# Communities > Antique Arms & Armour Community > Antique & Military Sword Forum >  Indian Mutiny Sword - Just!

## james.elstob

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## james.elstob

I've moved my initial message from above to here as there was some problem with the initial post that wouldn't let me edit out my annoying typos.  I've also checked back in my notes and find that I knew all along that he was 17 not 18 so I have changed this too.   


Hi all, 

As this is my first sword identified to a specific officer, I thought I would share my research.  There may be more information sources out there but I feel like i’ve got a broad outline now.   This is my first time reading about the Indian Mutiny so please bear it in mind that I am not claiming to be an expert and I am making some guesses and assumptions.

The sword was purchased at auction, advertised as a George V Naval sword but it was obvious from images that it was an 1822 infantry sword with the gothic hilt with folding guard suggested it was more likely to be earlier than George V.  As suspected when it arrived it had Victoria's "VR" blade etching and cypher.

Not mentioned by the auction house was that it was a Wilkinson made numbered blade (8429) which pinned the year down to 1857.  Because of the blade etching and the information identified below I haven't applied for the Wilkinson records.  It seems pretty conclusive who the sword was owned by.   Etched on the blade in its own cartouche was the name “Herbert W Irons”. 

My Initial enquiries identified an officer of this name in the London Regimental Territorial Force in 20th century; however because of the year of manufacture of the sword a more likely candidate seemed to be an Ensign serving in India in 1858.  

The first I found of him was a report of his death, aged 47 on 26th May 1858 (other sources say 20th May ) at Camp Bustee (now Basti) in the Gruckpor region .   I was very confused about finding a 47 year old Ensign and initially speculated that he may have came thought the ranks but this didn’t seem to fit with the fact that he was also identified as an officer of HEICS.   I later discovered another source document where the age is given as 17 so it seems that age 47 was simply a transcription error.   There are many other similar discrepancies found in various online resources apparently reporting from the same original source, so it appears that errors are common. 

With the more likely age of 17, I was able to identify Herbert William Irons as the eldest son of Rev W. J. Irons, Vicar of Brompton, Middlesex and Anne Irons, born in 1840, baptised in 1841.  

I subsequently found reference to him in the Radley College archives, confirming him as an 'Old Radleian'.  

_Irons, Herbert William.  Born c.1840.  Son of Rev. William Josiah Irons, Vicar of Brompton and Prebendary of St Paul’s Cathedral, London. Entered Radley 1849.  He was awarded one of the first Decimal places – a scheme devised by Singleton and Sewell for every tenth boy to enter the school to be educated for free as a gift to God.  He rowed for the VIII in 1856.  He left Radley in 1856 and joined the East India Company Service in 1857.  He served in four engagements during the rebellion.  He died of fever in India on 26th May 1858
_
HEICS records show he was accepted as an HEICS Cadet in 1856/57.  I understand that the application for the cadetship can be obtained for a small fee but I have not applied for this, not sure how much information it will give. 

A Mr Irons (The only "Irons" in 1857) is found in HEICS Embarkation Lists to have departed from Gravesend on 6th September 1857, sailing by HEICS ship Prince of Wales arriving Calcutta 6th January 2016.  His route cross country to Gruckpor is a thereafter a mystery. 

A notice of death in the Bombay Times recorded him as having been in service with left wing of HM 13th Light Infantry although how, when and where he came to be attached to this regiment is unclear.

In 1856 the 13th were based at Clonmel but recorded as operating from Gibraltar then South Africa before serving in India in 1857 although how and when they arrived I have not yet identified.

Dispatches state that the left wing of HM 13th joined the Saran Field Force under  Brig. Francis Rowcroft at or near Amorha after 5th March 1858 and before the "end of April".   It is clear however that they took part in actions from as early as 17th April and there are multiple fascinating dispatches reproduced in the London Gazette about the actions of this force which included at the time the Pearl Naval Brigade.

The information from Radley College suggests he took part in 4 engagements although it does not specify which, and  I have no knowledge on the source of that information.  However from 17th April to his death there were several engagements involving men of 13th left wing in which he certainly could have taken part, including Tilga, Jamoulee, Kaptangunge, Nuggur and Puchewas.

Regarding his death from “effects of fever”, of interest is a dispatch from Cpt. Edward Sotheby of Pearl Naval Brigade, dated 1st May 1858 at a time when they were serving with the 13th in the Saran Field Force.   It reads "I am sorry to report that my men and officer's are much suffering from fever".  It seems probable that the whole of the Saran Field Force was similarly suffering.  

It seems that at the outset of his life and career; after drawing his sword in anger 4 times, poor Ensign Irons has succumbed to fever.   His still new sword has probably been returned with his possessions to his grieving family, ultimately ending up rusty and unloved, until it landed in my collection.

My research continues and I am currently seeking further information about the whereabouts and actions of Left wing of the 13th prior to their arrival in Amorha.   I'd like, if at all possible to identify where Ensign Irons has joined them and trace his route from Calcutta to Camp Bustee.

I know that at the same time as the left wing were in Gruckpore there are other units of the 13th in action under Lord Mark Kerr around Azimghur so presumably this was the right wing.   I have not been able to identify when the left and right wing of the force diverged. 

I have also found an earlier reference to the 13th being in the Fattehpore region on 14th December 1857 where they formed part of a detachment under Col. GR  Barker R.A. sent to destroy the Villages of Surkunder (now Sarkandi) and Laton (unknown). 

Their presence in the Fattehpore region In mid December suggests to me that the 13th must have arrived in India at least as early as mid November.   As a comparison, the Pearl Naval Brigade took 25 days to travel from Calcutta to Dinapur by paddle steamer and Surkunder is an additional 254km farther away.

I'll post a couple of images of the sword when I've had time to clean it up a little.  However if anyone can suggest further relevant source material i'd be grateful. 

One thing is confusing me about this sword.   As an HEICS officer i’m a little confused by why he would have purchased a Sword with the Monarch’s cypher.  I was under the impression that the HEICS used their own cipher.  Am I incorrect?

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## Will Mathieson

Great find! I know in the Crimea deceased officers belongings were sometimes auctioned off and the funds sent to their families. Possibly this sword was auctioned and later owned by another officer in India? The blade appears wider at the ricasso than average and could be a better sword for use against tulwars.
Can you supply measurements and a full photo? Possibly the Wilkinson proof page will note the blade to be special?

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## L. Braden

From The Indian News, July 15, 1858, casualty list: "At Camp Bustee, May 26, Ens. Herbert W. Irons, H.E.I.C.S., doing duty with left wing of H.M.'s 13th Lt. Inf., aged 17."
In 1857, newly-arrived Company officers were commonly assigned either to Royal or non-mutinous units when those to which they were originally posted had mutinied.

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## james.elstob

Will, 

Here are more images.  The blade is 32 1/2" long and 1 1/8"at the ricasso. 

I don't recall how this compares to standard blades off the top of my head.  It does feel like a heavy substantial sword but the only other 1822 I own is pipe back with a broken blade so difficult to judge weight.

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## james.elstob

> From The Indian News, July 15, 1858, casualty list: "At Camp Bustee, May 26, Ens. Herbert W. Irons, H.E.I.C.S., doing duty with left wing of H.M.'s 13th Lt. Inf., aged 17."
> In 1857, newly-arrived Company officers were commonly assigned either to Royal or non-mutinous units when those to which they were originally posted had mutinied.


Hi 

It didn't occur to me that he must have been officially assigned to a native regiment.   Would that still have happened after the news of the Mutiny reached home?  Information would have been scarce and out of date so the HEICS could not have known a full picture of which regiments had mutinied.

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## james.elstob

> Great find! I know in the Crimea deceased officers belongings were sometimes auctioned off and the funds sent to their families. Possibly this sword was auctioned and later owned by another officer in India?




I also forgot about the practice of auctioning of possessions of dead servicemen so perhaps this sword did continue in India with another officer.   

I see that there were plenty of promotions to Ensign gazetted for the 13th foot with the incumbents having been killed in action (or promoted for the same reason) .   And new Ensigns need swords! 

It could have seen a great deal more action than young Herbert!

