# Communities > Antique Arms & Armour Community > Antique & Military Sword Forum >  Help with name initials on a Wilkinson again!

## Matt Easton

Hi folks - I've asked for help with these a few times in the past, but it has always proven most useful - I know some of you are very experienced at working with the sometimes wacky Victorian letters. First up, I'll say that I think this is GS. I've had a few Wilkinsons through my hands where this second letter turned out to be an S, despite to the modern eye looking more like a Y or a J or suchlike.
So, what are your opinions based on other Victorian blade initials - GS? Or G something else? Or something else entirely?!

Thanks,
Matt

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## Mark Thomas

I agree,I think the initials are GS.

Here are examples of the Victorian alphabet showing very similar characters,

https://www.google.co.th/search?q=vi...-I-0TWyfaZM%3A

 Cheers

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## Matt Easton

Thanks Mark - yes I think it must be GS.

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## Will Mathieson

Nice sword with Toledo blade. Did you win it at auction yesterday?

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## Richard Dellar

> Thanks Mark - yes I think it must be GS.


Matt

Initials on the sword of George Sapte Burnand (also by Wilkinson)

Richard

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## gordon byrne

Matt,

GS

Gordon

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## Matt Easton

Thank you gentlemen. Yes, it must be GS, and yes I did win it yesterday Will  :Smilie:  Unfortunately the serial number does not give any useful information and there are quite a crowd of possible GS candidates. I'll post full photos when I have it, but the hilt is very similar to one of Richard's swords for the 7th Hussars. The blade is a large straight Toledo type.

Thanks all,
Matt

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## Matt Easton

Preview:

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## Will Mathieson

Matt glad you got it. It went for a good sum. Too bad the blank space on the guard did not have identifying markings. Good luck finding the owner, I'm sure it could be narrowed down.

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## Matt Easton

Thanks Will, yes it seems to be blank where Richard's has the 7the Hussars. I know another hilt like this to an officer of the Bengal Artillery which is also blank, so that may be some kind of clue. It also has a distinctive scabbard which may be a clue. Unfortunately there are a lot of plausible possibilities for GS in both Hart's and the India list. I need another clue. A photo would be great!.. I'm also hoping the serial number is not what has been reported, as that number relates to a claymore and none of the other nearby numbers seem to relate to it either (one of my swords is one digit different in the ledger).

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## Matt Easton

I'd also like to thank Jonathan for his great help so far. 
Matt

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## Will Mathieson

When I saw the sword my first impression was British India regiment. However they were known for cutting blades and this is a Toledo blade, I have a Coldstream Guards sword 1855 with Toledo blade. Your scabbard drag appears to be Wilkinson, I don't think was later modified.
Lets hope the serial number reported is incorrect and the actual number leads to a match.

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## Matt Easton

Indeed! The serial number providing some new evidence would be great. This certainly isn't a claymore!
I suspect it is an Indian, probably Bengal, service sword. Straight blades certainly were used in India by some officers. I'll have to wait until I have it in hand to speculate or say more though.

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## John Hart

> Indeed! The serial number providing some new evidence would be great. This certainly isn't a claymore!
> I suspect it is an Indian, probably Bengal, service sword. Straight blades certainly were used in India by some officers. I'll have to wait until I have it in hand to speculate or say more though.


Good plan, Matt - I bought a sword at auction a few months ago where the auctioneer had forgotten to mention that the owner's name was etched on the back edge - saved me hours of painful research!

On the identification issue, I have a definitely Indian sword which was described as a Claymore in its proof book entry - it's quite a bit later than yours, but the blade is similar (it's not what I would call a proper Toledo style, though).  This was described as "Lord Willoughby d'Eresby's pattern", and while that might be just referring to the Scottish hilt illustrated which it once sported, the similarity of the blade profile is interesting.

John

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## Matt Easton

Fascinating, thanks John. That's a cracking sword! I've never seen a blade quite like that before - like a cross between a Percy and a Toledo. Also interesting to note that it's 36 inches long, like mine. Very interesting that they changed the guard but kept the grip - promotion to Major perhaps?

