# Communities > Antique Arms & Armour Community > Antique & Military Sword Forum >  Khor sword

## Vladimir Sukhomlinov

Hello.
I wanted to ask the opinion of experts on the Khor sword, which is shown in the attached photos.
On the sword handle type "Indian basket" and a blade that does not have a sharpening on the blade.
Is it a battle sword or a ritual sword?
To what period can it be attributed?
Is this sword interesting for the collection or is it not worth paying attention to it?
Thanks in advance to everyone who showed interest in my topic.
Sincerely, Vladimir.

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## Vladimir Sukhomlinov

More photos of the handle

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## Gene Wilkinson

Good afternoon Vladimir,

As I think you suspect from the lack of sharpening, this is not a functional piece.

There are a group of decorative Indian items from the early 20th century that share the construction of the blade on this Kora.
By that I mean that the crude engraving and applied brass decoration are consistant throughout the range.

It seems that these were made specifically to appeal to foreigners that wanted decorative wall-hangers.
I know that it seems ilogical that when there must have been a million genuine antiques available, that people would buy decorative pieces, but these provided a semi-standardised product that could be sold in large numbers.
The range was even featured in the Bannerman catalogues of the 1920s.

On a happier note, I seem to remember that in at least some cases, original old hilts were used.
In the case of your Kora, this would seem to be the case and I would think that the hilt is considerably older.

Other items in this range included amonst others, Katar, maces and perhaps most frequently seen, axes.
If I have a chance, I'll see if I can find some supporting pictures for you.

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## Gene Wilkinson

A couple of similarly decorated wall-hangers from that period.

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## Gene Wilkinson

In conclusion, these are interesting and the one you show is unusual.
They are also probobly around 100 years old give or take.

As I say above, I would guess that the hilt on yours is significantly older than the blade.

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## Vladimir Sukhomlinov

Hello Gene.
Thank you very much for your answer.
Thanks to your information, I will refrain from acquiring this sword.
I have long had a Talvar, with a blade, it seems to me, not characteristic of Indian swords.
In order not to create unnecessary topics on the forum, in the evening I will take a photo of this sword and put it in the subject. I would like to hear an opinion about him.

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## Vladimir Sukhomlinov

Here is such a talwar in my collection. The knknock of this saber (in my opinion) practically repeats the blades of Caucasian sabers (shashka) from which the blade of Russian shashka 1881 year.

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## Vladimir Sukhomlinov

On the blade near the handle there are some symbols from different sides of the blade, in appearance similar to some hallmarks, similar to a smile and seemingly like an Arabic script, if this is not a figment of my imagination and damage to the blade, although damage could not be done on both sides of the click in one place and resemble each other.

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## Vladimir Sukhomlinov

The hilt was once apparently coated with either silver or some other light metal, since this coating remained in some places.

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## Vladimir Sukhomlinov

The combat end of the blade is sharpened on both sides.
The saber apparently has not been sharpened since its youth, since there are no signs of sharpening on the blade, but the blade is still sharp and if you grab it with your palm and pull it, your hand will be cut.

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## Vladimir Sukhomlinov

What is the opinion of this saber - is it really not a typical blade on it or is it quite common for similar Indian sabers?

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## Vladimir Sukhomlinov

I also wanted to hear the opinion of another Kora (Khor), which is in my collection.
Its blade is sharpened from the concave side (sharp to the touch) and has a protrusion from the wavy side of the combat end. But now something I'm not sure that the blade and hilt were originally on the other blade. On the handle there is a crack between the two halves, through which the blade shank is visible. And it can be seen that the hilt inside is not flooded with a sand-tarred mixture, as is the case with Idian sabers with similar hilt.
Is this also a tourist sample?

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## Vladimir Sukhomlinov

One more photo

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## Vladimir Sukhomlinov

more photo

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## Vladimir Sukhomlinov

Thank you in advance for your answers.
Sincerely, Vladimir.

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## Gene Wilkinson

> What is the opinion of this saber - is it really not a typical blade on it or is it quite common for similar Indian sabers?


Hi Vladimir,

I think that this looks to be a good 18th century Tulwar.
The Indians were great admirers of imported blades and even made copies of them.
I agree that the engraving on the blade looks like arabic, but I tend to think that it's part of a picture. 
This is I think an imported blade and would have been a good fighting sword in it's day.
As you say, the hilt has lost it's silvering, but is a nice shape and would have looked very striking with koftgari decoration.

I would asy that this is the equivilent of a medium rank officers sword in western terms.

Rather nice.

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## Gene Wilkinson

Hi Vladirmir

The Kora looks like a good old one.
As you point out, the hilt looks to have been replaced and not without some hammer marks to the blade and the seam splitting on the hilt (possibly after fitting and during use).