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## L. Braden

According to The Indian News of Jan. 28, 1858, Irons was officially intended for appointment to an unspecified regt. of Bengal Native Infantry on 16 Sept. 1857, but had yet to arrive in India. Usually, a definite assignment was made after the officer arrived in India. The Quarterly Army List of Her Majesty's British Forces on the Bengal Establishment (1859) confirms this by indicating that he was intended for appointment to an unspecified "N.I." on 16 Sept. 1857.

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## L. Braden

P.S. By the time that he arrived in India, the non-mutinous units (both regular and irregular) were evidently already fully officered, which explains why he was attached to the 13th, which evidently had a vacancy. This was common practice at the time, and necessitated by the emergency. No officer willing to fight was turned away! Some even formed units of their own, accompanied by civilian volunteers.

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## Will Mathieson

James the sword has a substantial blade being 1 1/8" wide. Medium bladed Wilkinsons were 1 inch wide. These fullered blades were also heavier then the pipe backed version.
When new your sword with gilt guard and black leather hilt liner would have been impressive and still is.

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## james.elstob

> According to The Indian News of Jan. 28, 1858, Irons was officially intended for appointment to an unspecified regt. of Bengal Native Infantry on 16 Sept. 1857, but had yet to arrive in India. Usually, a definite assignment was made after the officer arrived in India. The Quarterly Army List of Her Majesty's British Forces on the Bengal Establishment (1859) confirms this by indicating that he was intended for appointment to an unspecified "N.I." on 16 Sept. 1857.


Hi, 

Thanks for this additional information. much appreciated.  I'm surprised that he is recorded as not having arrived on 28th January '58.  It is possible that the Mr Irons recorded as arriving on 6th January '58 on the 'Prince of Wales' was someone else however I am more inclined to believe it was him and that that the Bombay times report is erroneous on this point.






> James the sword has a substantial blade being 1 1/8" wide. Medium bladed Wilkinsons were 1 inch wide. These fullered blades were also heavier then the pipe backed version.
> When new your sword with gilt guard and black leather hilt liner would have been impressive and still is.


Hi Will, 

Good to know,  It seems like he has embarked to India after news of the Mutiny had arrived in England and so will have left  expecting to see some action and could well have specified a more substantial blade.  I understand that the HW proof slug identifies this as Wilkinson's 'Best proof'.   I have decided to apply for the Wilkinson proof record just out of interest to see whether the sword was produced for him before or after he knew of the Mutiny.  The serial number would tend to suggest later in 1857.

After a bit of cleaning I also realised that the serial number was 8429 (not 8428).

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## John Hart

Nice early Wilkinson - great find, James!  Does the blade show any signs of sharpening?

John

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## james.elstob

Hi John, 

Yes it does, I had meant to mention that.  It still remains sharp to a degree.  There is a definite and very tidy bevel evident on the true edge  I'm away from the sword at the minute but from memory it starts about 5 inches from the ricasso, i'll add to this post when I get home to clarify.   

It has also been sharpened on the ????? (what is that reverse part of the blade called near the tip?  I want to call it the 'yelman' but I think that might be specifically something else.)

An interesting thought occurred to me a little while ago about whether a modern forensic kit could ever identify traces of blood on a sword of this age.  Especially where the original leather washer is retained which could have trapped a lot of goo.   A quick search on the internet found test kits for sale for an affordable amount ..... hmmm!  Watch this space!!

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## Juan J. Perez

Hi, James. That would be an early _Crime Scene Investigation_ , indeed! 

I remember now an even earlier case. In a book by Oakeshott he told us about a particular medieval sword that could had seen action in a battle between Swiss and Teutonic forces. That claim was a long shot, of course, but he split open the original wooden grip (I wouldn't have done that at all, but this sir was quite a straightforward man!), probably for no good reason, but he found inside remains of a substance that at the end  resulted to be blood. 

A rather gruesome testimony of what a sword was intended to do...

Best,
JJ

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## John Hart

I think the "re-used by another officer" sounds plausible, and would explain the re-hilting (may be worth checking the pommel nut to see if it looks like it's been disturbed during its lifetime as that would be extra supporting evidence). Otherwise if Irons had been accepted by the HEIC as a cadet, was always destined to serve with the HEIC, and had not previously served in the Queen's forces (eg in the Militia), I see no reason why he would have bought a sword with a VR cypher.

The practice of auctioning off personal effects (via Committees of Adjustment) definitely hapened in India too, and was a way of sending money home to the deceased's family, often to offset the price of the commission which an officer might have purchased (though as a sponsored cadet the latter case obviously wouldn't apply to Irons).  This is an extract from a letter from a friend of one of "my" officers, John Hudson, who was killed at Gungeree, also during the Mutiny:




> A Committee of Adjustment has not yet been appointed but when it is I will speak to the President & take(?) I may think(?)  to  in remembrance of one so dear, [to] be kept & forwarded to England when the country becomes more settled.


I did a quick Google search, and it appears that Committees of Adjustment were still being enshrined, for example, in the Bangladesh Army Act of 1952, much later than our period - see this link:

http://bdlaws.minlaw.gov.bd/sections...ctions_id=9067

It seems the process was originally intended to ensure that the dead officer's debts were paid, but naturally also needed to take in the disposal of his personal effects.

John

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## L. Braden

From Historical Record of the Thirteenth, First Somersetshire, or Prince Albert's Regiment of Light Infantry (1867): 
Left wing at Benares, 9 Feb. 1858.
18 Feb., to Azimghur.
24 Feb., marched round the district without opposition.
7 Mar., returned to Azimghur.
13 Mar., marched into Goruckpore district to strengthen Sarun Field Force under Brig. Rowcroft, which it joined at Amorah on 26 Mar.
17 Apr., Sarun FF engaged with enemy near village of Belwah.
25 Apr., SFF again engaged on nearly same ground.
27 Apr., SFF marched to Captaingunge.
29 Apr., 6 m. from Captaingunge, enemy defeated by column under Maj. Cox, c.o. of left wing of 13th LI.
8 May, left wing marched to Bustee. 
No further action until 9 June.

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## L. Braden

P.S. The left wing landed at Calcutta from Port Elizabeth on 19 Jan. 1858, thence to Benares on same day, arriving on 9 Feb. No time was wasted in those critical days!

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## gordon byrne

> I think the "re-used by another officer" sounds plausible, and would explain the re-hilting (may be worth checking the pommel nut to see if it looks like it's been disturbed during its lifetime as that would be extra supporting evidence). Otherwise if Irons had been accepted by the HEIC as a cadet, was always destined to serve with the HEIC, and had not previously served in the Queen's forces (eg in the Militia), I see no reason why he would have bought a sword with a VR cypher.
> 
> The practice of auctioning off personal effects (via Committees of Adjustment) definitely hapened in India too, and was a way of sending money home to the deceased's family, often to offset the price of the commission which an officer might have purchased (though as a sponsored cadet the latter case obviously wouldn't apply to Irons).  This is an extract from a letter from a friend of one of "my" officers, John Hudson, who was killed at Gungeree, also during the Mutiny:
> 
> 
> 
> I did a quick Google search, and it appears that Committees of Adjustment were still being enshrined, for example, in the Bangladesh Army Act of 1952, much later than our period - see this link:
> 
> http://bdlaws.minlaw.gov.bd/sections...8§ions_id=9067
> ...


Not all East India Company officers carried swords with the EIC crest on the blade and/or hilt, therefore the hilt (with VR cypher) may be original.

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## Will Mathieson

Typically  Wilkinson swords VR in the oval is pierced in more places then this particular guard. This may have been purposely made to prevent a swords tip from intruding into the guard and hand.
The minimal piercing of the "VR" it also strengthened this central area. The Wilkinson blade proof page may shed some light as to this and the blade itself. 
Well worth the few $$$ for this, what I believe is critical information.

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## james.elstob

> P.S. The left wing landed at Calcutta from Port Elizabeth on 19 Jan. 1858, thence to Benares on same day, arriving on 9 Feb. No time was wasted in those critical days!


Below is from dispatches of Col. G. R. Barker,  Royal Artillery  printed in the London Gazette issue number 22100, page 909.  Dispatches dated 17th December 1857 at Futtehpore. 

