# Communities > Antique Arms & Armour Community > Antique & Military Sword Forum >  Replacement P1796 LC grip

## Ian Knight

I plan to fabricate a leather covered wooden grip (beech or obeche) for a British P1796 light cavalry sabre. The back strap has no 'ears'.
If any members have any tips for the construction I would be very interested to hear them. I have a couple of questions:
Would it be best to make the grip in two halves, cut out the slots for the tang and then glue the halves together or is there an easy way to make the grip in one piece and bore out the slot for the tang?
Is it be best to cut the ribs directly on the wooden grip or would it be easier to wrap the grip with cord and then cover with leather? I have seen both of these methods used on other P1796 swords that I have owned.
Any help would be most welcome.
Ian

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## A.Ducote

> I plan to fabricate a leather covered wooden grip (beech or obeche) for a British P1796 light cavalry sabre. The back strap has no 'ears'.
> If any members have any tips for the construction I would be very interested to hear them. I have a couple of questions:
> Would it be best to make the grip in two halves, cut out the slots for the tang and then glue the halves together or is there an easy way to make the grip in one piece and bore out the slot for the tang?
> Is it be best to cut the ribs directly on the wooden grip or would it be easier to wrap the grip with cord and then cover with leather? I have seen both of these methods used on other P1796 swords that I have owned.
> Any help would be most welcome.
> Ian


Ian,

You might consider contacting Tom Nardi.   I believe he told me that he has made a 1796 LC grip for a replacement sword.   I think he had a pattern for it.  He may be able to make you a generic grip that can be adapted to your sword.

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## Ian Knight

> Ian,
> 
> You might consider contacting Tom Nardi.   I believe he told me that he has made a 1796 LC grip for a replacement sword.   I think he had a pattern for it.  He may be able to make you a generic grip that can be adapted to your sword.


Thank you Andre.
Ian

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## Will Mathieson

Hi Ian, I have used Nardi,s grips, made from some kind of resin, easy to work with. The trick is to fit the grip snug to the tang. You can make a steel copy of the tang, then serrate it so it works like a file, will work easily on this grip material. I have used thin black leather with at least 1" of excess, once wet and wrapped with string over the grip, microwave no longer than 30 seconds. Watch as you do it because the leather shrinks quickly. Some may cringe at this but it really makes the leather tight and smooth to the grip and speeds up drying time. The leather will look smooth and hard like original ones, just add Renaissance wax.
I am shure there are many other ways to do this and I would like to hear other ideas.

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## WBranner

Unless you're an avid do-it-yourselfer, you might see what he would charge to do the whole thing. I can vouch for the job he did on fitting a grip for me and I thought his price was more than reasonable.

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## Ian Knight

Thank you for the input guys. I think I would prefer to either buy or make a grip which is constructed from materials that would have been used on the original sabre. 
Ian

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## A.Ducote

Im not a woodworker, but it would seem to me that the difficulty in making a 1796 LC or HC grip would come in the correctly getting the curvature of the piece.   It makes a rather shallow dip to the backstrap towards the pommel.

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## Ian Knight

I will make templates from other P1796 LC sabres that I own. The problem that I envisage is the cutting of the slot for the tang. That is why I think that starting the grip with two halves of wood might be the easier option. I can then cut out half of the depth of the tang from each piece and then glue them together. 
I have contacted Tom Nardi. He doesn't produce a sword grip for a P1796 LC sabre. He advised me to buy a scrap P1796 sword and use the grip from that. 
Ian

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## Mark Cain

Ian:

In the woodworking world, there's a tool called a mortising chisel and bit that is designed to drill through wood as you are suggesting. It's essentially a drill bit surrounded by a square chisel, which you mount in a drill press/pillar drill. The bit removes most of the material and the chisel follows the bit's lead, taking out the corners of the cylinder left by the bit (that's not a great description, but do a search for "mortising chisel and bit" and you will better understand how it works). The tool comes in various sizes -- 1/4-inch is probably what you would need -- but it requires some careful set-up and clamping on the drill press. Because of the taper of the tang, you would likely need to drill two angled mortises side-by-side on one end of the grip so they would meet where the tang starts to bend. Another single mortise cut from the other end and angled to accommodate the curve in the tang would give you the opening, which you could then open-up as needed with narrow files. 

I did this when fabricating a grip for a cheap reproduction sword owned by the son of a friend. I would suggest not using a hardwood for the grip; it's much more challenging to cut. Also, it would likely be easier to make the slot first in a large block of wood (because it would be more stable on the drill press and easier to position and clamp), and then reduce the block to suit the grip profile.

