# Communities > Antique Arms & Armour Community > Middle-East, India & Africa (MEIA) >  yatagan identification?

## z.lukic

is this a tourist piece, or the real yataghan. Thanks for help!!

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## Jimmy Liu

Looks like a legit antique piece from here. Tourist pieces tend to have very bad steel.

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## z.lukic

thanks Jimmy!! I hope you are right. I was going to buy it but I was not sure it was the real antique yataghan.  I guess because of the sword's shape and condition. I would like to find out more about the origin of the sword ( year, period, etc). Thanks again

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## Sancar Ozer

ı can't put my finger on it , but something feels very very wrong with this yataghan. Either it is heavily restored or recently made.

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## z.lukic

Thanks Sancar. I have the same feeling. I believe it is recently made. Thanks brother.

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## Lawrence Newton

To Mr z lukic
Here are some pics of an old damaged yataghan and inscription with a date 1209 hijre which converts to 1794/5 gregorian.
Notice how pitted the steel is.  I also think the one you show is of recent manufacture.
 
Am still hoping someone out there can help with the translation.  Still your yataghan is beautiful.
Regards,
L. Newton

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## eric t

> Looks like a legit antique piece from here. Tourist pieces tend to have very bad steel.


Obviously newly made, here is a link were you can see many authentic antique yatagan, the difference is dramatic. 
http://www.pinterest.com/samuraianti...d-small-hand-/

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## Lawrence Newton

> Obviously newly made, here is a link were you can see many authentic antique yatagan, the difference is dramatic. 
> http://www.pinterest.com/samuraianti...d-small-hand-/


The above link does not seem to show any 18th-19th century Balkan infantry yataghans.  Why do you think this one is newly made?  Maybe you didn't see the pics I sent of mine, could this be?
Respectfully,
L. Newton

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## eric t

> The above link does not seem to show any 18th-19th century Balkan infantry yataghans.  Why do you think this one is newly made?  Maybe you didn't see the pics I sent of mine, could this be?
> Respectfully,
> L. Newton


Lawrence, are we talking about the same yatagan? Didnt you also say that z lukic's yatagan was newly made? 



> To Mr z lukic
>   I also think the one you show is of recent manufacture.
> L. Newton


The link I posted shows many different types of authentic, antique yatagan including Balkan yatagan style bichaq daggers, there are over 500 images of different Indo-Persian swords, daggers, etc, I have included one image of a Balkan yatagan from the pinterest gallery.

As for the yatagan posted by z.lukic, were was it mentioned as being a 18th-19th century Balkan infantry yatagan, it looks newly made to me, first I see no sign of wear which is very strange, the blade looks to be brightly polished and I have not seen an antique yatagan with a fuller as in the one posted by z.lukic, there is some sort of stain used to make the brass look old and you can see the same stain has smeared the blade, the scabbard does not look like what you would expect to see with an antique yatagan either, there are just to many differences between the one posted and the antique ones that I have seen.







19th century Balkan yatagan.

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## Lawrence Newton

Dear Mr Erick t,
     Yes the pics you send suggest most strongly that, that yataghan is of recent re manufacture .  Above I enclose pics of the one I have had in the family since 1967.  From what I can decipher, the date inscribed is 1209 Hijra or 1794/5 gregorian. I'm currently working on transliterating the inscription, but love to have some assistance with this.
What do you think?
Best
L. Newton

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## eric t

> Above I enclose pics of the one I have had in the family since 1967.  From what I can decipher, the date inscribed is 1209 Hijra or 1794/5 gregorian. I'm currently working on transliterating the inscription, but love to have some assistance with this.
> What do you think?
> Best
> L. Newton


I can not help with the translation, the best I can do is make it a little clearer for someone who can help.

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## Lawrence Newton

Thanks Eric t. For enlarging the photo.  Maybe someone who knows Ottoman Turkish will see it and respond.
Best 
L. Newton

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## emir erkmen

Transcription from Ottoman Turkish to Latin Alphabet:  1209  (1794-1795) Amel-i Mehmed, Sahibi Bekir Beşe, Bıçak elde gerek dilde sübhan. 
Translation: 1794-1795 Made by Mehmed, Owner Bekir Beşe, Knives (sword) should be on the hand, God shoud be in the mouth.

This sword must be owned by a jannissary. Because the title of "Beşe" was used by Jannisaries. Jannisaries were destroyed in 1826.

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## Lawrence Newton

Mr. Emir Erkmen,
    Thank you very much for your response and translation.  I tried to transliterate the characters in the inscription to modern Turkish but failed when I could not identify several of the letters in the Ottoman Turkish alphabet.
    Again thank you.  The owner having been a janissary is a nice historical morsel for me to educate myself about.
All the best,
L. Newton

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## emir erkmen

Mr. Newton,
You are welcome. Especially second part of the transcription was little hard. You can not identify to the letters. Anyway I am happy that it really useful for you.   

Best regards, 

S. E. Erkmen

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## eric t

> Transcription from Ottoman Turkish to Latin Alphabet:  1209  (1794-1795) Amel-i Mehmed, Sahibi Bekir Beşe, Bıçak elde gerek dilde sübhan. 
> Translation: 1794-1795 Made by Mehmed, Owner Bekir Beşe, Knives (sword) should be on the hand, God shoud be in the mouth.
> 
> This sword must be owned by a jannissary. Because the title of "Beşe" was used by Jannisaries. Jannisaries were destroyed in 1826.


Emir, very interesting!!

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## Lawrence Newton

Emir,
Attached is another view of the sword and a drawing by me of the inscriptions.  Does this clarify or add anything to your translation effort?
Thanks again,
L. Newton

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## emir erkmen

Mr. Newton,
It is quite clear. There is no need add to anything. Full inscription. 

Welcome.

S. E. Erkmen

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## Lawrence Newton

Thank you again, Mr. Erkmen, your effort is much appreciated.
L. Newton

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## z.lukic

Thanks guys for the information. It is definitely a fake

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