# Communities > Modern-era Swords and Collecting Community > Modern Production Katanas >  Masahiro chipped

## Alfredo Ibarra

HI Forum

I own a Masahiro MA005 production sword (not a collectors item definitely, but it helps me with kata  :Stick Out Tongue:  ), Yesterday something very curious happened, a friend has a ornamental ninjato ( tsuka is plastic and fuchis are soldered to tsuba) the blade is full tang and made from stainless chromed steel, and he bought it in a store thats specialized innornamental swords

Anyway, i was polishing them both for display  and the ninjato slipped from my hand and felt with the edge on the back of my MAsahiro, leaving a small (fortunately) chipping on it, it got me curious since i tought carbon steel (Masahiro blades are carbon steel as far as i knew) is supposed to be harder than stainless and the ninjato was not chipped or damaged at all!!!

After this i got, off course angry and decided to give a smalle test, so i put both edges against one another on the base of the swords (near tsuba, right after the collar) and pressed..

The results...

MAsahiro   CHIPPED AGAIN!!!!
Ornamental Ninjato... FLAWLESS!!! AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

any comments or facts about this?? 

I know its not a perfect sword but i will keep it on stand by til i get a response, dont wanna get injured while practicing kata

thanks to all of you  :Smilie:

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## Andrew W. Priestley

Yup,

sounds like the Masahiro is poorly heat treated (not a big surprise there).  hardened too hard and then no tempering to relieve stresses caused in hardening, makes for a brittle edge. 

this is why few, if any, legitimate dojos will allow someone to cut with a Masahiro of any description.

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## Brian Pettett

I've seen iaito blades where the hamachi (notch in the edge, in front of the habaki) gets ever-so-slightly deformed, because the aluminum can't quite handle the stresses like a normal steel blade would.   One day we were doing some tameshigiri after class, and a student asked to cut with his own Masahiro Bamboo.  Upon inspecting it, I saw that it had the very same condition.  On a steel blade.  I didn't let him use it...

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## Timo Qvintus

> I've seen iaito blades where the hamachi (notch in the edge, in front of the habaki) gets ever-so-slightly deformed, because the aluminum can't quite handle the stresses like a normal steel blade would.   One day we were doing some tameshigiri after class, and a student asked to cut with his own Masahiro Bamboo.  Upon inspecting it, I saw that it had the very same condition.  On a steel blade.  I didn't let him use it...


hmm, I'll have to check my MB again..

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## Alfredo Ibarra

I know Masahiro is faaaaaaaaaaaaar away from being a good tameshigiri blade and well.. u know better this

The point is that as far as i knew, these blades were supposed to be acceptable in certain ways, off course not for tameshigiri and heavy serious training. Are they real carbon steel, and are they folded ?? Some say thay they do, but does someone know  for sure how are they made?? and which type of steel are they using to forge em?
 :Confused:  :Confused:  :Confused:

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## Andrew W. Priestley

> I know Masahiro is faaaaaaaaaaaaar away from being a good tameshigiri blade and well.. u know better this
> 
> The point is that as far as i knew, these blades were supposed to be acceptable in certain ways, off course not for tameshigiri and heavy serious training. Are they real carbon steel, and are they folded ?? Some say thay they do, but does someone know  for sure how are they made?? and which type of steel are they using to forge em?


A sword is either acceptable or not.  For backyard choppers they may seem acceptable due to lack of experience and understanding in what constitutes and acceptable blade, but to knowledgeable folks, they aren't.

Folded Masahiro's unlikely and I would be even MORE skeptical of a folded Masahiro since the folding process is an opportunity for many different forge-weld flaws to creep in, especially at masahiro's prices.  Differentially hardned and tempered?  Also unlikely except in the most rudimentary fashion.  Again, it seems likely that the sword in question was quenched and hardened, but not tempered afterward, thus the unacceptable brittleness. 

You can't make a silk purse out of a sow's ear.

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## Alfredo Ibarra

Thanks a lot for your valuable information Andrew, what would you suggest for an acceptable sword, for now on a collectors point of view (i wont use it until im ready and fully instructed)

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## Chris Osborne

It would be hard to say what could be considered "acceptable" when it comes to production type blades. You might get one blade that has a decent heat treat and another of the same make might be brittle just like yours, it's simply gonna be hit and miss. These blades are heated in most cases around ten at a time in a large oven prior to quenching, so don't expect much in the way of consistency in their metallurgical properties. What is "acceptable" will be very much dependent on what you're going to do with your blade. Some of the higher end offerings out there might have better consistency, but without testing multiple samples of each blade it's anyones guess.

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## Timo Qvintus

"Collect what you like, but like what you collect"
-the best quote about collecting swords *EVER*  :Smilie: 

Production-swords are hardly "collectible"; they usually keep their value if you don't use them, value goes down with use, but the value almost never goes up. Don't expect to make profit with a production piece. So, buy something that you like without giving the possible re-sale value any thought; indeed, buy something you don't even think of selling!

One thing about "acceptable", in this context, since you mentioned training.. ask your instructor/sensei. Don't buy something that you may not be able to use in your training when it's time to draw shinken.

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