# Communities > Antique Arms & Armour Community > Antique & Military Sword Forum >  Pre-numbered Wilkinson - patent hilt

## james.elstob

Hi all, 

Help wanted to test my research on a lot won in Wednesday's auction at Bosleys; if anyone was watching there were a number of very nice sword up for grabs. 

I was going to wait until I had this in hand before posting but with 800 lots to process it could be weeks before I see it. 

It's a pre-numbering, Wilkinson patent hilt, 1821 light cavalry sword etched with initials 'RB'. 

I have my own opinion on the likely owner but is anyone else willing to take a look and offer an unbiased opinion?

Regards

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## Will Mathieson

James that is a very nice Wilkinson with leather grips. I was looking at that one but with recent problems finding anyone who will ship swords I've really cut back on UK sales.

I do not know who's sword yours was, what is your idea? Obviously someone with some wealth. Would be great to connect it to the Light Brigade.

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## MikeShowers

James,
 The sword has been service sharpened which is good. Checked the Army List and there is only one RB, cornet Dec 1853, so probably the same guy you've found.   Now, I have a list of Bengal Army officers and there is a Captain R. Baring, Bengal Cavalry.  Cornet 1851, Lt 1854, so correct period. There is also a Richard Boulton, Bengal Cavalry.  I don't have early officer lists for the Madras Army or Bombay, but I think the FIBIS Wiki site does, so then you can make a short list of eligible RB's and begin playing detective.  To bad that R.B. didn't put his crest or some regimental etching on the sword.

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## Matt Easton

> but with recent problems finding anyone who will ship swords I've really cut back on UK sales.



I am puzzled by that statement, Will. Absolutely everyone I deal with, from auction houses to dealers to shipping companies will ship swords as normal! Mailboxes are shipping swords all the time and using various companies to send them, including Parcelforce, DHL and others.

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## Matt Easton

> James,
>  The sword has been service sharpened which is good. Checked the Army List and there is only one RB, cornet Dec 1853, so probably the same guy you've found.   Now, I have a list of Bengal Army officers and there is a Captain R. Baring, Bengal Cavalry.  Cornet 1851, Lt 1854, so correct period. There is also a Richard Boulton, Bengal Cavalry.  I don't have early officer lists for the Madras Army or Bombay, but I think the FIBIS Wiki site does, so then you can make a short list of eligible RB's and begin playing detective.  To bad that R.B. didn't put his crest or some regimental etching on the sword.


Like Mike, I had a little search and concluded, unfortunately, that it would be impossible to ever match it to one individual as there are a few likely suspects. I think it's adequate to appreciate it as a really nice example of an early patent solid hilt, though wow, that price. Never sell it  :Big Grin:

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## IMoran

That is one fantastic sword, I was watching it too.

I had a long look through the army lists and thought that a good contender was Robert Bickerstaff of the 6th Dragoon Guards.  I think his original commission was in the late 1840s, but the 6th converter to light cavalry in the early 1850s so would have had a light cavalry sword at some point.

Do you have any thoughts on the scabbard drag being not the usual one?

Kind Regards

Ian

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## james.elstob

> James,
>  The sword has been service sharpened which is good. Checked the Army List and there is only one RB, cornet Dec 1853, so probably the same guy you've found.



Yes Mike, Robert Blair of 2nd DG exciting because he is a V. C. recipient from the Mutiny as was private Donohue who saved Blair after his act of bravery and as was Blair's close friend Alfred Jones with whom he had made a pact to try and win the new V. C. award during the Mutiny. 

On 26th December 1856 Blair had exchanged from 9th Lancers to 2nd DG however as his new regiment was waiting to be posted to India he remained doing duty with 9th Lancers until the time of his V. C. action. This suggests that there was no reason (or perhaps even opportunity later, during the Mutiny) for him to have dispensed with his light cavalry pattern sword. 

Blair won his V. C. At Boolundshuher (varied spellings) on 27th September 1857. There are numerous discrepancies in reported accounts, whether he killed 3 men or 4, whether he was wounded by his first kill or his last. Whether his arm was severed/amputated/or neither (he wore his 'arm' in a sling at his investiture). 

By all accounts he recieved a severe sabre cut to his left shoulder after thrusting a native officer through the body. A more detailed report is offered by an officer identifying as John Evans who suggests the humerus was severed and the upper part of this bone amputated. This same source states he killed 4, one with a thrust; one a cut and two with pistol shots. This source is controversial and partly contested as it also alleges a mutiny of her Majesty's forces (75th Regiment) who it is said declined to charge as ordered during another action at the same town.

