# Communities > Modern-era Swords and Collecting Community > Modern Production Katanas >  Hanwei Raptor : U-no-Kubi Zukuri

## M.K. Ridgeway

*Hanwei Raptor Series :*
*U-no-kubi Zukuri Katana*

*Review by Marc Kaden Ridgeway------------- 8 April 2009* 









 Hanwei recently released the Raptor series, and I knew I had to get one , because I am a fan of U-no-kubi zukuri, and these mark Hanwei's first real departure from the shinogi zukuri sugata.

 Historically, u-no-kubi zukuri is based on cut down pole arms. Usually seen on short swords, naginata were cut down to make wakizashi, and known as naginata naoshi. Today, there is much confusion , even among knowlegable people as to what exactly is naginata naoshi, unokubi , and kanmuri otoshi.  

 Basically a unokubi is a combination sword. The blade starts off as shinogi zukuri, and about 1/3 of the way transforms into the recessed shinogi ji form that is definitive of shobu zukuri, then, at the mune kado, transforms back into shinogi zukuri. 

 The slender mune , and swelling at the kissaki give it the name... which mean commorant's neck, because the sword resembles the shape of that bird.



 When Marc from WSS informed me that they were availiable for preorder, I reserved one right away. These katana are very affordable , being sold by WSS and Sword Nation for about $240.

 UPS handled shipping very quickly, and the sword  arrived within 24 hours of shipment.  The sword ws well packaged in a styrofoam box within a box. No cleaning kit was included.

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## M.K. Ridgeway

*Specifications*

Nagasa-------- 28.5 in
Tsuka-----------13 in with fittings
Nakago---------12 in
Motohaba-------1.25 in
Sakihaba--------1.0  in
Motokasane-----6.5mm
POB----------------4.25 in from tsuba
Sori-----------------.7 in
Steel----------------5160 through hardened












*Aesthetics*

Sugata is u-no-kubi zukuri with chu-kissaki. The yokote is geometric. 

 The polish is a dull satin, except for the burnished shinogi ji.  It shoild also be noted that the polish  has waves, ripples and dips in the surface. This Raptor is not to the same level of polish of any other Hanwei katana I've owned.

 The Tsuka-ho is panelled in white samegawa and wrapped is katate maki stlye with black suede ito. The menuki are gold colored feathers.  

 The fittings all have a bird of prey theme, and the tsuba is quite attractive, in fact , its one of my favorite things about this sword.    

 The saya is stone finished in black matte , with black sageo.

 My biggest complaint about the aesthetics is the way the mune   "humps" at the kissaki... I've just never seen anything quite like it.

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## M.K. Ridgeway

*Construction: Fit & Finish*

Everything on the Raptor is solid and tight.  The 13 inch tsuka has a full 12 inches of steel in it. The fittings are all tiight, the tsuba is peened to prevent lateral play.  The habaki is well fit.

 The tsuka is also fitted well, without the use of shims. A couple of taps unseats it from its snug seat, and then it slides of easily.

 The sword fits securely in the saya , and does not rattle.

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## M.K. Ridgeway

*Handling Characteristics*

 The Raptor is nimble and fast. With 12 inches of steel in the 13 inch tsuka, and the strongly relieved shinogi ji, the feel belies the 2.7 lb. weight.

 The sword feels light... almost insubstantial.   

The balance point is about 4.2 inches from the tsuba.

 Normally I dislike longer tsuka , but do not notice on the Raptor.

 My biggest complaint is the tsuka shaping, or lack thereof.

 The Raptor seems to be a throwback to the old days of Hanwei katana with axe-handle tsuka. The tsuka is THICK, and not at all tapered or waisted.










*Cutting*

 This was the most important aspect of the review for me, as the Raptor is being marketed as a tough cutter.  SO I put it through its paces. 

 I started out with small bamboo and worked up. I believe I found the Raptors limit, at least in my hands, at about 4 -4.5 inch diameter bamboo stalks.   Having found this limit , I proceeded to make some UGLY cuts (on purpose I SWEAR) that would have set many blades.  The Raptor came out unscathed, and still handled both wet and dry bottles after the bamboo.

