# Communities > Modern-era Swords and Collecting Community > Modern Production Katanas >  Best Production Katanas out there?

## Remy B

Out of curiosity, i would like to know what you guys think are the best battle ready _production_ katanas out there, from performance to quality, i am not talking about most bang for the bucks.

I am talking about pure raw final quality, regardless of price, I am talking about superior _production_ katana makers, which one(s) do YOU think make the finest _production_ katanas out there? Which one pay the most attention to details, which one has the strongest blades? etc.

Thanks for looking and for answering.  :Big Grin: 

Remy

----------


## Hong Yeung

Probably MAS (Martialarts swords)

Life time Blade Guarantee on all tameshigiri targets (bamboo, tatami mats, straw)

----------


## Loren Mandarino

Dynasty Forge, Bugei are two great places.

----------


## Ruud B

Citadel, Mas, Dynasty forge, bugei.
very hard to pick one.
Im very happy with the new line from Citadel.

----------


## Jonathan Frances

Hello,

I am very happy with my bugei samurai.  I got mine as a used sword (2+ years with its previous owner), and I am still impressed with it.

One thing you should really consider is what your intended use is going to be.  There are things you get out of a heavy blade (resilience), and things you get out of a lighter blade.  If you are planning on doing a lot of cutting, you are probably better served getting something more robust and growing into it.  If you are going to be doing almost exclusively kata, then something lighter is going to be better.  As long as you are aware of what you are looking for, you should be ok.

Once you get a few ideas from these forums, I'd reccomend you send a few emails out to the makers.  If you think X company makes nice things, tell them what you want a sword for, and see if they can reccomend a specific model.  It isn't always easy to separate fact from marketing, but I am a big fan of at least consulting the primary sources.

----------


## Edward Covolo

I personally own, and have used, a Bugei Samurai katana and wakizashi.

The fittings are good, the blades are well manufactured, and I believe I got full value for my dollar.

(Found here: http://bugei.com/product_599_detailed.htm)

Also, I have had good luck with some of Cheness's  production blades as well-- specifically, the 1060 Mokko and the 9260 Oniyuri.

(Cheness website here: http://www.chenessinc.com/)

--Edward Covolo

----------


## Travis Morris

This is going to be funny,...........

I have a Ryumon folded Dragon Katana ($215 http://www.swordsofmight.com/index.a...ROD&ProdID=130 ). It is amazing. I have had it for over 1yr and I have put it through hell. It still cuts as good as the first day out of the box. Not the prettiest thing, but it gets the job done. Better than my PPK and better than most other blades I have owned $600+

----------


## jonpalombi

I do have Hanwei (Paul Chen), Dynasty Forge, Cold Steel (Huanuo Forge) and Last Legend katanas.  I highly recomend these productuon katanas for both cutting and display.  I almost bought a Bugei Wave (Paul Chen as well) but got scared off by the price.  Maybe next year... :Big Grin: 

Ciao,  Jon Palombi

----------


## MRusso

For performance it could be MAS, as mentioned above, for the life time guarantee.
As for beauty, I'm yet to see production blade to rival the Dynasty Forge Tamahagane line.. I know Paul Chen do have one now, but I haven't seen any close up photo yet  :Gag:

----------


## mscrampton

But I can at least remind everyone, as stated on my website, that Citadel also offers a full lifetime warranty on the blades.  Nuff said.

Mike

----------


## Spencer Schehr

I have to agree with Mike. Hands down Citadel makes some of the finest production katana out there. Id have to say they have much more "custom" quality than production though. The blade, wood work, etc is all very well done. I've had mine for quite some time now and my "only" gripe has been that the ito has come a little loose, nothing some super glue didn't fix though. The polish is much better too, very natural and "unfooled" around with compared to most other production blades. Back when I did iaito I even did a bit of cutting with it, and despite me being a complete beginner, the blade came out unscathed from each cut.

Just my $.02

----------


## Jerry G.

Straight "out-of-the-box" quality?  Bugei and Citadel hands down.  Which you'd pick depends upon personal or practicing preferences.  I have several of each and they are all just beautiful.  The saya of the Citadels are much nicer but the blades aren't folded like Bugei's.

If you are willing to correct some out-of-the-box shortcomings, the MAS L6 and DF Daimyo are very nice also but just not AS nice.  The MAS have excellent saya much like the Citadels but their fittings, IMHO, blow chunks.

FWIW, I am a collecter rather than a practitioner and my opinion is just that...my opinion.

----------


## MRusso

This katana here:

http://www.shadowofleaves.com/katana_9.htm

seems to have a very rough polish compared to some stone DF Daimyo... or the DF blades does have a better photograph/light condition during the shots? I've seen some photos from the DF website and from the Aaron Justice customization and, from the photos I'd choose DF without blinking.

----------


## Andrew Thornton

Looks like a hybrid polish, though i could be wrong.

----------


## michael wilson

is that a typo ? 1 9/16" motohaba ?  

Thats a whopping big 40mm at the habaki if it is accurate .

actually my panic buy button is at defcon 2 right now due to the impending ban in April and the citadel range is one on my radar .

This will be the last none nihonto sword I buy , I had planned my next purchase to be a gendaito or gunto but the news of the April deadline has changed that  - so I will need to shop very carefully .

I'll have $1000 > $1200 USD by the end of january and whatever I buy will need to be available within 4 - 6 weeks  - I dare not go too far into March for fear of the getting my coat pulled by the police  :Wink: 

Mick

----------


## Andrew Thornton

I have several swords from bugei and i luvs them. What do you think peeps....practicing niten-ichi ryu with the bugei shobu zukuri katana AND the shobu zukuri wakizashi....is that muscle and ligament damage i hear knocking at my door? :Big Grin:

----------


## Jerry G.

> This katana here:
> 
> http://www.shadowofleaves.com/katana_9.htm
> 
> seems to have a very rough polish compared to some stone DF Daimyo... or the DF blades does have a better photograph/light condition during the shots? I've seen some photos from the DF website and from the Aaron Justice customization and, from the photos I'd choose DF without blinking.



Don't get me wrong...I've tried on several occasions to pick up specific DF 1095 Daimyo(ones with SOMEWHAT irregular hamon) but have yet to succeed.  As far as the pics of that Citadel, I see what you mean but frankly think they look better in person.  Here are three pics of one of mine.

----------


## mscrampton

For those not in the know....Citadels are all hand polished (not treated or hybrid).  If I offer anything that has been given a hybrid polish it is so noted.  Even those that I currently have offered in my customs section are NOT hybrid polish blades but fully hand polished (no acid or etchant involved).  If ANY blade I offer has had acid or etchant used it is so stated.  This means that everything is as the distributors offer including Dynasty Forge and CasIberia.  Citadel is the ONLY forge that I know of in my dealings that uses neither acid or etchant.  

