# Communities > Antique Arms & Armour Community > Antique & Military Sword Forum >  The evolution of German P guard swords

## George Wheeler

Once again I thought I would start a thread on something of interest to me... the evolution of German P guard swords.  These are called P guard swords because of the distinctive shape of the guard.  Of course this is collector terminology.  The German makers offered several distinct types of P guard swords over the years that they named and numbered in their period catalogs.  The plain pommel swords were often called an Einheitssäbel with the polished and unadorned examples often called a Glatter Säbel.  These plain pommel P guard swords are nowadays usually referred to as dove hilt swords by collectors.  German makers also made P guard swords with lion head pommels, panther head pommels, and eagle head pommels and generally called these by those names.  

The distinctive P guard sword seems to have evolved in German service during Imperial times and was popular and well known by 1900.  German military officers and civil officials normally had to buy their own uniforms and swords and they had choices within the existing regulations.  Enlisted men who required swords had their sword issued to them but if they wished a better than issue sword for walking out dress they had to purchase those as well.  

There were various distinctive styles of swords that were worn by the different German states such as the Prussian Model 1889 Infantry Officer sword or the Bavarian Artillery Officer sword.  By circa 1900 the P guard sword was being worn by many German mounted troops and was popular among officers as an undress weapon.  By WWI this sword was well entrenched and was worn by many officers.  A general rule of thumb in dating these swords is that if the scabbard has two suspension rings the sword predates circa 1909 when the regulations changed from two rings to one on sword scabbards.  

Here is an example of a plain-jane Glatter Säbel  made during Imperial times by WK&C.  

First, an overall view of the sword showing that it has a plated one ring scabbard.  Notice the single Imperial style hanger with regain chain and the gold color Beamte Portepee.

Second, a closeup view of the hilt showing the polished tombak hilt in golden color.  Notice the sharkskin grip and "1920" marking on the langet.

Third, a closeup view of the "1920" marking on the langet.  This is a government property marking indicating that this sword continued to be used during the time of the Weimar Republic.  It also indicates that this sword was government property and not a private purchase by an officer or official.

Fourth, a view of the etched blade showing the polished steel (unplated) blade on this officer style sword.

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## George Wheeler

Here is another example of a P guard polished sword that was worn by German Fire Departments.  This sword continued to be worn with a leather scabbard with two suspension rings well after 1909 and is a good example of an exception to the rule of thumb mentioned earlier.  The Feuerwehr continued to wear these swords well into the time of the Weimar Republic but some metal scabbards will be found with single ring suspension during the NS Zeit.  This sword has no maker mark.

First, an overall view of the sword showing the black leather scabbard with three fittings and two suspension rings.

Second, a closeup view of the fittings.  These are polished nickel-silver known as German Silver.  The Portepee is a Feuerwehr Officier knot as indicated by the silver wire cords and pink insert in the bottom of the ball.

Third, a view of the hilt showing the polished and unplated silver color German-silver hilt.  Notice the sharkskin grip and the reenforcement block at the juncture of the guard.  This reenforcement block is usually found on P guard officer swords in this weak spot.

Fourth, a closeup view of the etching on the blade showing ladders, hooks, and other fire fighting apparatus.

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## George Wheeler

One more example of a polished P guard sword that was an item of issue.  This is a NS Zeit sword that was made by Alexander Coppel in 1935 and was issued to Officers and Senior NCOs who required a sword for their position.  These swords were made in three sizes (1 - 2 - 3) and were issued according to the height of the wearer.  

First, an overall view of the sword showing the polished brass hilt and blued steel scabbard.  

Second, a view of the matching markings found on the scabbard and the sword guard.  The scabbard is also serial numbered to the sword.

Third, a view of the hilt of the sword showing the polished brass guard with a reenforcement block and the black celluloid covered wooden grips.  

Fourth, a view of the back of the hilt showing the attachment of the Officers sword knot through the leather finger loop.

Fifth, a view of the attachment of the sword blade to the hilt and the German WaA markings found on the sword as an inspected item of issue.

I will post some other P guard swords later.  Anyone with interesting variations of these P guard swords is invited to post their examples.

George

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## George Wheeler

To continue the thread with a few more plain-Jane P guard swords, here is another Imperial Glatter (polished) sword.  This sword is a polished tombak sword made by Clemen und Jung and distributed by E & H Neuhaus in Solingen.  It is a Fusilier sword that was issued to the Prussian Land Gendarmerie.