I had previously wondered if this was an error.   It seems so if your information is correct about the regiments arrival on 19th January 1858.
_
I  again  sent  detachments  of  Her  Majesty's  13th  Light  Infantry  and Madras  Rifles,  on  either  side  of  the  road,  to  the villages  of  Surkunder  and  Laton,  both  of  which places  had  become notorious  for  harbouring  mutineers  and  budmashes,  who  were  continually  plundering  and  murdering  the  inhabitants  of  the  neighbouring  villages.  These  were  both  destroyed,  and a  few  armed  men  shot  down  in  each.  These  detachments  then  rejoined  the  column  at  Jummulmour._

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## james.elstob

> Not all East India Company officers carried swords with the EIC crest on the blade and/or hilt, therefore the hilt (with VR cypher) may be original.


Hi Gordon, 

Do you mean some EIC officers deliberately purchased swords without the EIC crest or is it just that for one reason or another they ended up carrying a different sword in the field?

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## james.elstob

> I think the "re-used by another officer" sounds plausible, and would explain the re-hilting (may be worth checking the pommel nut to see if it looks like it's been disturbed during its lifetime as that would be extra supporting evidence). Otherwise if Irons had been accepted by the HEIC as a cadet, was always destined to serve with the HEIC, and had not previously served in the Queen's forces (eg in the Militia), I see no reason why he would have bought a sword with a VR cypher.


John,

The pommel nut shows no evidence of tampering however I'm not sure what would give away that it had been rehilted.

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## L. Braden

> Below is from dispatches of Col. G. R. Barker,  Royal Artillery  printed in the London Gazette issue number 22100, page 909.  Dispatches dated 17th December 1857 at Futtehpore. 
> 
> I had previously wondered if this was an error.   It seems so if your information is correct about the regiments arrival on 19th January 1858.
> _
> I  again  sent  detachments  of  Her  Majesty's  13th  Light  Infantry  and Madras  Rifles,  on  either  side  of  the  road,  to  the villages  of  Surkunder  and  Laton,  both  of  which places  had  become notorious  for  harbouring  mutineers  and  budmashes,  who  were  continually  plundering  and  murdering  the  inhabitants  of  the  neighbouring  villages.  These  were  both  destroyed,  and a  few  armed  men  shot  down  in  each.  These  detachments  then  rejoined  the  column  at  Jummulmour._


According to the official record, pp. 139-40, only the HQ and 400 of the 13th landed at Calcutta on 3 Oct. 1857 - the rest of the regiment, including the left wing, being temporarily left behind at the Cape of Good Hope because of insufficient transports. It was this detachment that formed part of the column under Col. Barker. As stated, the left wing landed at Calcutta on 19 Jan. 1858.

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## MikeShowers

James,
What a great find!  Isn't it nice when they put their full name on the blade rather than a set of hard to read initials.




> James the sword has a substantial blade being 1 1/8" wide. Medium bladed Wilkinsons were 1 inch wide. These fullered blades were also heavier then the pipe backed version.
> When new your sword with gilt guard and black leather hilt liner would have been impressive and still is.


To expand a little on what Will has said, I've found Wilkinson sized their standard blades like this: Regulation Cavalry 1 1/4" wide, Medium Cavalry 1 1/8", Regulation Infantry 1 1/8", Medium Infantry 1". Solid Hilts, at least Cavalry ones, are around 1 3/8" wide.
Cheers,
Mike

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## james.elstob

Just a thought. Did EIC swords with an EIC crested hilt also have the EIC crest etched on the blade too? 

Mine has VR etched on both sides of the blade. Could this be an indication that it never had an EIC crested hilt and that the VR hilt is original? 

Also I have found group photographs of fourth term EIC cadets in 1857 in the NAM collection.  It's possible that one of them is Cadet Irons.  Perhaps my sword is even in the photograph!  They are both from Addiscombe although I know there was another college at Gravesend and I'm not sure which he was at. 

I would have counted myself lucky to have found only a fraction of the information I now have, I never dreamt that I could find a photograph. I feel like I've been very lucky. 

http://www.nam.ac.uk/online-collecti...961-07-66-1-52

http://www.nam.ac.uk/online-collecti...61-07-66-1-132

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## james.elstob

> Hi, 
> 
> Thanks for this additional information. much appreciated.  I'm surprised that he is recorded as not having arrived on 28th January '58.  It is possible that the Mr Irons recorded as arriving on 6th January '58 on the 'Prince of Wales' was someone else however I am more inclined to believe it was him and that that the Bombay times report is erroneous on this point.


More from Indian Times reported 20th March 1858, (page 204)

_Mr. H. W. Irons; date of arr. at Fort William, 7th Jan. 1858._

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## L. Braden

Why this? - From The Indian News, Jan. 28, 1858, re Bengal Infantry appointments: "Ensigns W. F. Partleman and H. W. Irons, not arr., 16th Sept. 1857" [date of appointment]. And why does it matter exactly what date in Jan. he arrived?

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## L. Braden

P.S. The first action that he was possibly engaged in didn't occur until 17 April, and the left wing of the 13th was engaged in only three (not four) engagements up until the time of his death. Considering that he died of fever, we don't even know if he was present at all or any of these actions. He certainly isn't mentioned in dispatches. And speaking of dispatches, I have read them all; and neither the left wing (which was armed with Enfields) nor any other infantry unit was engaged in close combat. British firepower and fear of the bayonet determined this, and all enemy casualties were from missiles. That means that Irons' sword was never used in combat.

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## MikeShowers

> Considering that he died of fever, we don't even know if he was present at all or any of these actions.


Good point.  After reading some first hand accounts of officers during the Mutiny, it seems malarial fever was common.  If Irons had malaria he could have been sick on and off for months before he was so worn out he either died from malaria or some other malady.

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## L. Braden

Indeed, Mike! In fact, we don't even know how long it took for him to be assigned to the 13th once he arrived in India; nor do we know how long it took for him to proceed upcountry to join the left wing. The poor fellow may never have seen active service at all!

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## james.elstob

> Why this? - From The Indian News, Jan. 28, 1858, re Bengal Infantry appointments: "Ensigns W. F. Partleman and H. W. Irons, not arr., 16th Sept. 1857" [date of appointment]. And why does it matter exactly what date in Jan. he arrived?


Hi L, 

I'm assuming that when they published the article in January they didn't have information of his arrival and that when they published the latter article in March the correct information was available to them. 

I'm interested which date he arrived because I see it as all part of the story of the sword.  Antique objects meeting personal history fitting into global history! If the details weren't of interest I could have stopped at reading his name on the blade!

3 or 4 engagements?  I suppose it's a question of semantics.  I'm satisfied that I've found a record of four dispatches describing engagements taking place with men of 13th present in the field, in strengths of 72, 150, 246 and 250.  In at least one of them I agree that the infantry probably did not factor having failed to come up with the enemy.  It appears that the units engaging the enemy were cavalry and artillery but  I still find it of interest.   The men seeing their cavalry hacking at mutinous troops.  Smelling the smoke of the artillery fire.  Doing their best to overtake an enemy force,  several times their strength knowing that they could be in combat any moment.   It's fascinating! 

Can I be sure he was present on any of these instances?  No.  Was the sword used in close combat by Irons? Probably not.   Was it present in the field when combat took place?  Much more likely,  but again it's speculation only.   I'd be foolish to ignore the information from the records of Radley College without knowing the source of that information.   Passed on from personal letters to the family perhaps?  

Did the sword continue in India with another young officer of the 13th, later to be involved in further engagements after Irons' death?  We will probably never know.   

For me it's the act of researching such minutiae that I find interesting.   Perhaps a touch of OCD?

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## james.elstob

> Indeed, Mike! In fact, we don't even know how long it took for him to be assigned to the 13th once he arrived in India; nor do we know how long it took for him to proceed upcountry to join the left wing. The poor fellow may never have seen active service at all!



If irons arrived at Fort William on 7th January and the 13th left wing arrived 19th January and set out 9th February it seems likely he travelled with them IMO.

