# Communities > Antique Arms & Armour Community > Antique & Military Sword Forum >  Russian dragoon sabre

## CullyPettigrew

Anyone help with dating this weapon? And what does the inscription and coat of arms on the blade mean?
Thanks

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## Dale Martin

"Zlatoust Oruzhenyii Fabrika"  written in old Russian Slavonic Letters...Zlatoust opened in 1803 and is still making edged weapons and knives. Yours is obviously Tsarist era, before 1918. My guess is about 1890.

Dale

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## CullyPettigrew

Thank you for your help.

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## Dale Martin

Cully: Glad to help...They have a web site:  http://zlatoust-knife.com/istorija/

Dale

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## David R

It looks a bit crude to me, and I may be wrong... but I would be somewhat wary of this one. My guess is an original blade remounted later.

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## Dale Martin

No, it is an original and slightly beat up Officers' Shaska.

Dale

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## Juan J. Perez

To be honest, I was also looking for signs of it being a fake. There are loads of them around, some of them crude, others quite elaborated. It is a plague for Russian swords, and this pattern is actively reproduced.

However, I think that wear and tear are real and consistent with age in this one, and the engraving is of better quality than that in repros. I could be wrong, but I bet it is the real thing.

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## CullyPettigrew

Thanks for your help. It is definitely original. The age and condition are commensurate with the date. As you say, the engraving is crisp and clear. There are bumps and scrapes on the hilt and scabbard mounts. The grip looks to be of reasonable quality. The guard appears to have received a battle strike. The blade is well formed, and the rust appears age related.
Any update on its age. Do you agree that it is around 1890?

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## CullyPettigrew

two more images

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## Eric Fairbanks

If I might but in, what is the "M" on the ricasso? Inspector or maker? Eric

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## Dale Martin

Looks like Cyrillic letter Shah..III..

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## Vladimir Sukhomlinov

Hello.
This is a dragoon officer's shashka of 1881.
I would not rush to say that this is the original.
In Russia, there are a lot of private workshops specializing in fakes and hardening of edged weapons of the tsarist period.
I will show the photos exhibited in the subject to specialists in Russia in order to get their opinion on this subject.
Then I will write in the subject of their opinion.
The blade may of course have an original etch, but, as a rule, the officers ordered their weapons privately and could of course order some etch on the blade, but the designation of the Zlatoust factory confuses me with this taoka. If an officer ordered an engraved blade, then as a rule an engraving was dedicated to some significant event - in memory of some kind of battle or as a prize in some kind of competition. And here in the floor blade brand factory .... this is not typical. Then what is the designation on the blade, as I see it in the form of Roman numerals - this is also not typical.
But I will leave a word for experts.

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## Juan J. Perez

It would be fantastic to hear from such experts, used to Russian swords, since this one seems quite convincing. Here in Spain there are a few unscrupulous individuals who are infesting the market with lots of repros of Russian swords and daggers (regulation or not, soviet or imperial), but most of them are easy to spot for any seasoned sword collector. The problem is about the few good ones, of course...

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## Vladimir Sukhomlinov

Hello.
The result of the discussion of this shashka - the photo is not very informative, then come to the opinion that the shashka is original, but in poor condition.

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## Vladimir Sukhomlinov

Now, if it is interesting, I can give a description of the modifications of cavalry sabers of the Russian imperial army, introduced by the weapons reform of 1881.
In 1881, two types of cavalry sabers (shashka) were adopted - the Cossack model and the dragoon model.
The difference is in the handle.
Here is a photo of the handle of the soldier Cossack shashka.
All the lower ranks of the Cossack troops were armed with such sabers (shashka).

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## Vladimir Sukhomlinov

Here is a sample of the officer Cossack saber (shashka) sample 1881.

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## Vladimir Sukhomlinov

Here is a sample of the hilt of an officers Cossack saber of 1881/10.

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## Vladimir Sukhomlinov

I now turn to drafts of dragoons.
Here is the handle of a soldier's dragoon saber of 1881.
such a model armed all the lower ranks of all cavalry regiments, except the Cossack.

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## Vladimir Sukhomlinov

The difference in the saber of the dragoon regiments and all the other cavalry regiments was in the sheath.
On the sheaths of the dragoon sabers there was a cream for carrying the bayonet to the Mosin rifle.
On the sheaths of all the other cavalry regiments there were no devices for carrying the bayonet.
In fact, the dragoons, it was the infantry, mounted on horses, which could fight both in horse and on foot.

Here are the sheaths of a dragoon saber sample, which armed the dragoon regiments.

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## Vladimir Sukhomlinov

Here is a scabbard of a dragoon-style saber, which armed all the rest of the cavalry regiments.