Mark

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## Ian Knight

Thanks very much for that Mark.
Ian

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## niall dignan

Ian.
 Your solution to make the grip in two pieces is the best one.The problem is the tang is tapered and probably square shouldered so boring would be difficult.Mark the tang on one slab and carefully rebate it to the full depth of the tang.Get the best fit you can.The other slab can then be glued on.I would suggest using traditional hide or pearl glue,its very reversible and would be contempory.Its a little bit more complicated,but who wants to do things the easy way.Some 'sharp' carving gouges and a bit of practice will do the grips.Be sure and use a vice or some other holdfast.
  The first one is always the hardest.Think, could be an opening out there??
 p.s. Wooden scabbards are usually made in two parts.

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## Ian Knight

Thanks Niall. I think I am leaning towards this method rather than boring a hole for the tang out of a solid piece of wood. I may actually have a go at both methods to see which one is the most successful.
I used to own a P1796 LC sabre which had lost a little of its leather grip covering. Underneath the leather the grip was wrapped in a thickish cord to create the ribbed effect. This might be an easier method rather than cutting the ribs out of the wood. Again, I might try both methods.
Taking orders shortly. :Smilie: 
Ian

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## niall dignan

Ian.If you weren't confident with chisels, wood rasps would do the job very well.There's a wide range available.Beech would work nicely with these.The cord method is very feasible also.I would suggest marking and filing a light spiral groove to act as a guide.A size of glue would fix it.Looks like your going to experiment to get the best solution.You'll certainly be a wiser man when your done.I'm sure it will look great as well,you might keep us posted.

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## Ian Knight

> Ian.If you weren't confident with chisels, wood rasps would do the job very well.There's a wide range available.Beech would work nicely with these.The cord method is very feasible also.I would suggest marking and filing a light spiral groove to act as a guide.A size of glue would fix it.Looks like your going to experiment to get the best solution.You'll certainly be a wiser man when your done.I'm sure it will look great as well,you might keep us posted.


I certainly will Niall. Thanks for your help and advice.
Ian

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## gordon byrne

Hi Ian,

It seems you have more than enough advice on the best way to make and fit the grip to the tang.

I have personally restored the grip and covering on one 1796 Heavy Cavalry troopers sword, one 1796 Light Cavalry troopers sword and one early military basket hilt sword. 

In my opinion, the most critical aspect of any such restoration is the finished shape of the grip, which will either make or break your restoration; on an equal footing with the shape of the grip, is attention to the finished appearence of the riveting of the tang and the rivet through the grip, with the overall patina of the new work, with an old sword given careful consideration as well.

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## Ian Knight

Thanks Gordon. Luckily there is no rivet through the tang as the back strap is plain with no 'ears'. I will shape the grip carefully to match other P1796 swords that I own.
Ian

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## Will Mathieson

Her is a pic of an older replacement grip, I believe using twine/rope under the leather. Has a good shape.


http://s697.photobucket.com/albums/v...6LCgrip002.jpg

http://s697.photobucket.com/albums/v...6LCgrip003.jpg

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## R. Lowe

Due to the shape of the grip we would probably have made the grip in two halves, glued together and then shaped the grip.

Cut the wire grooves into the grip rather than trying to build them up with cord.

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## Ian Knight

> Her is a pic of an older replacement grip, I believe using twine/rope under the leather. Has a good shape.
> 
> 
> http://s697.photobucket.com/albums/v...6LCgrip002.jpg
> 
> http://s697.photobucket.com/albums/v...6LCgrip003.jpg


That looks excellent Will. I hope mine looks as good.
Ian

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## Ian Knight

> Due to the shape of the grip we would probably have made the grip in two halves, glued together and then shaped the grip.
> 
> Cut the wire grooves into the grip rather than trying to build them up with cord.


Thanks Richard. I have already made a start. I have cut the slot for the tang in one piece of beech and glued the other to it. 
Ian

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## Will Mathieson

How about an update on the progress. Always interested. Photos?? I wrote one thread "sword grip preservation". Did you see it? ofcourse not needed for this project type. The stuff works really well with damaged grips.. 
Good luck!

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## Ian Knight

Hello Will,
Yes, I did see your thread on the use of Paraloid B72. It would be very useful to fill in an area of loss and I may try it on on of my other P1796 sabres which has lost a small area of grip near the pommel, as many of them do.