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## MikeShowers

> If irons arrived at Fort William on 7th January and the 13th left wing arrived 19th January and set out 9th February it seems likely he travelled with them IMO.


I think that's a reasonable assumption.  You say his death was reported at camp Bustee (Basti).  Calcutta to Basti is something like 850km (525 miles) so it is probable that he got sick sometime en route, otherwise he most likely would have been left at Fort Williiam if he was ill when he arrived.

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## John Hart

Hi James,

All the HEIC-hilted infantry swords I've seen have the lion repeated on the blade, but they're not all that common so others may have a more comprehensive view.  Those Addiscombe images are very good, though, aren't they?  The other HEIC school was Haileybury, which trained the civilian members of the service ("writers").

John

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## james.elstob

> I think that's a reasonable assumption.  You say his death was reported at camp Bustee (Basti).  Calcutta to Basti is something like 850km (525 miles) so it is probable that he got sick sometime en route, otherwise he most likely would have been left at Fort Williiam if he was ill when he arrived.


Hi Mike, 

I'm no medical expert, but like most people I prefer to get all my Medical advice from Google anyway!   So Google suggests that Malaria can kill you within days or weeks once symptoms develop  after about 7-10 days.   If it was Malaria that killed Irons and we know now that this can be caused by mosquito bites.  This could have occurred at any part of his time in India.

I'd prefer to believe that if it was Malaria, that he contracted this after arrival at Bastee, roughly around the same time as Captain Southerby of the Pearl Naval Brigade reported problems in his dispatch (1st May).    Capt Southerby places the blame on the medical problems for having been unprepared to such a long deployment in the field, implying that the problems have arisen only after being in the field some time.  Of course Iron's experience with the 13th is not the same as that of the Pearl Naval Brigade.





> Hi James,
> 
> All the HEIC-hilted infantry swords I've seen have the lion repeated on the blade, but they're not all that common so others may have a more comprehensive view.  Those Addiscombe images are very good, though, aren't they?  The other HEIC school was Haileybury, which trained the civilian members of the service ("writers").
> 
> John


Hi John, 

I thought I was on to something when I found a load of photograph albums in the Radley College Archives online.  Sadly however there are images of the rowing viii in 1857 but not in 1856 when Irons was a member (so close!).  I'd love to be able to pick him out of the photographs from Addiscombe.  The source of those images will be my next port of call.

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## Mark Barton

I have what I believe to be two HEIC maritime swords in my collection. On one of those, a mameluke, the only indicator that it is HEIC rather than RN is the lions on the blade engraving - nothing on the hilt.

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## L. Braden

Howdy, James!
I don't mean to be a spoilsport - just trying to sort out fact from opinion like yourself. 
The Radley College info most likely came from his family, who would naturally not want to minimize his service. But who knows?
Yes, it's just possible that his sword was used by a surviving officer; but such important items were usually sent home with other effects. But who knows?
Considering the red tape in Calcutta and the "primitive" traveling facilitities beyond the railway depot at Raniganj, presupposing that he didn't travel by steamer, it's hard to calculate how long it might have taken him to reach his destination.
Finally, not every company of the left wing was engaged in every conflict; and when they were engaged, it was usually as skirmishers (which is what light infantry traditionally did). And even if Irons was in the field, we don't know what company he was attached to in order to determine what conflict(s) he may have participated in.
Bottom line: there are too many unanswered and perhaps unanswerable questions!
Anyway, Cheers & Best Regards! (And Good Luck finding any additional info!)

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## L. Braden

P.S. The number of engagements in which Irons may have participated comes from the official record and dispatches, but 2 separate actions on one day in the same area could raise the number from 3 to 4. As you say, "semantics"!

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## L. Braden

P.P.S. However, in re-reading the records, I can't find that two separate battles were fought in the same area on the same day - just separate phases of the same battle! Semantics :Confused:

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## L. Braden

> If irons arrived at Fort William on 7th January and the 13th left wing arrived 19th January and set out 9th February it seems likely he travelled with them IMO.


Left wing arrived in Calcutta on 19 Jan., left for Benares on same day, and arrived in Benares on 9 Feb.
No doubt you're right about the delay in info re The Indian News record of his arrival.

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## L. Braden

P.S. Just checked; and indeed, the news from Calcutta was as of 24 Dec. 1857. Odd that I can't find any mention of his arrival in Allen's Indian Mail, which recorded such arrivals.

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## L. Braden

According to his obituary in The Spectator of July 24, 1858, he died "from the effects of fever brought on by severe service ... in his 18th year." Get that: "severe service". Odd that nobody seemed to know exactly how old he was - the eldest son of a vicar, no less!

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## james.elstob

> P.P.S. However, in re-reading the records, I can't find that two separate battles were fought in the same area on the same day - just separate phases of the same battle! Semantics


I've entered below the editions and pages numbers of the London gazette if you're at all interested in casting an eye over them. I have to admit that I was taking information (from memory) from at least 4 different authors sometimes describing the same actions but from different approaches and I had to deduce a lot from counting forward of dates "the next day we..., at midnight we..." etc.

I take your point about the possibility that he was involved in 4 might have been surmised by people at home.   It could easily have been based on the same information as we are using now! In fact I actually agree that is a more likely scenario in the balance of probability, but I still can't rule out some specific knowledge on the colleges part. 

Anyway here are my reference points from the London Gazette.  I'd welcome a second opinion. 

22153 p2919
22154 p2956
22158 p3129
22213 p5560

I've now identified more info about when the left wing arrived : - 

Historical record of the Thirteenth, first Somersetshire, or Prince Albert's regiment of light infantry

Thomas Carter
1867

"On the 13th the left wing were marched into the Goruckpore district to strengthen the "Sarun Field Force", which they joined at Amorha on 26th March."

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## L. Braden

Which I recorded on 7-01 in my list of dates and events.

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## james.elstob

> Which I recorded on 7-01 in my list of dates and events.



OK,  I thought I'd seen it said somewhere else,  but couldn't find it, I'm in a bit of a rush and I'm already 40 minutes late due to swords! 

NEWSFLASH:  The Wilkinson proof has now arrived,  it says....  I'll have to tell you all later what it says,  I'm literally running out the door typing this on my phone!!

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## james.elstob

So here is the Wilkinson proof entry. 



Confusing at first for an officer joining an EIC to be buying a standard infantry sword but I think a closer look offers a very plausible explanation. 

The ledger is dated 2nd September and he was due to sail 4 days later.  He could hardly oblige if they asked him to "come back next week" to get the correct EIC crested hilt and Blade. 

It seems possible that he took the closest sword which was available in stock with just enough time to etch his name onto the blade. 

That lack of time brings to mind another issue.   I note that the Addiscombe Military Seminary trained cadets over 2 years (4 terms).   If Irons didn't leave school 1856 it seems could well have been rushed through before his full 2 years.  The Wikipedia entry does say that it is possible to pass out before the full two years. 

The trouble is,  I've been unable to find him in any records of cadets in the Addiscombe archives during '56/57.  

Yet more searching ahead.

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## james.elstob

Ah, 

Thanks to this thread http://www.swordforum.com/forums/sho...er-every-blade  and in particular Robert's comments I realise that I was probably laboring under an incorrect assumption. 

As Robert points out the Wilkinson proof entry refers to proof of the blade,  not of the whole sword.   

When in the case of 8429 the ledger refers to "regulation infantry" I had assumed that meant regulation infantry blade + regulation infantry hilt.   

If the ledger description simply refers to the blade then I am back to square one with regard to whether the sword was born with an EIC hilt or a VR hilt. 

The term "screwed together..."  had suggest to my layman's mind that it referred to the sword as a whole. 

There must be other EIC orders from around the same time with the mutiny increasing the need for new officers.  It would be interesting to know what the proof pages record for those swords with close serial numbers which actually retain an EIC hilt. Would it still just record "regulation infantry" I wonder?  

Also although the sword was put together on 2nd September 1857 perhaps he had ordered it weeks in advance.  Once again the mutiny might well have caused a backlog in officers awaiting swords.   Maybe he did have time to have an EIC hilt but choose not to.   Maybe he just grabbed what they had in stock. 