Regards,

Mike

----------


## mscrampton

Obviously a 1  9/16" motohaba is a typo and has been corrected.  And sorry but I'm not a professional photographer.  If I had to hire a proffesional to do the photos I would have to tack that on to the costs of selling.  I try to keep things low cost by doing it all myself.

Best as Always,

Mike

----------


## MRusso

I don't know if that was a bad angle or something, but regardless of lighting source I would not expect to see that polish marks in a >1000 USD sword.. In the kissaki shot I almost can't see the hamon. 
It would be great if some polisher could post  in and bring some light on this  :Smilie:

----------


## Timo Qvintus

Define "production katana".. Dynasty, Paul Chen/Bugei, Cheness etc. have certain product-lines. Citadel for example doesn't. Are those still "production swords"?

----------


## michael wilson

Timo 

I think citadel fall into the same gray area as semi custom suggests 
not strictly production runs but not entirely custom either 


I have my eye on one before the April axe falls but I am unsure about the blade length and the weight of the solid blade  models 
and as this is my last throw of the dice so to speak I have to aim real carefully  :Wink: 

The sori and geometry is the best ive seen in a none custom blade 
and ive yet to read a single bad opinion of them .


Mick

----------


## J.Walton

I had a chance to check out the Citadels from Mike this past summer at the Sword Fest in NOVA. I was in the market for a sword and I was really impressed with the clean lines and nice fit and finish. I ended up going with a Bugei Samurai, and while it is a nice katana I think now if I could redo it, I would go with the Citadel without a second thought. Honestly I went with the Bugei simply off of their company's history and rep with other users.

While other vendors go after the latest "craze metal" or blade style, Citadel is quietly putting out quality katanas that others aren't even coming close to being on the same level with.

If your not really interested in a folded blade (the mono steel blades of Citadel are prob. even better than most folded steel), I would have to say the Citadel offers the best balance and over all feel of a higher priced katana. And here is how I compared them to the other katanas,..simply by walking over to the next vendor table and picking up a real nihonto or US Smith custom katana. The Citadel were obviously not "as nice", but for the price I honestly think you would be very hard pressed to find a nicer "custom" configuration of koshirae, fit and finish on a "production" katana. I'm not even sure I would say these are production katanas either. There not exactly pumping out thousands of these blades and offering them just anywhere..i.e ebay, every online vendor,etc.

If you get a opportunity to get with Mike and handle one of the Citadels do it! The pictures online just don't do it justice. Even if the pictures were better, it just wouldn't capture the over all craftsmenship...yes craftsmenship that goes into the swords. 

As for the hamon, like Mike stated earlier they are def. not etched or acid. they are nicely done and subtle. I had the rare chance to look at custom katanas and then walk 25 ft and look at the Citadels and compare. Now, of course they aren't on the same level per sae, but they are SO much closer to authentic nihonto like hamon in their appearance than the frosty hamon on Bugei-DF-and most other prod. katanas. I hate the hamon on my Bugei. It looks like some type of eye candy frost instead of a hamon that just is simple, subtle and attractive. Of course your mileage will vary on this depending on your preferences of hamons.

Next yr might be the year I get a Citadel. Oh and for the record, you will not find nicer tantos, and kaiken. Simply put, these little pieces kick some serious arse. My wife was wanting one of each.  :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic):  trying to spend my katana money. :Big Grin: 

J.Walton

----------


## Remy B

i think that when it comes to Katana, defining production is fairly easy, anything that isnt entirely made using traditional methods and material would fall in that category.

----------


## Jerry G.

> Oh and for the record, you will not find nicer tantos, and kaiken. Simply put, these little pieces kick some serious arse.


I like Hanwei tantos very much and they are certainly very sleek and beautiful, but the Citadels are _weapons_.  They are just sooo solidly built and feel like you could put them through an oak door...not that you'd ever want to attempt anything so foolish.  Here are some pics of mine.

----------


## Joe DAgostino

> I like Hanwei tantos very much and they are certainly very sleek and beautiful, but the Citadels are _weapons_.  They are just sooo solidly built and feel like you could put them through an oak door...not that you'd ever want to attempt anything so foolish.  Here are some pics of mine.


Hey Jerry G  not to take this thread in a different direction but I was thinking of picking one of those Tantos up.  The polish looks pretty decent do you have anymore close ups.

----------


## michael wilson

definitely feeling the pull towards these blades now after seeing jerry's gorgeous tanto's  - 


For the UK price of a PC Bushido or classic tiger I can have a citadel from Mike Crampton , I was hoping to buy a folded kat but 
after reading a lot of old threads on production sword polishing and finishes I am a bit turned off by the heavily acid washed look of the hanwei stuff . 

even just reading books and looking at pics gives you the idea of how far removed the frosty white brush stroke hamons are from the real thing .

----------


## michael wilson

this is a folded katana that boasts a tamahagane steel blade  - 

if you believe that you will also believe that I have a full head of glorious hair just like fabian :Wink: 

http://www.masterofswords.eu/N_frame...erofswords.eu/

that aside it does look a decent sword for the bucks - 700 euro 
is roughly £500 GB or $1000 USD - the pics are not v.good but there is a vid on youtube called simply  - shinogi zukuri , of someone going over this sword with a close up camera .

if I can find out what the hada is like and if its subtle enough it'll be a toss up between this and citadel 


# IU apologise if this looks like hijacking but as we are still discussing high end production swords its still on topic with the 
original question# 


thanks

Mick

----------


## Remy B

I checked yesterday and i couldnt find the official Citadel website, anyone can hook me up so with the link? thanks

----------


## Timo Qvintus

> I checked yesterday and i couldnt find the official Citadel website, anyone can hook me up so with the link? thanks


I don't think they have an official website..?

----------


## Timo Qvintus

> this is a folded katana that boasts a tamahagane steel blade  - 
> 
> if you believe that you will also believe that I have a full head of glorious hair just like fabian
> 
> http://www.masterofswords.eu/N_frame...erofswords.eu/
> 
> that aside it does look a decent sword for the bucks - 700 euro 
> is roughly £500 GB or $1000 USD - the pics are not v.good but there is a vid on youtube called simply  - shinogi zukuri , of someone going over this sword with a close up camera .
> 
> if I can find out what the hada is like and if its subtle enough it'll be a toss up between this and citadel


You mean this one:
http://www.masterofswords.eu/Shinogi...E_art_862.html

I'm gonna say with 95% certainty that these are made in Longquan, I might even know the production-company.. or at least I know the source of the koshirae.

