# Communities > Antique Arms & Armour Community > Chinese, South-East Asia (CSEA) >  Thoughts On This Rehafted Lance/Spear

## Glen C.

I have had this for some years now and am still looking for any thoughts on it. the seller, Rob Miller of Lion Gate had it listed as possibly Japanese. I assume he made that speculation because of the cluster of leaves maybe being a mon. I have had some conversations at show tables with this and some have said Phillipines others elsehwere. One in five pick it up and immediately see a dragon carved in the bone. I had not until it was pointed out to me. I am not able to capture the carving well in photos but may try again.

The blade has a lot of indications of being pretty old and some seperation of the piled and forged construction. The blade had been reground at some time, almost like it had been dug and then reground when the handle work was done.

A mystery piece I still place to the Pacific rim or islands somewhere but an odd mix of elements. I sort of went on a Zen tangent for a couple of years, that maybe the lily leaves represent the ponds of tranquility but I have yet to find a good match for the symbology. The cluster theme is also repeated at one part of the carving. The leaves are individual and on their own wire stems.

Thanks in advance for further thought.

Cheers

Hotspur; _it was suggested I post this here some years ago and just never got around to it_

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## Glen C.

A few more. I can never make the dragon jump right out but I can see some toes and scales sometimes. A little larger overall view.

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## David Lewis Smith

ask Mr Manachour

I have an odd feeling that this might be from the middle east.  cant say why, I have spent a good deal of time there so perhaps it is subconscious.  On the other hand I have spent a good deal of time there so perhaps it could be a  prefixation 

David

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## J.G. Hopkins

I have seen this first hand and there is _definitely_ a dragon on the grip!

Jonathan

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## josh stout

Well I think I can rule out a Chinese origin, it is all wrong for that.  The blade shape reminds me of Philippine work, while the leaves are definitely hollyhocks. (http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=...&ct=image&cd=1)

Hollyhocks tend to indicate Japanese stuff.  Bone carvings with relatively shallow carving combined with gold leaf makes me think it could have been rehafted for show.  Together these somewhat vague conclusions might indicate it was made for sale or commissioned during the Japanese occupation of the Philippines.  Would a Japanese spear head be as similar to this one as the Philippine spears are?  

I would love to get a better idea of the carvings.  If you wrapped the handle in paper and rubbed a black crayon over the surface does it produce a usable picture?  

What would point one toward the Middle East?  I thought they didn't go in for figurative art so much.  But then again there are animals and people depicted on many Persian/Afghan rugs so perhaps this is a bit of a myth.
Josh

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## Glen C.

Hi Josh,

Interesting thoughts about the leaf ID and possible origin. I did have circumstance one year to have two opinions offered the same day at the table. One islander of mixed Spanish/tribal descendancy, and another of strictly tribal. Odd there that the Latin was adamant about the carving being tribal Filipino work and the native adamant about the blade itself being "Moorish, definitely Moorish".

I will attempt a rubbing and have put that on a to do list. No crayons but I've lots of charcoal. I do suppose green carved bone could have cracked in this manner over less than a few years and that sixty years or so could account for the amount of grime and verdegris accumulated as seen in the "before" picture of the leaves. Despite the verdegris it does seem a gold alloy of some sort, as the brilliance and luster were acheived through only gentle cleaning. I did have a volunteer here wil a book of Japanese family mon take a look but he didn't come across a good match. I have an old thread regarding this that goes back to 2002. Japan had all but been eliminated from the equation until you now bringing up hollyhocks instead of lilies (pretty similar leaf forms).

The spear form itself is more ubiquitous to other cultures and not Chinese or Japanese. I have found no match in either culture for this spear/lance form. It really does have the appearance (and grind marks) of having been reshaped (or ground clean) in it's more recent history. 

Perhaps as you say, it was done in fairly modern times and strictly for display purpose. If hollyhocks and of Japanese influence in that sense, it still remains a mystery as to any significance of the overlaid pattern, which also appears as a circle and dots in the carving (albeit one dot less).

Cheers

Hotspur; _I will attempt a rubbing and photo of that soon_

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