One again in back to the fact that it doesn't appear to have been tampered with at the pommel and also it has the VR cypher on both sides of the blade rather than the EIC lion motif.  My gut feeling is that the sword was purchased in its current composition due to time constraints. Rather than having been subsequently re-hilted later from EIC to VR. 

I'm glad I don't have one of those boring hobbies where questions have answers!!

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## MikeShowers

> The trouble is,  I've been unable to find him in any records of cadets in the Addiscombe archives during '56/57.  
> 
> Yet more searching ahead.


I've been poking around on the fibis site and I can't find him attending Addiscombe or passing out.  Strange.  But in reading the rules of examination at the college they make a distinction about applying for Direct Cadetship, and that these persons would rank behind College Cadets passing out.  I wonder if it was possible to take the exams ("challenge" them in modern language) without having to have been studying at Addiscombe?  If this was the case than maybe such a person wouldn't have attended Addiscombe, but would still become an HEIC cadet/subaltern enroute to India.  The British Library has the Addiscombe cadet list so that might be the best route

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## Matt Easton

> According to his obituary in The Spectator of July 24, 1858, he died "from the effects of fever brought on by severe service ... in his 18th year." Get that: "severe service". Odd that nobody seemed to know exactly how old he was - the eldest son of a vicar, no less!


"In his 18th year " = 17 years old. Just as someone who is 6 months old is 'in their first year'.  :Smilie:

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## Matt Easton

Nice find James. I have quite a few Mutiny swords myself now and they are among the most fascinating to research I think.

Regarding the EIC lion badge - I have owned perhaps 8 or 10 EIC swords now, to named officers, and only one of those had the EIC lion on it. All the others used VR. It is my belief that the EIC lion was starting to be overlooked on swords by about 1850 as more and more Indian officers started adopting the VR instead. I think this matter is a bit like the '1854 pattern' issue, where it has become 'common knowledge' that the folding flap guard stopped being used in 1854, whereas in reality solid guards had been in occasional use since 1822 and folding flap guards continued to be made, even by Wilkinson, until 1859/1860.
There were gradual changes and shifts which did not always follow regulation.

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## L. Braden

> "In his 18th year " = 17 years old. Just as someone who is 6 months old is 'in their first year'.


A person who is 6 months old is indeed in their first year, but a person who is 17 years old is still in their 17th year until they turn 18, at which time they enter their 18th year. Or am I miscalculating??? :EEK!:

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## james.elstob

> According to his obituary in The Spectator of July 24, 1858, he died "from the effects of fever brought on by severe service ... in his 18th year." Get that: "severe service"


And he was a young fit guy presumably having been in the college rowing team. 




> "In his 18th year " = 17 years old. Just as someone who is 6 months old is 'in their first year'.


Of course,  good spot! 




> I've been poking around on the fibis site and I can't find him attending Addiscombe or passing out.  Strange.  But in reading the rules of examination at the college they make a distinction about applying for Direct Cadetship, and that these persons would rank behind College Cadets passing out.  I wonder if it was possible to take the exams ("challenge" them in modern language) without having to have been studying at Addiscombe?  If this was the case than maybe such a person wouldn't have attended Addiscombe, but would still become an HEIC cadet/subaltern enroute to India.  The British Library has the Addiscombe cadet list so that might be the best route


It seems that Radley college taught fencing in the 1860 perhaps there were other transferable skills which have helped him to pass as an Ensign after only 1 year and two terms.  But if that were the case it would seem reasonable that he would be registered in the rolls.   Perhaps you are right about a Direct Cadetship.   Either way,  once I have checked the cadet list I think it would probably bring me to the end of the journey. Or at least as far as I am likely to take it.   It's been fun!

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## L. Braden

If he procured his commission via the patronage system, there would not necessarily be any record of a formal military education. (The patronage system of the EIC was simply a variation of the purchase system of the British Army, and was no less controversial, even though it was not supposed to involve money; but there were plenty of under-the-counter inducements involved, if not non-monetary preferential treatment. In other words, the purchase system was straightforward and unpretentious; the patronage system, hypocritical and pretentious.)

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## L. Braden

> A person who is 6 months old is indeed in their first year, but a person who is 17 years old is still in their 17th year until they turn 18, at which time they enter their 18th year. Or am I miscalculating???


Semantics again - a confusion of chronological and natal years. Chronologically (Jan.-Dec. 1858) he was in his 18th year, but natally (birthday to birthday, 1857-8 or 1858-9) he was in his 17th year - meaning that if he died before his 18th birthday, he was still in his 17th natal year. This "in his 18th year" meaning that he was 17 may be a Britishism, because I never heard or saw it used elsewhere - not to say that it hasn't been! Every dialect has its confusing peculiarities.

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## L. Braden

Irons was evidently not a graduate of Addiscombe, because his name is not listed as a cadet in Vibart's history. In any case, the patronage system re the Indian Civil Service was evidently abolished before the Mutiny; but I can't find that it was ever abolished re the military. Also, I know of patronage appointments of those who never attended Addiscombe or any other military school; so what's with that?

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## Matt Easton

And just to emphasise my earlier point about Indian officers using VR on their swords, I have a Bengal Engineers swords here, carried through the Indian Mutiny, marked Bengal Engineers on the blade with the owner's crest, with a VR on the hilt. Oh, and another one right next to it  :Smilie:  For whatever reason, Indian Army officers were using VR rather than the HEIC lion already by 1857 and from my observation probably from about 1852-54.

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## james.elstob

His cadet papers are record in The British Library.



Perhaps these will reveal something when I get round to it.

In the meantime, I'm just going to mention one final piece of absolutely outrageous speculation just for fun.  The auction house had described this as a naval sword. After his death his sword may have been auctioned in a Committee of Adjustment. The Saran Field Force included a naval brigade....

This could have been bought by someone from the Pearl Naval Brigade and been referred to ever more familialy as a naval sword. It's not a naval pattern but... a sword is a sword after all, especially if you're a man without one who is expecting a sword fight! 

Either way I'm looking forward to reading this which arrived yesterday. The dispatches in which they feature really had a whiff of adventure about them.

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## L. Braden

Am glad that you located his cadet papers, because if he was at Addiscombe, they might contain the only record of it that any of us can find. 
From the Radley College Register, 1847-1904, p. 24:

Irons, Herbert William; left 1851.       Ob. 1858.
   I.C.S.; died of fever in camp in Indian Mutiny.

The rower of 1856 was Launcelot Charles Irons, so the other records are evidently inaccurate. According to the quoted source, HWI was at Radley from 1849 to 1851. That would have given him time to have been at Addiscombe. And Mike may have nailed it re Irons' "testing out" if he didn't actually attend classes. The "I.C.S." (Indian Civil Service) must be an error, unless we're missing something again!
Finally, I don't understand why a deceased officer's sword and other effects would be auctioned off if he had a family to send them to, as I have read in numerous accounts.

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## L. Braden

P.S. According to the Haileybury Register, he wasn't there!

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## L. Braden

It just occurred to me that perhaps his father was opposed to his becoming a military man and therefore refused to finance him therefor, so he tested out on his own and designated on his deathbed that his sword should go to another officer rather than sent home. But who knows? In that case or any other, the possibility that it went to a naval officer is not so unlikely.

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## L. Braden

Now what do you make of these contradictions:
In the Radley College Register, 1847-1923, p. 6, we read "viii 1856; left 1856; joined E.I.C.S. 1857"; and yet in the index he is listed as having entered college in 1849. Also, his brother (here spelled "Lancelot" rather than "Launcelot"): "viii 1856; left 1860"; yet in the index: 1854! I assume that "I.C.S." in the other edition is an abbreviation of EICS or East India Company Service and therefore does not mean Indian Civil Service. But who knows? In any case, this Irons mystery is the most ridiculous one that I have ever encountered; and I'm not holding my breath that the cadet papers will in any way solve it.

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## L. Braden

P.S. Even the Radley Archives, from which the two books were produced, confuse the two brothers; but since Herbert was the eldest, the 1849-51 dates may be the accurate ones for him. And for his brother: 1854-6.