BTW, check out the other stuff I found on that website:
http://forums.swordforum.com/showthread.php?p=979156

----------


## J. Zhang

> I checked yesterday and i couldnt find the official Citadel website, anyone can hook me up so with the link? thanks


They're a Cambodian company which is why it's so hard to find their official site. http://www.citadel.com.kh/

----------


## MRusso

Cambodian company? That's different  :Big Grin:

----------


## Ruud B

> Cambodian company? That's different


I was set up by a French Man in Cambodia..
Hope to see the plant this year.. I heard to allowed tours on appointment.

----------


## Timo Qvintus

> They're a Cambodian company which is why it's so hard to find their official site. http://www.citadel.com.kh/


Cheers mate, I didn't know the website existed! They don't seem to sell any swords themselves, though, but there's a list of who does on the website.

----------


## J. Freeman

I'm very happy with the hamon on my Dynasty Forge Daimyo - in 1095 rather than tamahagane, sadly - the hamon changes from midare to gunome to notare going along the blade, with a fuji-san peak in the gunome. I like the variation, it's a sword with mixed emotions - like its owner...

I haven't cut with it yet, and may not for fear of tarnishing the polish, but it's been fine for iai.

I would recommend DF blades of THIS line for display, the polish and geometry is outstanding for the price range. I can't speak for their other pieces however, as I haven't seen any.

----------


## Remy B

Hmmm i always wonder'd why almost all production kat have no turnback boshi... it isnt like it would take longer to make...

----------


## Benjamin P.

> Hmmm i always wonder'd why almost all production kat have no turnback boshi... it isnt like it would take longer to make...


Almost all Hanwei swords have turnback at boshi.

----------


## mscrampton

Just to keep things on an even keel.  ALL Citadel have full turnback.

Best Regards,

Mike

----------


## Remy B

I dont mean to argue, but it doesnt look like it does.
http://www.shadowofleaves.com/katana11.htm
http://www.shadowofleaves.com/katana_2.htm

----------


## J. Freeman

Although I hear nothing but praise for Citadel, I've never liked their boshi and some of their hi terminations make them look like poor quality gunto...

As an aside note, I have a Nihonto Shinto-era Wakizashi... that doesn't have a turn back at boshi...

----------


## Enrique Ruano

tengu, is nearly a ninhoto


http://www.houseoftengu.com/

http://www.thetimeseller.com/spa/sub...000/SF041.html

----------


## Timo Qvintus

> tengu, is nearly a ninhoto
> 
> 
> http://www.houseoftengu.com/
> 
> http://www.thetimeseller.com/spa/sub...000/SF041.html


Never heard of Tengu before, but this hardly resembles Nihonto, and based on the aesthetics not even close to what we're discussing here.. Does this look like something that's worth $2000 USD?

----------


## Remy B

Possibly the ugliest tsuka shape i ever seen... very little details otherwise and no mention of company location so i can safely assume that it isnt from japan! lol

----------


## Benjamin P.

Just because they have mass produced fittings from Japan doesn't make these "tengu" any closer to a nihonto.   :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic):

----------


## Remy B

It does, Benjamin... these blades are physicaly closer to the nihonto ... if the shop is close to a nihonto exposition! :O ehehhe

----------


## Enrique Ruano

Sorry if you do not like them, but all tengu katana are based on pieces historical and made with Japanese pieces, the koshirae is great, very pretty and not bored as those of the marks that you said (Cold Steel, Hanwei, wkc, imperial forge, Huanuo-Fred Chen, Thait Suki Nihonto ....etc) i have some of them but are always the same black saya and sageo are very bad always, so terrible.

katana´s tengu are elaborated one to one, and hand to hand, they are not made industrially.

in my opinion are the most beautiful modoki and best modoki that we can buy out of japon, and I have many of the others marks taht you say (hanwei, wkc, imperial ) but koshirae is very very bored and bad

----------


## J. Freeman

Good koshirae hardly justify that big a price jump unless there's a blade to back it up.

I think you'll find many actually like that 'same black saya and sageo' as elegant and fitting in with the traditional Japanese warrior aesthetic ideal of the understated and practical.

And those who want a nice sageo can buy one for their sword themselves, of better quality for better value that on this tengu site!

----------


## Timo Qvintus

> Sorry if you do not like them, but all tengu katana are based on pieces historical and made with Japanese pieces, the koshirae is great, very pretty and not bored as those of the marks that you said (Cold Steel, Hanwei, wkc, imperial forge, Huanuo-Fred Chen, Thait Suki Nihonto ....etc) i have some of them but are always the same black saya and sageo are very bad always, so terrible.
> 
> katana´s tengu are elaborated one to one, and hand to hand, they are not made industrially.
> 
> in my opinion are the most beautiful modoki and best modoki that we can buy out of japon, and I have many of the others marks taht you say (hanwei, wkc, imperial ) but koshirae is very very bored and bad


What's "modoki"?

Koshirae is more than just the metal fittings; the tsuka of those swords are mostly horribly shaped, and tsukamaki is very sloppy (something you'd expect in $100 range, not $2000 range). The kodogu are nothing to shout about either, most of them are mass-produced (albeit well made) and can be bought off of Namikawa or similar vendor.

"Hand-made" doesn't mean anything; "well-made" does. That's the difference here.  :Wink:

----------


## Enrique Ruano

it is just an opinion, your opinion, my opinion its only that, i only wanted show other modokis to you

that is a forum: opinions

----------


## Timo Qvintus

OK, but what is/are "modoki"?

----------


## Benjamin P.

> Sorry if you do not like them, but all tengu katana are based on pieces historical and made with Japanese pieces, the koshirae is great, very pretty and not bored as those of the marks that you said (Cold Steel, Hanwei, wkc, imperial forge, Huanuo-Fred Chen, Thait Suki Nihonto ....etc) i have some of them but are always the same black saya and sageo are very bad always, so terrible.
> 
> katana´s tengu are elaborated one to one, and hand to hand, they are not made industrially.
> 
> in my opinion are the most beautiful modoki and best modoki that we can buy out of japon, and I have many of the others marks taht you say (hanwei, wkc, imperial ) but koshirae is very very bored and bad


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mokona_Modoki  :Confused: 

Like Timo said... there's a huge difference between "hand-made" and "well-made."  

An ugly woman wearing sexy lingerie and expensive clothes and jewelery is still an ugly woman.  I'm not saying Tengu swords are like ugly women... but if they were as pretty and great as you say, we should see some close-ups of the blade itself.  But even a complete beginner like me can already see... from these "distant" and "vague" pictures... that the "lines" of Tengu swords are strange and very awkward.  And Remy is right... the tsuka shapes are ugly.  The tsukamaki is really poorly done too.

Not only that... the fittings are mass-produced ones that a lot of Japanese iaito makers use...  and like Timo said, some are available for cheap from places like Namikawa and others directly from the makers, http://www.jidai.jp/tsuba_kanagu.asp 

I've never heard of WKC or Imperial... but I have to totally disagree that Hanwei koshirae are boring.  I think many other people would disagree too.  

