# Communities > Modern-era Swords and Collecting Community > Modern Production Katanas >  Whats YOUR favorite production Katana?

## Rich A.

Just what it says. Whats your fav, why, and maybe a pic. Just want to see what everybody likes.

----------


## M.K. Ridgeway

My Favorite...

The now defunct Oni Forge Ryu... just a great sword

I also like The Hanwei Wind and Thunder a whole bunch too...

----------


## Rich A.

i like the lines of that sword too.

----------


## michael wilson

The one thats on its way of course  :Big Grin:  

Heres the now defunct Liveblade shogyusha by fred chen 

followed by a kissaki shot of the Oni Forge Ukigumo ( also by fred chen )  
thats on its way to my after skip has worked his mounting magic  :Wink: 

Ive read a few reports that say the ukigumo blade is identical to the shogyusha blade  - only the uki is folded . 

anyway its my favourite  - I hankered after one back in 06 when M.K first had one  - but I always missed out for some reason or another  -  But Dan Bespalko has helped me out big time and now even though its only a production piece ive finally got the blade I was always after  :Smilie: 

p.s the liveblade shogyusha is the bottom sword  of the three 

Mick

----------


## Jerry G.

Bugei Samurai hands down, both the wak and the kat(though I don't like the tanto).  I had both but ended up having to trade 'em away and miss 'em lots every day.  I like the bold lines, solid construction, decent weight, good balance and simple steel koshirae.  With every other production sword I've owned, there was always _something_ I felt I'd need to change or amend.  Not so with the Samurai.  Right out of the box, it was a looker that had a fierce attitude to back it all up.  If I'm ever able to buy another sword or two, I'd love to get another Bugei Samurai daisho...one I won't let slip away.   :Embarrassment:

----------


## Travis Nicko

I've got a pc bushido (later gen) with a particularly well formed kissaki and nice, consistent sori and taper...if I could locate my camera...I'll be back!

----------


## Travis Morris

My favorite was a Bugei Bamboo I had. Sold it on the forum.

----------


## Timo Qvintus

My favorite sword is.. don't laugh.. my customized Masahiro Bamboo.  :Big Grin:  Although this might chance once I get the chance to break in my Samurai-Sword-Shop T-10.

----------


## M.K. Ridgeway

> My favorite sword is.. don't laugh.. my customized Masahiro Bamboo.  Although this might chance once I get the chance to break in my Samurai-Sword-Shop T-10.



 Good for you Timo...

   3 years later for me, and my Masahiro Bamboo is   still a solid. sharp sword. There were predictions of an epic fail within a month... and for what I paid , a month would have been ok with me... but 36 months now, no fail, epic or otherwise...

----------


## michael wilson

Ive also got a 1st gen Bushido that I love  - picked up in the classifieds and though the ito was a bit loose it had been extremely well looked after for the 6 years the guy had it for .

Its got the white horn saya fittings that the early bushido had , it still has a geometric yokote but not as defined as the later ones  - only problem is the stick thin tsuka the gen 1's had  - I mean a 36mm fuchi and a 32mm koshirae is more like tanto sizes than a katana ( see pic ) 

along with the ukigumo its going to be remounted by skip gardner with a more substantial tsuka and better fittings

----------


## Farid Sheikh

Cut with a Bugei Dragonfly (not sure if it had bohi) and I loved it.

----------


## J-M. Watier

For me both the Oni from PC and the Samurai Katana from Bugei.

----------


## les yeich

i've owned a *lot* of production katana, and i can say i don't have a definite favorite. 

almost all the mounted katana i've gotten from kris cutlery were what i would consider excellent swords, regardless of price range. they're kind of niche blades, though, since they've mostly had unique mounts. don't get them expecting a traditional sword, but expect really great, fun performance. 

the bwt katana from imperial weapons was a really pleasant buy for me. the blade had more activity in it than i had expected and the blade itself survived destruction testing to a degree i would say was very impressive for a production blade. i honestly couldn't do significant damage to the blade via cutting. i abused it to sh*t. the tsukamaki and fittings survived some clubbing action. this was a very tough sword, and the balance was such that it was very light, but tip- balanced. it had a lot of presence and authority for cutting, but was light enough to handle for a long time. i unfortunately have come across a few people who weren't impressed by this sword. i think if you're looking for a really traditional sword, this isn't a great choice. if you're looking for a sword that in my opinion is a lot of fun to cut with and you don't have to worry about damaging it, then this is a great sword.

i've liked most the hanwei stuff i've owned. i've never had any issues of significance with any of the swords i've bought, excepting a second gen pk that had pretty bad saya fit. the newer pk elite was pretty impressive. it reminded me of much higher- end blades i've seen. it felt like a blade actually worthy of being called a "tournament" cutter or whatever they're saying these days. the folded line has always been decent. i have a kami right now that has excellent kissaki shaping, and feels really good in the hand. it cuts really well. the saya is now black and i have a jabara-esque wrap on the tsuka.

fred chen stuff is usually pretty solid. quality seems to vary from seller to seller, and i've noticed some companies seem to get preference when it comes to  final finish and fit. i've personally had good luck with cold steel, and the double edged kat from them was especially fun to cut with. last legend has improved a lot.

there are a few brands i'm not a fan of, but i'm not going to go into that. it would just offend people.

----------


## Rich A.

Almost seems like peopels favroties are directly in relation to cost. Bugei is up there in both cost and desire, then probley Paul Chen, then the other lower prices(NOT CHEAP, but economical) swords have a smattering. 

No Dynasty Forge mentioned yet?

----------


## les yeich

i actually group dynasty forge in with fred chen stuff. there has been some debate in the past as to which companies sell fred chen, and which companies sell from forges *derived* from fred chen (aka fred chen derivatives). now a lot of companies sell them, but when they were first branching out, a lot of sellers were trying to claim superiority by claiming they were selling the "original" or conversely from a forge who had "improved" and branched out.

----------


## Mat Rous

My DF Daimyo was the prettiest production blade I've yet seen. 

Sadly, no good for Tameshigiri as the edge was too thin and detached. 

Good for Kata.

----------


## gabe winner

Hi

i have 2 production Katanas one is a PPK 
the other is the wonderful Oni forge Ukigumo it is both Folded and Pattern Welded 1095 High Carbon Steel

----------


## Jo P.

For me, it has to be the Cheness 9260 line. Just love the feel  :Big Grin: 

Specifically, the Tenchi in shirasaya.

----------


## Benjamin P.

I move that anyone posting their favorite production kat post pictures of said sword!!  :Big Grin:

----------


## Travis Nicko

Here's the blade of the bushido I mentioned earlier...

----------


## Edward Covolo

2nd vote for the Bugei Samurai daisho. 

After a session of cutting tatami mats, my buddy and I nicknamed the katana "the lightsaber", it cut so well  :Smilie: .

--Edward

----------


## Ruud B

My favo production blade is the Citadel Yoshi, awesome looking and handling for a good price.

----------


## inhyuk yoon

For me... Citadel katana!
Best cutting blade i ever had.

----------


## Jerry G.

Good call on the Citadels, BTW.  I rated them behind the Bugei Samurai by only the slightest margin overall...almost solely for the folded steel aesthetic.  Mine fits me like a glove as I have larger hands and she sports a 28.5" nagasa.   :Smilie: 

In addition to this Citadel katana, I also have Citadel wakizashi, tanto, aikuchi and ken.  They are all extremely well made and solidly crafted with the tightest of tolerances and nary a creak or wiggle to be found.  I believe Mike at SoL even has his remaining Citadel stock on sale currently...

----------


## M.K. Ridgeway

> Good call on the Citadels, BTW.  I rated them behind the Bugei Samurai by only the slightest margin overall...almost solely for the folded steel aesthetic.  Mine fits me like a glove as I have larger hands and she sports a 28.5" nagasa.  
> 
> In addition to this Citadel katana, I also have Citadel wakizashi, tanto, aikuchi and ken.  They are all extremely well made and solidly crafted with the tightest of tolerances and nary a creak or wiggle to be found.  I believe Mike at SoL even has his remaining Citadel stock on sale currently...



 Hey Jerry, how about a thread with some pics of those Citadel, especially the Ken...

 I took my Yoshi for granted when I had it, and now I miss it terribly  :Embarrassment:

----------


## Jerry G.

> Hey Jerry, how about a thread with some pics of those Citadel, especially the Ken...
> 
>  I took my Yoshi for granted when I had it, and now I miss it terribly


Sure thing, Marc.  My wife gets back on Wednesday with the digital camera and I'll try to snap some pics of my whole Citadel collection side-by-side for comparisons and contrasts relative to each other.  Here are some pics I'd previously taken of a few more of the blades referenced.

----------


## michael wilson

Hey Marc mate  - 

I didnt know you had owned a Citadel as well   :Smilie: 
Bud you've had more production kats than ive had 
hangovers  - and thats a lot hehhee 

seriously though Marc/Jerry  - Citadel has quite a big prescence over here in Europe  - its kinda like what Bugei is to the US sword community , the high end of the production market.

and until you see what they go for in EU countries 
you dont realise just how good a job mike crampton has done to keep the prices down to around $1000 - $1200 at shadow of leaves , over here there at least 50 percent more .

marc if you have any pics of the yoshi i'd love to see them mate  - as well as jerry's. 

cheers 

Mick

----------


## M.K. Ridgeway

> Hey Marc mate  - 
> 
> I didnt know you had owned a Citadel as well  
> Bud you've had more production kats than ive had 
> hangovers  - and thats a lot hehhee 
> 
> seriously though Marc/Jerry  - Citadel has quite a big prescence over here in Europe  - its kinda like what Bugei is to the US sword community , the high end of the production market.
> 
> and until you see what they go for in EU countries 
> ...



