# Communities > Antique Arms & Armour Community > Middle-East, India & Africa (MEIA) >  Need Help with ID, Short sword or dagger??

## Jeff Boca

Hello all,
What a very nice forum you all have here. I have just come across this one and I dont have a clue. Was sure someone in here could help me to identify this beauty. May even be a repro, like I said I dont know anything about them. I think the handle is bone or rhino. I also believe the metal is silver, again these are just my no-nothing observations.
I will put up the photos and hope someone can help me out.
Thanks in advance,
Jeff

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## Gene Wilkinson

Hi Jeff,
Your dagger is from North Africa, Morocco and it is called a Janwi or Genoui I believe.
A nice example. Good scabbard too.

Best
Gene

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## Jeff Boca

> Hi Jeff,
> Your dagger is from North Africa, Morocco and it is called a Janwi or Genoui I believe.
> A nice example. Good scabbard too.
> 
> Best
> Gene


Thank you very much for your info Gene. I was wondering if you could tell me what the symbols mean, I think it may be the makers mark? or if you knew from what time period this is?

Thanks again,
Jeff

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## Gene Wilkinson

> Thank you very much for your info Gene. I was wondering if you could tell me what the symbols mean, I think it may be the makers mark? or if you knew from what time period this is?
> 
> Thanks again,
> Jeff


Hi Jeff,

The symbols are interesting like a £ sign and western numerals. I have no idea what they mean, sorry.
As for a date, I'd place it to 1920-1930ish.

The rust on the blade is a concern, you need to clean that off as a priority and oil the blade. Some fine wire wool and wd40 would do it.

Best
Gene

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## Jeff Boca

> Hi Jeff,
> 
> The symbols are interesting like a £ sign and western numerals. I have no idea what they mean, sorry.
> As for a date, I'd place it to 1920-1930ish.
> 
> The rust on the blade is a concern, you need to clean that off as a priority and oil the blade. Some fine wire wool and wd40 would do it.
> 
> Best
> Gene


Thanks again Gene for all of you great info, and yes I will get on that rust right away.
I am still very curious about this Dagger though, as the info was good but not much. And there is the mysterious designs and symbols.
How does one find out the whole story behind these works of art? Like were exactly where they made, how were they made, when were they made, for whom were they made...etc..etc..

Thanks again,
Jeff

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## Gene Wilkinson

> Thanks again Gene for all of you great info, and yes I will get on that rust right away.
> I am still very curious about this Dagger though, as the info was good but not much. And there is the mysterious designs and symbols.
> How does one find out the whole story behind these works of art? Like were exactly where they made, how were they made, when were they made, for whom were they made...etc..etc..
> 
> Thanks again,
> Jeff


Hi Jeff,

The short answer is that usually you don't.
Unless your item has a makers name with place of origin and date (which occasionally happends), then comes with a known provenance from the original purchaser or the person who sold it kept records which survive to this day..... You get the idea.
If you are lucky enough to be researching a sword by the world famous British sword maker Wilkinson (From whom I borrow my nom de plume) then chances are that all these pieces might fall into place. But with a small ethnograpic piece, you would have to be really lucky.
It doesn't happen often as a percentage of pieces out there.
You can try searching the net for provenanced examples that match yours, you can try and decipher the markings on the sheath (I don't think they are a date and makers name though) but there's a lot of luck involved.
You know what it is and where it was made, a date can be guessed at, TBH thats acceptable pending further developments.

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## Gene Wilkinson

Jeff,

Its a good item. Don't worry that it still has a few secrets. You should still be very pleased with it.

BEst
Gene

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## L. Braden

Do any of you gents detect the number "86" or "98" on the scabbard, or is this just a coincidental arabesque?

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## L. Braden

Ignore the previous post. I didn't read the other posts carefully enough.

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## Sancar Ozer

I think the fourth picture definitely shows 86 or 98 numerals while the "9" shapes in fifth picture are just part of the decoration. It might be arabic letter "waw" that is sometimes used as a decorative element. I couldn't recognize other symbols but I suspect those might also be letters, symbols or signs used randomly as part of the decorative scheme, not forming an inscription.

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## L. Braden

Thanks indeed, Sancar! I agree.

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## D. Mayeux

> Do any of you gents detect the number "86" or "98" on the scabbard, or is this just a coincidental arabesque?


it's wrote (vocabulary for Arab language from Maghreb)
"A'AM" either "YEAR"
and above (18?) (19?) 86
cannot said more, excepted that it's a very nice "janwi/genoui" dagger

à +

Dom

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## Gene Wilkinson

> it's wrote (vocabulary for Arab language from Maghreb)
> "A'AM" either "YEAR"
> and above (18?) (19?) 86
> cannot said more, excepted that it's a very nice "janwi/genoui" dagger
> 
> à +
> 
> Dom


Hi Dom,

Good to see you here! Welcome to the forum.

Kind Regards
Gene

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