Has anyone else ever heard of Tengu besides Enrique?

A friend of mine told me that SwordStore dot com does much the same thing in terms of fittings...  and many/most of their fittings can also be found on other Japanese iaito too.  But what makes SwordStore respected is not just the fittings but the impeccable fit and finish of their products.  In my opinion, overall quality of the product matters a whole lot more than where the individual fittings are made... being made in Japan doesn't give it magical powers or automatically mean it's great....  and I think it's sad how that seems to be the big selling point/catch-phrase ("made in Japan!!!") Tengu is pushing.  Just my 0.02 cents...

----------


## J. Freeman

> it is just an opinion, your opinion, my opinion its only that, i only wanted show other modokis to you
> 
> that is a forum: opinions


Yes but not all opinions are necessarily equal. The aesthetics of these swords may be a matter of taste, but the quality of the workmanship is perfectly objective enough for debate.

If I say the moon is made of rock because the astronauts and scientists have determined this through taking samples, and you can't really come along and say "Well you haven't been there, have you? So my opinion that it's made of Venezualan Beaver cheese is equally valid."  :Confused: 




> An ugly woman wearing sexy lingerie and expensive clothes and jewelery is still an ugly woman.  I'm not saying Tengu swords are like ugly women... but if they were as pretty and great as you say, we should see some close-ups of the blade itself.


I don't mean to nit pick - I agree with what your point 100% - but although this is a heavily male forum perhaps a more universal analogy might be appropriate...  :Wink: 

Like that old English proverb: You can't polish a turd.  :Big Grin:

----------


## Jason M D.

> Yes but not all opinions are necessarily equal. The aesthetics of these swords may be a matter of taste, but the quality of the workmanship is perfectly objective enough for debate.
> 
> If I say the moon is made of rock because the astronauts and scientists have determined this through taking samples, and you can't really come along and say "Well you haven't been there, have you? So my opinion that it's made of Venezualan Beaver cheese is equally valid." 
> 
> 
> 
> I don't mean to nit pick - I agree with what your point 100% - but although this is a heavily male forum perhaps a more universal analogy might be appropriate... 
> 
> Like that old English proverb: You can't polish a turd.



Actually, you can. :Stick Out Tongue: 

http://www.indiana9fossils.com/Copro...e_Dinosaur.htm

But I still wouldn't buy that sword.

 :Big Grin:

----------


## Michael P

> Actually, you can.
> 
> http://www.indiana9fossils.com/Copro...e_Dinosaur.htm
> 
> But I still wouldn't buy that sword.


Damn you Jason, now I am tempted to get one to counter the old argument  :Wink: 

"Here, see... you can, you just need to be very patient"  :Big Grin:

----------


## J. Freeman

> Actually, you can.
> 
> http://www.indiana9fossils.com/Copro...e_Dinosaur.htm
> 
> But I still wouldn't buy that sword.


HAHA  :Big Grin: 

Nice one.

Strange that they're all from Utah, is this true for all the world's deposits of dinosaur dung? One wonders what that says about what these prehistoric beasts thought of the place... :Big Grin:

----------


## Jason M D.

> HAHA 
> 
> Nice one.
> 
> Strange that they're all from Utah, is this true for all the world's deposits of dinosaur dung? One wonders what that says about what these prehistoric beasts thought of the place...


Well, from what I hear there's a lot in China too  :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic):

----------


## Remy B

lol, you guys are goofs.

----------


## michael wilson

Its a dying art  - no interest in it these days , 

and the moneys _crap_  anyway   :Big Grin: 

Mick

----------


## Timo Qvintus

*AHEM*

now that was a good laugh and all but let's get back on track shall we? Benjamin mentioned WKC..

Enrique, look at the $2000 Tengu sword I linked above, then look at this $2000 WKC katana:
http://www.wkc-sports.com/Blackheartofdragond.html

do you honestly think that the Tengu is superior? if so, in what way? and I still want to know what "modoki" is.

EDIT: was that a hybrid polished turd or were fingerstones used?  :Gag:

----------


## Remy B

Bahahah!!! these turds are polished with buffing diamond disk!  :Stick Out Tongue:  
stones have no risk of losing their temper so machine tools are perfectly fine  :Smilie:

----------


## Timo Qvintus

> Bahahah!!! these turds are polished with buffing diamond disk!  
> stones have no risk of losing their temper so machine tools are perfectly fine


Really? I think I see traces of "activity" in those pics..  :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic):

----------


## Remy B

"digestion activity" mayhaps!

so anyways we still have no clue what modoki means, my guess would be that it means "toy swords" :P

----------


## Timo Qvintus

> so anyways we still have no clue what modoki means, my guess would be that it means "toy swords" :P


I wouldn't go that far, the blades could be just fine (no pics of the blade so we don't know).. let's keep in mind that this is an open forum, we don't want accusations of slander.

One thing we *CAN* agree upon, though, is that these are not "Best Production Katanas out there" and leave it at that.

----------


## michael wilson

Its sweetcorn  :Big Grin: 

enough , enough  

I actually liked the look of one or two of the blades  - everything else looked pretty bad but I would give one of the blades an outing  - this one  http://www.houseoftengu.com/kanshaku.htm 

but then i read this , its a nice way of saying its through tempered/hardened without admitting it :

_The differential tempering is natural, without makeup_

In plain speak they mean the thinner edge cools faster than the thicker spine  - talk about stretching a point  - sheesh??

strange to say the least 


Mick

----------


## mscrampton

Hi Guys,

I have been following this thread for awhile now and decided I just couldn't take it anymore.  Timo, I'm with you!!!  What the Heck!! is being referenced as Midoki???  And how does it apply to swords in general??  Mr. Ruano seems to have carefully evaded any answering to enlighten us.  Other than a reference to some cartoon creature or use of a katana in a non-lethal strike I can find nothing.  Now for my two cents worth.  Over the past eight years since starting SOL I have sold a great many lines of production blades to include Thatsukai, Furuyama, Last Legend, Paul Chen (both past and current), MAS, Dynasty Forge, and Citadel.  Some lines I haven't even bothered with to include dealing directly with Huano Forge which produces a number of the "Lines" mentioned.  Other than those that I currently offer I have ignored or dropped them as offered lines for what I feel are good reason.  Even those that I currently offer are not perfect but then again they aren't being sold for 6000.00 or more.  Sometimes a small correction may be required and if I can't correct the problem then it goes back to the distributor (which is almost never).  But for those that have come to know me know that only the best possible go out the door.  I don't even bother looking for other lines anymore as I have settled on the fact  that the three lines, and what I offer as customized of those lines, fill the requirements and needs of the majority IMHO.  Anyway if anyone needs or wants any further clarification please don't hesitate.