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## Vladimir Sukhomlinov

Now I want to go to the officer's saber of the dragoon type in 1881.
Here is the handle of the saber dragoon sample in 1881.

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## Vladimir Sukhomlinov

Here is the handle of the dragoon saber of 1881/09.
Officers of all types of troops armed themselves with such sabers.

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## Vladimir Sukhomlinov

For simplicity, I refer to all of the above as a saber, although these samples in the Russian army were called as a shashka.
Of course, I gave the description very simplified, so for the general perception of samples. In fact, there are so many nuances that the collector of Russian long-bladed weapons needs to know.

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## Vladimir Sukhomlinov

Now I want to touch on the differences in the length of the blades of these sabers.
I will quote from the book of the Russian gunsmith Fedorov, published in 1909, where he relates to the result of the Russian armory refrme of 1881.

Now I want to touch on the differences in the length of the blades of these sabers.
I will quote from the book of the Russian gunsmith Fedorov, published in 1909, where he relates to the result of the Russian armory refrme of 1881.
In the 222 order of the military department, the length of the dragoon and Cossack shashka is clearly indicated 34 inches - this was the standard. The artillery shashka had a blade 30 inches. Fedorov does not indicate any other sizes. The officer’s shashka could have  long blades for the same Fedorov 28, 29, 30 and 32 inches.
In 1915, the blades of drafts were ordered to produce shorter - 32 inches.

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## Vladimir Sukhomlinov

Now brief information on the stamps that were put on the sabers of the soldiers' blades - on the heel of the blade on one side was put the year of manufacture of the blade and the stamp of the manufacturer. On the other hand, military acceptance stamps were placed — the letter “Ш” under the crown from 1899 to 1903 and the letter “A” under the crown in the period from 1905 to 1917. The tenological stigma of bending loads was also put.

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## Vladimir Sukhomlinov

Here is an example of stamps.
Also on all the brass parts of the handle and the scabbard were stamps of military acceptance in the form of the letters "Ш" or "А" under the crown of the head, as well as on the handle of the handle was stamped with the name of the factory.

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## Vladimir Sukhomlinov

Blades of officer sabers could have various marks. including the German masters, because they could be ordered individually.

Well, in general, here is a brief overview - I dont know if it will be interesting to the forum participants.

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## Vladimir Sukhomlinov

I apologize to the author of the topic that got into the discussion of his subject, but I want to show the dragoon soldier's saber (shashka) from my collection. It is not in very good condition. Made in 1917.
I do not collect the saber of the Russian Empire, because it is very expensive, as the prices of such items are very high. But I bought this sword in memory of my grandfather, a participant in the First World War. He was a non-commissioned officer of the dragoon regiments.
In the photo he in 1916.
Once again I apologize to the author of the topic.

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## Juan J. Perez

Thanks a lot for your messages, Vladimir, they are very informative!

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## Dale Martin

Vladimir: All I say is: Balshoye Spasiba!! Very good information!

Dale

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## David R

Than you Vladimir, an excellent and informative series of posts.

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## Vladimir Sukhomlinov

I also wanted to add briefly about the differences between the saber and the shashka:

Saber is a slashing-cutting bladed edged weapon.

The blade of the saber, as a rule, single-edged (in some cases with a one-and-a-half sharpening), has a characteristic bend in the direction of the butt. The average length of the blade was 80-110 cm. The sabers in various modifications were widespread in Eastern Europe and Asia from the 9th to the 20th centuries as the main cold weapons of cavalry and partly of infantry. In Western Europe, the saber was spread quite late, in the XIV-XIX centuries. Due to a number of its combat qualities and ease of use, the saber partially or completely ousted swords and other types of bladed knives in many European countries.
The belt rings were on the concave side of the scabbard.

Here is a way to wear a sword - you all know it.

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## Vladimir Sukhomlinov

A shashka is a long-slashing slashing-piercing cold weapon.

Single-edged blade, slightly curved, double-edged at the combat end, less than one meter long (in Russia, various models of drafts with a blade length from 81 to 88 cm stood, the original Circassian were even lighter and shorter). Efes usually consists only of a handle with a curved, usually forking head, without a cross (guard), which is a characteristic feature of this type of weapon. The sheath is wooden, covered with leather, with rings for the sword belt on the curved side. There are two types of checkers: checkers with a handle that looks like saber, but they are not (dragoon type), and more common checkers without a handle (Caucasian and Asian types).

Here is a way to wear a shashka with a shoulder belt.

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## Vladimir Sukhomlinov

And the way of wearing saber on the belt.

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## CullyPettigrew

Thank you Vladimir. No apology is needed. Most informative and one of the best replies I have ever received in this forum
Cully

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