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## L. Braden

No - according to the 1904 edition, "I.C.S." stands for Indian Civil Service! And then we have this in Raikes' Sicut Columbae (1897): "After him Herbert Irons came in, but not, I think, till 1856." Another confusion with younger brother? And was Radley a 2-year college or what? I haven't the patience anymore to find out. :Mad:

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## james.elstob

> Am glad that you located his cadet papers, because if he was at Addiscombe, they might contain the only record of it that any of us can find. 
> From the Radley College Register, 1847-1904, p. 24:
> 
> Irons, Herbert William; left 1851.       Ob. 1858.
>    I.C.S.; died of fever in camp in Indian Mutiny.
> 
> The rower of 1856 was Launcelot Charles Irons, so the other records are evidently inaccurate. According to the quoted source, HWI was at Radley from 1849 to 1851. That would have given him time to have been at Addiscombe. And Mike may have nailed it re Irons' "testing out" if he didn't actually attend classes. The "I.C.S." (Indian Civil Service) must be an error, unless we're missing something again!
> Finally, I don't understand why a deceased officer's sword and other effects would be auctioned off if he had a family to send them to, as I have read in numerous accounts.


Wow, there is no end to contradictory info on this guy!

So I agree that the "St. Peter's College Radley Register 1847-1897" shows that Herbert W Irons entered the college in 1849 and left in 1851.  That seems like an awfully short period.   As a note of caution before we make a judgement on which of these differing versions is likely to be correct, I would point out a caveat mentioned in the "Introductory Notes" in that same register which states: - 

_This first addition must by necessity be incomplete and inaccurate.  Corrections should be sent to ...._

Can you direct me to the evidence which identifies LC Irons as the 1856 Rowing Viii member or is it perhaps only an assumption based on WC Irons leaving in 1851 and LC Irons being the only Irons mentioned at that time?

To clear up one issue though, I am looking at a photograph of the register now and it reads H.E.I.C.S (Honourable East India Company Service) rather than just I.C.S. are you looking at a transcribed text version?  It's possibly just a transcription or text recognition error. 

I was surprised to find that also in the register is a list of "Artillery Cadetships" listing cadets connected with Woolwich, Sandhurst and one from Addiscombe although HWI is not on there.  It seems like the college was connected in some way with the various military academies.


P.S.  I hadn't seen your last two messages  when I posted this so I will go back and digest that info.

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## L. Braden

From Radley Register, 1847-1904 & 1847-1923: Athletic Record. Rowing. 1856. L.C. Irons. (Even if the 1st ed. is inaccurate, is the 2nd as well?) I already quoted the discrepancies in various dates of entry and exit. (HWI: entry, 1849; exit, 1851; entry, 1856; exit, 1856. LCI: entry, 1854; exit, 1860; entry, 1856; exit, 1860.)
According to the India Office Family History Search: HWI was born 13 July 1840 in Barkway, Herts; Bengal Cadet 1857. (L/MIL/9/242f.122.)
Also, the National Archives adds two more items from the IO Records: IOR/L/MIL/10/65/702 & IOR/L/MIL/10/67/702. I suggest that you check them out.
Abbreviation, 1st ed., I.C.S.=Indian Civil Service. 2nd ed., E.I.C.S.=? (Can't find it; could mean either East India Co. Service or East Indian Civil Service.)

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## L. Braden

P.S. It's evident that H wasn't at Radley as long as he should have been, which makes me wonder if he was expelled! He may have been the enfant terrible of the family, which was frequently the case with clergymen's sons. :EEK!:  And that may be why he ended up in the military, the ultimate destination of privileged ne'er-do-wells. (Kipling's "Gentleman Rankers" or "Black Sheep".)

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## L. Braden

To reiterate:
Radley 1st ed.: left 1851; index: entered 1849. 2nd ed.: left 1856, entered 1856; index: entered 1849. It seems to me that the 1st ed. is most accurate and that the 2nd ed. contradictorily inaccurate, especially in left and entered the same year. Can we now put an end to this nonsense re Radley?

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## james.elstob

I agree,  it's a fog of war in itself. 

If you go straight to the most modern edition of the register it seems so clear but i can't decide whether mistakes in subsequent editions are being corrected or multiplied and compounded. 

I can imagine everyone's eyes drooping at the thought of more speculation about Radley college.   Let's give it rest for a while!   I will go away and check the records at the British Library before I bore anyone to death with this. 

Thanks to everyone for all your helpful comments!

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## james.elstob

Plus I have other swords backing up behind this one crying out for some attention!

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## L. Braden

> P.S. It's evident that H wasn't at Radley as long as he should have been, which makes me wonder if he was expelled! He may have been the enfant terrible of the family, which was frequently the case with clergymen's sons. And that may be why he ended up in the military, the ultimate destination of privileged ne'er-do-wells. (Kipling's "Gentleman Rankers" or "Black Sheep".)


On second thought, there are any number of reasons why Herbie may not have finished at Radley; so I should not have suggested what I suggested. But enough is enough on this subject!

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## L. Braden

> Plus I have other swords backing up behind this one crying out for some attention!


No more inane mysteries, I hope, or I'm bowing out!

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## L. Braden

The most modern edition is NOT "so clear", because in the text it has him entering and leaving in 1856 and in the index it has him entering in 1849. I maintain that the 1st 3 editions (1897, 1904, 1912), with dates 1849-51, are most accurate. Whoever compiled the subsequent editions was evidently confounding HWI with his younger brother! Phew.
P.S. I initially thought there were only 2 editions (1904 & 1923) of the register, but today I found the rest of them on the college website. Only the latest edition has H. rowing in 1856, probably because of the evident misinformation in Raikes' book. (Raikes admitted to not being certain, but how he confounded H. with L. is a mystery.)

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## gordon byrne

Not wishing to prolong the agony however, my small contribution is in reference to the sword and not the man. 

For some while since the waves started rolling in on this post, I've been trying to locate an article I have which deals in particular with an East India Company Infantry officers sword; if my memory serves me correctly, the article was published in the Journal of Army Historical Research, and the author of the article made clear reference to the fact that, it was not necessarily "Company" policy, and not all officers in the Honourable East India Company Service, had swords etched with the EIC crest; this absence of the EIC crest would likely apply to the hilt as well.

Matt has already made reference to his Bengal Engineers sword which has no EIC crest, and in my opinion the sword could well have been made exactly as it is, and should be taken for history has left it. Best to formulate a biography with available information, and add if the future brings new light.

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## james.elstob

Thanks Gordon,   I must agree my gut feeling is that this sword had not had a hilt change.    Also I've got to say s much as I would wish It,  I think the quality of the sword indicates that it didn't continue in India for any length of time.   I reckon it was sent home after Irons death.

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## Will Mathieson

Hello James after 150+ years of corrosion and subsequent cleanings there is no way of telling from a swords condition its history. It may well have continued in India. 
I have swords that have seen time in India and are in good shape considering. It is lack of post service maintenance that usually corrodes and damages a sword.
Until they talk we'll never know for sure.

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## Richard Schenk

> I can imagine everyone's eyes drooping at the thought of more speculation about Radley college.   Let's give it rest for a while!   I will go away and check the records at the British Library before I bore anyone to death with this.


This was post 68, and now we are at 75.  There has been nothing significantly added for some time - I think a rest would be well advised!

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## Matt Easton

I agree with Will on that point. I have swords that lived through hard campaigning in the Crimea and Mutiny and for years afterwards which are in great condition because they were looked after. Whereas I have swords that were only in service for a couple of years and are battered. We'll never know what became of this sword after its officer's death, but either fate is possible. Swords and guns certainly were auctioned to other officers and there are clear examples from the Mutiny. Shebeare describes a sword that was passed down three times from officer to officer. Officers sometimes lost or broke their swords on service, as Shebeare did, and they couldn't simply go to a shop and buy a new one. Shebeare was an infantry officer but ended up carrying a cavalry sword which he found too heavy. Eventually he took to carrying a tulwar, as did many other officers.

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## L. Braden

Regarding the sword, Irons' pre-military life is irrelevant; so it's a waste of time obsessing over it. What IS relevant, regarding the sword, is his military career; and perhaps all the details regarding that can be found in the India Office archives.