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## John Hart

> Fascinating, thanks John. That's a cracking sword! I've never seen a blade quite like that before - like a cross between a Percy and a Toledo. Also interesting to note that it's 36 inches long, like mine. Very interesting that they changed the guard but kept the grip - promotion to Major perhaps?


And just a weird combination on the original sword of Scottish basket hilt with walnut grip!?!?

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## Matt Easton

The 'Indian pattern' grip reference is really interesting in its own right isn't it? - I haven't really researched those, but from the examples I've seen on trooper's swords I thought this was a design that didn't really come in until a bit later, so it's a useful dating point. It seems as if the Lord Willoughby d'Eresby is referring to the blade.. Given that those Barons seem to have mostly been civilians in the 19th century I wonder if this is comparable to the name 'Percy' for the other famous blade type - alluding to a medieval family of note?

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## Matt Easton

So, I have some news on this. Good news is that the number was wrong and is actually 8602, which correctly identifies it as a Toledo-bladed sword made in October 1857. The other good news is that it has a name recorded and it begins with an S - Samuel. The bad news, so far, is that I cannot find any G Samuel in Hart's, either regular army or militia/yeomanry, or in the India lists. There are three people with the surname Samuels/Samuells, but none of them have the initial G.  :Smilie:

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## Matt Easton

Some quick pics - it needs a clean, as it has old varnish covering most of the steel - of course that means the steel has been well protected though.
The blade is 36 inches by  1 1/4" and the hilt is relatively short, at 5 1/4". The guard is obviously of the '7th Hussars' type, but with a blank cartouche, and it features the so-called 'French' pommel cap without a backstrap.

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## Paul Evenden

So when are you putting it on your site  :Smilie:  and can i have first dibs  :Big Grin:  lol

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## Matt Easton

This one is a keeper  :Wink: 
Though I have a feeling it's going to be yet another sword in my collection that I cannot attribute to an original owner.
Oh I forgot to mention that the scabbard is leather with steel fittings, no wood.

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## Will Mathieson

Great news Matt. All leather scabbard suggests India. I'm sure you will succeed with finding the true original owner. I didn't bid high enough thinking with gbp, double the number to get Can $ then add the auctioneers 20% and 100gbp packing/shipping then at this end taxes on it. 
Lets hope your man has a great military career and attained high rank.

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## gordon byrne

> So, I have some news on this. Good news is that the number was wrong and is actually 8602, which correctly identifies it as a Toledo-bladed sword made in October 1857. The other good news is that it has a name recorded and it begins with an S - Samuel. The bad news, so far, is that I cannot find any G Samuel in Hart's, either regular army or militia/yeomanry, or in the India lists. There are three people with the surname Samuels/Samuells, but none of them have the initial G.


Hi Matt,

Good news on the proof record giving a name, any chance of seeing an image of the proof docket.

Gordon

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## Matt Easton

Certainly Gordon, here it is:

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## Matt Easton

The closest to Samuel I can find in the army lists are three Samuels/Samuells serving in India - at least two of them were brothers. The only one who was of the correct age to have purchased this sword, I think, was William Leycester Samuels/Samuells - he was with the Sirmoor Rifles and did, perhaps coincidentally, commission at the same time as this sword was made - October 1857. I can't see William Leycester going by the initial G though! Unless he had a secret nickname!
Another possibility of course is that G Samuel ordered this sword and then didn't actually commission for some reason, or served for such a short time that I can't see him on the army lists.
Another possibility is that G Samuel was not in the military. I found reference to a G Samuels Esq travelling out to India in the 1840s. Perhaps a civilian living in Bengal in 1857 might hastily order a special sword from Wilkinson?! Certainly civilians played prominent rolls as militia during the Mutiny and famously at the Siege of Lucknow. The more I think about the civilian possibility, the more plausible it seems, as this sword has essentially no military identification - an unusual hilt without a cypher, almost no etching on the blade, again with no cypher etc etc.