First, an overall view of the sword showing the black leather scabbard with two polished tombak fittings.  Notice that this sword was not worn on slings or a strap hanger but was worn in a frog.  Also, notice that the plain polished blade is a quill back with the rounded back becoming the median re-enforcement at the center of the tip in the foible of the blade.  

Second, a view of the plain Glatter hilt showing the reenforcement block at the juncture of the P guard and the sharkskin grip. 

Third, a view of the Land Gendarmerie property markings on the reverse langet and scabbard throat.

Fourth, a closeup of the L.G. markings showing round full stops after each letter.  This particular die stamp was used by the Prussian Land Gendarmerie.  A similar stamp with square shaped full stops (periods) after each letter was utilized by Saxon Land Gendarmerie armorers.

Fifth, a view of the hilt of a Saxon Police sword in polished tombak.  This unplated sword blade is marked Hast & Uhthoff / Dresden.  This is a distributor and not a maker marking.  Notice that Saxon P guard swords do not typically have langets as do the P guard swords of other German states.  Also, notice the lack of pinned "ears" on the backstrap, which is also typical of Saxon P guard swords.  This sword is also a serial numbered item of issue and the distinctive green and white Saxon Portepee is in the correct tye on the guard.

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## George Wheeler

Issue swords are the best examples of what were official regulation.  Since private purchase swords could take liberties with finishes, etchings, engravings, etc. it is always best to look at German swords that were items of issue, like those above, to determine what was strict regulation.

Here is an enlisted P guard sword that was made by Alexander Coppel in 1905 and was first an item of issue to mounted Prussian troops.  

First, an overall view of the sword showing the polished steel hilt and blade.  The blued steel scabbard has a single fixed ring and is typically numbered to the sword.  These massive swords remained in service throughout WWII.

Second, a view of the hilt showing the polished steel finish and the bakelite grips.  This particular sword saw service in WWI and remained in service through the time of the Weimar Republic as indicated by the "1920" property marking on the obverse langet.  The knot is an enlisted Polizei Portepee as this particular sword also saw service during WWII with the Mounted Police.

Third, a view of the property markings on the reverse of the guard indicating continued use by the German Police well after the 1905 manufacture date.  These markings indicate issue to the Schutzpolizei of Leignitz and the sword would have been carried by mounted policemen.

These Imperial mounted swords were continually refurbished and re-issued to the police and military until the end of WWII.  Some will be found with wooden or bakelite grips and some will have Imperial cypher inspection markings and some will have NS Zeit eagle/swastika Waffen Amt (WaA) inspection markings.  This massive sword is a grosser size of weapon and some Imperial private purchase officer swords were also made in this large size.

Fourth, an example of a private purchase enlisted sword by Höller that mimics the above item of issue.  This sword is shown in their period catalog as a Nr.1 Mannschafts Säbel  This sword is smaller and lighter in weight and has a plated hilt and blade.  Notice that the private purchase sword does not have a block at the juncture of the guard and the white finish mimics the polished steel of the issue sword.  This particular private purchase sword also has an etched blade, which was an extra cost option and is seldom found on WWII period enlisted swords of this type.  The colored Heer enlisted knot is a Faustriemen variation that has a stem that is not often seen on this style of knot.

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## dominic grant

An excellent thread I find my self moved towards a few of the latter German swords They please me in an esthetic way where as my true obsession is anything pre 1820

I have just aquired this Waffen sword which I liked owing to the knucklebow being so extended I have never seen anything like it and rather than an accidental dent it looks to be by design

is this anything you have run across before?

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## George Wheeler

Dominic,

Does your sword have a maker mark on the blade?  It looks rather like a Krebs Nr.4 but I can't be certain.  If this is a Krebs, it should have a regular P shaped guard, so I would suppose that your guard received a good thump to give it this shape.  These brass guards can be straightened but one must be very careful.

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## Mark McMorrow

Interesting thread, George.

Here are a Prussian lion head _Artillerie Offizier Sabel_, with etched quill back blade (WK&C) and a dove head artillery (Pack Ohliger & Co.).

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## George Wheeler

Mark,

Thanks for showing your two P guard swords.  The Imperial WK&C Artillery officer has a nice lion head pommel and a lion head on the end of the quillon.  Two lions for the price of one.  