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## james.elstob

Hi James,

Good write-up - love it when research into a single individual can lead to understanding of wider aspects of history.

Note that David Saul is of course Saul David(!)

As a matter of interest, was the surname of the gentleman who accompanied Irons and Bartleman on the _Prince of Wales_ spelled Wood or Woods?  I have an interest in a John Wood (no "s") who served with Havelock's Volunteer Cavalry during the Mutiny and I have very little info to date.  The date would be about right, though.

John

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## james.elstob

Hmmm, 

Hi John, 

Not sure whether anyone else is seeing the same thing but your reply seems to have overwritten my initial post.  Perhaps a Mod could look into that?  

I'll check back later and see if its corrected itself, could just be a glitch in the Matrix!

Anyway it was certainly reported as Mr Wood, no 's'.  doesn't give rank or initial, just states he, Irons and Bartleman are HEICS.  I found this on the FIBIS website in the ships manifest and also reported in Allens Indian Mail.  

https://search.fibis.org/frontis/bin...np=113&tn=3383

https://newspaperarchive.com/allens-...b-15-1858-p-8/

regards

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## L. Braden

Incidentally, in his published journal, Lt. W. O. Swanston lists "Mr. Wood, Trooper" as well as "Mr. Woods, Trooper", and that's all re either gents.

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## L. Braden

P.S. You can find some genealogical info on John Wood in "Family Records" by Ashworth P. Burke (1897), p. 636.

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## james.elstob

Copied here due to glitch

Hi everyone,

After a break I've revisited this sword and I've been able to resolve some of the uncertainty as well as identify further information, including a hint at the swords history after the death of Ensign Irons. I also found some interesting stuff surrounding the life of a soldier in India, the mutiny and its effects at home. I hope what I've included below is of interest and not too tedious.

For those with an interested in the Mutiny in general, Radley College archives include correspondence between pupil; Gerald Talbot (son of Lord Canning's Secretary) and his parents. Many boys boarding at the school had families in India during the Mutiny, including William; brother of Annie Jennings who was massacred with her father at the Red Fort in Delhi and whose alleged rape stirred up public outrage when raised in Parliament. Not just the pupils suffered; one of the Dons at the school had a brother; Captain Gibbings murdered at Sultanpur by Native Police.

The accounts can be found at the following links.

https://100radleyobjects.wordpress.c...ter-home-1857/


https://100radleyobjects.wordpress.c...nnings-family/


Firstly a bit of pre military life clarification. With the kind assistance of the archivist at Radley college I was able to verify that Irons did leave school in 1856. A reference to 1851 was a mis-print in the early college registers and this mistake almost certainly led someone to try to reconcile things in later editions with the fallacy that if Irons left in 1851, then it must be his brother in the rowing viii in '56. In fact his brother Lancelot Irons would have been too young at 11/12 to fill the #4 position; the 'engine room' of the 1st viii rowing team in 56. This was confirmed by a contemporaneous log book from the rowing club archive where 'W. Irons' is recorded at position 4.

Phew, I bet you're all glad that was resolved! It does however mean that he did not have time to compete the full term for a cadet at Addiscombe Seminary. In addition to insufficient time to go through Addiscombe we know he does not feature in their cadet lists so it would seem he was a 'Direct Entry' cadet who Saul David, in his book 'The Indian Mutiny' says accounted for two thirds of all new cadets. His Cadet Nomination shown below demonstrates that he was "examined and passed" on 12th August 1857 having been nominated by Sir Frederick Currie (Bart) on the recommendation of a General (possibly Maj-Gen) Carmichael. This examination was dated after news of the massacres reach home which might even have prompted him to enter service.

So, Irons was reported in the Indian press to have arrived at Fort William on 7th January 1858 and I recalled that another arrival was mentioned at the same time; Ensign W. F. Bartleman. Out of interest I checked the passenger manifest of the EIC ship Prince of Wales and found that Bartleman was one of 20 other passengers who had travelled with Irons on the 4 month journey from Gravesend and would have undoubtedly known Herbert well by that time.

Other military passengers on the manifest are listed below just in case I've overlooked anyone of interest: 
Col. Thomson, C.B. - unknown
Capt. Chads - Paymaster 60th rifles
Capt. Timbrell - Bengal art.
Count Spada, senior & junior - no idea! 
Mr. Tylor - reported as '6th fus' but I suspect a transcription error and poss. 5th? 
Mr. Fuller - reported as 9th Lane?? 
Mr. Bushman - unknown if civilian or military
Messrs. Irons, Bartleman, and Wood, Hon. E.I. Co.'s ser.
Rev. H. Smith, d.d.

Bartleman's war service record shows that like Irons he was attached to the left wing of the 13th Light Infantry and was present at the actions of Amorah on the 17th and 25th April, and at the storming and capture of the fort of Nuggur (29th Apr). He went on to be married, have children and reached Maj-General of the Indian army. Looking at Bartleman's experiences I can't help feeling that he lived the life that Irons might have, had he survived.

As well as Irons and Bartleman another EIC officer named Wood arrived in the same ship. I haven't been able to trace him so not sure if he was also attached to 13th. I'm keeping my eyes out to see if the 13th hoovered up any more waifs and strays kicking their heels around Fort William at that time whose experiences may have mirrored that of Irons.

So Bartleman was involved in 3 actions whereas Irons is said in the Radley records to have been involved in 4. Unfortunately the Archivist at Radley could not identify the source of this info other than to suggest that it was likely to have been obtained from the family at some time prior to the 1912 major overhaul of the college register. His brother Lancelot, as we know was also an Old Radleian and so being connected with the school is the most likely source of this information before his death in 1910. Letters of course reached home from India and it is possible that Herbert wrote to his family before his death telling them of his exploits and that Lancelot passed this information onto the school.

Whatever the source I cannot entire rule out the possibility that family or school simply assumed Irons was involved in all engagements featuring men of the left wing of the 13th L.I. as detailed in dispatches published in the Gazette for time he lived. (The 3 above and a 4th on 30th April at Mowee under command of Lt. Innes RN.

That being said, if this is true it would seems likely that some personal correspondence reached home from Herbert after 19th January (the date he was probably attached to left wing of the 13th) or else how would the family have known to look out for actions of the 13th's in the first place? He certainly did not know he would be serving with them when he left his family in England.

On the question of whether his sword was returned to England after his death or continued in India, I was pleased to find a record of his Committee of Adjustment and therein reference to proceeds of a sale which offset his debts. Debts are listed relating to horses, servants, a Mrs Stevens! and various costs arising from his death. I attach a copy with partial transcription and If anyone can help with making out the last few items in red please do!
His debts offer a glimpse into service life in India and on the same subject I also came across the following, written about the life in the field for men of the Pearl and Shannon Naval Brigades but as it points out this was routine borrowed from the army: -

_Each officer had a tent to himself, square, with a single pole, double-roofed, and lined with blue cotton. On opposite sides the upper roof spread into large eaves under one of which the native servants slept. There were flap doors in the other two sides and chicks closed the openings. There were carpets for flooring and charpoys for beds. Similar but less well-appointed tents were provided for the ratings on a scale of six men to a tent. In the field the tents were carried by elephant; the baggage in ox carts or by camel._
_
There was no lack of native servants. Each officer engaged a personal retinue, usually a bearer who acted as personal servant and head of household, a waterboy, a groom, and a grass cutter for each horse that he owned. Each of the ratings' tents had its two or three servants and there were cooks and barbers as well. When in camp the officers were woken with a cup of coffee and enjoyed the luxury of being shaved in bed, sometimes whilst still asleep! This was the usual routine for the Army in India._ (Capt. CW Richmond, Naval Review, 1982)

The account of what was sold at the sale, referred to as in 'bill marked I' is disappointingly not found with the document and I suspect is long gone. The sale however realised 850 Rupees and 11 annas amounting to around £90, 9 shillings. More than enough that it could include the sword. I think it’s a good bet that his sword would have been sold too rather than conducting a piecemeal auction that might not have been sufficient for purpose (discharging his debts).