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## james.elstob

> Like Mike, I had a little search and concluded, unfortunately, that it would be impossible to ever match it to one individual as there are a few likely suspects. I think it's adequate to appreciate it as a really nice example of an early patent solid hilt, though wow, that price. Never sell it


Yes, Matt I got very carried away. Money, you can't take it with you..... but you can use it to buy food and medicines and rent so..... I'm not thinking about it. 

I sadly agree that it's going to be impossible to pin this one down difinitively. 

I cannot even rule out yeomanry officers, officers with short term or cancelled commissions or perhaps even a civilian purchase. 

However, numbered Wilkinsons begin 1st Jan 1854 and patent hilt examples began to show in the proof ledger immediately. So this example is 1853 or prior. 

With reference to your own excellent article on the early Reeves patent hilt, Reeves patent was applied for [April] and granted [October] in 1853 and Robert Wilkinson-Latham elsewhere on swordforum surmised that Wilkinson manufactured the patent hilt under licence from Reeves. So it would seem that 1853 would be a reasonable date for this example. 

I'm unclear on the earliest confirmed date of a Wilkinson patent hilt, though if 1853 I think puts Robert Blair in the hot-spot.

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## Matt Easton

I think we can presume a few things (even if they are never 100% in reality): RB should only use those two initials in army lists, no middle names. RB should have seen active service - anybody who didn't I think we can rule out. RB could have been in the army before purchasing the sword, as many officers updated their swords - in my experience quite often after serving in a campaign, presumably because their campaign sword got trashed. So any simple RB in the Queens or Company army who saw active service at some point after 1852/53, and who in 1852/53 was in the light cavalry. Blair seems like a very good suspect and I presume whoever the under-bidder was would have suspected that provenance also, to have driven the price up that high.

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## james.elstob

> That is one fantastic sword, I was watching it too.
> 
> I had a long look through the army lists and thought that a good contender was Robert Bickerstaff of the 6th Dragoon Guards.  I think his original commission was in the late 1840s, but the 6th converter to light cavalry in the early 1850s so would have had a light cavalry sword at some point.
> 
> Do you have any thoughts on the scabbard drag being not the usual one?
> 
> Kind Regards
> 
> Ian


Ian, I hadn't considered regiments converting. Good spot. I'd better look into the dates.

I'd also be interested in an opinion on the scabbard drag. If any Wilkinson records exits describing the supply of swords prior to the numbering system it's the sort of detail that might prove useful.

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## Will Mathieson

The sword has no etching regarding the hilt type. Previous to the patent solid hilt of Wilkinsons is Reeves Patent Hilt and before this Reeves Registered Hilt. Would have to know when Wilkinsons bought the rights to make Reeves patent hilts. May be later than 1853 for Wilkinson to etch and advertise patent solid hilts as Reeves would first have to be granted the patent.

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## Will Mathieson

Can you picture the scabbard drag? The scabbard most likely is leather lined.

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## james.elstob

> Can you picture the scabbard drag? The scabbard most likely is leather lined.

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## Will Mathieson

I have a Wilkinson within a two year period of yours with virtually identical if not identical drag.

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## james.elstob

> I have a Wilkinson within a two year period of yours with virtually identical if not identical drag.


Are you aware of the terminology for this design?

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## Will Mathieson

I don't know the terminology for this or if anyone has even classified them.

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## james.elstob

Having thoroughly checked the India army lists for Bengal, Madras and Bombay: 1852 - 1856 inclusive I find 22 officers with the sole initials 'RB'. Of these: - 

_16 served throughout that period with infantry Regiments.

1 Bengal Supervising Surgeon (who disappeared from the lists anyway after 1852)

2 Assistant Surgeons - branch not stated._
Presumably it is reasonably safe to discount these 19 officers? 

Of the remainder:-

_Robert Baring (appt. 1851) cornet 3rd light cavalry. 

Richard Boulton (appt. 1835) capt. 1849 7th light cavalry.  Regmt arrived India 1839. 

Ronald Bayne (appt. 1845) Surgeon 1st sind irregular horse - I am unaware of what pattern this officer would carry but am aware of the sind irregular horse pattern._
Any observations on these options with a view to confirming they are in the frame or to rule them out? 

Regards

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## Will Mathieson

With the light cavalry sword pattern and narrow date it was made in using the info provided Robert Baring (appt. 1851) cornet 3rd light cavalry would be your only conclusion.
Was the Baring family fairly wealthy? This sword was expensive.