Here are a couple of other non-lion head private purchase officer swords with P guards.

First, a gilt brass plain-Jane officer sword made by Clemen u. Jung.  This brass hilt sword has an extra cost etched blade however.  The knot is a Heer Offizier Portepee.  

Second, a closeup view of the etched blade on the Clemen u. Jung.  The etch is generic so this sword could have been worn by any Army officer or Official.  

Third, a nickel plated plain-Jane officer sword made by ACS (Alexander Coppel Solingen).

Fourth, a closeup view of the ACS hilt showing the silver colored hilt with a block on the guard like the gold CuJ shown above.  The Portepee is a Polizei knot.

Fifth, a closeup view of the Bavarian motto etched on the blade.  This sword is interesting in that it is not a regulation Bavarian sword and seems to be a private purchase transitional officer sword worn by the Bavarian Police from the time of the Nazis coming to power prior to the introduction of the standardized circa 1938 Polizei Degen.

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## Mark McMorrow

Hey George,

Any chance you have a period photo or two illustrating 'P-guards' being worn???

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## George Wheeler

Mark,

I am having some vista scanning issues at the moment but I have a few poor photos of photograph albums that I can post.

First, a photo of a Hussar Traditions Unit showing soldiers wearing several P guard swords.  The album shows the transfer of the old Imperial flags to the new Wehrmacht unit.  

Second, a closeup of a Weimar Republic period policeman's P guard sword.

Third, a Heer NCO wearing a plain-Jane P guard with walking out dress.

Fourth, A Landespolizei General wearing a P guard sword.

Fifth, a really blurry photo of soldiers swearing their oath on the bare blade of a P guard sword.

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## George Wheeler

I thought I would post an Eickhorn store card showing some of their more popular P guard swords.  These cards were used by retailers to show officers various styles of swords that were available for purchase through the retailer.  

This card could be hung on the wall or stood on a counter and is a nice period collectable in its own right.  The back of the card has a table so the officer could determine which blade length he required according to his height.

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## Mark McMorrow

George,

Thats interesting.  Do you have any retailer ephemera earlier than 3rd Reich period?

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## N White

Very interesting.  Slightly off topic, what length does the card suggest for someone 6'3"?  I can't make it out enough to try to figure it out.

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## George Wheeler

> George,
> 
> Thats interesting.  Do you have any retailer ephemera earlier than 3rd Reich period?


Mark,

I do have varous ephemera from retailers and makers, mostly in the form of catalogs, store cards, sword bags & tags, etc.  Most of these paper things are from more recent times but other more tangable goodies survived better than ephemera.  For instance, I have brushes from the Ames Sword Company and leather and cloth sword bags from as far back as the US CIvil War.

N.White,

I suspect that a 6'3" fellow would be at the top of the available blade lengths.  Issue swords came in three lengths only for tall, medium, and short soldiers.  These sizes were stamped on the blade as 1, 2, or 3 as part of the typical military quartermaster mindset of three sizes fit all.  There are lots of photos out there with pictures of soldiers wearing too short a sword though.  Must have annoyed their Sergeant who had the key to the arms locker.  

George

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## Larry B

I thought you might like to see this sword.  It is Pre-WWI with a presentation on the reverse, "Zur Erinerrung an die Kriegschulezeit 1906-07" that translates to "In Remembrance of the War School Time 1906-07"  On the obverse it has "von Zitzewitz s/l Helwig (I think that's the name it has been a long time since I have seen it) It is a heavy weight ladder pattern damascus blade with no makers mark visible.  Sorry about the quality of the photos, the sword is in a glass display case that hangs on my office wall.

I can't get vista to downsize my photos enough to post directly.  It seems my camera has "issues".

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b3...6/IMG_0201.jpg
http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b3...IMG_0202-1.jpg

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## Mark McMorrow

Very fine example, Larry.  Is that an original lance pennon I see??

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## Larry B

Yes,  and for the really sharp of eye you will note that it was mounted upside down by the framer.  I also have the WKC mfg'd. lance.

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## George Wheeler

Larry,

That is an outstanding P guard presentation sword!  Gilt presentation ladder pattern Damast  blades are few and far between.  Thanks for posting it.  Any more hiding in the closets?

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## Larry B

I have a couple more stuck away, but that's the most spectacular.  one of these days I may dismount it from the case and do some close ups.

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