that motion is undeniable. In the end what we have here is a sword that is extremely powerful in the cut yet also very fast. The ONLY thing about the handling of the sword I didn’t like immediately was the grip. For some reason Mr. Fletcher decided to forgo the standard cord and leather style grip we are accustomed to and honestly I was a bit worried about it from the beginning because it looked smooth and shiny and slippery. Well it’s smooth and it’s shiny, but it isn’t slippery. It feels smooth which makes me think it should be slippery but it doesn’t slip in the grip. This can be a bit of a freak-out and I’m still not over it completely. Some people might prefer to sacrifice the pretty tooled leather grip for a simpler cord wrapped leather one which I’m sure Mr. Fletcher would do upon request.
Vital Statistics:
Overall length: 36.75 inches
Blade length: 30.25 inches
Fuller length: 18.25 inches
Blade width at cross: 2 3/8 inches
Width of cross guard: 7 inches
Grip length: 4 3/8 inches
Center of Percussion: ~20 inches (it seems to be several inches long too)
Point of Balance: 4.75 inches
Weight: 2 pounds 6.5 ounces
In order to understand the magical way this sword moves I took very careful measurements of the blade thickness in order to try to understand its mass distribution. I took measurements every 3 inches starting at the cross.
Starting from the cross the blade thickness of the Antioch every 3 inches is:
.225 / .165 / .158 / .150 / .144 / .130 / .128 / .125 / .115 / .110 / .065 (.25” behind the point)
By comparison:
MHAT XII thickness every 3” is:
.240 / .195 / .187 / .180 / .165 / .152 / .139 / .120 / .108 / .097 / .079 (.5” behind point)
Hanwei/Tinker EMSHS:
.235 / .230 / .203 / .181 / .161 / .124 / .115 / .092 / .105 / .090 / .070 (.25” behind point)
First generation AT303:
.255 / .235 / .232 / .230 / .229 / .215 / .203 / .176 / .164 / .159 / .123 / .095 (5/8” behind point)
The Blade:
the blade has a very even satiny finish of about 400-600-ish grit that is very clean with only the most subtle flaws/machine marks. I have to admit the finish on this blade is not as good as the Albion I once owned but you have to be picking nits to be able to say that for sure. The sharpness that it came with was a little less than I like and there was a very slight secondary bevel which is common on ATrim swords. I was able to smooth out the secondary and clean off the slight burr on the edges with just a few strokes of 600 grit sand paper. Literally it took me about half an hour to smooth and de-burr 100% of both edges. The edges still are not really sharp but they are sharp enough they will just barely cut paper. I have had good luck with this level of sharpness on my MHAT so I’m going to give it a run on the Antioch and see how I like it. The fuller is well finished and nice and broad which I like. There is not even a hint of waiver or misalignment in the fuller which is what I expect from a sword of this level.
Handle/grip:
the leather grip appears to have been pressed and glued in place near as I can tell. There is a very visible seam along each edge of the grip which I find to be the most unattractive thing about this sword.
The rest of the grip shows a deep red color with black undertones and textured risers that I just love the look and feel of.
I had asked Mr. Fletcher to place the center riser so it would fall between my middle and ring fingers, but I did not give him any measurements to work with. All the same he NAILED it.
As I mentioned before the grip is a real tactile freak-out because my mind keeps saying “IT’S GONNA SLIP!!!” but then it doesn’t. My jury is still out on whether I like this grip or not, but I can’t argue with “it works”
Cross guard:
The humble type 2 with octagonal cross-section cross guard has never looked so nice on a sword I think. It is short enough to not get in the way or bind on the wrist (unless you’re doing something wrong) yet wide enough to feel like it would be handy at catching an enemy’s blade or delivering a nasty Murder-strike. It is dark and looks as though it may have been lightly blued. Very attractive, classic style, and works perfectly with the sword. This is the first thing I was planning to change at first but now I’m glad I didn’t this guard has really grown on me.
the blade is fit very snugly into a nice clean recess in the guard. this is quality work:
Pommel:
The pommel is a simple type J with clean lines and a slightly dark grey finish to match the cross guard. I had Mr. Fletcher etch a cross potent on each pommel face since I thought they looked like a large, plain, empty space and I felt that would support the theme on the rest of the sword. Well one of them didn’t turn out so well while one is very nice.
In the end this doesn’t bother me as I see this as character and gives it a cool feel. Ok maybe I’m being overly forgiving on this one but that’s just the way I feel about it. If it ever starts to really bother me I’ll find something to cover it with or I will just polish it off. The peen on the back of the pommel is very clean.