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## james.elstob

Will, that was just the Indian list, it still leaves the hoped for Robert Blair v.c. from 9th lancers/2nd DG and  also Robert Bickerstaff of 6th DG who were ordered to be fitted out for light cavalry in 1851 although I understand it this was delayed due to the crimean war and the exact dates are obscure about the conversion.

As Matt points out, serving officers might have chosen to replace their swords in the date range so I intend to go through the British Army lists again just to be sure I have covered all bases.

I also have more detective work to do on the above Indian officers. I hope to be able to cull the list further. 

In the mean time any info from other sources is welcome.

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## Will Mathieson

I was just going by the info in #17. Hopefully you can narrow it down, but to one with these other officers seems difficult. Just pick the officer with the best history!
I have a Coldstream Guard Wilkinson with Toledo blade but no initials and nothing on the Wilkinson proof page so no hope of identifying the owner unless the sword is described in some obscure writings.

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## Matt Easton

Incidentally, if this is the same Baring family of Baring Bank fame, I own a sword (Wilkinson patent hilt) from that family also.

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## Matt Easton

> 


I have at least a couple of Wilkinsons with this style of drag.

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## MikeShowers

I think Baring and Boulton would be contenders so far, not sure about Bayne for the reason you state.  Baring was ADC to the Governor General of India during the Mutiny so that might explain why he has no official Mutiny service, but would have probably had a sharp sword.  Boulton retired, or died, sometime in 1857 or 58 but I haven't looked up the exact date.

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## james.elstob

I have good reason to suspect that Robert Baring can be ruled out but I am hoping for further information before I can say more. 

Re Richard Boulton I should have specified that he was with 7th Bengal light Cav. and I was incorrect in stating they arrived in India in 1839.  However I can say that Boulton arrived India in April 1846 presumably with sword although that does not rule him out buying a replacement.

edit: Richard boulton died 20 January 1878 following a fall from a horse. He retired March 1857, is he going to be buying a patent hilt sword in 1853? Possibly although his Regiment was involved only in minor operations against the southern Mahrattas from 1844 to 1855. - Wikipedia .  

Having now reviewed all cavalry regiments from British Army lists 1851-1855. I find the following 2 RB's with the wrong pattern sword so safe to discount: - 

_Richard Bateson (1849) 1st life guards
Robert Bell (1835) 5th DG (disappeared anyway after 1853)_

This leaves only two more possible candidates from British  lists in addition to the 3 above from the India lists. Both have been mentioned before. 

_Robert Bickerstaff (commission: 1844) 6th DG. The Regiment were ordered to be refitted as light cavalry in 1851, but am I correct in thinking that this process began but was reversed having never been fully completed? Is anyone aware of any light cavalry sword attributed to the 6th DG? 

Robert Blair (1853) 9th lancers. appointment as cornet fits the date of a Pre-numbered Wilkinson solid hilt._ 
A helpful piece of info would be to know the date of the first Wilkinson patent hilt.

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## IMoran

Hi James,

I have been giving this a bit of thought and would have responded to the post before now but am away in the sun.

I did look into the possible RB owners prior to the auction as bidding imaginary money on swords is a hobby of mine.  There is a book on line (google books preview) which has images of swords attributed to the 6th DG and there is three bar hilt pictured.  I am sorry as I am doing this from my phone I can’t find the link,  I think (but am probably wrong) that the special pattern hilt wasn’t formalised for the 6th until the 1870s.  Bickerstaff was also pictured in the book (portrait only and sword not too visible but possibly three bar).

I suspect that the only definitive answer is to find a picture of one of the named guys and hope it shows the drag! Bickerstaff was witj the 6th though the Crimea and Mutiny so there is an off chance one of the photographers from the period got him, or a colleague, 

Finally, I am not sure if this is anything that adds light but there is a wonderful pen portrait of Bickerstaff available on google books from an unnamed cornet during the mutiny, he is described as being vain and egotistical beyond belief!  It might be the kind of man to buy a flash and unusual sword!

Whoever did own it, it is a great sword in good condition, and you have multiple officers to research.

Kind Regards 

Ian

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## james.elstob

Thanks Ian, just remembered my Richard Dellar and he confirms between 1851 and 1875 officers of the 6th DG carried the 3 bar light cavalry hilt.  However 1851 is likely too early for Wilkinson made patent hilt is it not?

P. S. I should have thought to check Dellar earlier. There is a similar pre numbered PT Wilkinson on page 155 although date origin unclear. 

