# Communities > Antique Arms & Armour Community > Antique & Military Sword Forum >  Help ID Scottish infantry basket hilt sword

## B Hutchins

Hi long time since I posted but am hoping the forum might be able to help date a Scottish basket hilt sword a relative has recently bought and decipher the markings the blade - see the pics. It looks like it has had an old repair to part of the hilt....

If anyone can help that would be great. Infantry swords are a bit outside my comfort zone and main interest of 1796 LC officers swords and variations. :Confused: 

Does anyone also know where I could source a liner for the hilt?

Many thanks, Ben

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## Will Mathieson

Appears to be a sergeants sword with sold from service opposing broad arrows. I would think Pooley Sword in the UK or William Scully of Montreal can supply liners.

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## B Hutchins

> Appears to be a sergeants sword with sold from service opposing broad arrows. I would think Pooley Sword in the UK or William Scully of Montreal can supply liners.


Thanks Will, really helpful any idea what the other markings mean? Or a time frame?

Many thanks, Ben

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## Will Mathieson

The other marks would be inspection markings, the EC, not sure but may be ra egimental marking.

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## B Hutchins

Any idea which regiment it could be? I'm used to seeing officers swords so could do with all the help i can get! Could E C stand for Edinburgh Castle?


Thanks , Ben

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## Will Mathieson

I do not know what EC represents. If this was an officers sword it may have regimental etching etc. These pain bladed swords are difficult or cannot be associated to a particular regiment other than a Highland one.  No markings on the inside of the basket? Unfortunately no scabbard, sometimes they were marked.
Appears to have a nice wide blade which displays well. What is the blade width and length?

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## Max C.

The flat bar construction of the basket would indicate late 19th century IMHO. Earlier examples tend to have more rounded lines and thinner bars.

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## steve oakley

Hi

Recently seen on ebay. Same stamp being the EC but i have no further info as to what it means. However at least you know that two exist now.

regards
Steve

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## Ben Bevan

Steve, could it be as simple as the London Postal Area ( E C - East Central) as several Cutlers/Outfitters were based there? It doesnt look to me like an old Regimental marking. Ben

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## erikmiddleton

Not sure if this helps, The circular of March 23rd 1863 stated that weapons given to soldiers sent to the Ypres cavalry school would be stamped with the letters E.C.. They will also be marked with the year they came into service. Since the 3rd and 4th lancier regiments were created at this time, based on the defunct 1st and 2nd cuirassier regiments, it was decided that their weapons would still bear the letters attributed to the cuirassiers regiments. These weapons were dated 1853 ??.

The circular of June 17th 1869 stated that briquet saber scabbards and bayonet-saber scabbards will be marked on the leather only.

Summarizing the situation on March 23rd 1863, gives us the following table :

to L	1st to 12th infantry regiment or associated workers
M to O	1st to 3rd chasseurs à pied regiment or associated workers
P	miner's battalion or associated workers
Q and R	1st and 2nd chasseurs à cheval regiment or associated workers
S and T	1st and 2nd lancier regiment or associated workers
U	guides regiment or associated workers
V	3rd lancier regiment or associated workers
V*	4th lancier regiment or associated workers
W	Gendarmerie
X to Z	1st to 3rd artillery regiment or associated workers
I*	13th reserve regiment or associated workers
II to IX	14th to 21st reserve regiment or associated workers
A.A. to A.D.	1st to 4th administration companies
B.E.	Armée de l'Escaut or associated workers
E.C.	Ypres cavalry school
a4th artillery regiment or associated workers


https://swordsdb.com/SwordsDB_Belgian_Swords_Marks.php

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## Will Mathieson

A British sword with British markings would not apply to Belgian swords. However interesting info that can be used for other swords.

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## steve oakley

Ben, Cathy 
A further search of the internet found a antique sword dealer with the same basket hilts.  Description listed as "A was well made early to mid 20th Century ceremonial Scottish basket hilted broadsword. Birmingham view (inspection) marks, the blade almost certainly Birmingham made too with its long forte. The Crown over B view mark above "T A" for Territorial Army (1921 onwards). Also marked (stamped) to the blade but with a different die "E C", unofficial marking most likely to be for Edinburgh Castle'

And another same basket hilt from the same site but with SC stamped on the blade "A well made though manufactured for ceremonial only use, Scottish basket hilted broadsword. Birmingham view (inspection) mark, the blade almost certainly Birmingham made too with its long forte. The Crown over B view mark above "T A" for Territorial Army (1921 onwards). Also marked (stamped) to the blade but with a different die "S C", unofficial marking most likely to be for Stirling Castle."

If they were ceremonial swords then i wouldn't have thought that there would have been a need to stamp them with a crown over a number in the early to mid 1900's.  Whether the dealer is the right track for Edinburgh Castle and Sterling Castle is open to interpretation.

Alas there were a number of basket hilts made with this stamping or similar it seems.

regards
Steve

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## william fisher

possibely   pooly swords... robert lathom ??  sorry bad spelling

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## Ben Bevan

I think I can add a bit more, as by pure coincidence I was kindly give one of these swords today! Blade length is 33, it weighs just short of 3lbs, and is horribly blade heavy, ceremonial or not its probable only use was to dance over! Its the first basket hilt Ive owned so not very familiar with them in the flesh. Its of strong construction but doesnt feel its got much age to it, the leather grip is untouched with the wire intact.You can also hopefully see that the central fuller (on both sides) is poorly made and not symmetrical. What I can say for certain, which echoes the dealers comments that Steve mentioned is that the right hand mark is that of The Birmingham Small Arms Trade Association ( not territorial army). The mark is a crown above  B  above  STA when struck properly (I have two other swords with this mark). The BSTA began in the 1850s and ended in 1878, so do we have some old Birmingham blades being used to make up these later ceremonial swords? Apologies for the inverted pics! Ben.

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## Ben Bevan

Further to my last, just done a simple search for swords in The Great Hall at Edinburgh Castle, hopefully you can see the E C just below the ricasso on the left hand one. There are several good photos of the many basket hilts in racks on the walls, however those you can see close up do look original with old used grips, unlike the ones were discussing.

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## Will Mathieson

I found one at auction that shows a casting line and barazing, a modern copy and has identical blade markings 
https://www.invaluable.com/auction-l...ord-c7b4934b6a

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## Ben Bevan

I see it’s also stamped with spurious ‘sold out of service’ opposing broad arrows!

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