Mick ,

 It was a well made sword, and beautiful... but not much of a cutter  :Frown:  
At least mine wasn't ... the old Mas. Bamboo outclassed it as a cutter... thats why I sold it...

 I will dig, but I had it back in 2005 before I joined SFI , and right when I joined SFI, sold it in mid 2006... pictures of it are almost as rare as photos of a SB custom katana  :Hyuk!:   :Wink:

----------


## Jerry G.

> Mick ,
> 
>  It was a well made sword, and beautiful... but not much of a cutter  
> At least mine wasn't ... the old Mas. Bamboo outclassed it as a cutter... thats why I sold it...


The only thing I've cut with any of my Citadels is myself...no joke.  Not two hours after I bought the aikuchi above, I was mountainbiking with a couple buddies.  I'd put the aikuchi in my camelback in it's case not wanting to leave it in my car in a public lot known for break-ins.  While decending a steep, overgrown area at high speed, I impaled my right forearm on a 1/2" thick branch that was broken off and pointing into the path.  I skidded to a halt to find about 2 1/2" of the stick stabbed deep into my arm and broken off right at skin level.

I couldn't even pedal back to my car to drive for medical attention because the stick was pinning muscles or something internally into a position the prevented me from being able to grip anything, much less my handlebars enough to ride.  With only the aikuchi with me as a tool, my queasy buddy had to slice my arm open against the stick where it entered while I poured seltzer water over the wound to keep the blood from obscuring his view of what he was doing.  After steeling his nerves and making about a 3/4" incision, he could finally see enough of the end of the stick to grip it with his pair of needle-nose pliers with enough force(it was slippery) to pull the damned long thing out of my arm.  It took almost six months for the internal hematoma to shrink all the way and nerve feeling to return to that portion of my forearm.

Had I not been so lucky as to have it with me that day(the Citadel aikuchi), I don't think that particular cycling episode would have turned out quite so nicely.   :Cool:

----------


## M.K. Ridgeway

> The only thing I've cut with any of my Citadels is myself...no joke.  Not two hours after I bought the aikuchi above, I was mountainbiking with a couple buddies.  I'd put the aikuchi in my camelback in it's case not wanting to leave it in my car in a public lot known for break-ins.  While decending a steep, overgrown area at high speed, I impaled my right forearm on a 1/2" thick branch that was broken off and pointing into the path.  I skidded to a halt to find about 2 1/2" of the stick stabbed deep into my arm and broken off right at skin level.
> 
> I couldn't even pedal back to my car to drive for medical attention because the stick was pinning muscles or something internally into a position the prevented me from being able to grip anything, much less my handlebars enough to ride.  With only the aikuchi with me as a tool, my queasy buddy had to slice my arm open against the stick where it entered while I poured seltzer water over the wound to keep the blood from obscuring his view of what he was doing.  After steeling his nerves and making about a 3/4" incision, he could finally see enough of the end of the stick to grip it with his pair of needle-nose pliers with enough force(it was slippery) to pull the damned long thing out of my arm.  It took almost six months for the internal hematoma to shrink all the way and nerve feeling to return to that portion of my forearm.
> 
> Had I not been so lucky as to have it with me that day(the Citadel aikuchi), I don't think that particular cycling episode would have turned out quite so nicely.


Wow ,  cool story.. I think I'd keep that one forever...

----------


## Travis Nicko

Damn, Jerry, that's friggin' hardcore! Makes me wanna stay off my mountain bike!

----------


## Alex Kakashi

For me it has to be the Bugei Samurai.  Why?  Well, it has a special place in my heart as my first production sword and as the best quality all round performer in any modern blade I have ever seen/used.  

I researched what production katana to buy for a couple of years and finally, painstakingly decided on the samurai - and I most certainly wasnt let down.  I have pushed this beast to the edge, cut a six roll tatami mat like it wasnt there, green tree branches so thick it makes my eyes water (over 3 inches in dia.) and have never managed to damage this blade.  She now has a few scratches on the shinogi but no chips (or micro chips) whatsoever on the ha, regardless of what I have put her through and the hard targets she has munched.  I simply love her and never want to part with this beautiful piece.  Bugei Samurai FTW!!

----------


## Jerry G.

> ...green tree branches so thick it makes my eyes water (over 3 inches in dia.) and have never managed to damage this blade.


Please humor me by saying the tree brances were _inadvertently_ cut because they hung too near your tatami stand.  I wouldn't even cut tree branches with my Cheness milkjugulator much less a fine blade like Bugei's Samurai!   :Frown:

----------


## Alex Kakashi

lol...then I do it so that you dont have to.  I wanted to test the blade and my skill.  I wanted to see what could be done...with THAT blade.  I took the risk and found the interesting results I was hoping for - clean cuts with no bends or damage to the ha.

----------


## Gary S

> Please humor me by saying the tree brances were _inadvertently_ cut because they hung too near your tatami stand.  I wouldn't even cut tree branches with my Cheness milkjugulator much less a fine blade like Bugei's Samurai!


I don't know if I would consider ANY production sword _fine_. They're tools meant to be used, not art objects.  
 That said however, cutting a fairly thick branch can sometimes chip or bend a mistempered ( is that a word? If not it ought to be!) blade.
 Then again, to flipflop back to the other side of the argument, I've cut some pretty respectable saplings with a $100 Hanwei "Zatoichi" sword. Even more amazing, I've also done it with a crappy 420J stainless steel SLO and had no damage occur except cracking the $1.99 plastic tsuka. I replaced the tsuka and extremely ugy and historically inaccurate saya with ones I made from poplar and cut some more... To this day nearly 20 years later, I still have it hanging on my wall, battered, chipped like hell...but still relatively whole.

----------


## Benjamin P.

> I don't know if I would consider ANY production sword _fine_. They're tools meant to be used, not art objects.


Well, I'm going to throw out a friendly disagreement, Gary.  Mainly, I think it's kind of tough to lump all production blades into one big category, you know?  On one end of the spectrum, there's quality high end like Bugei, Citadel, MAS... and on the other end, "fleabay" "can chop iron" stuff...  :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic):   :Big Grin: 

I still don't know much about swords, but I think in general that beauty is in the eye of the beholder.  And a word like "art" has meant so many different things to different people...  I guess I'm just trying to say that I like production swords for what they are... and I think a lot of people could find artistic beauty in at least some of them and treasure them as such, even if they are imperfect in a lot of ways and not even 1/10 the price of customs or antiques.  

And Jerry's Citadel katana is my favorite in this thread so far.  Come on, people!  Post with pics!   :Big Grin:

----------


## Alex Kakashi

IMHO, any NEW sword, whether it be a production blade or a custom made sword by the world's most skilled artisans - unless otherwise specified,  (be it a religious item like sacraficial piece designed to rest at a shrine or something) is to be USED.  
What is the point of making/buying new swords unless there is some kind of use for them?  I can understand if some people's "use" is putting them on a wall and looking at them.  Maybe even swinging them carefully through thin air could be considered "use".... but for me - use means use.  
With no offence intended to anyne - when I buy a NEW sword (ie not antique nihonto, but perhaps a new nihonto) I intend to put it to some kind of use. I "use" antique blades to gain knowledge from, to study and appreciate, but I (usually) dont actually cut with them.  Some of these are fine blades, some are not so fine; most have been retired either because of age, wear or intrinsic value...but I do not believe in this nonsense about never going anywhere near anything cuttable with a nice "production katana" because of the fact that you might "spoil the blade".  lol.  This is probably the most ludicrous thing I have ever heard anyone say - but there seems to be many an hombre spouting this self righteous baloney.  Thats like saying dont drive your new car, you might wreck it...  "ooh i never cut with my nice swords only with my $50 wallhanger cos I dont wanna mess up the blade"...  "i just bought a ferrari but i only ever go out in my 76 pinto cos im afraid of scratching the paintwork...."
Fine by me, but you'll never get the hang of using your nicer swords...or driving your nice car, they will both just sit in the garage gathering dust - which is a bit of a shame.

----------


## Benjamin P.

Alex, the fact is that, unless your full-time job is be a sensei in a dojo, no one actually "needs" to use any of their katanas to cut anything ever... whether that blade is an antique or custom or production.  I also don't think the car analogy really works here.  "Meant to be used"?  If we take that notion to its logical conclusion, then all swords are actually "meant to be used" to maim and harm and kill PEOPLE.  Not inanimate bamboo or tatami or bottles.  PEOPLE.  So, does that mean we should all go out and put our swords and katanas to their "intended use"?  Heck, I hope not.  I can't even sit through a bloody movie.   :Gag: 

"nonsense"... "ludicrous"... "spouting self righteous baloney"...  are all pretty harsh and judgmental words to describe something which for most people is just a fun hobby.  And I really don't see what being self-righteous has to do with anything.  

As far as I can see there's nothing wrong with just having something as an art object in your home that brings you pleasure.  It's not bothering anyone else and no one else needs to agree that it's pretty or whatever.  In fact, I don't think it's really anyone else's business.  But let's agree to disagree.   :Smilie:

----------


## les yeich

> What is the point of making/buying new swords unless there is some kind of use for them?  I can understand if some people's "use" is putting them on a wall and looking at them.  Maybe even swinging them carefully through thin air could be considered "use".... but for me - use means use.  
> With no offence intended to anyne - when I buy a NEW sword (ie not antique nihonto, but perhaps a new nihonto) I intend to put it to some kind of use. I "use" antique blades to gain knowledge from, to study and appreciate, but I (usually) dont actually cut with them.


i think this is the final word in that little debate.

as far as favorite production sword, there are so many out there these days it's hard to narrow it down. it basically comes down to what you want in a sword. for the wall-displayers out there, the damascus ebay katana should do the trick quite nicely. for people who plan on cutting with their blades, be it leisure or destructive, blades with good, solid reputations as "performers" are the route to go.