I have cut the basic shape of my grip after cutting the slot for the tang in one half of wood and gluing another piece to it. I have also cut and shaped the area under the ferrule. My next step is to plane the wood to size on the top and sides and get the back strap/pommel to fit. I will then shape the underside of the grip and round off the entire grip to the final ergonomic shape. Finally I will cut out or file the ribs. 
I am on hold at the moment because my vice has broken. :-(
Ian

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## niall dignan

You can never have enough vices,Ian. :Big Grin:

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## Ian Knight

> You can never have enough vices,Ian.


Totally agree Niall :Wink: 
Ian

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## R. Lowe

What are you covering the grip with? Make sure you allow for the thickness of whatever grip covering you're going to use. 

A set of callipers is particularly useful to make sure you get all the sections of the grip the same size as the original. 

A coarse half round metal file is very handy for removing decent amounts of wood when you're forming the shape of the grip. 

The other tip is to mount a spike  in the vice and slide the grip onto that rather than holding the grip in the vice. You can then get access all the way round the grip with your file and spin the grip as you file to keep the curves flowing. 





> Hello Will,
> Yes, I did see your thread on the use of Paraloid B72. It would be very useful to fill in an area of loss and I may try it on on of my other P1796 sabres which has lost a small area of grip near the pommel, as many of them do.
> 
> I have cut the basic shape of my grip after cutting the slot for the tang in one half of wood and gluing another piece to it. I have also cut and shaped the area under the ferrule. My next step is to plane the wood to size on the top and sides and get the back strap/pommel to fit. I will then shape the underside of the grip and round off the entire grip to the final ergonomic shape. Finally I will cut out or file the ribs. 
> I am on hold at the moment because my vice has broken. :-(
> Ian

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## Ian Knight

Thank you for your tips and advice Richard. I am going to cover the grip with skiver leather.
Ian

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## Will Mathieson

I now what it's like to have your vice break. Those cast iron ones are poor when it comes to real usage. The old blacksmith type that are about 2 1/2' long, are steel and will not break, is what to look for at auction. I glue 1/4'' leather pieces as jaws to my vice and it prevents marking the work, however that vice is cast iron but not used for torque.
Good luck on the grip!

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## Ian Knight

I bought a new Workmate workbench a few days ago so I decided to do a bit of work on the grip. After a lot of planing and filing this is how far I have got, and I am quite pleased with the result so far. I still have to do a little final shaping, reducing the overall size slightly to allow for the leather covering. Before covering the grip, I also have to cut the ribs in the grip with a small round file. 

Ian

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## Will Mathieson

Your patience is paying off, looks great! I'm shure if you made several you would have no problem with others wanting them. I am not familiar with the type of leather you say you are using, what is special about it, or is it just a term I have not herd?

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## Ian Knight

Thanks Will. It actuall feels right in the hand, even it is not close to being finished yet. 
I was advised that skiver leather is the best covering to use. It is fine sheep leather. 
I'm not sure that it would be possible to make these grips without having the actual sword to work from. It took me a long time to accurately shape the wood to fit the backstrap. 
I have four P1796 LC swords and the backstraps and I am sure the tangs, all vary in size and shape slightly. There wouldn't be a bog standard, off the shelf grip size to fit all P1796s.
Ian

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## Dmitry Z~G

Outstanding work!!! Looks wonderful.
Where will you be sourcing the leather?
BTW, does anyone know of a source for the ray skin or shark skin?

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## Ian Knight

Thanks Dimitry,
I am ordering an undyed 12" square offcut from: http://www.edenworkshops.com/Undyed_...okbinders.html
I will then dye it using fabric dye.
I think that it can be sourced quite easily. This small piece is costing £10 incl P&P.

Ian

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## Dmitry Z~G

Will you be dyeing it after you stretch it on the grip, or before?
If the dye is water-based you may want to do it after it's formed, since you will be wetting the leather prior to forming it to the grip, will you not?

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## niall dignan

This thread is getting very interesting,Ian.A gripping tale,you could say.It's going well so far.I look forward to the next episode.

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## Ian Knight

> This thread is getting very interesting,Ian.A gripping tale,you could say.It's going well so far.I look forward to the next episode.


Stay tuned Niall.  :Wink: 
Ian

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## Ian Knight

> Will you be dyeing it after you stretch it on the grip, or before?
> If the dye is water-based you may want to do it after it's formed, since you will be wetting the leather prior to forming it to the grip, will you not?


Good point Dmitry. I will consult the supplier.
Ian

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## R. Lowe

Looks good!

If you can, bearing in mind that you will have to shorten the grip slightly to allow for the leather, creat a ridge on the top of the grip that slots inside the top of the backstrap. It helps locate the backstrap on the grip and stops it slipping on the top of the grip when you tighten up the top nut. If i haven't explained that very well, let me know. 