Best as Always,

The Big Mouth

----------


## Timo Qvintus

.."Modoki" is a word for shinken made outside Japan (I presume that's pretty close to "mogito") that some Spanish people appear to use..

----------


## mscrampton

Guess you can still teach an old dog new tricks!!

Saru mo ki kara ochiru - even monkeys fall from trees!!

----------


## Tsugio Kawakami

So that's what modoki is...

Also, I have to say that these Tengu blades are anything but impressive.

http://www.houseoftengu.com/kanshaku.htm
http://www.houseoftengu.com/ryoshi.htm

...some of the ugliest itomaki jobs I've seen. I hate to be harsh, but it's true. Look at the hada, too! Do an ebay search on "damascus katana" or "samurai katana sword can chop iron" and there you go.

edit: Also, I just read this - "The elegant contrast of colors between the ito and the saya, as well as the exquisiteness of the parts, make this a katana unlike any other on the market, as the tsuba, lightly carved in rikko style, is covered in first quality yellow/golden Japanese cotton, etc." I can't help but think that the errors in vocabulary (tsuba = tsuka, I imagine) are a sign of lack of study...something a specialty sword sales company can't really afford to do.

In my opinion, taking both qc and customer service into consideration, citadel is pretty high. There are a few other makers who would rank up there, too, if they would get the customer relations straightened out, but citadel seems to be a safe choice.

----------


## Glen C.

Someone has thrown a flag on this play. I'm not sure what the real issue is, aside from you guys being you guys. Rather than put you all on report, I figure I'll leave this here.



As typical. Rude, crude and at times socially unacceptable. Seems like business as usual to me.

I say the best production katana is my fourth generation Hanwei PK. 

What does best mean to you?

That pompous jerk

Glen

----------


## michael wilson

LOL

way to go Glen , actually my KC shingen is the best and we all knows it  :Big Grin: 

Ok folks potty mouth times over  - back to swords pro's v cons .

never mind the best production blade  - how about the easiest to dicipher abbreviation :

Theres plenty of decent user kats out there , so many abbreviated names it looks like a world boxing sanctioning body expo  :Big Grin: 

PC, KC , DF, CS  etc , then we have PK ,PPK, P pro K , PK XL, PPK XL 
KC 26II , KC 29II , KC 25A , KC 27A - not to mention all the 10XX steels plus 5160, 9260 , L6   etc , 

did some one say da vinci code ?  :Wink: 

Mick

----------


## Kent Enfield

> .."Modoki" is a word for shinken made outside Japan (I presume that's pretty close to "mogito") that some Spanish people appear to use..


As far as I know, "modoki" is related mogito in that that it's the same kanji as the "gi" part of mogito.  It means something like "imitation".  Unfortunately, that's not how "modoki" by itself gets used.  Modoki is a suffix and doesn't stand alone.  It's equivalent to the prefix "pseudo-"  Ironically (or perhaps not), when the kanji is used as a stand alone word, it's usually read as "maga(i)", where the meaning changes nuance to "sham" or "fake".

I'd avoid adopting this term into your personal lexicon.

----------


## Timo Qvintus

> I'd avoid adopting this term into your personal lexicon.


I will, thanks for the heads-up!  :Smilie:

----------


## Rufino Acosta

Dear Sirs, good day.

First of all, I'm sorry for my English, since I am not a native speaker (or writer!)  :Wink: 

I'm Rufino Acosta as you can see in my registered name, and I own The Time Seller,Tengu, and some other brands WMA and re-enactment related. We're from Spain, replying to who may wonder. 

It is a little hard for us to read comments like those from people I admire but enough with the feelings now.

Tengu is a custom based company, we do not wanted to develop catalogue models until our customers started to request model from a catalogue. The pieces you can see in houseoftengu.com are from 3 years on the past, the fittings we use at this moment are not exactly the same and the blades are radically different, specially the folded ones. At the moment we hold the custom market in spain and part of europe, and we're very proud about, and especially about the customers feedback in general. Since we offer the possibility to a customer to make his dreamed katana deciding most of the details. We put a katana in the hand of many Iaido, Kenjutsu, and kendo instructors in our country. 

About the Ryöshi model it's a this moment a discontinued item, we do not serve it anymore, that was one of our first models. We're developing 5 new models based on museum pieces and with a very Japanese flavor. I attach our last creation, which is at this moment a top selling item. 

Yes, we use imported japanese pieces, and mass produced fittings, but we do not lie about, we can openly say we have a very good relationship with the namikawa family, and they are very happy to work with us. Does that means we're making something terrible? I think not. The main difference between our Tengu and another katana is the fittings and the koshirae. We per example can assure our blades doesn't have nothing to envy to a PC or a WKC and on the contrary, we can tell our koshirae has a significant difference between those brands, and I'm not talking about the taste of the colours, because that's a matter of taste, I'm talking about the finishes. We import the wood from japan, the ito, fuchigashira, menuki and even the same, even when we could take if from mexico instead, but not, we don't want to. We could pay chinese workers to make his 'fabulous' koshirae for a cheap katana with authentic chinese cotton ito, but we don't wanted to. We import the fittings, I pickup the pieces and go with them to the Kokshirae-shi's house which is less than a mile from here, and he makes his work in his workshop. That's how this works. 

I would like to ask you if you ever seen a Tengu katana to talk about his quality, finishes and/or koshirae. We'll update the houseoftengu webpage with our new pictures, and maybe you'll notice a difference. 

Mr. Ruano it's a good friend from Toledo, and is one of the good and best customers from Tengu.

About the modoki, it's a word used here (in spain at least), to designate non-japanese katanas in just a word. 

If you have any other question, just let me know, but I'll need a few time to reply since we cannot see the forums everyday due to our shop.

Thanks, and have a nice day.

----------


## Rufino Acosta

Oops... I forgot one attachment  :Stick Out Tongue:

----------


## Timo Qvintus

Hello Rufino,

I have discussed Tengu further with Enrique, and he's pointed out many of the facts you mentioned, along with the outdated website. I searched your TimeSeller forum a bit but as my Spanish isn't very good I could only understand so much.

The major things that caused this "commotion" about your swords were your choice of words, which in turn could be translation-problems since you are not native in English. For example the phrase "our koshirae is handmade, so every katana is unique" would imply that kodogu is also handmade and unique which isn't the case. Another phrase is "a final product very near to a authentic nihonto" which would imply not just use of Japanese kodogu but the use of tamahagane to make the blades and employing the services of expert swordsmiths and polishers (which you may or may not be what you're doing, there's no mention of it in either direction on your website). The sword community is very touchy because of all the bad quality Chinese swords on the market, and as such overreacted to the said claims you made of your products. Even you must admit that the tsuka and tsukamaki of that Ryöshi is horrible. Your website does more harm than good to your reputation as is, and I would like to see it updated soon, having seen Enrique's examples of your work which was in places very impressive.