----------


## Jerry G.

A word on the previous debate:  Whosoever plunks down the cash for a sword can do _whatever_ they want with them within the bounds of law(or face the consequences).  I *personally* don't cut with the nicer ones because I am not trained to do so and have no desire to bend and scratch up an expensive blade due to my technical incompetence.  I DO cut with a Cheness blade remounted to the task.  For me, there is a difference between a $300 blade and a $1000-$4000 blade...because I am not rich.  I also see a difference between cutting milk jugs & pool noodles(hacker targets), cutting tatami or green bamboo(proper targets) and cutting tree limbs, shrubbery, 2x4s or discarded mannequin dressed like Elvis(destructive targets).  Were I a millionaire, I may not make such a distinction but alas, I am not.  Therefore, I choose not to beer bong Dom Perignon, light Cohibas with 50's, peel out & do doughnuts in a Ferrari, lick & stick rare stamps on the sewer bill or prune the underbrush with my Bugei.  If I win the lottery, you guys'll be the first to know when I start snapping up all the nice blades in the SFI classifieds.   :Big Grin:

----------


## Gary S

> Alex, the fact is that, unless your full-time job is be a sensei in a dojo, no one actually "needs" to use any of their katanas to cut anything ever... whether that blade is an antique or custom or production.  I also don't think the car analogy really works here.  "Meant to be used"?  If we take that notion to its logical conclusion, then all swords are actually "meant to be used" to maim and harm and kill PEOPLE.  Not inanimate bamboo or tatami or bottles.  PEOPLE.  So, does that mean we should all go out and put our swords and katanas to their "intended use"?  Heck, I hope not.  I can't even sit through a bloody movie.  
> 
> "nonsense"... "ludicrous"... "spouting self righteous baloney"...  are all pretty harsh and judgmental words to describe something which for most people is just a fun hobby.  And I really don't see what being self-righteous has to do with anything.  
> 
> As far as I can see there's nothing wrong with just having something as an art object in your home that brings you pleasure.  It's not bothering anyone else and no one else needs to agree that it's pretty or whatever.  In fact, I don't think it's really anyone else's business.  But let's agree to disagree.


 I certainly agree that there is a world of difference between MARVELOUS SNAKE TSUBA SWORD and a Bugei sword, and Alex certainly could have been a bit more _diplomatic_ with his choice of words. However, my point was this: a remark was made earlier about using a Bugei for cutting. If you go to Bugei's website or surf Youtube, you can find a ton of pictures and videos with Bugei's founder James Williams cutting with various  Bugei swords. The original idea with Bugei swords was to create an affordable option for us JSA practitioners to own a sword that could be used without resorting to an antique or a gunto that would need extensive refurbishing to be functional. In that context, yes these swords are "meant to be used."
 As far as considering it an "art object", I find it hard to consider anything mass-produced an art object.  Which is not to say that one isn't entitled to buy and treasure one. But collecting rubber bands doesn't give you the right to cringe every time someone uses one at the office. Nor does your opinion that rubber bands are awesome change the fact that the rest of the world, including the people who make them, consider them, well... rubber bands. I realize this seems like a rather silly comparison, bit if you comsider the larger perspective you'll get my point. The most expensive production sword (at least that I've seen) is less than half the price of the cheapest _unmounted_ Nihonto. And no these Nihonto are generally not considered art objects. Most people buying these are martial artists buying a tool to use.

----------


## Gary S

> A word on the previous debate:  Whosoever plunks down the cash for a sword can do _whatever_ they want with them within the bounds of law(or face the consequences).  I *personally* don't cut with the nicer ones because I am not trained to do so and have no desire to bend and scratch up an expensive blade due to my technical incompetence.  I DO cut with a Cheness blade remounted to the task.  For me, there is a difference between a $300 blade and a $1000-$4000 blade...because I am not rich.  I also see a difference between cutting milk jugs & pool noodles(hacker targets), cutting tatami or green bamboo(proper targets) and cutting tree limbs, shrubbery, 2x4s or discarded mannequin dressed like Elvis(destructive targets).  Were I a millionaire, I may not make such a distinction but alas, I am not.  Therefore, I choose not to beer bong Dom Perignon, light Cohibas with 50's, peel out & do doughnuts in a Ferrari, lick & stick rare stamps on the sewer bill or prune the underbrush with my Bugei.  If I win the lottery, you guys'll be the first to know when I start snapping up all the nice blades in the SFI classifieds.


While I agree that saplings, 2x4s etc. are not the wisest objects to cut, I think I speak for most of us when I state that a mannequin dressed as Elvis would be pretty hard to resist... :Stick Out Tongue:

----------


## Jerry G.

Here are a few pics, as promised, of my Citadel swords in various stages of undress in order of nagasa length.  Because you can't tell so much with my pictures, here are some details that may not be obvious:

The nagasa lengths are as follows, from tip to munemachi- katana(28.5"), wakizashi(21.5"), shobu tanto(7.75"), hira aikuchi(7.75") and kaiken(6.0").

The tsuka lengths are as follows- katana(11.0"), wakizashi(6.75"), shobu tanto(4.5"), hira aikuchi(4.5") and kaiken(3.5").

----------


## Jerry G.

All but the kaiken have ihori mune, the two largest have sugu hamon and the tanto all have sugu-esque hamon with more widely spaced gunome bumps...almost like a rounded-off togari.  All have full same' wraps and the three with tsuba also have silk ito and bamboo mekugi(the two smallest ones have horn or delrin mekugi).  The tsuba are hand-chiseled sukashi iron and the metal fittings(F/K, habaki, menuki, seppa) are either antiqued brass or copper with the katana having a matte black patina and the wakizashi a more glossy patina.  The same' on the aikuchi is natural, lacquered black on the tanto and kaiken and bleached white on the katana and wakizashi.  The katana and wakizashi also have high shinogi.  All the saya are glossy black with horn fittings and brass shitodome except the wakizashi which is red with black specks or flakes in it...and the three short blades have saya with metal koiguchi.

----------


## michael wilson

Alex and his Bugei blade have entered youtube folklore  - he likes swords and he likes to use em  :Wink: 

we are all aware that these are not art swords but to each one of us maybe a simple production sword 
means a lot more to us due to time, place or people it reminds us of  - 

I bought my cold steel chisa kat the week my son was born and the roll of film I used for his first pics I also took a few of the sword  - so now that sword holds special memories for me  - I remember 
going home to an empty house while mother and baby were in hospital and stripping the tsuka and fittings to clean it till it was time to go back to see them again  - wonderful , happy days .

BTW Jerry 

I was halfway through a lasagne at work when I read your citadel post  - mate I had to leave it for 5 minutes after I read the bit about slippey blunt nosed pliers  - urggh  :Big Grin:  :Big Grin:

----------


## Jerry G.

> BTW Jerry 
> 
> I was halfway through a lasagne at work when I read your citadel post  - mate I had to leave it for 5 minutes after I read the bit about slippey blunt nosed pliers  - urggh


Hahahaha...they were all greasy and dirty, too, from sitting God knows how long in the bottom of his cycling pack.  The BEST was watching stuff in my arm move through the adjacent skin as it was tugged toward the opening only to have the pliers pop off the stick and everything spring back to its original position several times.  Once we finally got back to my riding buddy's house, we had to waste some of his Old Grandad pouring it onto and into the wound because I was hyper-paranoid of contracting some sort of flesh-eating virus and he didn't have any bactine or peroxide on hand.  I can't say that _all_ that escaped the bottle that evening was strictly for medicinal use, however.   :Big Grin:

----------


## Alex Kakashi

Hi all.  So anyway, I meant no offence at all to anyone when I talked about self righteousness and baloney...  The points I was trying to get across, albeit not very diplomatically, were more or less highlighted by Gary and Les...  
and well mentioned about the cheap Nihonto there Gary...  

I just wanted to follow up...a Bugei is not an art sword, though it may be pretty. They were all designed to be resilient cutters; ie swords meant to be used.  Benjamin - you raised an intertesting point but I have to disagree with your implication that only full time sword teachers/senseis "need" to cut, starting simply with the argument that surely if the teacher *needs* to cut; all students would *need* to cut in order to learn.  I dont want to go deeper into this *needs* thing as it becomes a philosophical debate...  I just disagree and I think that everyone that owns a sword *needs* to know how to use it...and at the absolute least, know how hadle it..which would imply knowledge of use - but whatever.
On to your next point - I know people like to shy away from this one because it sounds a little violent and conjures up terrible images, but frankly yes - the sword is still, at least partially, a weapon and is *meant* to be a weapon.  I have a suspicion that if someone created a "katana" that could never harm a person then it wouldnt sell as well as the standard type.  In addition, in complete speculation, I think that if the bugei people heard a report of one of their sword blades breaking on an armed home intruder they would not be best pleased - neither would their clientel!!

Lastly - saplings ARE a viable target.  Im not saying go trim your hedge or backyard brush with your bugei.  I AM saying that I have seen skilled and respected Japanese sensei cut down both pine and banana tree saplings with their swords in videotaped cutting displays.  a) they provide a resistance medium. b) they are not too large. c) they are biological, plant matter, and softer than blade steel. d) it looks cool.  
The first three are good enough reasons for me.
I agree however that 2x4 is a shitty medium and one is likely to damage oneself or one's sword attempting this (HOWEVER it CAN be done with damage to neither...)

So...back to the point of my initial post...  It REALLY irks me when someone implies that I am somehow foolish for actually cutting with my bugei blade when this is what they were designed to do, and designed so well I might add.  I believe it to be self righteous for a person to come before me and tell me that what I am doing with my own posession is somehow wrong, and that they would do it "this" way, and that "this" way is right and that my way is the wrong way (even foolish or indicative of lack of knowledge/experience etc etc).  That IS self righteousness.