I'd suggest using a hacksaw blade to cut the wire grooves into the grip to the depth that you want them. Then use a file to open out the grooves. Using the saw blade to create the wire grooves gives you a guide and stops the wire groove 'drifting' which tends to happen if you just use a file. 

I'm surprised you haven't been able to get pre dyed skiver, but if we needed to change the colour of a grip we would use a shoe leather dye that is sold to allow you to change the colour of shoes. That way you know exactly what colour you'll get. Fabric dye isn't strong enough to really change the colour of the skiver whereas shoe leaether dye is more like a paint that also soaks in to the leather.

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## Ian Knight

> Looks good!
> 
> If you can, bearing in mind that you will have to shorten the grip slightly to allow for the leather, creat a ridge on the top of the grip that slots inside the top of the backstrap. It helps locate the backstrap on the grip and stops it slipping on the top of the grip when you tighten up the top nut. If i haven't explained that very well, let me know. 
> 
> I'd suggest using a hacksaw blade to cut the wire grooves into the grip to the depth that you want them. Then use a file to open out the grooves. Using the saw blade to create the wire grooves gives you a guide and stops the wire groove 'drifting' which tends to happen if you just use a file. 
> 
> I'm surprised you haven't been able to get pre dyed skiver, but if we needed to change the colour of a grip we would use a shoe leather dye that is sold to allow you to change the colour of shoes. That way you know exactly what colour you'll get. Fabric dye isn't strong enough to really change the colour of the skiver whereas shoe leaether dye is more like a paint that also soaks in to the leather.


Thank you very much for your advice Richard. I was wondering about the best method to start creating the grooves.
I have tried a number of leather suppliers but they mostly want to sell you a whole skin, which is expensive. I have managed to buy a cheap un-dyed off-cut. I will treat it how you suggest and see how it looks, it it doesn't please, then I can remove it and try again. 
Should I wet the leather before applying it to the grip? What is the best glue to use? 
The tang will need peening when re-assembling the sabre. It doesn't have a top nut. I might ask Pooley sword if they can do this for me.
Ian

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## R. Lowe

We used to use ordinary PVA glue. You might want to water the glue down a bit depending on how thick the PVA is. 

Whether the leather needs to be wet or not depends on how thick and stretchy the skiver is. Skiver is usually pretty thin and stetchy and if it is stretchy you won't need to wet the leather. If you can aovid wetting it, do so because if you wet the weather it will shrink as it dries and may pull.

You want to give both the back of the leather and the grip a good coat of PVA and ensure you get a slight overlap of the leather at the back of the grip. Then use string (preferably a plastic string that doesn't stretch) and bind the leather to the grip using the string to stretch the leather into the wire gooves. It may take you a couple of goes to get the size of the piece of leather right and judge how much the leather will stretch. 

You will need to take quite a bit of wood off that grip to get it down to the right size with the leather on. You'll probably have to do this a couple of times as i virtually guarantee you won't take enough wood off the first time  :Smilie:  Make sure the leather goes under the ferrule and over the top of the grip (ie where the pommel would be if it didn't have a backstrap with integral pommel). 

If the end of the tang is to be peened, its even more important to make sure the top of the grip has a ledge that the backstrap can sit on to help locate it. You also want to make sure there is space under the backstrap for an undernut. If there is not much space you should be able to get hold of a half thickness nut or get one turned down or domed on a lathe

Assuming you have taken the sword apart, is there actually enough tang left sticking through the backstrap to repeen it over? If not then a Pooley blacksmith will need to heat the tang and hammer it out a bit to make it longer. That will in turn change the shape of the tang so it may then need raking out internally to make it fit again. We used to have some old sword tangs that had had rought saw teeth cut into the edge of the tang to use as a rake for this purpose, but the other way to do it is with a metal drill bit in piller drill. You can then use the end of the drill bit as a router to remove the excess material. 

The other thing you'll need to do is wire the grip. You also need to cut a bit of a groove in the back of the grip to accomodate the wire and stop the wire holding the grip off the backstrap. At the start of the wire drill a small hole about the same size as a matchstick. Push the end of the wire into the whole and them hammer in a matchstick coated with PVA to trap the wire. At the other end of the grip you need to keep the wire tight so lay the end of the wire over a small hole but keep the tension on it. The again hammer  a matchstick in to push a doubled over loop of wire into the hole. That way you keep the tension on the wire. 