 I'm pretty impressed with the toughness and resilence of the Raptor.

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## M.K. Ridgeway

*The Good , The Bad & The Ugly*

 Here in my critical section I like to point out the flaws, or whatever I just don't like.  In this case, the sword is mostly damn fine for the price with just a few points I disliked , like the tsuka shaping, the end knot, the wavy polish and the mune at the kissaki.

*Pros* 
 Tough heat treat Well Built Good Cutter Superb handlingAttractive tsubaGeometric Yokote

*Cons*
  "Axe-handle " tsuka No hamon wavy polish strange (to me) mune-kado ( koshinogi saki) 

Now for sake of comparison , I'm going to show a couple of comparison photos with a similar sugata sword, the Oni Forge Ryu , which is roughly twice the price.  Even though the Ryu is a much more massive sword , you can see the Raptors much beefier tsuka.








*Conclusion*

 Hanwei developed and marketed this as an affordable and durable cutter , and I think they hit the mark. From the observations I've made, this is a light and nimble but tough as nails sword, that your really won't have to be fearful of. It cuts as well as the Tori, with a tougher edge and more resilent blade, and beats the PK hands down.
  At the price WWS and Sword Nation have offered them at, this is a fine cutter , and a good match for other through hardened cutters on the market.
 While not much makes it outshine the alternatives like a musha class DF, it is a least equal , and small details can make or break the choice as to how to go.

 I would reccomend this sword as a solid cutter , and well made piece.

 Thanks for reading.

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## Seth Borland

im sure its a good cutter and all but... eh... that style of blade is a huge turn off as far as aesthetics go. reminds me a lot of Cold Steel's dragonfly katana, which in turn looked like an anime blade design over anything else. is this thing supposed to be double edged or something? if so, how does the other edge cut?

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## M.K. Ridgeway

> im sure its a good cutter and all but... eh... that style of blade is a huge turn off as far as aesthetics go. reminds me a lot of Cold Steel's dragonfly katana, which in turn looked like an anime blade design over anything else. is this thing supposed to be double edged or something? if so, how does the other edge cut?


The style of blade is u-no-kubi zukuri , and is most assuredly NOT anime based.

 As stated in the review contant , this style is based historically on cut down naginata.  The sword is not double edged it simply has a section of high shinogi and relieved shinogi-ji like a shobu zukuri. 

I do not care for anime , personally.

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## B. Stamper

As always M.K. thank you for your time, wonderful attention to detail and magnificent photos. I had my eye out for one of these but as always your reviews have a way putting the sword in my hand! Anyway with that said I think Ill save my money this time. 
Thank you Mr. Ridgeway. :Cool:

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## Mats Gustavsson

Wow thats a fantastic review, wish i could take pictures like that.
Always nice to have a good look on new swords, but I cant really get on with the kissaki. Shouldnt the mune line be even from the habaki to the point of the kissaki?? Or is it just the angels in the pics that trick my eye?

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## M.K. Ridgeway

No, the angles aren't tricking your eye... its weird.

Well , to be fair to Hanwei, and to the sword... the mune there at the kissaki may be normal.

To be honest, I've never seen any period u-no-kubi blades hands on....

All I have seen is modern interpretations, and most of them are actually kanmuri otoshi...

Maybe someone like Mr. Larman can elaborate.

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## Keith Larman

The "planes" of the mune are traditionally continuous right through the very point. If I had one the first thing I'd do is grind that thing down personally...

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## Keith Larman

Oh, forgot on one other thing. The high shinogi (meaning the blade is thickest at the shinogi and tapers to the mune) just means the blade is diamond shaped in that region. The back of unokubi was not sharpened nor does it even come close to having an edge. It wasn't to create another edge but it was part of the overall mass distribution and design.