I have always preferred peened construction and this one is certainly done well. How refreshing.
Handling and Cutting:
A little while ago when I did the review of my custom mounted Hanwei/Tinker EMSHS I raved about how quick and light that sword was and how easily it moved yet how hard it hits. Well the Antioch is the same story only better. These two swords are very interesting to compare. They both weigh the same, they are the same length, and have the same point of balance. So they should handle exactly the same common logic would say. WRONG! While the EMSHS I put together turned out to be a wonderful sword the Antioch beats it in pretty much every category. One night I spent about three hours just dry handling these two swords together so I could feel all the subtle differences. The Antioch is just slightly faster to change direction and move from guard to guard. There’s an entirely different feel between two. the EMSHS feels solid and seems to have parked its weight firmly in my hand making it easy to move around that weight while the Antioch seems to have its weight spread out more but when it moves it floats and changing direction is close to effortless. It feels like all you have to do is give the sword a feel for which way you want it to go and it follows you of its own will. It’s almost like having a really perceptive dance partner that follows your lead flawlessly. The EMSHS on the other hand feels like a lighter sword that just sits there letting you do what you want instead of being a heavier sword that actively helps you get where you want to go like the Antioch. I know it’s a strange concept to describe a sword as ACTIVELY helping and following your lead but that’s the best way I can describe the effortless way this sword turns and moves with you. Mr. Trim is some sort of genius, that’s for sure. “Lively” has never been better used to describe a sword.
Not only does this sword move well but the harmonics are superb. Listen closely to the video and you will hear the sword softly ringing after each cut. That ring continues for a long time. I have plucked the edge with a fingernail before only to hear that soft ringing go on for close to two minutes. The vibrations of striking targets is almost imperceptible to the hand holding the sword.
In the cutting video below I would like to state that the sword was not being used to potential because I was feeling freaked out about the smooth grip and not cutting the way I should in most cases. Still it’s all I had time to do so this will have to stand for now as the review cutting video. I will be cutting with the Antioch on the 4th with the SwordNArmory Cutting Crew so keep your eyes open and you will see more, and hopefully better cutting soon. The last thing I want to point out about this video is that it was raining when I was cutting the bottles and the sword still didn’t slip of really act like it was going to. I take this to mean that my fear of it slipping is just paranoia and my being freaked out by a weird grip surface. So don’t blame the sword, it’s my fault.
Conclusions:
Pros:
Beautiful – this sword is very attractive with good finish, and custom options. This is one of the perks you get with higher priced swords.
Performance – heads and shoulders above production swords of similar weight and POB. This sword moves better, cuts better, and hits harder than other swords.
Harmonic balance – this sword is really smooth. It has a nice soft ring to it and even hard hits on solid targets doesn’t transfer the vibration to your hand.
Custom options – Mr. Fletcher is willing to do many alterations some of them for no charge so you can get the sword to look and handle the way you want.
Christian Fletcher – Mr. Fletcher is a great guy to work with, he listens to what you want, tells you what can be done and for how much. Everything is up-front and in the open, no surprises. He also delivered almost four months early.
Cons:
Price – first and foremost, she ain’t a cheap date, so the real question is do you get a good deal for your money? I think so. Not much of a con here except you have to be able to get the scratch together in the first place and there isn’t a lower priced option like an ATrim Maker’s Mark version.
The Grip still freaks me out and I think many others will have the same reaction but still it is built well and if Ric Willy can cut with oil all over his hand then I think I can manage a smooth leather grip.
The seam down the side of the grip still kinda bugs me a little. It’s not a big deal and I hardly ever even have the ability to see it, but I know it is there. If I were to do it all over I’d probably just go with a plain-old leather and cord wrapped grip.
Wait time – even though this one came much earlier than quoted most of folks in the sub $300 market are unaccustomed to and unhappy with waiting. So if you think you want to buy a sword from Mr. Fletcher just remember it is either grab what he puts up when he puts it up if you are lucky enough to see what you want when he has it up or commission what you want and wait.
THE BOTTOM LINE:
IS the Antioch the best performing type XII ever? I don’t know; I’m not even sure it is the best performing type XII I own. I think if I had gone with the plain-Jane leather and cord style grip it would be, but because of the grip I have yet to realize the full potential of this sword. I think it is very likely I will end up loving it the best of all my XII’s but for right now she’s still on probation.
In the end it comes down to the fact that I consider this to be a very expensive sword and it should perform as befits that price tag. Do I recommend it? YES but I would advise one to consider a different than standard grip unless the sword’s primary function is as a display piece or unless the buyer is very confident they can work through the weirdness of the grip.