Check that the shoe dye gives you the finish you're after on a scrap of leather first, but wait until the leather is on the grip before staining it. Once the leather is on the grip you can file down the areas that won't be seen (such as under the ferrule and behind the backstrap) if the leather ends up too thick after gluing. If you accidentily go through the surface of the leather anywhere or there is any bare wood anywhere then this will be covered by the leather stain as the wood will also take the leather stain. 

Don't hesitate to ask any more questions if i can be of any further help.

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## Ian Knight

Superb Richard, thank you so much. I am sure that this information will also be of much use to others looking to make their own grips.
There is about 2-4mm of the tang visible when the sabre is assembled (The sword is in parts). I will try to make sure that I reduce the grip enough so that this amount of tang is still visible when the grip is covered with leather.
The skiver leather that I have ordered is very thin at 0.3mm so I should need to reduce the size too much.
I have part of a the grip from a P1796 sabre and the grip has a 'flat' on the top. I assume this is what you mean regarding the ledge.
The sabre is a trooper's P1796 LC sword and so I assume that the grip wouldn't normally be wired. 
Ian

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## Robert Wilkinson-Latham

Ian
This is what Richard is talking about at the top of the grip. Sorry for the bad picture but you get the idea. the postion above the rough line I have drawn is where the tang appears and sits inside the dome of the backpiece and pommel.



and 


It is an old RN grip I have in my junk box!
Robert
PS So far it looks superb!

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## Ian Knight

Thanks Robert,
I have shaped mine as the photo and the same as an old broken P1796 grip that I have. 
Ian

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## Rob O'Reilly

Here's one I did.  You'll note the ridge in question which occupies much of the volume under the pommel.

Rob

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## Ian Knight

> Here's one I did.  You'll note the ridge in question which occupies much of the volume under the pommel.
> 
> Rob


Superb grip Rob. 
I didn't quite grasp what Robert and Richard meant by the ridge.  :Embarrassment:  I can see it on your grip. Now that I have removed this part of the grip I will have to use an undernut as Richard suggests.
I have been working to an old grip that I have, which doesn't have the ridge in question. See photo.
Before I start marking and cutting the ridges in the grip is there a favoured amount of ribs? I have seen P1796s with as few as six but as many as 12 ribs.
Ian

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## R. Lowe

You could always let a new piece of wood into the back of the grip and glue it in if your woodworking skills are up to it (and they look like they are).

The other option is to shorten the back strap slightly by filing the area that fits in behind the ferrule. Then you can create the ridge in your grip. It only needs to be a couple of mm deep to just help locate the backstrap.

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## Ian Knight

Richard,
I will see if I can let in a piece on the pommel end. I don't think that I can reduce the length of the grip any more. 
Should I make the piece domed so that it fills the inside of the pommel?
Ian

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## R. Lowe

If you've got the space and you're going to use an undernut, you want the top of the grip to be flat. Otherwise it doesn't matter. The ridge is there to locate the top of the backstrap and stop it sliding off the top of the grip. Whether it fills the void in the top of the  back strap doesn't make any difference. 

A nut holding the sword together is much more secure than a peen as the hammering involved in a peen can shake the hilt loose and you end up with play. The other option is to use a taper nut to hold the hilt together that you then dress into the backstrap and peen flat. But i'm sure authenticity is important to you and i can't remember how the back strap is held on on this particular sword design.

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## Ian Knight

Thank you Richard,
I have three other P1796 LC swords and the tangs are all peened over.
Ian

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## Ian Knight

Making this grip has made me realise why you see so many P1796 grips broken near the pommel. The thickness of wood where the tang passes close to the narrowest part of the grip is only 1-2mm thick. Because the direction of the grain runs parallel with the tang this creates a weak spot underneath the pommel, where your smallest finger rests. Any bang to the pommel area could result in the wood splitting and breaking off the 'dove's head' of the grip. 
See photos. Typical P1796 LC grip damage. You can see how close the tang is to the surface of the grip.
Ian

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## Will Mathieson

I would suggest if the sword has a makers mark, to copy another sword of the same maker for the number of ribs. Most likely the sword is unmarked, find one that is very close in design and use the same number? Or, do you have a lucky number? Using a smaller number of ribs you can make them more pronounced/deeper. My 1796 has 11 raised ribs, but the method used was twine over wood, not carved in. Nearest the pommel there are no ribs, about the last inch. Pick the number that your favourite maker used for his?

