# Communities > Antique Arms & Armour Community > Chinese, South-East Asia (CSEA) >  Sword ID , Shamsir or Mongol Sword

## Jhony Leung

Hi,

Anybody can  help me identify this sword ?

Authenthic or fake one ?

Pls let me know if i need give more information.

Thanks & Rgds
Jhony Leung

http://i291.photobucket.com/albums/l...sir/Banner.jpg
http://i291.photobucket.com/albums/l...r/Overall1.jpg
http://i291.photobucket.com/albums/l...r/Overall2.jpg
http://i291.photobucket.com/albums/l...sir/Blade1.jpg
http://i291.photobucket.com/albums/l...sir/Blade2.jpg
http://i291.photobucket.com/albums/l...msir/Hilt1.jpg
http://i291.photobucket.com/albums/l...msir/Hilt2.jpg
http://i291.photobucket.com/albums/l...msir/Hilt3.jpg
http://i291.photobucket.com/albums/l.../Scabbard1.jpg
http://i291.photobucket.com/albums/l.../Scabbard2.jpg
http://i291.photobucket.com/albums/l.../Scabbard3.jpg
http://i291.photobucket.com/albums/l.../Scabbard4.jpg

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## Seth Borland

I personally dont know its origin, though I DO know that it has one FREAKIN AWESOME design! Is it yours? Where did you find these pics?





> Hi,
> 
> Anybody can  help me identify this sword ?
> 
> Authenthic or fake one ?
> 
> Pls let me know if i need give more information.
> 
> Thanks & Rgds
> ...

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## jonpalombi

> Hi,
> 
> Anybody can  help me identify this sword ?
> 
> Authenthic or fake one ?
> 
> Pls let me know if i need give more information.
> 
> Thanks & Rgds
> Jhony Leung


*Hey Jhony,*
                          I don't believe it is fake, although it is quite unusual.  Usually the fakes are made in easily recognizable forms.  Usually...   :Confused:   It's not a shamshir and I don't have enough experience with Mongolian arms to give you any qualified impressions.  It looks more like a shashka/shashqa to me.  Since many of the best shashkas have Persian blades, it may have some connection to Iranian origins.  Mongolian?  *Josh Stout* should have some valuable information for you.  "Calling Josh Stout."  You might also post these photos in the Antique Arms and Armor Middle-Eastern section to get some expert advice.  Ask *Manouchehr M.* about it's possible Islamic origins.  He's the Man!  I am very interested in their assessment.  A very intriguing piece, though.  I love a good mystery!

*Be well and practice often,  Jon Palombi*

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## Kai W.

Hello Jhony,

Welcome aboard!

That should be a Batak design (from your neck of the disappearing Sumatran woods  :Embarrassment:  ).

I'm highly suspicious of the blade though - seems like a really poor replacement to me (compared to antique Batak blades)...

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## jonpalombi

*Well Jhony,*
                           I did a simple Google search of Batak swords and found a couple links to some very similar swords:  http://sibabiat.multiply.com/photos/...taks_art_sword *&* http://www.geocities.com/keris4u/oth...er_weapons.htm
                           Kai is absolutely correct!  I am frankly surprised that you do not know this, being from Sumatra.  What's that about?   :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic):   Are you testing us, trying to generate interest in selling this sword or is this simply an innocent query???  I mean no direct offense to you Jhony but I am having a hard time wrapping my mind around this anomaly.  Regardless...  *Welcome to Sword Forum International!*  Folks are more than willing to lend a helping hand, in regards to identification and sharing of their knowledge.  

*Be well and practice often,  Jon Palombi*

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## JTCrosby

Could this have been a remounted  captured blade ? The closest indonesian blade I could think of was a peudeung ( sikin) pasangan but the furniture is totatlly wrong for that. There have also been some Surik, from Timor that have a curving blade like this, often foreign made , but again the furniture is wrong. both can be seen  in Von Zonneveld's book and I believe the people on the Front of Draeger' s book  are using a surik

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## Jhony Leung

Hello All,

I know Josh , and i have email Josh about this, i also mention my doubt about the carving, it`s look like malay carving.

I also shown this to Charles Saunders , he also doubt about this and told me this sword might be a fake one or old remade sword.

I hv meet sumatera edge weapon expert in Medan , a museum curator, he told me this is 100% not original batak, although Batak Karo has a close motif with this. 

http://sibabiat.multiply.com/photos/photo/9/4

I have a picture from one of your link, in Medan , North Sumatera, we believe the long sword in middle are not make by bataknese , either batak toba , batak simalungun , batak karo , batak dairi or other bataknese. There are many opinion that this sword were bring to Sumatera by portugal colonist, but still not confirmed ( i have one of them without scabbard )

and on 

http://sibabiat.multiply.com/photos/...ks_art_sword#5

The bottom sword , that`s Aceh peudeung although with batak karo influence. Hilt style and silver decorative on scabbard shown it very well. 
( actually i have some of this swords on my collection  :Big Grin:  )

I obtain this sword on Aceh.

Rgds
Jhony

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## jonpalombi

*Now, now, Jhony....*

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## JTCrosby

Charles would certainy be someone whose opinion I wold listen to on this, here are the curved blade aceh swords I was talking about, To me the telling factor of if it is a fake or a composite piece with the blade remounted in unusual fittings would be how well the blade was made. I cannot tell that from the pictures  



and 



The Timor sword is here ( again similar blade very different fittings )

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## Jhony Leung

Well, Thanks alot all , esp. Jonpalombi and JTCrosby

It`s seem we already have a conclusion for "mix styled" sword  :Wink: 

Frankly, i don`t know about this sword , scabbard made of metal with ring , but have carving like Batak karo style, for me the hilt more likely from malay style and blade like europe blade  :Stick Out Tongue: 

I obtain this quite expensive , What a cost for learning  :Smilie: 

Thanks again Kai for your email  :Wink: 

Rgds
Jhony

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## Graham Cave

The metal scabbard with ring suspension mounts and a fin at the chape is very similar in design to a Japanese shin gunto scabbard. The difference is that this one has bone(?) mounts applied to the throat and the chape.

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