Jerry, im also not rich, but I do appreciate good quality and good value - IMHO Bugei swords provide both of these factors.
By the way... those pics you posted are beautiful...all lovely swords - dont ever let me near them, I would wanna cut with them all and I know how much you'de hate that  :Wink: 

Peace out.

----------


## les yeich

the funny thing is, i've only done what i consider "heavy" cutting with the blades that impressed me most. in the past when i've picked up a blade that i felt was unimpressive- for various reasons from aesthetic to handling, etc.- i've typically passed it along- regardless of price- rather than even waste my time doing a lot of cutting with it. i've already established that i don't like the sword, so why would i abuse it to see how much it can put up with? . . . i'm not going to buy another. *shrug*. conversely i've picked up a few blades that just felt so good that i *had* to cut with them, even mediums that are inappropriate as far as traditional dojo cutting goes. i've done some cutting with *custom* blades that i think would make a lot of people on here cringe to hear about with a beater, let alone a custom piece. i would actually consider myself closer to poor than rich, monetarily speaking, so it's purely a personal choice. there have been instances where if an expensive blade would have failed, i would have felt pretty stupid for doing the cutting i did. *shrug*. that's why i was impressed in those instances.

i used bricks, concrete blocks, ceramic tile, posts (maybe 4x4, can't recall), branches, saplings, bamboo, and straw mats all as cutting mediums with the bwt (technically, i used anything i could find in the barn of the farmstead i was living at at the time). the blade's finish was ruined, but there was *no* chipping at all to the edge. it had rather heavy niku; like bordering on a secondary bevel. not traditional, but for what it is, it's pretty spot on. saya was one of the better production saya i've seen as far as shaping and fit, although finish was. . . ok. kissaki was lightyears ahead of other brands *at the time*. being that my model was about five years ago, i hope they haven't changed too much.

my twin brother just recently chipped the edge of a fred chen blade (i don't recall what vendor he got it from, but it has the higo theme available from just about everyone) when he a metal medium (i think he said either his grill or a metal stool. . . i guess he was using it as a cutting stand? i'm not too clear on the details.) and for the cut he claims he did, i'm impressed it wasn't chipped a lot more, although it is what i would consider fatal.

----------


## Benjamin P.

Ah well, let's agree to disagree, Alex.  I don't see either of us changing the other's mind and I don't think it's necessary anyway.  My lunch break is too short to get into a semantic debate about "need" and "use" etc.  Anyway, I do understand where you and others are coming from and why you would be irritated with people who say you shouldn't cut with any sword you own.  Hopefully you can understand my irritation when people tell me that I *must* or *should* cut with any sword I own or anything else.  It's a two-way street.  

Friendly disagreement aside, can we just get back to the thread's topic with people posting their favorite production blades with pictures?

----------


## Jerry G.

> So...back to the point of my initial post...  It REALLY irks me when someone implies that I am somehow foolish for actually cutting with my bugei blade when this is what they were designed to do, and designed so well I might add.  I believe it to be self righteous for a person to come before me and tell me that what I am doing with my own posession is somehow wrong, and that they would do it "this" way, and that "this" way is right and that my way is the wrong way (even foolish or indicative of lack of knowledge/experience etc etc).  That IS self righteousness.
> 
> Jerry, im also not rich, but I do appreciate good quality and good value - IMHO Bugei swords provide both of these factors.
> By the way... those pics you posted are beautiful...all lovely swords - dont ever let me near them, I would wanna cut with them all and I know how much you'de hate that 
> 
> Peace out.


First, to quote myself in response to you saying you cut tree branches with your Bugei greater than 3" in diameter-

"Please humor me by saying the tree brances were inadvertently cut because they hung too near your tatami stand. I wouldn't even cut tree branches with my Cheness milkjugulator much less a fine blade like Bugei's Samurai!"
My comment was merely _my opinion_ on using that sword on that target...in humor...because it was my *favorite*.  It is certainly capable of and intended for cutting; I just loved the blade so much that I didn't want to scratch it up.  For me, it was a fine blade though others may disagree.  I didn't say you were foolish and thought my attempt at humor was recognizable without the official winky "I'm kidding" smilie.  As far as all the self-righteousness stuff, wow- either I didn't do a good enough job of making my point clear or you woke up on the wrong side of the bed.  In either case, we don't know each other well enough to make some of the assumptions spoiling this thread so I'm just going to go back, delete my post and wish I'd never even typed it.  Fair enough?

[EDIT: Nevermind.  Apparently I am not able to edit the post or delete it.  My apologies to all.]

----------


## Alex Kakashi

Jerry, you were not the target of my comments about self righteousness.  You may have been drifting in that direction, but there have been loads more people who outright remark things like "cutting with your bugei will spoil it" or "you shouldnt cut with an 'expensive' (lol) blade" and the like.
Please dont delete any of your posts, thats one thing which is really badly wrong with SFI, people get bullied into retracting their comments all the time.  The whole point in a forum is being able to read the entire natural discourse.

Benjamin, I never said you should cut with your sword; I take issue with people telling me I shouldnt cut with mine; my point is that people should be able to do whatever they like with their posessions.  At no point did I ever say that people who dont cut with their swords are in the wrong as you insinuate.

Sorry people, Ive just heard too much negativity about actual sharp sword usage over the years and it gets to me.  Rant mode now completely off.

----------


## Jerry G.

I think the smoke has cleared and we can all come back out of our bunkers to play now that everyone's packed their tools back into their trousers.   :Big Grin: 

So...back to the OP's question-

*"Whats YOUR favorite production Katana?

Just what it says. Whats your fav, why, and maybe a pic.  Just want to see what everybody likes."*

----------


## mscrampton

Jerry you and I have met and known each other for a while now.  You know I believe in quality first (and as a business profit second).  The Bottom line is what you get for your dollar.  If it works it works and has been through the centuries.  There is another thread concerning a comparison of katana that is being offered on Ebay vs. what is offered via my good friend and Brother Brian Dreier at roninswords.com.  They are not comparable.  What Brian offers he has tested and endorses.  As a Sensei he knows what it is he offers or would not allow it for sale.  He is well recognized in the Tokan Kei community as an expert in his field.  The guy who sells on eBay is an expert on profit margin only.  Do they actually sell the same product (I think not) but the choice is in the source.  An expert or a merchant??  But still the bottom line is what works for you.  PROVIDED!!!!  That it is safe for you the owner in use, and those who witness.  Does this make sense or have I lost it completely??

As Always,

Mike

----------


## Jerry G.

> Jerry you and I have met and known each other for a while now.  You know I believe in quality first (and as a business profit second).  The Bottom line is what you get for your dollar.  If it works it works and has through the centuries.


  True, true.  You're the one who turned me on to the Citadel brand, after all, and are no small part of the reason why I will not be selling any of the ones I own.  It is always reassuring to know you're getting your stuff- especially potentially lethal stuff- from someone who knows it inside out.  It makes a customer more secure in their decision-taking when they see that you yourself have several blades disassembled and in various stages of improvement and rebuilding.  Take those Dynasty blades you rebuilt, for instance.  Instead of slapping band-aids on them and reselling them like an ebay merchant, you took 'em apart and fixed their shortcomings from the frame up.  That's one of the prime reasons I've always enjoyed doing business with you...that plus the sake, your knowledge, the other cool weapons, etc.   :Big Grin: 

I wish I wasn't so broke or I'd have snapped up more of your stock by now.

----------


## Jessie F.

well, ive always loved the Last Legend Ronin (of the yashima family) katana, but never could afford one, but that one was  definitely at the top of the list. But for most durable, and affordable of a production, i personally have give it to the cheness 9260 line. i prefer/LOVE my shura, but some like the tenchi, so to each there own, but which ever ya like (even if its the other 9260s ive not mentioned) i think those are a great line for production katanas.  :Big Grin: 
just my 2 cents.  :Smilie: 


~Jessie F.  :Cool:

----------


## J.Williams

mine was the last legend takeda shingen but that's about 5 years ago

now, the cheness shobu zukuri has great form and flow regardless of the furniture, the blade is one of my favorites out there.

----------


## michael wilson

HI Jerry 

I may ( or better still if you do it  :Wink:   ) start a sub thread with this as the topic 

" whats your favourite ( remounted) production katana " 

theres been some absolute gems on SFI over the years and even though they are still only production blades a lot of thought and crfatsmanship has gone into many of them , 

I dont mean to jack the thread Jerry so I may start another one myself 

BTW  - it was looking at your remounted bugei dragonfly that gave me the idea , so any hijacking on my part is really your fault :Big Grin:

----------


## Rich A.

I started this thread when I was about to buy a production Kat and wanted to know what everybody liked themselves and were it fell money wise. 

Well, I ended up getting a remounted production blade (DF 1060 Shobu, you can see it on the "cant wait" thread). So that would be a logical route for this thread. Or start one and I'll post my opinion there.

----------


## michael wilson

Nice one Rich  :Wink: 

It looks like you got your DF shobu at just the right time as well now that Aaron is cutting back his commissions and projects for a while at least .

I think all of the DF customs that Aaron has done a very nice  - some are mouth watering , theres a few of his projects would make it onto my favourite remount list .

----------


## Beau White

> now, the cheness shobu zukuri has great form and flow regardless of the furniture, the blade is one of my favorites out there.


I'm in the market for a new blade, now that the silly UK "samurai" sword ban has been lifted.  I'm taking your comment very seriously, although having looked at the shobu line I think the tsuka may be a little short for me (I'm 6'4" with long arms).  They do look pretty damn good though  :Smilie: 
I was looking at a Last Legend non-folded Mikusa family blade up until I read your post, think I'd still like one, but finding a european dealer is proving a nightmare though.
Imperial Forge do what looks like a nice custom blade, and they have a British website, but nobody seems to know anything about them so I'm hesitant to take a gamble.