A good thing overall I'd say.

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## Vladimir Sukhomlinov

Gene, thanks for your answers.
They helped me a lot in order to figure out the swords and not buy a fake.
Sincerely, Vladimir.

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## Gene Wilkinson

Hi Vladimir

All the items that you have shown are good in their own way.
All antique and all collectable.

It's just a question of what fits with your taste and your collection.

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## Vladimir Sukhomlinov

In the collection you need to have original battle swords, and not made specifically so that they adorn the walls of buildings, even if they were made for stolen and a hundred years ag

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## Mark Cain

> On the blade near the handle there are some symbols from different sides of the blade, in appearance similar to some hallmarks, similar to a smile and seemingly like an Arabic script, if this is not a figment of my imagination and damage to the blade, although damage could not be done on both sides of the click in one place and resemble each other.


Vladimir, I think you are looking at a very worn etch of the "man-in-the-moon" talismanic symbol that shows only the narrow ends of the moon and the nose and mouth of the face. I added an example to your photo and positioned it roughly in the same plane as your sword so you can see it how it matches.

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## Vladimir Sukhomlinov

Mark, thanks for the answer.
And what does this symbol on the sword mean?

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## Vladimir Sukhomlinov

This is what I found on the Internet - in Hinduism, a religion that has several thousand years of history, the crescent moon was one of the attributes of one of the supreme gods - God Shiva. He wears a crescent moon in his hairstyle. This sign in this case symbolizes the ability to control your mind, mental processes.
Having put this symbol on the blade, its owner, as I think, apparently wanted to enlist the support of the god Shiva.
Now for me there are no mysteries in my sword  :Smilie: 
Thanks again to everyone.
Sincerely, Vladimir.

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## Gene Wilkinson

> Vladimir, I think you are looking at a very worn etch of the "man-in-the-moon" talismanic symbol that shows only the narrow ends of the moon and the nose and mouth of the face. I added an example to your photo and positioned it roughly in the same plane as your sword so you can see it how it matches.


lol, as soon as I saw your post Mark, I couldn't believe that I didn't 'see it'.
Great catch!

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## Gene Wilkinson

Vladimir,

Mark's confirmation that the design is a crescent moon would confirm that this is an imported blade rather than a local blade in European style.

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## Vladimir Sukhomlinov

Hello.
Gene, is it a Muslim symbol or is it still a stylized image of Shyva?
The moon and crescent symbol has been used in various cultures and religions, how to understand where the blade was imported from or maybe the symbol was already applied in India when the handle was mounted on the blade.
With best regards, Vladimir.

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## Vladimir Sukhomlinov

Thanks again for the answer in the topic.

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## Gene Wilkinson

Hi Vladimir,

Many trade blades from Europe were decorated with symbols.
As you rightly point out, these are universal symbols common to most cultures.
If you do a search, you will see many blades from the 18th/19th century with these designs on them.
Like this one from Artzi's site:

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## Vladimir Sukhomlinov

Hi Gene.
Yes, the picture on the blade shown by you is almost the same as on mine, only on mine it is pretty much erased.
I found information that the engraving of the image of the sun and the crescent with a human face is peculiar to German masters of the seventeenth and eighteenth centuries. Straight and curved blades were popular in Eastern Europe and the Caucasus. Caucasians loved them very much and often used for drafts, especially Circassian. In the Caucasus, such blades were called Abbas-Mirza.
So we can conclude that the blade on my banner was brought from Europe or it came to India from the Caucasus.
In his book Indian and Eastern Cold Steel, Lord Egerton, describing the weapons of the Muslims of Decar and Mysore, indicated that modern European weapons have been widely used in Mysore and South India since the days of Geider Ali and his successor. His workshops were located in Seringopatam, Bengaluru, Chitaldrug and Nagar.
During the capture of Seringopotam, many different weapons were captured. Many of these trophies were delivered to England by the East India Company and were gifted to high-ranking individuals. Thus, in private collections were some examples of this period.

Since the Talvar came to me from England, it is possible that he was captured during the capture of Seringopatam and transported to England (but this is only my guess  :Smilie: ).
For me, the topic was very informative.
With best regards, Vladimir.

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## Vladimir Sukhomlinov

Here is a similar image on a clique of a Caucasian saber (shashka).

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## Gene Wilkinson

HI Vladimir,

I'd have guessed that it was European and likely German.
As to how it came to be in the UK, we do have a very long and 'complicated' history with India.
There are huge numbers of weapons that were brought back from our meddlings in that part of the world.
Identifying a piece to a single battle is nearly impossible as we were involved in so many.

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