Also of interest on page 156 is an 1821 pattern of the 9th lancers which has a straight blade etched to 9th Lancers (as per Robert Blair) this was owned by an officer who joined the 9th in 1842.  Was there any particular preference in the 9th Lancers toward a straight blade?

P. P. S a straight 'lance-like' blade one might say!

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## Will Mathieson

Reeves registered the "solid hilt" previous to the patent of 1853 I believe and shown on early Reeves solid hilts with "registered" etched on the blade.. Did Wilkinson's have permission from Reeves to make "solid hilts" previous to patent date, this sword seems to say so?

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## james.elstob

> Reeves registered the "solid hilt" previous to the patent of 1853 I believe and shown on early Reeves solid hilts with "registered" etched on the blade.. Did Wilkinson's have permission from Reeves to make "solid hilts" previous to patent date, this sword seems to say so?


Unless this sword was bought by Robert Blair prior to his commissioning in December 1853 which could place it after the patent.

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## james.elstob

Here are a couple of questions I've been mulling over on the dating of early wilkinson PT hilts. 

What was the difference between 'registeted' on the spine of Matt's early Reeves PT and 'patented' used later? 

Would this registered status have stopped Wilkinson from freely copying the PT?

Would Reeves have wanted/needed to have the patent secured before agreeing to anyone else manufacturing the PT?

Any Victorian law specialists out there?

As there was a good relationship between Reeves and Wilkinson why wouldn't they both want to profit from this new gimmick as soon as possible?  

However if Wilkinson were producing PT from prior to 1853 why don't we know of any confirmed examples and weren't Reeves and Wilkinson not direct competitors at that time.  Would Reeves not want to benefit at least initially from his sole hold over this new patent?

The answers lost in the mists of time I suspect.

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## Will Mathieson

There are Reeves examples of swords pre 1853 etched "registered" for the solid hilt. Why this Wilkinson sword has no etching to advertise the registered or patent hilt is odd which makes me think this sword is before the patent but I have no proof of this.

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## james.elstob

Did I dream this, or have I read somewhere an analysis of how many Wilkinsons from the existing proof books were patent tangs?  It would be interesting to know how many of the 495 produced in 1854 were patent tangs.

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## Will Mathieson

1855 Wilkinson's also made quite a few swords with special order blades and hilts. New officers learned of the thick Russian winter coats and wanted something that would penetrate.
I believe the Royal Armouries has the Wilkinson proof books and I've read you can look at them but copying them is sold by the page. 
Maybe some energetic volunteer could look through them making notes? I have the time but don't live in the country.

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## Matt Easton

> Also of interest on page 156 is an 1821 pattern of the 9th lancers which has a straight blade etched to 9th Lancers (as per Robert Blair) this was owned by an officer who joined the 9th in 1842.  Was there any particular preference in the 9th Lancers toward a straight blade?
> 
> P. P. S a straight 'lance-like' blade one might say!


I have noticed this as well and indeed some years ago I did have a straight bladed cavalry sword to a lancers officer.. Unfortunately I cannot remember the officer's name to look him up!

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## Matt Easton

Deleted double post.

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## Matt Easton

There is some interesting info in this thread and the question of how to date an early patent hilt is fascinating to me.

First up, here is the article referred to which I put together after obtaining an early pre-'patent' Reeves: http://www.fioredeiliberi.org/antiqu...-sale/1821-92/

I agree with Will, that it is interesting that this Wilkinson's etching makes no mention of the patent. That would suggest without much question that the sword dates to before October 1853 (when the patent was granted). Reeves themselves (as on my example) used 'registered' before the patent was confirmed.

My Reeves patent hilt dates to before 1851, due to the business address etched on the blade. Wilkinson were making swords from 1844 onwards. So, technically this sword could date between 1844 and October 1853.

However, my sword is from Reeves themselves and has an earlier prototype kind of construction. So I think the assumption has to be that this RB Wilkinson *probably* dates between about 1850 and October 1853. As mentioned, it could have been purchased by a young officer newly commissioned, or an experienced officer who simply wanted a new sword (in my experience, a lot of non-regulation swords were actually later purchases by more experienced officers).

In the search for 'RB', I think we must be looking only at officers who were already in the service between 1850 (or perhaps as early as 1845) and October 1853.

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## gordon byrne

Hi James,

I'd seen the sword pre-auction, and find your post and various responses all very interesting.