Anyway, in answer to the OP, my current favourite blade is my iaito coz its about the right size for me and I got it from Japan  :Big Grin:   I own a Hanwei PP Wak and a P-Pro katana also, but they aren't as nice.

----------


## J.Williams

So glad to hear that the pig sticker revolt is over. Such a lame law to have passed.

I'm 6.3 with long arms and even a longer......  uh..... sense of humor~

as I recall they have a 29" zukuri and that should be long enough 
for the average ryu. I prefer 28.5 for my swords as it allows for much faster draws. Loosing 1/2 inch is made up for with other techniques. 
30 inches and I think legally you have to start calling it a tachi by tradition~  :Smilie: 

for the LL blades, try the guys over at swordarmory.com, tom was always great to deal with and they really took the time to get you a blade
 your going to like instead of just trying to sell you something.

i've seen all of the LL family blades and there is just something about the sori cocking that bugs me for some reason. 

BIZEN SORI IS MY FAVORITE!  smooth and even and hopefully a good sized kisaki to top it all off~

That's why that shobu speaks to me. Just needs a total redo of the koshirae to something more elegant but one of the guys at my school has one and it flows o so nicely. Maybe a nice burgendy ito over black sam'e and some nice flying geese in silver menuki on center of a katate maki wraping~

 :Hyuk!:    sorry, brain went off somewhere on that one

I really like the new ONI from Hanwei as it reminds me of the Takeda, but I read that its crap on all the boards out there so that ones out. 
Bad tsuka shape and it swings like a brick. So that's out~

Hoping the new Hanwei Raptor series is good stuff, just need to swap out the tsuba for a good one and I think their shobu might be nice as well. Have to wait and see.

But since Bugei is only 30 minutes from my house I need to make my way over and see them in person then come back and report~  :Ninja Master:

----------


## les yeich

i've actually heard the oni was a really great handling sword. the gripe from people i've known is simply that it's hard to justify the high price, just because of the "super" material.

if we're talkin remounts, then i would be *very* hard pressed to name a favorite. generally my own experience with remounts (having done them and having had them done for me) has been that as long as the blade tickles your fancy, the end product obviously relies almost entirely on the mounter as far as quality or "favorite-ility" goes. there are so many blades on the market that are good remount candidates it's surprising.

i've had a kc bingo mihara that was an awesome custom mount, as well as various bare blades from kc. i've had various hanwei blades remounted; every one of which was very pleasing. not exactly a *re*mount, but back when liveblade was active with cicada forge, they had a *custom* mounted blade that i fell in love with, and to this day it's a mount i want to have recreated. rather annoying story, actually... when i e-mailed them just weeks after it sold asking for some pictures (they had incredibly detailed pictures) i was told they weren't sure which one i was referring to, as they had so many come through :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic): . i *like* the various fred chen remounts i see, but i can't help but feel there's very little outside of color and fittings that vary between them, whereas when i've had blades remounted i typically insist on fairly specific tsuka shape, features like inro saya, etc. i guess that's the difference between remounting and more simple customizing, though.

----------


## Beau White

> So glad to hear that the pig sticker revolt is over. Such a lame law to have passed.


The ammendment ran that any "traditionally made" swords are exempt from the ban.  The government finally saw the sense that anyone intent on causing harm will carry something small and easily concealed, rather than stuffing a sword up their jacket, moreover they are also unlikely to shell out upwards of £300 on a weapon they will probably want to get rid of very quickly at somepoint.
Anyway, another rant for another topic methinks  :Smilie: 




> as I recall they have a 29" zukuri and that should be long enough 
> for the average ryu. I prefer 28.5 for my swords as it allows for much faster draws. Loosing 1/2 inch is made up for with other techniques. 
> 30 inches and I think legally you have to start calling it a tachi by tradition~


My iaito is 29", been looking at 28.5" for the same reason you state above.  Most sizing charts all point to at least 30" blades for someone my size but it just doesn't feel right in the hand.




> for the LL blades, try the guys over at swordarmory.com, tom was always great to deal with and they really took the time to get you a blade
>  your going to like instead of just trying to sell you something.


I'll have a butcher's at their website, cheers for that  :Smilie: 




> i've seen all of the LL family blades and there is just something about the sori cocking that bugs me for some reason.


The sori on the LL blades is pretty mental I have to agree.  I do like them though.




> Hoping the new Hanwei Raptor series is good stuff, just need to swap out the tsuba for a good one and I think their shobu might be nice as well. Have to wait and see.
> 
> But since Bugei is only 30 minutes from my house I need to make my way over and see them in person then come back and report~


Yes, I had noticed the Raptor on the other thread, looks very interesting indeed.  Anyway, I appreciate your input sir.  Thankyou, you have been a big help  :Smilie: 

(Of course, now that I can buy swords again I could always buy a number of swords over the course of the year and enjoy them all instead of agonizing over just one blade  :Smilie: )

----------


## J.Williams

Your welcome, I am happy to be of some use to the forum~

Wheres the fun in not agonizing on the find of the perfect blade??

Hell that keeps me going half the time!  :drool: 

Makes me wonder if they passed that ban because there are to many highlander fans over there??   :Big Grin: 

A little off topic as its no longer a production blade but here
is my current cutter, it is a Hanwei practical plus that is totally refit with new tsuka, ito, menuki, and tsuba.

I call it "Blue Plum" given its theme.


please excuse that the seppa is loose, I need to still pin it better since I just changed 
them not to long ago from rope to filed seppa's.

The nagasa is 28.5 if my memory serves, so that might be a great blade for you as well. Its been a great blade for me especially after retrofit. Their newest version is the XL.
http://www.strongblade.com/prod/sbch-per-practical.html

I'm not gay ("not that theres anything wrong with that - seinfield") but I do love me some sakura themes on swords.
Something about the highlight of things of delicate nature 
used to enhance the look a lethal weapon.

anyways   LOL!

I'm sorry that I didn't post a photo of this blade sooner since I have been looking over all the blades that everyone else has posted on the forum, its only fair that I contribute too!

----------


## Keith Larman

My Bugei Dragonfly. I think the fittings as designed by Ted Tenold specifically for that blade are some of the nicest ones you'll find in production swords. I also have a soft spot for dragonflies and my wife has a lovely dragonfly tattoo...  :drool:  But my other reasons are pretty simple. It is a thinner blade with bo-hi that has been used by any number of people in tameshigiri and it has never taken a set. So much for the oft heard comments about how easy it is to bend blades with bo-hi. Of course most of the people I've let use the sword have had some basic training so it isn't really an issue. Which is the more relevant issue with using a sword with Bo-hi. I also like it because I have enough problems with tendonitis in my elbow, wrists and shoulders from polishing. And this blade is very light and fast in the hands. So I can train with it relatively pain free and it simply likes to move and cut. 

And it has also been on the receiving end of many experiments on my part and just keeps on cuttin'. Gotta respect that.

----------


## Beau White

> Your welcome, I am happy to be of some use to the forum~
> 
> Wheres the fun in not agonizing on the find of the perfect blade??
> 
> Hell that keeps me going half the time!


Hehe, ok so I'm agonizing over my next blade, and will probably repeat the agonizing process for the blade after that, and the one after that ........ :Stick Out Tongue: 




> Makes me wonder if they passed that ban because there are to many highlander fans over there??


If only it was that comical.  The truth is that the government wanted to appear they were doing something without actually have done or achieved anything.  Anyway, I'm just glad that common sense appears to have prevailed.




> A little off topic as its no longer a production blade but here
> is my current cutter, it is a Hanwei practical plus that is totally refit with new tsuka, ito, menuki, and tsuba.
> 
> I call it "Blue Plum" given its theme.
> 
> 
> The nagasa is 28.5 if my memory serves, so that might be a great blade for you as well. Its been a great blade for me especially after retrofit. Their newest version is the XL.


Nice work  :Cool:   I've got my eye on a Hanwei Practical Katana as a possible refit project, would most likely get the "Elite" blade.  I've also found a UK retailer of Cheness stuff, and the UK price on the "Ayame" Shobu blade you mentioned earlier is very competative when you factor in shipping costs and import duty from the States.

Looking forward to expanding my collection  :Smilie:

----------


## J.Williams

Excellant. You just can't go wrong with a shobu! But the PK+ has a great feel to it. I see that the newest ones also seem to have just a slightly deeper sori it seems then mine.

so that will aid in those long arms~

 I need to add another one to my rack here soon. Its going to come down to the ayame or the raptor shobu.

cheness is only an hour from me and paul offered to let me come
down and try out all the different blades.

bugei is only a half hour from me and the guys that runt he shipping there are a crack up so as soon as I hear the new series can be viewed I'll run on down there too.

take either one of those, slap on a mokko tanto tsuba and I'm
ready to go with it.

keep in touch on what you end up going with, especially if you refit any part of it~

----------


## michael wilson

Well heres a few off the top of my head :

Jerry's Bugei Dragonfly remounted by Paul Loatman

Aaron Justice Dynasty Forge satsuma IV

Chris Osbournes Cicada Forge shogyusha 

Skip Gardner 9260 cheness bare blade full remount ( the most comfortable tsuka ive handled to date , wonderful shaping ) 

Aaron Justice & Adam Colemans repolished Bugei Samurai 

and last but not least  - this was one of the first remounted katana I drooled over when all I owned was a cold steel chisa and I first discovered SFI : - 

Don Nelsons 1st Generation Hanwei musashi  - reworked by Keith Larman 

http://forums.swordforum.com/showthread.php?t=19682

----------


## M. Tuttle

I used one of the Cheness O-katana for kata for a while, and it was nice to practice with occasionally but I prefer my Tea Culture katana above all my others.  