Speaking of Enrique, here are pictures of his Tengu-sword (which I take is a relatively new model?). Head and shoulders above what you have on Tengu's website..

----------


## Ruud B

> Oops... I forgot one attachment


Please Sir update your website, the current one does not do you or Tengu any justice.

----------


## Mat Rous

> Oops... I forgot one attachment


Hi Rufino, can you confirm that that is a Shinken or a Iaito? I'm hoping it's a Shinken. If so it looks like the first Shinken I've seen that looks like a quality iaito. The biggest issue I have is getting a Shinken to match the balance of my iaito. 

This could be very interesting news.  :Wink:

----------


## Timo Qvintus

> Hi Rufino, can you confirm that that is a Shinken or a Iaito? I'm hoping it's a Shinken. If so it looks like the first Shinken I've seen that looks like a quality iaito. The biggest issue I have is getting a Shinken to match the balance of my iaito. 
> 
> This could be very interesting news.


http://www.thetimeseller.com/eng/item/TNKS_Stock.html

----------


## Rufino Acosta

Hi Mat.

About the picture we attached, well, let's try first to clarify terms, as per us Shinken means a True Japanese Sword (including and specially blade!). If you refer if it is a cutting, sharp, steel katana, yes, it is. 

Only it's fitting pieces and parts are japanese, while, and that includes the question *Timo* formulated, it's blade is forged in china, as many commercial katana brands such as WKC or PC. 

We understand the sensation of the katana comuny worldwide, since we also suffered that on other times. The Time Seller started as a re-seller as many of you say, but at this moment we have our own production on many items, including our Tengu, to try, among other things, to offer a good quality modoki katana, or what you prefer. 

I apologize for our bad mantained webpage of houseoftengu.com but for the moment we have so much work so little time, and we are working on a FULL redesign of the website and even the products, incuding in the future a list of worldwide distributors. 

About words used in the webpage and products, It is what *Timo* told, we know how to explain everything we want in our language, but even using a proffesional translator, we cannot find one specialized in japanese terminology and weapons! Not even a japanese one who knows about swords, here it's not easy.That's why I think we should revise everything and try to make a 'neutral' product description.  

Per example we have a common collaborator in the team which is japanese, (very useful for us!) but, he doesn't know about katana, like all the spaniards don't know about bullfighting.  :Wink:  In fact he is learning thanks to his collaborations with us.  

The katana we made to Enrique took a lot of time, and sweat I can assure. And for the moment is a unique piece, even on blade. 

Custom katana is what we normally work, and it is our strong and  biggest sales for the moment, as I told before there was much instructor who gave us the honor to put their well dreamed katanas in their hands.

I apologize again, and thank you all for your understanding. We're working as hard as we can to solve this.  :Big Grin:

----------


## Timo Qvintus

I can't think of a single name right now but I believe we have Spanish members on SFI, I hope some of them could help with translations? I'd be happy to help but my Spanish is very poor and I don't trust translation-software when it comes to writing text for a company's website.

Is there an English version of the TimeSellers' forum available? I'm sure many (non-Spanish speaking) European members of SFI would find it very interesting.

I saw mention on TimeSellers forum that you have some quite unique and different hamon on your blades. Enrique also talked about this. Could you post some pictures?

----------


## Remy B

Mr. Acosta, i would tend to agree with the others in saying that you need to update your website asap! the pics there does not do your swords any justice...

On Erique' blade... that is the first time i see a chinese made blade that has an actual hada! i am a bit suspicious... :P

----------


## Timo Qvintus

> I saw mention on TimeSellers forum that you have some quite unique and different hamon on your blades. Enrique also talked about this. Could you post some pictures?


I seem to have found them myself.. Are these your prototypes/test blades or just models according to which you're planning to make your blades?

----------


## Tsugio Kawakami

I deffinately agree with the previous statements about updating the website, and I appologize for the harshness of my previous statements. I have to be honest, though...just going off of the old pics on the website, I wasn't impressed. These new ones, however, are a completely different story. I'm actually very interested in them now. Enrique's blade is something else.

I wonder if Tengu tachi are something worth asking about... I needs me a tachi.

----------


## Remy B

Woha, nice hamon BUT theres a big BIG issue with the blade, the hamon really looks like it runs off the cutting edge on the kissaki, thats a big "NoGo" to me!!! is it the case????

It looks like it runs off on both kissaki but the lowe one is more easy to notice...

----------


## Tsugio Kawakami

Top one looks fine to me. Check the spot just above the glare and you can still se the hamon, but the lower one may run off.

----------


## michael wilson

So are all the lines in the house of tengu site now obsolete - if you remember , as well as scorn I did voice some interest in one of the blades .

Please update your site -  we only spoke as we found and cannot be judged harsh because of that.


providing these swords live up to the good word your giving them I for one will welcome another european katana onto the scene as we are starved of a decent choice over here .

Mick

----------


## Mat Rous

I'm not really bothered by hada or how pretty the blade is. The last photos posted show that the furniture is of Iaito levels. If they handle well it would force Chen to up the ante and fix their tsukas.

----------


## Loren Mandarino

I've never seen a chinese made production sword with Hamon like that, generally they are all even and uniform. i am very hopful that these blades turn out to be good quality, this could have a huge and beneficial impact on the production industry. I love the directon these are going.

----------


## michael wilson

Heres a slideshow of a konron forge katana  - retails at about the 350 euro to $450 price range 

slideshow  - 

http://www.samurai-sword-shop.com/sl...slideshow.html



heres the range  - 

http://www.samurai-sword-shop.com/fo...ken-64-ctg.htm

The hamon looks pretty wild on these like on a folded furuyama I once owned a few years back.

ah well more choice for the discerning beater buyer  :Big Grin:

----------


## Michael P

> Heres a slideshow of a konron forge katana  - retails at about the 350 euro to $450 price range 
> 
> slideshow  - 
> 
> http://www.samurai-sword-shop.com/sl...slideshow.html


Oooh, and that's local enough to save a bunch on shipping and import fees...

----------


## Timo Qvintus

I love this bit in the product description:



> We even tested the ability of this sword by chopping wood ! Keep in mind that this is just an extreme way to test swords and theyre not made to chop wood ! If you like to chop wood, buy an axe


 :Big Grin:

----------


## michael wilson

> Oooh, and that's local enough to save a bunch on shipping and import fees...



You said it Michael , £52 GB is what I was robbed of by her majesty's customs bandits the last time I imported a sword back in December , as soon as its coming from outside the EU we get hammered.