Best,
Matt

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## Matt Easton

I suppose for full obscurity and tangential thinking I could point out that Samuels is probably a Jewish family and many Jewish immigrants in Victorian Britain had non-English spellings of first names, relating to their place of emigration. William in a few language is spelled with a G - Guillaume for example  :Smilie:  But I fear this might be trying to force a square peg into a round hole. I must say though, the scabbard is rather like a Rifles officer's scabbard before they brought in the steel type.

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## Matt Easton

> Great news Matt.


Thanks Will. I went all out on this sword, as it's a type I really wanted, so I got the sword I wanted and any provenance I can find is just extra icing on the cake.

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## Richard Dellar

> Fascinating, thanks John. That's a cracking sword! I've never seen a blade quite like that before - like a cross between a Percy and a Toledo. Also interesting to note that it's 36 inches long, like mine. Very interesting that they changed the guard but kept the grip - promotion to Major perhaps?


Just out of interest, here is Lord Willoughby D'Eresbury and wife c. 1410

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## Richard Dellar

> Just out of interest, here is Lord Willoughby D'Eresbury and wife c. 1410


Oh, the image didnt attach ... Sorry no idea why

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## L. Braden

A civilian may be the answer, and the sword could have been used for fencing. A "G. Samuel" (or "Samuels") or "George Samuel" (or "Samuels") arrived in Bombay in 1870, evidently en route to Malaysia, and subsequently became curator and taxidermist of the Selangor Museum (ca. 1894-8). The other with the same name was evidently en route to the East Indies in 1842 and either "left at Aden" or was "left at Aden" (meaning unclear!), and I can find no further record of him.

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## Matt Easton

Thanks - yes I couldn't find any further record either. Thanks for looking though!

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## L. Braden

You're most welcome!
With diligence, I've discovered that G. Samuel was a missionary at Aden, and that "left at Aden" meant that he departed from Aden en route to India. What became of him thereafter I'll leave to others to discover, with this: the naturalist-clergyman, Rev. J. G. Wood, was a fencer and sword collector.

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## L. Braden

Now we discover that the missionary's first name was Jacob! So who was the G. Samuels "left at Aden"???

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## gordon byrne

> Certainly Gordon, here it is:


Hi Matt,

Thanks for the image, certainly doesn't give much away.

Gordon

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## Matt Easton

Indeed!
Though at least it has a surname and that matches with with initials on the blade. So all we can currently say is that in 1857 someone named G Samuel (or perhaps Samuels) ordered a highly unusual sword and scabbard for themselves from Wilkinson..

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## Matt Easton

So, having trawled every army list, including searching through all the militia, Rifles and yeomanry lists of the time, I cannot find a single candidate with the surname 'Samuel'. I then put aside the issue of the GS initials on the blade and wondered whether Samuel could be an outfitter, and low and behold I see that Robert's thread showing outfitters supplied by Wilkinson has a Samuel Bros of Ludgate Hill - in fact they still exist:
http://www.samuelbrothers.co.uk

So the GS might not have anything to do with the name Samuel. I strongly suspect that Samuel on the Wilkinson ledger must be the outfitters, who provided this sword for a client, who happened to have the initials GS.

Looking on OldSwords there are 13 swords marked to Samuel Bros - most of them later in period than mine. Of the Victorian examples, there are Rifles, Infantry and HAC officers' swords, so somewhat of a spread. I can't see any trend in them supplying one particular branch of service unfortunately.

So, I'm afraid that I'm back to the start. Someone in 1857 decided they wanted to buy a 36 inch Toledo blade of cavalry proportions, on a 7th Hussars style hilt, but without the 7th Hussars marking, in a Rifles style scabbard! Short of stumbling upon a photograph of an officer wearing it, I think I've reached a dead end, unless anyone else has any ideas?