The fittings are quite nice, and the weight is just where I want it (not too heavy, not too light).

-Matt

----------


## Mat Rous

For length/handling and "Prettiness", my DF O-Katana.

For cutting, my Wind and Thunder!

----------


## Edward S.

Well.. I am going to say that My Choices are , in Order:
The Everest Katana by Himalayan Imports
And 2nd: Kris Cutlery Katana 29 II

Both of these swords are made with differentially hardened 5160 steel.

I know some people may consider them more as "Katana Like Objects", however I am very Happy with the Balance, heft, and feel of the Everest Katanas in particular.
I'll try and post some pics soon.

Here is a link to the Everest Katana:

http://www.himalayan-imports.com/sword.html

And the Kris Katana:

http://kriscutlery.com/documents/japanese.html

----------


## tiziano s.

Actually, I’m using a Last Legend Bear, “customed” in more parts: tsuka more short, tsuba e fuchi Edo period, ecc. 
Selected at first, for some my emotive aspects of the martial practice, and then for her strong weight. 
To day, I ordered a Butouken (MAS) L6 custom: all an other thing, just to close my emotive circle and to use a light sword.

----------


## Farid Sheikh

> Well.. I am going to say that My Choices are , in Order:
> The Everest Katana by Himalayan Imports
> And 2nd: Kris Cutlery Katana 29 II
> 
> Both of these swords are made with differentially hardened 5160 steel.
> 
> I know some people may consider them more as "Katana Like Objects", however I am very Happy with the Balance, heft, and feel of the Everest Katanas in particular.
> I'll try and post some pics soon.
> 
> ...


everest katana - agree katana like object.

----------


## Travis Nicko

everest katana  :Embarrassment: ...QUITE an eyesore...a new low.

----------


## Ron Greenwell

My favorite production katana is the Hanwei Tori! A beautiful
swedish powdered steel sword that you can pick up for a reasonable price. Also, doesnt Paul Chen make Bugei as well? Why are they so pricey compared to Hanwei, if they are made by the same forge?

----------


## AaronThomas

Hi Ron... In a small nut shell...Fewer of the Bugei blades are made and quality control is much tighter... Right Keith!!!

----------


## Keith Larman

Well, there are a few reasons. First off, all the designs are Bugei's own designs. So either they do them themselves, or someone like me or Ted Tenold do them (and we're not free). Next we are quite specific about some things. Shaping, proportions, tapers, etc. Most are wrapped in silk rather than cotton ito. Bugei asks for higher grade samekawa (even though it is still paneled). Bugei also has Hanwei make swords in different blade and tsuka lengths (something Hanwei does not do with any of their other swords). So customers have a great deal of choice with respect to fitting the blade to their needs. 

Once Bugei's specific swords hit the US I drive down to inspect them. I go over every sword, adjust things, tighten things, fix what I can and reject what I can't. I check and hone edges, adjust fit at the koiguchi, repair tsukamaki problems, and on and on. Each blade is reoiled with real choji oil from Japan. 

Over the years I've seen great shipment and I've seen some not to great ones. Often after an inspection I'll e-mail Paul Chen directly with any concerns (or compliments) on the state of the delivered swords. Sometimes I ask for changes but usually I point out things I think they need to look at more closely in the future to keep things from sliding. 

Last week I inspected a smaller shipment. I rejected about 10%. That costs Hanwei. And obviously it costs Bugei. But... That's the way it goes and that's what they pay me to do.

We toss the generic hanwei cleaning kit and replace it with a kit from Japan with high grade choji and uchiko. When Bugei ships the swords are packed in a custom made double-walled box with a custom made precut high density foam insert. The boxes alone are worth quite a bit, by the way. Save them -- they're great if you move or sell your sword later.

Finally, Bugei is a "brick and mortar" business that's been around for a long time. They aren't drop shipping swords or working out of their garage. They have a physical location, an 800 number, and are well known for having very good customer service. 

Now... The question is whether it is worth the extra cost. And that question can only be answered by each customer. How much is the inspection, blade length/tsuka length choices, quality control, 800 number, blah, blah, blah worth? Honestly you could go with a generic piece if you like it and it is very possible you'll get a very nice sword. But I also used to get a lot of business fixing up swords with issues when the sellers wouldn't take them back (I don't take on that work any longer). So ... YMMV. 

People have to weigh all the factors and make their own decisions.

----------


## Ron Greenwell

Wow, that is a huge difference and well worth the extra money. Thanks so much for the lengthy answer, you put a bit of time into it and I thank you for that!  I hope someday to purchase a bugei as well. Also Keith I just got an update from Bugei today saying that they are going to carry the raptor series. Will it be the same quality control with these as well? I understand if not because they are only a 400.00 sword. But just by Bugei carrying them at all says something for the quality of these entry level.low cost swords.

Ron Greenwell

----------


## Keith Larman

You know, that's a really good question. I honestly don't know if they're going to want me to come down there and inspect those. I suspect that if they come with a regular shipment and I have time they might ask me to do a quick once over. But the price point is a really low one. And things like fine tuning fit and finish really isn't nearly the issue on a sword meant for this level. 

That said I have asked to see the first shipment of Raptors once they arrive because I want look them over closely rather than rely on the sparse info CAS Iberia is providing so far. There are certain things I simply won't let out the door. I can train someone there to check for the obvious things so that might be the way things go. But honestly, I don't know what they're planning. They do look like a fantastic bargain given what they are. This sort of thing really isn't my cup of tea, personally, but I must admit I rather like the Unokubi zukuri raptor. That sort of shape really seems to make sense (in my head at least) with a through hardened 5160 blade. Wide blade with a diamond cross section on the top 2/3rds, but a more standard shinogi zukuri shape near the tsuba. So neat shape, aggressive cutting shape, and a stiffer, tough steel. Unconventional for sure, but if you're not worried about totally traditional it seems like a no brainer to me. 

My understanding with the Raptors is that since James Williams helped out in the development of the line for CAS Iberia Bugei is also offering them for sale to help out CAS and Hanwei. I do know that they don't plan on using their expensive boxes with the die-cut inserts for shipping these -- the boxes and foam probably cost more than the profit margin on the sword! They ain't in business to lose money. I think it is a good deal that they're shipping a complimentary Bugei Wara with each sword. The idea was to wrap the sword up in the wara inside the box to help protect it during shipment. And that way the customer also has at least one authentic target to try out.

----------


## Jonathan Frances

Even without the fancy box, that sounds like a pretty decent deal.  I may end up picking up one of these.

If you get a chance to handle these, I'd love to know what your impressions are.  I think I'm pretty well covered in terms of rugged, manly, heavy cutters.  Despite the usual contempt for "grass cutters", I really would like to get some experience with (much) lighter blades.

----------


## Keith Larman

Yeah, I'd love to have one to take home and do some cutting with myself. I'm curious, but I also don't have any discretionary cash right now. But I suppose I'll see them soon enough. From what I can tell from pictures, specs and from speaking with James Williams about them they're robust but not overly heavy (which was an initial concern). I've got my eye on the unokubi because they frequently feel vastly lighter in the hands due to their shape and mass distribution. But they cut really nicely (in my experience). So I'm curious about that one. 

But I really want to take one apart and look it over closely. Lots was saved going with a simpler conventional steel and heat treatment (which means simpler finishing too since there is no hamon or hada to worry about). We'll see...

----------


## Tom Lim

Seems like from most accounts the Raptor series will be a great "beater." No hamon and all the jazz but a good cutter in the steel used. Should be interesting to see how these fair. Though I do have my own opinions on production swords, these look like a great deal. And just to add one more thing, I have seen some questions about more choices as to length being available. I think that if you are willing to buy this sword for heavy cutting, I am sure that one could take the time to adjust ones technique to the sword. I may just get one just out of curiousity as well. But we'll see. :Big Grin:

----------


## Keith Larman

Well, I don't know if it had any impact, but I was talking with James Williams about this idea at least about a year ago. He had been talking with Barry at CAS Iberia and Paul Chen about this at the time. I made some suggestions and gave a lot of caveats. To me the critical things are that the tsuka has to be decently made and fit will be critical. If they can significantly cut cost by going with a modern steel and modern heat treat, more power to them. A lot of the cost of a good sword is in the mounting. I told them that a $100 or 200 quality overall sword is simply not possible given the tradeoffs they have to make even with less expensive foreign labor. The design had to be simple and straightforward. Fit had to be right. And the blade could be without all the fancy hamon and hada stuff, but it had to have the correct geometry otherwise it ain't a Japanese style sword. 

They did come in at a price point lower than I expected. I hope to see a few by the end of this month when the first shipments are supposed to start arriving. I was hoping to work out something and maybe get a trade for one for myself when they come in, but from what I hear from the "inside" the pre-ordering is close to selling out what they pre-ordered already. 

Anyway, I'll keep you guys posted. If I don't, remind me. Life has been busy and I'm gearing up for the Chicago Token Kai in a month (geez, time flies).

----------


## Jonathan Frances

I'm pretty impressed with the price point on these raptors as well, and look forward to any additional information.  The other thing I'm pretty curious about is the "unobtanium" katana Williams Sensei was speaking about a few months ago.  I'll have to pop by Bugei's board to see if there are any updates on that one.

I'd love to attend a Token Kai - hopefully by the time the next big one comes up on the radar I'll be in a better place.

----------


## ercansarbat

I had a Bushido (Paul Chen folded), nice to watch and very sharp but I did not like the balance of it. Koshirae seemed to heavy, I could not feel the blade but only Tsuka.
I had many Last legends too, good fittings and good cutter, funny that my best cutter was from longquan forge (maru style with two his).
I want to try a Bugei Katana but afraid that it can get stuck on the customs.