Mick

----------


## Timo Qvintus

oh, man.. best production-tachi out there? (not much competition, either)
http://www.samurai-sword-shop.com/Hu...word-tachi.htm

----------


## michael wilson

> oh, man.. best production-tachi out there? (not much competition, either)
> http://www.samurai-sword-shop.com/Hu...word-tachi.htm



Huano sword forge is a fred chen associated forge I believe  - they have a pretty decent reputation for doing mid to high end stuff of good quality  .

this gunto style tachi is pretty nice  - not too gharish or over the the top with the bling , me likey 

Mick

----------


## Gary S

> http://www.thetimeseller.com/eng/item/TNKS_Stock.html


Hey, I thought I'd let you guys know, if you click on that link, the web page it takes you to has a link in the middle LH side that says "custom". If you click that and open their catalogue, the options you have are absolutley staggering!

----------


## Timo Qvintus

> Hey, I thought I'd let you guys know, if you click on that link, the web page it takes you to has a link in the middle LH side that says "custom". If you click that and open their catalogue, the options you have are absolutley staggering!


Yeah, pretty much everything Swordstore, Namikawa and few other places have to offer.. here's the direct link:
http://web.thetimeseller.com/cat_Katana_custom.pdf

----------


## Gary S

Do those other places have the same options for shinken? I'm hoping with my year-end bonus to pick up a mid-level production sword. I'd love to have one of these ...http://jswords.com/galerie_katana-eng.html. However, those are a little beyond my price range ATM, so I'll settle for something functional that looks similiar.

----------


## mscrampton

Dear Mr. Acosta,

I might suggest that you send an email to my very good friend Mr Antonio CeJunior who can provide tons of knowledge in not just translation but marketing issues as well.  cejunior@bladesignforum.com.

Best Regards,

Mike

----------


## Mat Rous

Things are looking up for Production swords this year.

----------


## Timo Qvintus

> Things are looking up for Production swords this year.


..and it's still January!  :Big Grin:

----------


## Mat Rous

> ..and it's still January!


I may even break my promise and go for one more production. Maybe. If those pictures reflect the truth.

The only issue I fear is edge-retention. I got burnt badly last year and had to fight for  9 months to get the money back. Edges that couldn't handle tameshigiri on proper Japanese Wara even though they were advertised as suitable for it.

It's very hard to have faith in a blind purchase after that - at least with custom, you know they know their steel.

----------


## Benjamin P.

If you take a closer look through this link:  http://web.thetimeseller.com/cat_Katana_custom.pdf

...it shows close-up pictures of the kissaki and bo-hi termination on these swords.  I might just be a beginner, but even I can tell they don't look very good.  Same goes for pics of saya customizations.  Looks really amateurish....  I guess what I'm saying is that the pictures of this company's products so far have been very inconsistent.  Some blades look like Dynasty's stone-polished line... others look like Furuyama rejects.  Some mounts look like a custom iaito from Tozando... others look totally unprofessional.  Did they switch forges?  Get new mounters?  How can I know which are old pictures and which are new pictures?   :Confused:  

And I still don't get what's so special about the fact that they're using cheap, mass-produced iaito fittings from Japan, and why that's enough to change everyone's minds about this company.  Basically, they've put up just about every fitting (well, almost) that you can get through Tozando or Jidai.jp, etc. as an option.  

But anyone can purchase those fittings on their own too, get a DF blade at a bargain, and send it out to be mounted... and for probably equal or better looking results... probably for around similar price, if you consider import/custom fees from Spain....  Or you could skip all that and just get one with guaranteed good results from SwordStore.com ....

I'm not qualified enough at all to say that Tengu swords are not any good... just expressing my limited opinion that I'm still skeptical due to some inconsistencies...  If someone would enlighten me about what I'm missing, it'd be great.  I'm always open to learning more.... 

The Konron forge looks interesting... I'm loving the irregular hamons.  I think (I hope) having unique patterns will become the "new thing" for production companies in 2008....  but the shipping to U.S. is $250 or something like that....  I'll wait for a review here on SFI or an offer on the classifieds before I consider buying one....

----------


## Timo Qvintus

Benjamin, remember that the import-fees you're talking about apply to us Europeans when we buy a Dynasty.. and who's there to do customization in Europe? This is Sword Forum International, remember?  :Wink: 

And the fact that they use quality-fittings instead of casting crap like most chinatana-companies do is a pretty damn good thing. At least we know they're durable and reasonably well-made. Oh, and those fittings are not all cheap; for example high-end Namikawa-menuki alone cost $85.

----------


## Benjamin P.

Thanks, Timo.  What about the blades though?  I mean... look at the kissaki on some of those on the pdf link you posted earlier.  

I guess what I'm saying is it would take a lot more than iaito fittings for me to believe that something is a good sword...  And what do we really know about iaito fittings except the fact that they are from Japan?  I'm sure they're great, but what makes them necessarily better than, for example, Paul Chen fittings except the stereotype/bias that Japanese goods are generally made better than Chinese stuff?

Please don't get me wrong.  I'm not saying Tengu are good or bad.  I don't know nearly enough about swords to make that kind of distinction....  All I'm saying is that I am skeptical given the inconsistent pictures, and that it's going to take more than iaito fittings to make me believe that they are good swords, you know?  

To borrow the words of someone who actually knows enough to say such things... Karl J., I think, says that a lot of people try to make a silk purse out of a sow's ear with swords.... 

And just because they are using good fittings doesn't mean that they were used well doesn't it?  I'm just a little weary because of all the threads about tsuka with cracks and breaks.  And posts by experts like Keith Larman have taught me that there is so much more to a good sword and good mount than meets the eye... or what can be seen from a few stock photos...

I'm sorry if anything I wrote sounds argumentative... because that's not what I mean at all.  I have no idea how Tengu are.  Maybe they really are the "bee's knees" (as Michael Wilson says... LOL!!)....  

I guess I'm just really surprised how quickly everyone's opinions changed....

----------


## Timo Qvintus

> Thanks, Timo.  What about the blades though?  I mean... look at the kissaki on some of those on the pdf link you posted earlier.  
> 
> I guess what I'm saying is it would take a lot more than iaito fittings for me to believe that something is a good sword...  And what do we really know about iaito fittings except the fact that they are from Japan?  I'm sure they're great, but what makes them necessarily better than, for example, Paul Chen fittings except the stereotype/bias that Japanese goods are generally made better than Chinese stuff?
> 
> And just because they are using good fittings doesn't mean that they were used well doesn't it?  I'm just a little weary because of all the threads about tsuka with cracks and breaks.  And posts by experts like Keith Larman have taught me that there is so much more to a good sword and good mount than meets the eye... or what can be seen from a few stock photos...


Yeah, I'm hoping those pics are as outdated as the website.  :Wink: 

Indeed, good fittings alone don't make a good sword. I think that what mostly changed people's opinions was the pictures of the new and nice looking swords, not the choice of fittings available. Me, I only look at the blades these days, and the ones I posted pictures of look quite promising (I actually contacted them about the possibility of getting one in shirasaya).