Whilst I've not done much in terms of looking for RB, I though I might mention my Patent Solid Hilt "Bengal Cavalry" example Proof No. 7287, which dates to April 1856 and was purchased by a chap who joined the 6th Bengal Light Cavalry (a native regiment) before they mutinied.

Virtually the same as your sword, the hilt has leather grip plates, domed chequered pommel and chequered thumb-rest. Apart from the specific blade marking Patent Solid Hilt, the blade at forte looks almost the same, but my scabbard has a normal shoe.

Having said that, I do have another Wilkinson with a broadsword blade (double edged), no proof number and it has a scabbard shoe likes yours.

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## james.elstob

> Having said that, I do have another Wilkinson with a broadsword blade (double edged), no proof number and it has a scabbard shoe likes yours.


Thanks Gordon,  there must be a term used for this shoe if for no more reason than Wilkinson jargon to explain what was ordered.

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## james.elstob

Another thread describing a straight bladed 1821 officers sword etched to the 9th lancers. (belonging to TJ Francis) 

Edited link:

http://www.swordforum.com/vb4/showth...-Officer-Sword

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## Will Mathieson

The link does not work for me unfortunately. I do have a Wilkinson with patent hilt and straight blade etched to the Yokohama Mounted Volunteershttp://www.swordforum.com/vb4/showthread.php?90825-Is-this-Latham-Wilkinson-a-bit-naughty-!

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## james.elstob

> Bickerstaff was also pictured in the book (portrait only and sword not too visible but possibly three bar).
> 
> I suspect that the only definitive answer is to find a picture of one of the named guys and hope it shows the drag! Bickerstaff was witj the 6th though the Crimea and Mutiny so there is an off chance one of the photographers from the period got him, or a colleague. 
> 
> Finally, I am not sure if this is anything that adds light but there is a wonderful pen portrait of Bickerstaff available on google books from an unnamed cornet during the mutiny, he is described as being vain and egotistical beyond belief!  It might be the kind of man to buy a flash and unusual sword!


Ian, 

I have identied a portrait of Bickerstaff printed in "Those Terrible Grey Horses: An Illustrated History of the Royal Scots ..." By Stephen Wood.

It does seem to show a 3 bar hilt although it looks to me to be curved rather than straight.  The grip of the sword is also shown edge on but due to the poor resolution of the image in Google books its hard to say whether there is enough detail to identify a patent tang.  Does anyone have a high resolution copy of this portrait? 

Lieutenant-Colonel robert Bickerstaff, 6th dragoon guards, oil on canvas, Artist unknown.

Unfortunately I can't locate the pen drawing of Bickerstaff you refer to or the description of him. It sounds rather amusing.

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## IMoran

> Ian, 
> 
> I have identied a portrait of Bickerstaff printed in "Those Terrible Grey Horses: An Illustrated History of the Royal Scots ..." By Stephen Wood.
> 
> It does seem to show a 3 bar hilt although it looks to me to be curved rather than straight.  The grip of the sword is also shown edge on but due to the poor resolution of the image in Google books its hard to say whether there is enough detail to identify a patent tang.  Does anyone have a high resolution copy of this portrait? 
> 
> Lieutenant-Colonel robert Bickerstaff, 6th dragoon guards, oil on canvas, Artist unknown.
> 
> Unfortunately I can't locate the pen drawing of Bickerstaff you refer to or the description of him. It sounds rather amusing.


Hi James,
I have no idea on the image, but I think there are other versions of it on google.
The link below might work:
https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=...#8220;&f=false
If it doesn’t work I searched google books for “Major Bickerstaff “ and found the extract above in ‘The History of the British Cavalry 1816-1919’
It did make me laugh!
Kind Regards
Ian

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## james.elstob

Wow, he doesn't pull any punches! It's strange to read something so candid and a reminder that all these people  we research are just a bunch of random humans with the usual flaws and faults.

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## james.elstob

I am now informed that an 1821 pattern, 3 bar (non Wilkinson) patent hilt  attributed to Robert Baring is known to exist which, on the balance of probabilities rules him out of the running with my Wilkinson example. 

And then there were 4....

Richard Boulton (appt. 1835) 7th Bengal light Cav. retired March 1857

Ronald Bayne (appt. 1845) Surgeon 1st sind irregular horse. 

Robert Bickerstaff (1844) 6th DG. 

Robert Blair (1853) 9th lancers.

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## JordanPL

I really don't want to throw a 'spanner' into the works, but must we not consider that this could also be a Royal Artillery sword?