----------


## Gyan G.

Interesting info on the background of the Raptors. I'm very curious about them myself and 90% sure I want to get one for my first, beginning level cutter. So please Keith, keep us posted on any information you have on them. 

I am looking at one of the more resilient, forgiving swords, in the under $500 range as my first cutter. Being new to tamashigiri I was something that can take a bad angle etc.   :Smilie:   For the price and quality Hanwei stuff is known for, I figure it's a great opportunity.

----------


## Keith Larman

When I see them in person I'll toss out a post. I heard today that I might be seeing some very soon. Right now all I've got is what I discussed with James off and on. And we tossed around a lot of ideas but I really don't know many details. James ran with it with Paul Chen and CAS iberia. So all I know now is what I've seen on CAS Iberia's site and from hearing James gushing about how tough they are. I like hamon, hada, and all that other cool stuff, but yeah, they do sound like nice training tools or swords for those who don't care about or don't want to spend a premium for the more traditional approach. I can understand that too. I could see myself getting one just to remount it myself with some spare orphaned fittings I've got around. Maybe I'll have a second training blade for myself one of these days.

Of course I could just repolish that old dragonfly I've had in the workshop I've been testing stones with. Argh, decisions, decisions...

----------


## Edward S.

> Well.. I am going to say that My Choices are , in Order:
> The Everest Katana by Himalayan Imports
> And 2nd: Kris Cutlery Katana 29 II
> 
> Both of these swords are made with differentially hardened 5160 steel.
> 
> I know some people may consider them more as "Katana Like Objects", however I am very Happy with the Balance, heft, and feel of the Everest Katanas in particular.
> I'll try and post some pics soon.
> 
> ...


[http://i391.photobucket.com/albums/o...bletrouble.jpg

http://i391.photobucket.com/albums/o...myst/EVNew.jpg

----------


## M.K. Ridgeway

More of a Dha like object than a katana like object isn't it?

----------


## Keith Larman

> Wow, that is a huge difference and well worth the extra money. Thanks so much for the lengthy answer, you put a bit of time into it and I thank you for that!  I hope someday to purchase a bugei as well. Also Keith I just got an update from Bugei today saying that they are going to carry the raptor series. Will it be the same quality control with these as well? I understand if not because they are only a 400.00 sword. But just by Bugei carrying them at all says something for the quality of these entry level.low cost swords.
> 
> Ron Greenwell


Since I promised to update folk, I just received a call from Bugei today telling me they had them in stock. So I'm driving down there on Monday to do QC on some of their exclusive lines and I'll make the time to look at a few of the raptors while I'm there. They also told me that they had been given misleading information about the pricing on these originally. They clarified the pricing structure with CAS Hanwei so now the price they're charging $239.00 each (still with the freebies they had already promised). Apparently they had just finished sending out $160 refunds to all the people who pre-ordered at the original $399 price.

At this price point they're not going to be having me go over them -- it simply makes no sense. But they're still doing the free Bugei wara, instructions, etc. 

So, if I remember I'll take my camera when I go down there on Monday and shoot a few photos of all three assuming they still have them in stock.

----------


## Edward S.

> More of a Dha like object than a katana like object isn't it?


I think that You may have something there...
Here is a description from the Maker of the Everest Katana:
Our katanas are replicated from a pre 1864 katana.  This beautiful 36 inch (10 inch handle) very tough sword (and we do mean tough!) is now available.  Handle may vary slightly from those shown.  It has been tested by experts and is rated very highly. " http://www.himalayan-imports.com/sword.html


"This is not a Japanese katana clone but the Everest Katana. For people who love swords and use them heavily. See test results in HI forum."



From what I have seen so far of the Dha blades, I am not seeing a Hilt/tsuba type structure on the Dha... but I am still in the research stage on the Dha.

I DO Know that the pattern that the Kamis in Nepal use to make the Everest Katana is a Genuine circa 1830 Japanese
blade... in fact it hangs on the wall in the Workshop where they forge the Ev Kat....

Here is some info from the Gentlemen who were instrumental in the birth of the Everest Katana.


"It's a bit of a long story.
 Short form: years ago I bought a raw blade sword at a gun show with no mounts, intending to roll my own for SCA Bottle Chop competition or the like. I paid $300; I was told it was made pre-WW2. 26.5" length, good condition, no chips or similar, in need of a polish.

I had the tang markings checked. Whoops. It was older than advertised - late Edo, guesstimate 1840ish give or take 30 years. Only got a partial translation however, the location where it was made: Kyoto, but in the character that was used prior to 1864 when it was the Shogun's hangout. Didn't get maker info completed.

It was stolen, abused further by the thief (he allowed the tip to rust  :Mad:  ), I got it back. Realized I had a problem: it needed an $800+ polish job, over $1500 in furniture, and THEN I'd have a wallhanger instead of the "beater" I was trying to get in the first place.

Bill Martino's father-in-law was visiting from Nepal - he runs the blacksmith shop in Kathmandu that supplies HI. I show 'em this thing, we sketched out a design for a grip that would use "Khukuri construction techniques" and would otherwise be an order of magnitude tougher than Japanese practice.

That raw blade as a template now hangs on the wall in the shop in Kathmandu  :Big Grin: . I got the first copy  :Cool: .

They didn't TEST it to destruction. They did however modify the tang to check various options  :Frown:  and in doing so pounded out the original Japanese markings :banghead:. We'll never know who made it.

Doesn't matter. The versions in 5160 HI is doing *rock*. A bit funky, full of personality, brutally tough and well balanced.


Jim March August 9th, 2004, 05:52 PM
Right. Well of the cheap-but-functional blades we're talking about here, there's two categories:

1) "Plain high carbon" steels like 1040/1060 can make a good sword. You have to "differentially temper" them which means, in a Katana, a softer spine, harder edge. Paul Chen gets there with a process similar to the classic Japanese bladesmiths: coat the blade with different thicknesses and types of clay, so that the spine is softer. With these steels, you get a clearly visible "hamon", or temper line, a clearly visible border between the harder and softer areas.

They might be "plain high carbon" but they're still at least starting out with better raw steel than the old Japanese smiths had. The old Japanese smiths folded the steel over and over and over again in a tremendous effort to get something good out of basically crapola steel. Most used the folding process to basically add carbon content to their low-grade, high-sulpher "steel" that was barely a step up from "pig iron" :scrutiny:.

2) 5160 is a borderline tool steel still classed as "high carbon". It's GREAT stuff. Used by a variety of 3rd world makers as there's a relatively ready source worldwide: automotive junkyards. Yup. Leaf and coil springs  :Smilie: . HI goes one better: they've learned that the best materials comes from crashed Mercedes or Volvo truck springs  :Big Grin: . A few other makers (Albion I think?) are using brand new 5160 and advertising it as such, and that's fine...there's no significant difference based on the source of the 5160.

Kris Cutlery in the Philippines uses this a lot, and it's all HI uses as noted.

This is a KILLER steel for big knives and swords. Good edgeholding, ridiculously tough, can be bent like it was a big spring.

There's just one problem: while you CAN definitely do a differential temper (hard edge, soft spine) and HI does, you generally can't see the borderline. So there's no "hamon" so critical in the eyes of the Japanese to good sword aesthetics. Differential tempers are easier to do with 5160 - HI's blacksmiths pour water on the hot edge with a tea kettle to control which areas of the blade will be hard.

Doesn't matter to me! A good 5160 blade like the Everest Katana from HI is an order of magnitude tougher than a Paul Chen or basically anything else this side of $3000 to $5000, at which price point there's some American smiths making custom Katanas out of genuine tool steel like A2 and L6. Even then, I doubt their grips are the sort of Khukuri-engineered critters like HI does."


Anthony,

I still stand behind the quality of the H.I. Katana! It's been a while since I wrote the initial testing of that sword. Nice blade. The heat treatment is very consistent and will not fail the owner. I mean the sword is designed for cutting flesh, not trees. The H.I. Katanas have their own distinctive personalities, it is not a traditional Nihonto, but an interpretation.

The other swords that I have used/ have:

1. Kris Cutlery Katana (normal production) - great sword for the price.

2. Kris Cutlery High end Combat Kat - High end sword, traditional styling and can be disassembled, slightly higher in price but feels real good. Cuts bone and meat with ease!

3. Bugei Bamboo Kat - good sword, but needed to be re-polished to extract maximum cutting power.

4. Howard Clark L6 Kat - Awesome katana, great for swordsmen who wants alot of blade flexibility/ strength, but edge holding abilities is somewhat decreased. Great sword and Smith.

5. My pride and joy - My Michael Bell forged cable Katana. This puppy is my family sword, and cuts like no tomorrow!!! This was made for my son when he gets of age, and so, I need to commission Michael to make another one for my new son! 

All great swords, and a couple H.I. Everest Katanas will be included into my sword collection soon.

he Everest Katana is something special though . Basically, the Khukuri-derived grip actually balances correctly because it's a "stick tang" running lengthwise through a cylindrical wood grip, pinned at the butt and floating in epoxy. It has impressive recoil-absorbing properties, it's fairly light and it's tough as nails...and the total tang weight and overall blade heft is similar to Japanese practice.


About...<scratches head and counts on fingers>...seven years ago, I decided I wanted a battle-ready sword of Japanese type. So I headed for the nearest gun show, and found a nice-condition Japanese *blade only* for $300, purported to be early 20th Century when the Japanese ramped up sword production both for new military officers and as part of a "revival of the Bushido spirit", sort of the "psychological prep for WW2". The edge was straight, it was slightly discolored but no rust, and I figured I'd be able to homebrew up a grip and leather sheath myself. Blades of that era and type don't have a whole lot of collector value.