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## Ian Knight

> I would suggest if the sword has a makers mark, to copy another sword of the same maker for the number of ribs. Most likely the sword is unmarked, find one that is very close in design and use the same number? Or, do you have a lucky number? Using a smaller number of ribs you can make them more pronounced/deeper. My 1796 has 11 raised ribs, but the method used was twine over wood, not carved in. Nearest the pommel there are no ribs, about the last inch. Pick the number that your favourite maker used for his?


Thanks Will,
The sabre is by Woolley & Co. I have seen Woolley sabres with varying amounts of ribs, but I think I am going to go with 10 or 11.
Ian

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## Will Mathieson

Funny, I just traded a sword for a 1780 cavalry Wolley& Co sword. Some references date Wooley & Co to 1790-1797. I contacted Harvey Withers and his reference Swords for Sea Service dates Wooley to 1785-1797. The grip is fishskin over twine for the ribs. The reference I do not have but I am told it is expensive, too bad there is not a reprint or reproduced on a website.

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## Ian Knight

Hello Will,
I have just bought another sword at auction for restoration (another new grip).  :EEK!:  That too is Woolley & Co. 

Latest installment:
I have settled on 10 ribs for the grip. The ribs are nearly finished and I have managed to cut the 'ridge' into the grip to receive the pommel. Just the leather covering to be applied.
Ian

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## Mark Cloke

Fascinating thread Ian.  I am really enjoying seeing how this process works and it looks like you have made a very nice grip.  With regard to the tang how did you manage to remove the backpiece ready for the grip and still have the tang protuding ready for peening (if that is the right word)?  Or am I missing something?

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## Mark Cloke

> I contacted Harvey Withers and his reference Swords for Sea Service dates Wooley to 1785-1797. .


 


> The reference I do not have but I am told it is expensive, too bad there is not a reprint or reproduced on a website.


Swords for Sea service and a few other references were used as the initial building blocks for the makers list on my site (www.oldswords.com).  Since then I have corrected mistakes, added new makers and performed additional research.  Every maker that was in SforSS is on my site.  Growing all the time.
(apologies for the plug :Wink: )

I think the dates for 'Woolley and Co.' needed to be taken loosly.  James Woolley had a number of partners between about 1790 and about 1834 and he didn't always list his partners names in trade directories, official corrspondents or marks.

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## Ian Knight

> Fascinating thread Ian.  I am really enjoying seeing how this process works and it looks like you have made a very nice grip.  With regard to the tang how did you manage to remove the backpiece ready for the grip and still have the tang protuding ready for peening (if that is the right word)?  Or am I missing something?


Thanks Mark,
I actually bought the sword for David Critchley via the classified section. The sword was in parts and the tang was already protruding though the pommel. 
Whoever opened the sword obviously knew what he or she was doing. Apparently the tang can be lengthened by heating and hammering. 
Another method of lengthening the tang, but only as a last resort, is to file down the shoulders of the backpiece slightly where it meets the ferrule, thereby allowing more tang to protrude through the pommel.
It sounds like I am a bit of an expert but all the knowledge that I have gained is due mainly to the help given to me by SFI members, in particular Robert Wilkinson-Latham and Richard Lowe.

Ian

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## Matt Easton

You've made a really really nice job of that so far Ian, well done!
Matt

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## Ian Knight

> You've made a really really nice job of that so far Ian, well done!
> Matt




Thanks Matt,
Now comes the tricky part. Applying the leather to the grip and hoping that the sword all goes together again afterwards.  :Frown: 
Ian

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## Ian Knight

Almost there, just the finishing touches to go.

Ian

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## J.G. Hopkins

Ian,
I am very impressed!  The grip looks perfect.  So when does your grip-making business officially open?   :Smilie: 

Jonathan

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## Ian Knight

> Ian,
> I am very impressed!  The grip looks perfect.  So when does your grip-making business officially open?  
> 
> Jonathan


Thanks Jonathan,
I'm quite pleased as its my first attempt. I just need to find a way to 'age' the leather a bit.
Taking orders soon.  :Wink:  (only joking!)

I am taking delivery of another P1796 in need of a new grip tomorrow. See below.

Ian

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## Dmitry Z~G

Wonderful! You are a modest man.

Did you wet the leather prior to forming it to the grip? What type of glue did you use? I am especially pleased to see that the leather didn't bunch up on the "head" of the grip.

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## R. Lowe

> Almost there, just the finishing touches to go.
> 
> Ian


Looks like you've done an excellent job Ian. 

How long did you leave the grip bound before removing the binding? You should really leave it at least a couple of days at least or get the wire on ASAP to prevent the leather shrinking and pulling back out of the grooves as it dries. 

But it looks very professional.