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## L. Braden

George Swinton, Bengal (and subsequently Royal) Engineers. Qualified for the B.E. at Addiscombe, 1855; 2nd lt., 1855; 1st lt., 1858; capt., 1867; maj., 1872; retired as lt. col. & col., 1883.

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## gordon byrne

> George Swinton, Bengal (and subsequently Royal) Engineers. Qualified for the B.E. at Addiscombe, 1855; 2nd lt., 1855; 1st lt., 1858; capt., 1867; maj., 1872; retired as lt. col. & col., 1883.


You may well have found the man.

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## Matt Easton

Thanks, yes Swinton certainly seems a possible candidate. Though I do have other possibilities with the same initials. Is there a specific reason Swinton might be more likely? A photo might help clinch it.
Are we all agreed that "Samuel" must refer to the military outfitters?
Thanks for your help, 
Matt

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## John Hart

> Are we all agreed that "Samuel" must refer to the military outfitters?


I thought of Samuels outfitters when I saw your earlier post, but like you I was misled by the coincidence of the second initial on the sword.  It's a bit of a puzzle - the sword seems to me too individualistic to be the purchase of a junior officer on his first commission, even for India.  And while the initials fit, is this really the kind of thing an Engineer would be wearing?

John

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## Matt Easton

Looking just through the 1861 Indian Army List, I can see possibles:
George Swinton - Bengal Art
George Swiney - 6th European Inf
George Sullivan - Cawnpore Levy 80 Foot
George Sturrock - 11th Madras NI
George Strangeways - 71st Bengal NI
George Selby - Madras Artillery
George Saunders - Allahabad Levy (Bengal) surgeon
George Stewart - 1st Sikh Irregular Cavalry (though there is a photo of him wearing a 3-bar hilt - otherwise a good candidate)
George Stedman - 23rd Madras Light Infantry
George Smith - Assistant Surgeon, Madras, on furlough in 1861
George Smart - 21st Madras Native Infantry
George Sim - Bengal Engineers, Railway Dept
George Sandys - 6th Madras Light Cav

But this assumes that the sword was bought by an Indian-serving officer, which if it was ordered from Samuel Brothers in 1857 may not be the case - there are more possible candidates on Hart's who weren't serving in India. Equally this is only counting the officers with only GS as given initials, not including all those with middle initials.

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## Matt Easton

> I thought of Samuels outfitters when I saw your earlier post, but like you I was misled by the coincidence of the second initial on the sword.  It's a bit of a puzzle - the sword seems to me too individualistic to be the purchase of a junior officer on his first commission, even for India.  And while the initials fit, is this really the kind of thing an Engineer would be wearing?


The way I see, there are two things which may lean in the direction of Indian service - firstly the scabbard, which I just can't see being worn in Britain. It's not a Rifles scabbard, as the steel mounts are a different design - actually simpler than a standard leather Rifles scabbard and they had switched to steel scabbards generally by 1857 anyway. I can't see a Yeomanry outfit tolerating it either. And the second factor is that two of the other known examples of this hilt type are associated with Bengal - one bought by Hagart of the 7th Hussars while on service in Bengal (http://antiqueswordforum.com/viewtop...b417dbeae4e02e) and the other owned by an officer of Bengal Artillery.
But I agree, on the surface of it this sword seems a strange choice for an officer of Engineers. A 36 inch straight Toledo blade - to me that shouts cavalry, or horse artillery. But who knows! Officers could carry whatever they wanted in India and we know many officers had second swords for campaigning, from tulwars to old 1796 sabres.. through to Hodson's pig-sticking lance! Any officer in any service would likely be riding a horse most of the time and many Bengal officers found themselves attached to completely different regiments for periods of time between 1857-1859.
I would say that perhaps the flappy leather scabbard does indeed point in the direction of an officer on foot. I think pretty much all the non-regulation cavalry scabbards I have are either steel or wooden with leather covering. All the leather scabbards I have are for infantry officers' and Rifles swords.