So about a year later, I was just getting around to building the mounting hardware, and showed it to a friend who'd spent some time in Japan and knew some Japanese. By luck, he'd spent time in Kyoto, and new the character for the city plus some of the history of the area.

In examining the tang marks, he found the mark for Kyoto, but then got all excited...because the character was in reverse from modern practice.

The town's name was reversed after the Shogun's defeat at Kyoto in 1864 I think it was? Rather a memorable time in Japanese history - basically, the Portuguese figured the Shogun was a psycho, armed the Emperor in Tokyo with 10,000 muskets and watched as he eventually piled about 10,000 Samurai heads in a big pile in Kyoto, where the Shogun had been. Note past tense, his head was somewhere in the pile. To mark the occasion, they changed the town's name (you'da thunk the big pile of heads at the Shogun's old castle would have been enough ).

Point is, that marked my blade as being genuine Edo (late Bushido era) period - a real "Samurai sword". It also had a feature not found on various imitations, a "battle bulge" where the spine just behind the tip flares out and makes for a tougher, armor-piercing tip. That and the fact that the tang hole for the grip pin was punched versus drilled further verified it's originality.

Great. Just great. I didn't *WANT* an antique. Proper mounting hardware and scabbard would have run $2,000 minimum, at which point I'd have something worth at least $3,000 or more. But still a wall-hanger.

Sigh.

Well I sat on it for a while, and then a roommate stole it . I finally found out where it went years later, and demanded it back - I got it alright, but the damn fool had stored it tip-down in a closet and the last 1/4" of the tip rusted <grrr!!!>. So now I had to add a $900 polish job to what it needed, at which point I'd barely break even if that.

Meanwhile got ahold of one of Bill Martino's Khukuris, a nice 21" overall "combat type", longer and skinnier than the Ang Khola "utility pattern", and was very impressed with their craftsmanship.

I talked to Bill Martino more, and found out more of his story. He had gone to Nepal as a younger dude in the Peace Corps and had gone "very native", converting to Buddhism, marrying into a Gurkha family, etc . He later came back to the US (Reno, NV) with his wife. He acts as an importer for his father-in-law back in Kathmandu, who had the best blacksmith shop in Nepal. They hand-picked the best smiths, put in power tools, and paid VERY high commission prices for some of the best Nepalese-style to come out since the 1800s.

So I heard that Bill's Nepalese father-in-law, the shop owner/foreman was coming over to Reno to visit his family. I talked to Bill and got myself invited over, and told 'em I'd be bringing a "special surprise".

Yup. You guessed it. It's my old blade hanging in the shop wall in Nepal that is the pattern for the Everest Katana. I sat down with Bill and his pop-in-law in Reno where we drew out the design for the grip, tsuba and sheath, and it was in the Pop's checked baggage back to Nepal."

So, That is what I know and have read about the Himalayan Imports Everest Katana.

I Do know the Head Kami at H.I  Is the Royal Bladesmith to The King of Nepal.

Please let me know what your thoughts are on this,
With Best Regards,
Ed Stites

----------


## Travis Nicko

I have absolutely no idea what you're going on about, Ed...haven't the foggiest.  :Confused:  I see absolutely NO resemblance between this sword you keep mentioning and a katana (besides the curved blade, & "tsuba").

----------


## michael wilson

Travis I think Ed's reffering to the Nepal company using his nihonto for the basic design of the everest blade and nakago , 



 :Big Grin:

----------


## michael wilson

_Point is, that marked my blade as being genuine Edo (late Bushido era) period - a real "Samurai sword". It also had a feature not found on various imitations, a "battle bulge" where the spine just behind the tip flares out and makes for a tougher, armor-piercing tip._ 


That bulge at the mune of the kissaki is just the cross section of the kissaki at the yokote I think 

every production katana ive had apart from a PPK had this flared section at the mune  - and that includes low end practical pro katana , cold steel katana and a paul chen musashi and bushido kats that ive still got here .

----------


## Travis Nicko

...I didn't pick up on that at ALL.  :Wink:  I thought he was maybe quoting someone who was either involved with the design of this thing or had reviewed it or something. I personally can't see how its based at all on nihonto.

----------


## michael wilson

No problem Travis 

Its a bit like the 1st Matrix movie  - the more times you see it the more that is revealed  :Smilie: 

your spot on though  - its not very nihonto-esque
is it .

----------


## J Cooper

> i used bricks, concrete blocks, ceramic tile, posts (maybe 4x4, can't recall), branches, saplings, bamboo, and straw mats all as cutting mediums with the bwt (technically, i used anything i could find in the barn of the farmstead i was living at at the time). the blade's finish was ruined, but there was *no* chipping at all to the edge. it had rather heavy niku; like bordering on a secondary bevel. not traditional, but for what it is, it's pretty spot on. saya was one of the better production saya i've seen as far as shaping and fit, although finish was. . . ok. kissaki was lightyears ahead of other brands *at the time*. being that my model was about five years ago, i hope they haven't changed too much.
> 
> .


Wow, sorry to resurrect an old thread but what sword is the BWT? What you described sounds like you were handling a HC L6 blade. Really interested in finding out more..

----------


## Hori T.

Having read these posts would the Citadel swords not actually fit into this as they are not production swords. They are hand made in small quantities and each peaice is hand made and mounted except for the cast of antique menuki?

----------


## Glen C.

Hi Hori,

There have been long and hard fought debates on what exactly constitutes a custom sword. Hand made, bench made and other terms or perceptions of shop work really does put much of Citadel products in a production atmosphere, even if there is fair variance between any two of a type. Citadel does produce large numbers of specific models, once again a production line no matter how one may view the shop. If it were a single man overseeing each specific item, sheer numbers of the product type (even if hand made) really does seem to me it is still a production shop with quite base similarities.

I have followed Citadel back to before the two katana models that used to be marketed through Museum Replicas (Windlass subsidiary) and first noted them in a company named A.G.Russell and that "Cutting Edge" paper catalog selling some tanto and at that time a few medieval western swords. In personal discussion with Russell, he was kind of closed lip but indicated they could provide just about any variety of blade. If I recall correctly, if you run a search here for Citadel in the General discussion area, you will come across my mentioning it way back when and then following up a bit with Mike Crampton, who was supposed to be at the time the only American business to be selling what were individual and somewhat unique swords but at the same time seeing those two mainstay models persistent over some years (Yoshi? and ???, you know the dark one and the orange/red saya job).

In the end, I personally still view the Citadel effort as a production shop and the swords in the same class as the upper crust of any of the bigger forges.

The "What do you consider Custom" might be a good stand alone thread to consider but kind of off the track from this old thread regarding "what's best". While not unworthy of a sidebar in this thread, the perception of what Citadel makes and markets the goods as is really yet another topic.

Cheers

Hotspur; _custom, to me, means a one person shop with a little help or partner but not someone making flocks of very similar goods. That becomes production, in my book_

----------


## Hori T.

Thanks Glen for you input to the matter, I can truly see where the hand made term or custom can play an important part in advertising, as all sword could be considered hand made. But the strain of what is custom can be disputed, I was just asking as to the statements as you have stated as well does having more direct hand work in them deem custom so even two of the same look models would be one different I guess as they would differ slightly. But to your comment I can see where the words could even apply to the likes of Hanwei as they have came along way to take better care of the hand work and finish of the mid to higher end blades. Thanks

----------


## Lovebell Forrest

> Just what it says. Whats your fav, why, and maybe a pic. Just want to see what everybody likes.


My fav cutter is my LL Taketoshi Jishin. It just feels right.

Most of the guys have Bugei, and some think I promote them a tad bit to much sometimes.
They are just to bulky for me to get any speed out of. Sensei's Dragonfly is wicked fast for him. Not for Me.

----------


## D. Hupfer

After much research, I purchased my first katana yesterday...   A Ronin Katana Dojo-Pro Model #5.  From my research, it's an incredible cutter and it's built like a tank from through-hardened 1060 steel.

----------


## Chakkravut Chinalai

There appears a definite trend towards Bugei. My favorite piece is my beloved Shobu Zukuri. I have just received a Samurai which I am more than a bit disappointed in due to the lack of niku.

Other fave production kats are the Hanwei Wind and Thunder, and for those who prefer something lighter which is still a great design for all intents and purposes, the Practical Pro Elite.
as QC is somewhat still an issue whith Hanwei, it would be necessary to purchase from a vendor with strict quality policies. IF you get a good specimen, these 2 (and I would include the cheaper Practical Pro) are monster cutters - on par with Bugei IMHO.
Cheers,

----------


## Alex Kakashi

> I have just received a Samurai which I am more than a bit disappointed in due to the lack of niku.


Strange that your samurai has little niku... :Confused:  but I have heard that there are some variances between blades. My samurai has quite obvious niku.

----------


## Chakkravut Chinalai

I have measure my Samurai's Ji with a ruler and it is flat with a tiny weeny bit of apple seeding near the edge but that's not Niku.
I have been talking to Susanne from Bugei about this and although they are concerned I can derive from the discussion that this is just an variance within parameters.
O well, it's a good kat with nice sori, so I will keep it, just not really what I expected from the description.

----------


## Dave Drawdy

a recent blade I purchased from Scott Irey tops my list of production blades.  Not sure what he's calling them, and I don't know who his smith is.  He should be posting some info about them soon.  He orders the blades and mounts them, mounts are all custom, (very nice work by Dan Keupp and Goya Kenny), so it may be closer to a semi-custom than a true production blade.  Blade shape was sweet, mounts were hot.  Price was way too reasonable  :Smilie:   .  I bought it at the West Coast tai kai and used it for the first time that same night at in an embu.  and cut a bit with it right after.  It did great.  

Dave

----------