And before anyone shouts me down with regards the Royal Artillery Regimental etching which should be on the blade, I have a Wilkinson Patent Hilt made for the Royal Artillery (as documented on the Proof Page) dated to July 1855 which doesn’t have the Royal Artillery Regimental motif.

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## Will Mathieson

http://www.swordforum.com/vb4/showth...n+blade+makers
post #9 explains the patent and dates, also Wilkinson and Reeves connection.

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## james.elstob

> http://www.swordforum.com/vb4/showth...n+blade+makers
> post #9 explains the patent and dates, also Wilkinson and Reeves connection.


I was just trawling through that thread myself last night Will! 




> You are correct that Reeves patented the Patent Tang in 1853 on which the 1853 Pattern Cavalry Trooper's sword was based.
> Now on to Wilkinson and Reeves. 
> John Latham, Henry Wilkinson’s Manager at Wilkinson & Son visited Birmingham and toured Charles Reeves’s factory on Wednesday 11th October 1854, he noted in his diary:
> _Started for Birmingham by GW Rail-reached about 3. Went direct to the Stork and dined and then went to Reeves’s who received us very heartily.  Went over his factory and saw many things amongst the rest his Grindery which was the most diabolical plan I ever saw._ 
> There was a connection between Wilkinsons and Reeves at this time, in fact *Henry Wilkinsons Proving machine and blade forging was at Issac Hebberd's premises in Air Street  with the other work and sword mounting,etching and finishing at 27 Pall Mall. In 1853 Charles Reeves bought Hebberd and from the Proof Stubs, Wilkinsons blades continued to be proved there during 1854 at least.*


I wonder if Reeves' purchase of Hebberd's where Wilkinsons blades were forged in 1853 might have heralded the start of Wilkinson making solid tang blades. The relative scarcity of Wilkinsons without the 'Patent Solid Tang' wording might be accounted for by that portion being made after the 1853 purchase of hebberd's but before the granting of the patent in October 1853.

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## james.elstob

> I really don't want to throw a 'spanner' into the works, but must we not consider that this could also be a Royal Artillery sword?
> 
> And before anyone shouts me down with regards the Royal Artillery Regimental etching which should be on the blade, I have a Wilkinson Patent Hilt made for the Royal Artillery (as documented on the Proof Page) dated to July 1855 which doesn’t have the Royal Artillery Regimental motif.


I think it must be considered given your evidence and a trawl through the forum finds other references to early R.A. examples not having the full etching we would expect on later examples. 

Would an R.A. officer chose a straight blade though? Don't royal artillery swords still use a curved 1845 blade today?

Also Jordan did your guy remain in the artillery? Perhaps he had half an eye on moving to another branch?

My knowledge of R.A. is limited so I welcome more info on this possibility.

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## james.elstob

> I wonder if Reeves' purchase of Hebberd's where Wilkinsons blades were forged in 1853 might have heralded the start of Wilkinson making solid tang blades. The relative scarcity of Wilkinsons without the 'Patent Solid Tang' wording might be accounted for by that portion being made after the 1853 purchase of hebberd's but before the granting of the patent in October 1853.


Which year by the way would also coincide with a change from Wilkinson, James & Son to Wilkinson & Son.  The first change in name for 35 years.

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## Matt Easton

Straight or curved doesn't help pin this to any particular branch of service, any officer could order whatever blade they liked. I have special order blades for cavalry, infantry, artillery, engineers, navy etc. 
So this absolutely could be for an artillery officer, though the odds are less likely, having no RA or RHA markings. Not impossible though. FYI, I have a pre-numbered Wilkinson non-regulation Royal Horse Artillery sword with full RHA markings.

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## james.elstob

Regarding dating of the first Wilkinson patent tang, are there not Wilkinson catalogues extant from pre 1854?

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## Matt Easton

No numbered proof books before 1854, because there were no numbers to record.

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## james.elstob

Not proof books, but sales catalogues?

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## james.elstob

It's arrived, nothing new to report, except for the quality, wow! What a beautifully balanced sword for 1027 grams




It's the first Wilkinson full tang I've had my hands on but the finesse in the manufacturing is obvious. 

Here it is in comparison with a Pillin 1821 LC (1023g) where the tang is visibly chunkier and the sword handles like a tank in comparison.  Also lined up along side another unknown maker example for comparison on tang thickness but this is a short naval toledo blade so incomparable handling wise.

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## Will Mathieson

All nice swords. The Wilkinson should have a leather lined scabbard. I could use the scabbard but never find them without a sword inside.

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