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## Matt Easton

Oh, there is another factor which to me might suggest Indian service; it has a short hilt. I suppose there is always the remote possibility that this wasn't for a British officer at all - it could have been for an Indian officer. Swords for Indian officers often feature shorter hilts and photos definitely show Indian officers sometimes carrying slightly off-regulation swords, such as patent hilts and scroll hilts. Though maybe Samuel Bros being the outfitters might make an Indian officer unlikely. S was certainly a very common initial among Indian officers though - Singh!

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## Matt Easton



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## L. Braden

For G.S. without middle name(s), I found 9 for Bengal in 1858-9, all Georges - the most likely being Sim, Sinclair, Stewart, Swiney 2d, and Swinton. For Bombay, 1 - Smith. For Madras, 8 - most likely being Selby, Smart, Smith, and Stedman. And as noted, there are numerous ones in the British Army. I doubt that we'll ever solve this mystery unless a photo can be found.

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## L. Braden

P.S. The other Bengal Georges are Saunders and Strangways; the other Madras Georges are Sandys, Stevens, Stevenson, and Sturrock. All needles in a haystack!

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## L. Braden

P.P.S. Would a regular Indian officer special-order or even want a straight sword? I don't see any in the photo. Of course, straight-bladed swords were eventually imposed on the regulars by Regulation; but that was after the Mutiny period, when straight was gradually replacing curved.

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## gordon byrne

> The way I see, there are two things which may lean in the direction of Indian service - firstly the scabbard, which I just can't see being worn in Britain. It's not a Rifles scabbard, as the steel mounts are a different design - actually simpler than a standard leather Rifles scabbard and they had switched to steel scabbards generally by 1857 anyway. I can't see a Yeomanry outfit tolerating it either. And the second factor is that two of the other known examples of this hilt type are associated with Bengal - one bought by Hagart of the 7th Hussars while on service in Bengal (http://antiqueswordforum.com/viewtop...b417dbeae4e02e) and the other owned by an officer of Bengal Artillery.
> But I agree, on the surface of it this sword seems a strange choice for an officer of Engineers. A 36 inch straight Toledo blade - to me that shouts cavalry, or horse artillery. But who knows! Officers could carry whatever they wanted in India and we know many officers had second swords for campaigning, from tulwars to old 1796 sabres.. through to Hodson's pig-sticking lance! Any officer in any service would likely be riding a horse most of the time and many Bengal officers found themselves attached to completely different regiments for periods of time between 1857-1859.
> I would say that perhaps the flappy leather scabbard does indeed point in the direction of an officer on foot. I think pretty much all the non-regulation cavalry scabbards I have are either steel or wooden with leather covering. All the leather scabbards I have are for infantry officers' and Rifles swords.


Matt,

Purely on the subject of blade length, there was a sword sold to an officer of the Bengal Engineers before 1854 which had a 35 1/2" slightly curved blade (Scroll type hilt & regulation steel scabbard); there was another sword sold to an officer of the Bengal Engineers before 1854 which had a 34 1/2" straight blade (Light Cavalry hilt, 4 1/4" inch grip & wooden leather covered steel mounted scabbard); the officer in relation to this second sword, appears on the same page in one of the lists as George Swinton. A third
pre 1854 example has a 32 1/2" blade and Infantry hilt.

I realize your sword is later however, the point I make here is mainly the difference in blade lengths (and hilt types) within the one Corps, not loosing sight of the fact that many officers in India performed mounted duties and there physical size may also had some bearing on blade length.

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## Matt Easton

> P.P.S. Would a regular Indian officer special-order or even want a straight sword? I don't see any in the photo.


Certainly there was a preference for curved swords in India by the 19th century (though before the Islamic invasions the Indians primarily used straight swords, such as the khanda), but there are photos of Indian officers in Hodson's Horse and other Indian cavalry regiments occasionally carrying straight swords, including Indian farangi, which use straight German imported backsword blades. There were several popular types of straight Indian sword. The straight khanda is basically the emblem of the Sikhs.
However, I agree that the vast majority of Indian officers who are shown in 19th century photos with unusual swords seem to have chosen curved blades, if they weren't carrying a purely regimental sword.