I think this makes it more likely that the sword continued in India after Irons death. The Committee of Adjustment was presided over by Captain WH Kerr of the 13th in August at a time when the Sarun field force was still operating and they went on to be involved in further actions before the Mutiny was declared to be at an end.
Perhaps it was purchased by a newly promoted Ensign, or one of the officer's of the 13th who felt that a Wilkinson best quality sword was better than their own? Another possibility however remains that a member of the Pearl Naval Brigade acquired it. I cannot forget the Auction houses description of the item as a Naval sword.

Interestingly after checking my records I note that I bought the sword from an auction house in Penzance, a place associated first and foremost with sailors rather than the army. Although the above is too tenuous to consider supporting evidence it certainly doesn't detract from the idea that the sword ended up with a member of the Naval Brigade.

Enquiries have been made recently with the auction house to ascertain whether the 'naval' description came from the owners as part of the sword history or whether simply misidentified by the auction house* However to date with no results either way, which considering the sale was 10 months ago is not unexpected.

I really enjoyed seeing the Committee of Adjustment documents but haven't been able to upload then in legible format so I have attached a link below. 

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/ixer0b9gq...4fDm8GkVa?dl=0

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## JordanPL

Hi James

I have a copy of Irons's Cadet Papers if you haven't got them already?

Cheers
Jordan

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## John Hart

> P.S. You can find some genealogical info on John Wood in "Family Records" by Ashworth P. Burke (1897), p. 636.


That's excellent - thanks!  It confirms a previously only conjectured link I had between the John Wood who served in the Denbigh Militia, and the same who served with Havelock and later in the Antrim Militia.

Much appreciated,

John

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## John Hart

> Copied here due to glitch


Sorry, James, entirely my fault!  Glad you were able to recreate your post - lots of good info in it.   :Smilie: 

If the Wood who sailed with Irons was the same as "my" John Wood (as seems very possible), I have no record of how he got from Calcutta to join Barrow's cavalry volunteers as part of Havelock's force, so don't know if he too was ever attached to 13th LI.  As the son of a country gentleman, however, it's likely that he had good experience of horses, and if so would have been a natural choice as a cavalryman if the opportunity presented itself.

John

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## L. Braden

> That's excellent - thanks!  It confirms a previously only conjectured link I had between the John Wood who served in the Denbigh Militia, and the same who served with Havelock and later in the Antrim Militia.
> 
> Much appreciated,
> 
> John


Glad to oblige, John. Cheers!

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## L. Braden

John - As to how Wood got upcountry from Calcutta to join the Volunteer Cavalry: that was no great problem in Jan. of '58; the land and river routes were then open to the British base of operations at Cawnpore; and if he initially couldn't procure a horse in Calcutta or thereabouts, he would have either taken a steamer or steamers to Cawnpore or taken the train to the railway terminus at Raneegunge (Raniganj) and then proceeded upcountry either by steamer(s) or by horse-drawn mailcarts to Cawnpore, where he could have procured a horse in order to join Barrow, who was with Outram's force outside of Lucknow.

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## L. Braden

P.S. Whether or not Wood was engaged in any action may have depended upon how fast he traveled and when he arrived on the scene of operations. Barrow's cavalry was then with Gen. Outram's force outside of Lucknow, which was retaken with cleanup operations by the end of March. I don't recall what subsequent role the Vol. Cav. played in the war; but in any case, despite what was communicated to or assumed by Burke, Wood was not with Havelock's column during the retaking of Cawnpore and the first relief of Lucknow in '57.

PPS. According to official records, the Vol. Cav. were engaged in "four actions and many minor skirmishes" when with Outram at Lucknow; but whether or not they were disbanded after that, I don't recall. In any case, Swanston's journal was published in 1858 and dedicated to Barrow as "late in command".

PPPS. Since their services were no longer needed, the Vol. Cav. were disbanded on 19 June 1858.

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## james.elstob

Moved post below

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## L. Braden

It just occurred to me that it may be a wrong assumption that the Wood who arrived in India in Jan. of '58 was John Wood, and that JW may actually have served under Havelock. So I made a quick check of Allen's Indian Mail, and lo and behold! a "John Wood" arrived in Nov. of '56; and several named "Mr. Wood" arrived between Dec. of '56 and May of '57, any one of whom could have been our man and just in time or in plenty of time to join Havelock's column, which left Allahabad for Cawnpore in early July. Now, the question is: Why did he journey to India in the first place? Family business, a "lark" or vacation, or what? There's no record (that I can find) of his being in the Indian Army. So, it's my conclusion that Burke was correct in stating that JW was with Havelock's column as "Mr. Wood, Trooper".

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## L. Braden

P.S. Good grief! he was only 19 years old in '57. Unless he was the one who arrived in India in Jan. of '58, he can't have gone there as a volunteer. News of the critical extent of the Mutiny didn't reach England until mid-'57, at which time there was a call for volunteers to help meet the crisis; and volunteers didn't start arriving in India until late '57 and early '58. In the absence of relevant records, this will remain a mystery.
Incidentally, the Vol. Cav. was composed mostly of European civilians and Indian Army officers who had become unemployed or otherwise displaced by the revolt.

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## John Hart

For anyone reading: I'll start a new thread with pictures of the sword in question to avoid derailing James's thread any more!

John

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## james.elstob

> Busy working through a load more of Cadet papers thanks to JordanPL.  
> 
> I'm really stuck on these bits of the Committee of Adjustment marked in _????_ if anyone can help


Thanks John, I'll just shuttle this to the bottom then.

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## John Hart

The bit at the top is "Do.", short for Ditto - ie the same as whatever was in the same place on the preceding page (like a page header).

I read the first word on the next two queried lines as "Edition" - the _Mofussitite_ was an informal publication, _"...a weekly paper edited by a young barrister named John Lang, which for several years indeed, up to the outbreak of May, 1857 continued to appear at Meerut."_ (_Here and There - Memories, Indian and Other_, by H.G. Keene).  Probably from _Moffusil_, an Anglo-Indian word meaning "up country".

The second line queried could be "Edition of [the] _Englishman_" - another publication which ex-pats probably used to keep up with affairs back home.

Hope that helps!

John

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## james.elstob

> "Edition" - the _Mofussitite_ was an informal publication, _"...a weekly paper edited by a young barrister named John Lang, which for several years indeed, up to the outbreak of May, 1857 continued to appear at Meerut."_ (_Here and There - Memories, Indian and Other_, by H.G. Keene).  Probably from _Moffusil_, an Anglo-Indian word meaning "up country".


Mofussitite!!! I'm not surprised I couldn't work it out. 

Thanks

P. S. He spent more on newspapers than a month worth of rations!

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## John Hart

Thinking about this, the "30" can't refer to the items following it, as it's dittoed all the way down the page (unlikely he would have had 30 funerals or 30 Mrs Stevenses!).  So maybe it reads something like "Keep of 3 horses from 1st to c[irca]. 4th June"?

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## james.elstob

I wondered whether the 30 was to indicate the charges falling within that number of days.  I. E.  Mrs Stevens expenses falling within 30 days.   

If so, perhaps the 30 dittos were already present on the form, it having been drawn up ahead of time in a batch ready for use.  Or perhaps it was a standardised format  and included regardless of relevance. 

I can't make any sense of it in any other respect. 

I agree that "keep" of 3 horses is obvious but there seems to be only 3 letters with no obvious "p" whereas the wiring and spelling in all other parts seems meticulous (with the exception of "Edition" which is why I was initially doubtful about that). 

Seems like the most obvious answer though.

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## james.elstob

> Hi James
> 
> I have a copy of Irons's Cadet Papers if you haven't got them already?
> 
> Cheers
> Jordan


A final piece having reviewed the cadet papers. 

Irons was at first nominated to the Madras Army but there is an undated letter on file written by Sir Frederick Currie Bart asking for the nomination to be changed from Madras to Bengal Infantry. I wonder if this was prompted by news of the Mutiny. 

The nomination was based on the recommendation of Maj. General Charles M. Carmichael, elder brother of Col. George Carmichael-Smyth, of the Meerut greased cartridge incident infamy!

To be granted his Direct Cadetship he was examined and passed by professors of:

Mathematics & Classics
Fortifications and 
French 

That's it, I'm done.  Thanks for all the help!

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