# Communities > Antique Arms & Armour Community > Middle-East, India & Africa (MEIA) >  Help Identifying and Translating Dagger/knife, Persian???

## Chris Fuhrmann

Hi Guys, Hoping someone will be able to help me find out more about my Grandfathers antique knife/dagger. I know its at least 200 years old handed down through the family and possibly Persian origin. I have been unable to find out what the language written on the blade is. 
Any help would be appreciated.
Thanks 
Chris

----------


## Gene Wilkinson

Hi Chris,

It *is* a Persian dagger. It has a wootz blade and the hilt is made from Walrus tusk.
It's a rather nice thing. Congratulations.
Gene

----------


## Chris Fuhrmann

Thanks Gene for the identification I really appreciate it.
Regards
Chris

----------


## Chris Fuhrmann

Thanks Gene for the identification I really appreciate it.
Regards
Chris

----------


## Gene Wilkinson

Hi Chris,

You are more than welcome, and I am more than jealous  :Wink: 
You might now want to do some research into wootz steel. It is a truly fascinating subject. If you might start with a search for: persian wootz.
Don't ever be tempted to clean the blade. those little patterns that you can see in the surface of the steel (the grey and silver contrasting swirls) are characteristic of wootz. The process of creating them was difficult and time consuming.
If you want, you can maintain the blade with a little light oil. A film of oil will also help you to see the wootz patterns.

Best
Gene

----------


## Chris Fuhrmann

Thanks Gene,

I'm looking into it. Would you have any idea what time period this is from I cannot seem to identify the inscriptions as yet, knowing them time frames may help me narrow the language search down.  

Regards
Chris

----------


## Gene Wilkinson

*gulp* 
OK, well I'm not by any stretch of the imagination an expert. But I'll hazard a guess so if I'm wrong it'll 'provoke' others to correct me  :Wink: 
I would say that the quality is good, but of a plain form with simple mounts. More a good real weapon than an expensive frilly piece of jewelery, but within the timeframe where these are often refered to as 'revival' pieces. 
So, if I had to guess I would place its date between 1780 and 1840.
However, don't think for a second that I am critisizing it for not being terribly ornate. I would LOVE to own it myself. It's beautiful, a deadly blend of form and function.

I'm not sure that the gold overlay is going to be readable. You'd expect Farsi on a persian blade, but the way it's 'written' is familiar but...... You need someone familiar with Farsi and Arabic to give an opinion. My skills are VERY limited in that area.

----------


## Chris Fuhrmann

Thanks again Gene, your clearly more of an expert than you give yourself credit. It gives me a bit more to research as well which is great.

Regards
Chris

----------


## Gene Wilkinson

Honestly, not at all. My knowledge is very basic.

Can someone help with the koftgari? Are they stylised words?
Come on everyone, don't leave Chris to the mercy of my guesses  :Wink:

----------


## Chaz W.

Hello Gene,
    I am in the same boat!  I have asked 2 arcaeologists, 3 anthropologists, and countless others as to where this dagger originates.  All that I am told is that it's a Persian dagger as the language on the blade is obvious.  However, this dagger is quite unique and I do believe it to be the only one in existence.  I once thought that the handle is resin.....but resin doesn't dry out and get brittle like bone does.  However, I do hope that you can tell me more about this dagger! 

Sincerely,
Chaz[IMG][/IMG]

----------


## Chaz W.

Hello Gene,
    I am in the same boat!  I have asked 2 arcaeologists, 3 anthropologists, and countless others as to where this dagger originates.  All that I am told is that it's a Persian dagger as the language on the blade is obvious.  However, this dagger is quite unique and I do believe it to be the only one in existence.  I once thought that the handle is resin.....but resin doesn't dry out and get brittle like bone does.  However, I do hope that you can tell me more about this dagger! 

Sincerely,
Chaz[IMG][/IMG]

----------


## Gene Wilkinson

Oh god Chaz! I _can_ actually help you with that!  :Smilie: 

Your attractive dagger is a variation that I've not previously encountered, but the separate elements are distinctly Syrian.
The hilt is carved horn, probobly goat or bovine. The coloured dot designs are familiar motifs on Syrian knives and daggers. The bird designs appear on various Syrian knives but I don't know what the significance is. 
Perhaps one of the experts on that region might be of more help there.
The blade is unusual but the etched script reminds me of the panels seen on some types of the Syrian/Druze daggers associated with Majal Shams in the Golan Heights.
I'll try and find some pics to add.

----------


## Gene Wilkinson

Examples of the etched script on Syrian/Druze type daggers, associated with the Druze in the Majal Shams area (tower of the sun) of the Israeli occupied Golan Heights and with variations, Damascus. 
Here is an interesting thread over at vikingsword that I had the pleasure of contributing to. It covers the variations quite nicely.

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=13979

----------


## Chaz W.

Gene,
    Thank you so much!  You have been a great help!

Sincerely,
Chaz

----------


## Gene Wilkinson

Hi Chaz,

You are very welcome.
And a big welcome to the boards. Are you a collector of blades or is this a one-off?
Best
Gene

----------


## Largerie JM.

Hello,

 In fact, your dagger was probably made ​​ at the cutlery of Jezzine (Lebanon). The stick is traditionally made ​​of horn inlaid with ivory colored. It represents a bird that scratches his chest with its beak, its wings are copper and its head is adorned with a crest, bone stained red.

 This production by the Haddad family  exists since the end of the nineteenth. It manufactures, even today, only 7 parts per day. But now, as the ivory horns of buffalo, goat or sheep are becoming increasingly rare and very expensive, so they use a blend of cotton and wood, or worse, plastic whose result is not great (for the imitation).

 They manufacture both cooking utensils (knives, forks, bottle-opener!!, spoons .....) but also for gift items (sword, dagger ...)

 So to find the age of your dagger, go through the material used for the handle and the quality steel.

 I have tie-spoons for the 50's...............and one of the last year :Smilie: 


With kind regards 

JM

----------