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## Matt Easton

> I doubt that we'll ever solve this mystery unless a photo can be found.


I think that's probably correct - a photo would probably be the only way to clinch it and of course this particular sword and scabbard would be quite recognisable in a photo. I do think that the style of scabbard should help narrow down the options. I don't *think* that this scabbard would have been used by a cavalry officer - it isn't robust enough. Equally, Indian officers seem to have gone for wooden cored scabbards. This scabbard to me shouts infantry. Gordon or John, do either of you have a view on the scabbard? I would have thought either Rifles or Infantry.

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## Matt Easton

> Purely on the subject of blade length, there was a sword sold to an officer of the Bengal Engineers before 1854 which had a 35 1/2" slightly curved blade (Scroll type hilt & regulation steel scabbard); there was another sword sold to an officer of the Bengal Engineers before 1854 which had a 34 1/2" straight blade (Light Cavalry hilt, 4 1/4" inch grip & wooden leather covered steel mounted scabbard); the officer in relation to this second sword, appears on the same page in one of the lists as George Swinton. A third
> pre 1854 example has a 32 1/2" blade and Infantry hilt.


Thanks Gordon, very interesting. And yes quite, re. the mounted issue and physical stature. Incidentally I have two pre-1854 Wilkinson Bengal Engineer swords, both with regulation size blades, but both have non-standard infantry hilts. One is steel-hilted (as featured in the other recent thread) and the other has an unusually-shaped leather-covered grip. I also have a Royal Horse Artillery officer's sword with a quite large flat blade and wooden-lined scabbard. But yes, in India especially, and especially in the mid-Victorian period, there seems to have been a lot of variation. I think the scabbard of this sword might say the most about the branch of service.

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## L. Braden

We haven't even considered naval officers! As Matt implied, a common mistake is that a particular sword peculiar to a particular unit must necessarily have belonged to an officer of that unit, which is utterly false and hampers identification of that officer. Anyone who has read "Swordsmen of the British Empire" and its supplements knows this to be so; for we read of infantry and naval officers armed with cavalry swords, and there was a lieutenant of the 93rd Highlanders who was armed with a cutlass! So, even though officers were confined to regulation swords for ceremonial purposes, for combat purposes they were not. This needs to be emphasized once and for all. Finally, whoever ordered the peculiar sword in question evidently knew exactly what he wanted; and what he wanted obviously wasn't regulation of any sort.

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## Matt Easton

Indeed! I'd also add that this sword is not as 'pointy' as most Toledo style blades I've seen (I own two other examples of this blade type) - it's actually quite 'choppy' and somewhat akin to a Highland broadsword blade. The blade itself is almost devoid of any decoration, being almost completely plain, so it's quite possible this was a second 'service' sword; the officer in question having a regulation sword for parade and photos.

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## L. Braden

Since Samuel Bros are still in business, would they still have a record of who they ordered this sword for, or who they provided it to, at the time in question? If so, mystery solved!

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## Matt Easton

That's an interesting thought! I suspect they won't have such records, but I'll drop them an email - it's worth a try. Cheers.

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## Matt Easton

> I think that's probably correct - a photo would probably be the only way to clinch it and of course this particular sword and scabbard would be quite recognisable in a photo. I do think that the style of scabbard should help narrow down the options. I don't *think* that this scabbard would have been used by a cavalry officer - it isn't robust enough. Equally, Indian officers seem to have gone for wooden cored scabbards. This scabbard to me shouts infantry. Gordon or John, do either of you have a view on the scabbard? I would have thought either Rifles or Infantry.
> 
> Attachment 142534


I'm returning the the mystery of this sword.
A Toledo-bladed Wilkinson, bought in October 1857, probably from Samuel the outfitters, with the initials GS on the blade and a style of hilt associated with the 7th Hussars. But that scabbard surely isn't a cavalry officer's scabbard is it? All the cavalry sword scabbards I have ever had were either steel or wood and leather, not floppy leather with metal fittings. If you saw the scabbard alone, you'd think Infantry or Rifles wouldn't you? Perhaps with a Scottish connection?