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## Ian Knight

> Wonderful! You are a modest man.
> 
> Did you wet the leather prior to forming it to the grip? What type of glue did you use? I am especially pleased to see that the leather didn't bunch up on the "head" of the grip.


Thanks Dmitry,
No, I didn't wet the leather. I coated the leather and the grip with PVA glue, stretched & pushed the leather over the grip as well as I could and then bound it with cord. I 'pushed' the leather over the head of the grip as it dried.
The glue was drying as I applied the leather, so I had to be quick, but this also aided obtaining the compound curve. The glue makes the leather very stretchy.
Ian

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## Ian Knight

> Looks like you've done an excellent job Ian. 
> 
> How long did you leave the grip bound before removing the binding? You should really leave it at least a couple of days at least or get the wire on ASAP to prevent the leather shrinking and pulling back out of the grooves as it dries. 
> 
> But it looks very professional.


Thanks Richard,
I didn't leave it as long as I should have (about 6 hours) but I had previously done a practise run on a piece of scrap wood and leather. 
I was impatient to see what it looked like.  :Embarrassment:  I have since rebound it.
The sabre is a trooper's and so wouldn't have wire on the grip. 
Ian

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## R. Lowe

> Thanks Richard,
> I was impatient to see what it looked like.  I have since rebound it.
> The sabre is a trooper's and so wouldn't have wire on the grip. 
> Ian


 :EEK!:  i forgot about that!

Excellent work anyway.

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## Will Mathieson

Gilt and blueing??  Go all the way, I'm shure there will be a line up for the grips and more!, I forgot, lucky this one is a troopers sword, sans gilt and blue. The grip you made is great, I guess now there will be no hesitation to purchase swords without grips. I'm attending a militaria show this Sat. in Markham, Ont. and will keep an eye out for gripless swords! You have given me the inspiration needed, to attempt a grip from scratch.

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## Ian Knight

> Gilt and blueing??  Go all the way, I'm shure there will be a line up for the grips and more!, I forgot, lucky this one is a troopers sword, sans gilt and blue. The grip you made is great, I guess now there will be no hesitation to purchase swords without grips. I'm attending a militaria show this Sat. in Markham, Ont. and will keep an eye out for gripless swords! You have given me the inspiration needed, to attempt a grip from scratch.


Give it a try Will. It's not as difficult as you would imagine.  :Wink: 
I've just taken another British P1796 sabre apart today in preparation for regripping.
Below, before and after of my first project.

Ian

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## Dmitry Z~G

Ian, how are you going to secure the tang to the pommel?

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## Ian Knight

> Ian, how are you going to secure the tang to the pommel?


Hello Dmitry,
I'm going to whack it with a big hammer.  :Big Grin: 

I will leave it loose for the time being as I am using the grip as a 'model' for my next project. Eventually I will peen the tang over.
Ian

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## George Wheeler

Outstanding job Ian!

I am duly impressed with your restoration.

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## Ian Knight

> Outstanding job Ian!
> 
> I am duly impressed with your restoration.


That's very kind of you George, thank you. I enjoyed making it.
Ian

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## Matt Easton

Ian, you may already have experience peening things, but after peening a few things myself I've learnt a little bit and am happy to share tips if you need.

Matt

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## David Critchley

> Give it a try Will. It's not as difficult as you would imagine. 
> I've just taken another British P1796 sabre apart today in preparation for regripping.
> Below, before and after of my first project.
> 
> Ian


Really excellent job Ian

David

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## Ian Knight

> Ian, you may already have experience peening things, but after peening a few things myself I've learnt a little bit and am happy to share tips if you need.
> 
> Matt


Thanks Matt,
PM sent.
Ian

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## Ian Knight

> Really excellent job Ian
> 
> David


That's very kind of you David. 
Ian

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## Ian Knight

I just thought I would show my latest grip replacement project as many members would have seen the sword on the classified section a few months ago. 
The original grip was quite crude and too large.
I believe the markings to be that of the 2nd Portuguese cavalry regiment. 
I have yet to replace the rivet through the 'ears' into the tang.
The photos are before and after.  :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic): 

Ian

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## Will Mathieson

I have found what works for me when aligning existing holes to drill.
Drill about half way from each side, should meet well enough to run the pin through. This prevents enlarging the hole or creating a second beside it.
Also ensures the pin will be snug as you may not want to do too much peening. I'm shure you already know this, just putting it out there for future or beginning restorers.