I fully agree that first-hand experience of a seasoned forumite would be in order. I volunteer if I don't have to pay for it (I might even return the sword after reviewing it)!!  :Stick Out Tongue: 
_(provided that I can be appointed by a qualified committee as "seasoned".._)  :Wink:

----------


## Remy B

I agree with benjamin, the HI and the Kissaki are both quite ugly and slopy. If you are going to make a promotional PDF to sell your sword, then i think you would use pictures of what you think is the top of the top that your company is able to produce (as a 2d graphist that make these kind of publication, thats how i think anyways) SO... puting these ugly boshi pictures really worry me as to the final quality of their blades.

This file is not outdated. The PDF was created on 07-05-30 with adobe indesign CS3 ( that is a fairly recent release ) and it got last modified on the same day.

Which lead me to beleive the pictures of Enrique' sword that has a tight hada and fine geometry, is either a tengu of extremely unusual quality for the company or that they are not from the same place. 
This is my personnal opinion, im unrelated to any company or SFI.

----------


## Ricky Arias

Here is a sword . http://westcoasttaikai.com/tozai/kotetsu.htm

----------


## michael wilson

I dont recall saying tengu are the bee's Knees  :Big Grin:   ???

Shipping from the UK or EU to the USA will be no more than $100 max  - ive sent a katana , wakizashi , plus tsuba and other fittings all in the same package and the total cost was $104 USD .

Yeah I like the Konron forge hamons  looks like someone took a bit of time with them instead of getting the good old notare stencil out  :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic): 

they look about as good quality wise as mid range chen blades  - shinto , musashi etc  - what I do like is the lack of pretence with naming the swords , I am  tired of production swords using diamyo and swordsmiths names to shift inferior product .

I doubt Oda Nobunaga or Takeda Shingen would have used some of these $60 swords bearing their names to clean mud from their riding boots  :Big Grin:

----------


## Glen C.

> (provided that I can be appointed by a qualified committee as "seasoned"..)


Once said commitee was selected and gathered together; I would think seasoning would depend on how it was chosen to cook you. Indeed, seasoned at all if served raw. That might simply call for condiment such as wasabi or tamari. Taste and preparation methods being so subjective, it may be a matter of leaving it to drawing straws or game of chance in order to select the one chef to get the job done. For instance, I know I would use entirely different seasonings if braising rather than broiling. Cold or hot smoking might call for entirely different herbs and spices.

Cheers

Hotspur; _are we to prepare the whole beast, or just a specific cut?_

----------


## Benjamin P.

> I dont recall saying tengu are the bee's Knees   ???


  Oops... sorry, I just remember you using the phrase "bee's knees" to describe something else and thought it was hilarious.   :Smilie:

----------


## J. Freeman

> Oops... sorry, I just remember you using the phrase "bee's knees" to describe something else and thought it was hilarious.


What? You don't have that expression over your side of the pond?  :Frown:

----------


## Timo Qvintus

These don't look too shabby either:
http://www.nihontoantiques.com/iaito...ale%20page.htm

----------


## Glen C.

> What? You don't have that expression over your side of the pond?


Yes we do. Archaic though, early 20th century. One I am looking for the origin of is 

"oh dear, bread and beer" (Cape Cod) or "oh dear, pretzels and beer" (Waltham/ Boston)

I am trying to determine wheteher these are strictly New England, or whether there was a British or continental root. I have one other vauge reference to Chicago.

Thanks in advance.

Hotspur; _sorry for the sidebars_

----------


## Timo Qvintus

> Hotspur; _sorry for the sidebars_


Have you had a drink or two, maybe..?  :Stick Out Tongue:

----------


## Rufino Acosta

Hello everyone again, I'm sorry for the late reply.

For the moment I'm on a trip, so maybe I'll not replying everything today.

About the catalogue, as you can see is 2007 one and it was made on the end of the 2006, it is at this moment outdated, and the pictures of the blades specially are from 2006, we're working on the 2008 catalogue with everything updated, specially the blades. Those we used were, in fact, from another forgery not good as the one we use today. The kissaki polishing and the boshi were, I agree, horrible. When I have a minute I'll post some pictures of the new blades.

The Catalogue will be updated in a very few weeks, maybe 4 or 6 max, since it is our main selling method, as commented in other posts, the custom katana. Some of the techniques, finishes, tsukamakis etc, are not available, or, changed radically. Per example wakizashi blades will be available, tanto as well. 

*Timo* asked for shirasaya, I make the comment just because maybe some are wondering also. Were thinking on the possibility to sell our blades in Shirasaya, but, we need to se if that will be worth and if it is enough market for that, anyway I thank Timo for the question and interest.  :Wink: 

That boshi Issue appointed in a earlier post, were from a blade we sent to the trash, as we need to make much tests, sometimes blades has failures. Also, that pictures were posted by Roman, which normally shows to the customers images before asking me about the permission to show them, he is too much enthusiast, and sometimes shows pictures not to be shown by non-Tengu Staff  :Wink:  You may know what I mean. 

Were planning on a tachi also, but thats another history, for the moment we have the pieces and its on design, test and fail phase, it can pass a good bunch of months before the project sees the light.  

I do not like to appear like Im making excuses about this, and everything you, gentle forumites, appointed, but Tengu is a young company yet, we have lots of work, little help, and too much to do, but were on the move! 

Just for your info, our actual production cue is like three months at this moment, that means if you order a custom katana well need something like twelve weeks because of the actual work charge. 

About the comment from *Benjamin*, maybe people changed his mind about tengu because, they're getting reasonable explanations and, good pics, but that's just a suggestion.  :Big Grin: 

Thanks everyone for your attention, and I repeat Im here for everything I can help.  :Big Grin:

----------


## Remy B

M Acosta, trying to improve is a nice thing. Better than trying to deceive with edited pictures. 
Show us some recent boshi pictures soon  :Smilie:

----------


## michael wilson

It depends what context you want to look at the tengu swords - 
when they were touted as " as close to nihonto as it gets " or when people were insisting these were 'custom' swords  - 

well I think our comments and critique were quite justified IMO.

but if in the beginning they had been billed as ' mid to high end production swords ' well we wouldnt have been so judgemental or indeed so focused on bohi termination and boshi patterning because they would have been _production_swords   :Smilie:  IMO we would have been praising them for using japanese made kodogu.

if somethings going to be trumpeted as 'close to nihonto as it gets' it better hope it is indeed the _bee's knees_ , if it isnt it'll catch hell on these boards  :Wink: 


Mick

----------


## Timo Qvintus

I vote that further discussion of Tengu, whether custom or production, would be moved to a thread of it's own.

----------


## michael wilson

It would be a better idea Timo, as its unfair to devote this thread to one make IMO, and they deserve a fair shake as it where  - to 
respond to questions put to them only .


Mick

----------