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## Matt Easton

Did Highland officer's broadswords always have a ball at the bottom of the scabbard at this time?

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## Matt Easton

George Stuart White's sword... - 



Neither a claymore/broadsword nor the later form of Scottish field officer's sword it seems to me.

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## Matt Easton

This one is a bit sharper:



I don't think the holes in that hilt quite exactly match mine, but the style of hilt seems to be closer to my sword than to the scroll hilts normally seen on Scottish field officer's swords.

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## Mark Cain

FOs in the Gordons, Royal Scots, RS Fusiliers and KOSBs wore a unique hilt that featured the regimental crests in the center of a "spray" of thistles. The Gordon's version is pictured on page 131 of Robson's original text.

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## Matt Easton

Yes indeed - I'm not sure that is what is shown in White's photo above though - it appears to be quite blank on the front?

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## Mark Cain

FWIW, comparing the guard in the photo to my Gordon's FO sword and a photo of Will M's Royal Scots FO guard, I think it's the same animal.

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## Will Mathieson

Returning to the scabbard, I have a Wilkinson cavalry officers  sword (Onslow) with Russian pattern blade, Indian scabbard. The scabbard is all leather, no wood. 
It has some stiffness to it and a metal shoe. http://www.swordforum.com/forums/sho...ghlight=onslow

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## Matt Easton

Just for the heck of it, here is the unidentified Wilkinson next to an 1890s Scots Field Officer's sword:

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## Matt Easton

> Returning to the scabbard, I have a Wilkinson cavalry officers  sword (Onslow) with Russian pattern blade, Indian scabbard. The scabbard is all leather, no wood.


Interesting! But does it have fittings to be worn from slings, or is it for a Sam Browne frog?

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## Will Mathieson

Pictures at end of post. Appears to be worn with the Sam Browne frog.

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## Matt Easton

To document these hilts for future researchers - mine, of unknown attribution, dated to 1857:




> 


The NAM example for an officer of the Bengal Artillery, dated to 1859 (the hilt described as '7th Hussars pattern' in the record):



http://www.nam.ac.uk/online-collecti...c=1985-02-80-1

Hagart of the 7th Hussars' sword purchased from Wilkinson in 1857:



http://antiqueswordforum.com/viewtopic.php?p=1478

Finally, Robson pictures a similar (identical?) hilt sold in 1863 to Kempson of the 1st Royal Dragoons.

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## Matt Easton

George Moulas Slaughter was an assistant surgeon with the 7th Hussars... Did assistant surgeons buy large swords??

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## Matt Easton

Hmmm:

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## Matt Easton

If he knew he was shipping out to India (to arrive in Feb 1858, I guess he must have left about 2 or 3 months earlier?), a purchase of a 7th Hussars style hilted sword in October 1857 might actually fit...

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## Matt Easton



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## Max C.

> George Moulas Slaughter was an assistant surgeon with the 7th Hussars... Did assistant surgeons buy large swords??


I guess they knew first hand the damage they could do!

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## Al Massey

Ah, the old army of the Raj- can't see those old pics without thinking of Sir Noel Coward:
".....Whatever became of old Shelley?
 Is it true that young Briggs was cashiered
 For riding quite nude on a push-bike through Delhi
 The day the new Viceroy appeared?
 Have you had any word
 Of that bloke in the 'Third',
 Was it Southerby, Sedgwick or Sim?
 They had him thrown out of the club in Bombay
 For, apart from his mess bill exceeding his pay,
 He took to pig-sticking in quite the wrong way.
 I wonder what happened to him!...

Whatever became of old Tucker?
 Have you heard any word of young Mills
 Who ruptured himself at the end of a chukka
 And had to be sent to the hills?
 They say that young Lees
 Had a dose of D.T.'s'
 And his hopes of promotion are slim.
 According to Stubbs, who's a bit of a louse,
 The silly young blighter went out on a 'souse',
 And took two old tarts into Government House.
 I wonder what happened to him!...