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## Ian Knight

> I have found what works for me when aligning existing holes to drill.
> Drill about half way from each side, should meet well enough to run the pin through. This prevents enlarging the hole or creating a second beside it.
> Also ensures the pin will be snug as you may not want to do too much peening. I'm shure you already know this, just putting it out there for future or beginning restorers.


Thanks Will.
When I took the sword apart there was no hole for the rivet. On further investigation I could see that the tang had been repaired/replaced about a inch from the blade shoulders.
Ian

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## Will Mathieson

Most likely was weakened by the hole, maybe when someone tried to replace the grip previously. Is the tang long enough to be peened over the pommel?
I have sucessfully heated and hammered a tang to stretch it to length, no welding required, only takes a minute.

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## Ian Knight

> Most likely was weakened by the hole, maybe when someone tried to replace the grip previously. Is the tang long enough to be peened over the pommel?
> I have sucessfully heated and hammered a tang to stretch it to length, no welding required, only takes a minute.


The tang is just the correct length.
I have fitted the leather buffer between the blade and the guard not just over the blade. It makes the final fitting much more solid.
Ian

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## J.G. Hopkins

Ian,
Your new grip looks fantastic!  I am glad you bought the sword as you certainly did it justice.  Well done, and best of luck finding a scabbard for it.

Jonathan

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## DanR

Ian,

Well done....congratulations.

Dan

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## Ian Knight

Thanks guys. I might get around to writing detailed instructions with photos, during my next project.
This grip took me two days to make. Great care is required especially when tailoring to grip to fit the backpiece, removing a small amount of wood at a time. I don't have any suitable electric tools or facilities and so all the work was done using a saw, a small plane and various files and rasps.

Ian

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## niall dignan

> I don't have any suitable electric tools or facilities and so all the work was done using a saw, a small plane and various files and rasps.
> 
> Ian


Nice work,Ian.Projects like this are often as easily done without any electrical gagets,apart from a drill that is.Some times we're slaves to the 3 pin plug.More satisfying as well.Was your procedure the same as for the previous one ?

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## Ian Knight

> Nice work,Ian.Projects like this are often as easily done without any electrical gagets,apart from a drill that is.Some times we're slaves to the 3 pin plug.More satisfying as well.Was your procedure the same as for the previous one ?


Thanks Niall,
Yes, the procedure was the same apart from the fact that I cut most fingers on my left hand this time.  :Mad: 
I bought a dremel craft drill thinking that it would come in useful, but it didn't. You are correct, most of the procedures involved in making the grip don't lend themselves to the use of electric tools although I think a small sander would be handy.

Ian

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## Christopher Treichel

> I have found what works for me when aligning existing holes to drill.
> Drill about half way from each side, should meet well enough to run the pin through. This prevents enlarging the hole or creating a second beside it.
> Also ensures the pin will be snug as you may not want to do too much peening. I'm shure you already know this, just putting it out there for future or beginning restorers.


Nice thread... one tip about driling perfectly alinging holes... if you have to drill something at an interesting angle but still need it to line up... and you have a drill press with a vise (yes I did read that you have very few tools... even a small drill press is worth its weight in gold)...  take a piece of wood and pound a nail half way into it that is the same size as the hole you are drilling cut off the head and smooth it with a file... dril half way from one side... align nail in the piece of wood in your vise with the drill bit... insert the nail into the hole on the one side of your item and drill from the other side until the drill bit makes contact with the nail... Got that one out of "Recreating the American Long Rifle" that book has a lot of great wood and metalworking tips in it.

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## WBranner

I think this would be a good "sticky" post for this forum, the do-it-yourself forum and even better, an article. I've referred to it more than once and have seen others do so.

How about it Ian?

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## niall dignan

I had been thinking the same thing,  Great minds...etc.

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## Ian Knight

> I think this would be a good "sticky" post for this forum, the do-it-yourself forum and even better, an article. I've referred to it more than once and have seen others do so.
> 
> How about it Ian?


If you think it would be of interest.
The next time that I make a grip I will take photos of every step with an explanation. 

Ian

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## Ian Knight

I must add that the three grips which I have made didn't replace the original grips. Two of the sabres had no grips at all, the third had a replacement, ill fitting smooth hardwood grip. 
I would under no circumstances remove and replace the original grip, even if damaged.

Ian

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## J.Fritz

:Smilie: Hi Gentlemen,
This are very interesting Views and Advice Repairing the Handle
Very Appreciatet!
But a big Challenge to do..Perhaps I just use "Rapid Steel Putty"
to form & make a Grip around the Tang.It's not very "Authentic"
but for an "Relic"Sabre ..well ..Many Thanks J.Fritz :Cool:

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