Whatever became of old Keeling?
 I hear that he got back from France
 And frightened three nuns in a train in Darjeeling
 By stripping and waving his lance!
 D'you remember Munroe,
 In the P.A.V.O?
 He was tallish and mentally dim.
 The talk of heredity can't be quite true,
 He was dropped on his head by his ayah at two,
 I presume that by now he'll have reached G.H.Q.
 I'm sure that's what happened to him!..."

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## Matt Easton

A tale of two Toledos... The top one made in 1856 for a Grenadier Guards officer (re-hilted between 1897 and 1901), the one below the 1857 example of this thread. I thought it would be interesting for people to see the two different sizes generally made for infantry vs cavalry (though an officer could basically order whatever size they wanted). The Guards blade is 32 1/2 by 1 1/8 inches, the larger one is 36 by 1 1/4 inches.



And alongside a couple of other Wilkinsons - top a standard 1845 type blade with a patent solid hilt, dating to the 1860s, below that an epee-type 'rapier' blade for the commanding officer of the Scots Guards from 1875:

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## Matt Easton

> Ah, the old army of the Raj- can't see those old pics without thinking of Sir Noel Coward:


Hah, nice. I've not seen/heard that before.

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## gordon byrne

> A tale of two Toledos... The top one made in 1856 for a Grenadier Guards officer (re-hilted between 1897 and 1901), the one below the 1857 example of this thread. I thought it would be interesting for people to see the two different sizes generally made for infantry vs cavalry (though an officer could basically order whatever size they wanted). The Guards blade is 32 1/2 by 1 1/8 inches, the larger one is 36 by 1 1/4 inches.
> 
> 
> 
> And alongside a couple of other Wilkinsons - top a standard 1845 type blade with a patent solid hilt, dating to the 1860s, below that an epee-type 'rapier' blade for the commanding officer of the Scots Guards from 1875:


Hi Matt,

Interesting very interesting display indeed! May I ask the proof number of your Guards sword, and how it was described on the proof docket?

Gordon

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## Matt Easton

Hi Gordon - here is the entry for that one (7127):

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## Matt Easton

Or maybe you meant the Scots Guards one? That is below ("Dress Scots Fusilier Guards Sword with Straight Triangular 3 Flutes Rapier Blade" for Lt-Col. H. H. D. Stracey):

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## Matt Easton

Stracey was a keen fencer incidentally and I have an original print of him in his fencing gear:

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## gordon byrne

What do you make of the spelling of the name on the side of the docket?

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## Matt Easton

Lt Colonel Montresor served in the Crimean War from 29th December 1854 and was present at the Siege and fall of Sebastopol, being awarded the Crimea Medal with clasp, 5th class of the Medjidie, and the Turkish Medal.

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## Mark Cain

Matt, I find it interesting that your rapier-bladed Wilkinson is numbered. I have a similar sword by Wilkinson -- though diamond-shaped in the cross section -- but there's no number to be found on it. The owner, Captain Stephen Ram of the Scots Fusilier Guards, earned his commission in 1859, long after Wilkinson started to number their blades. 

I had assumed that Wilkinson didn't bother to number the rapiers, even though the Henry Wilkinson name and Pall Mall, London address are rendered in an attractive copperplate-like font in the fullers. I'll have to see if Ram had older relatives in the army; perhaps it was a blade made before Wilkinson started numbering and later passed down to Ram when his was commissioned.

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## Matt Easton

I suppose if it is not numbered then it might not have been proved and instead classed as a court sword - they did not number their court or masonic dress swords after all.

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## Matt Easton

> George Moulas Slaughter was an assistant surgeon with the 7th Hussars.


After lots of digging around, I think that Slaughter was quite likely the purchaser of my sword. Unfortunately I haven't been able to find a photo of him in uniform (only civilian clothes). If anybody has any leads on that front, it would be great.

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