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## Keith Larman

FWIW I just got a call from Bugei asking me to come down to QC a bunch of swords. I'm going down on Monday and I asked them to put a raptor or two aside for me to look at (just so they don't sell them all and ship them before I get there). I'll take my camera and see what I see while I'm there. 

They also said they had been given misleading info on the contractual pricing structure guidelines for these initially. So they have dropped their price to $239 and issued refunds to all their customers who preordered them at the higher price. 

Anyway, hopefully they'll hold onto one of each so I can shoot a few photos on Monday. I'll toss them up fwiw if I can get shots. I'm curious if that odd shaping is consistent on all the unokubi zukuri raptors.

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## M.K. Ridgeway

> FWIW I just got a call from Bugei asking me to come down to QC a bunch of swords. I'm going down on Monday and I asked them to put a raptor or two aside for me to look at (just so they don't sell them all and ship them before I get there). I'll take my camera and see what I see while I'm there. 
> 
> They also said they had been given misleading info on the contractual pricing structure guidelines for these initially. So they have dropped their price to $239 and issued refunds to all their customers who preordered them at the higher price. 
> 
> Anyway, hopefully they'll hold onto one of each so I can shoot a few photos on Monday. I'll toss them up fwiw if I can get shots. I'm curious if that odd shaping is consistent on all the unokubi zukuri raptors.


 That sounds great  Keith , thanks... I'm a bit curious about that myself... it is just the  oddest thing I have ever seen....

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## D J Mahoney

Thanks for the great review Marc. As usual the pictures are great. Very informative. I look forward to hearing about the others as they go out.

Debbie

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## Jeff Ellis

> No, the angles aren't tricking your eye... its weird.
> 
> Well , to be fair to Hanwei, and to the sword... the mune there at the kissaki may be normal.
> 
> To be honest, I've never seen any period u-no-kubi blades hands on....
> 
> All I have seen is modern interpretations, and most of them are actually kanmuri otoshi...
> 
> Maybe someone like Mr. Larman can elaborate.


Marc, have you seen this one? http://www.ricecracker.com/japanese_...katana/sk4.htm I've never seen that nub either... Mr Williams might be able to explain it on the Bugei forum as he had his hands in this.

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## M.K. Ridgeway

Thank you Debbie   :Smilie: 

Wow Jeff... thanks for the link... that is one stunning sword.

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## Jessie F.

VERY nice review and beautifully sharp and clear photos!  :Big Grin: 

Personally, I kinda like the design on it, but that is solely personal taste. Well... actually I might just find it interesting/neat, more then actually liking it. I do have a question though: Does it make it "odd" or anything, to perform noto with it?

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## Seth Borland

well, i guess i can see it as a cut-down naginata... but as a sword... it just doesnt look normal to me....

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## Benjamin Chin

i read up on this katana and i realised it uses a 5160 carbon steel.what is the difference between the conventional used of 1065?  :Big Grin: 

_p.s. i love picture intensive posts!!_

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## Ben Bouchard

Great review! I was very impressed with the Raptor at SHOT, but I'm no expert. Mr. Williams and I had a nice conversation about them, though, and he said he's been using one for all of his pig cutting, so I guess they can take a real beating! 

I've always been drawn to the naginata-naoshi style, and would love to see a production nagamaki more than anything else, so for me the aesthetics thing is no biggie.

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## Keith Larman

5160 is a steel widely used for swords that are through hardened. It ain't so good for getting a hamon, but the stuff is really tough when properly through hardened. Normally a Japanese sword will have a hamon and as such it isn't widely used because it won't form a nice hamon. But it is a very tough, durable steel. If I remember correctly that's the steel Gus Trim used for the asa sword works katana and his swords in general (correct me if I'm wrong). 

There is an old article on the old Highlander's sword guide (remember that?) here: http://www.angelic.org/highlander/me...gy/grades.html

fwiw. 

I've asked Bugei to hold one of each model out of the queue for me when I go there Monday Morning. So some people are going to be delayed a day or so getting their swords. But I'm going to take a few photos of each and I wanted to see them anyway for my own edification. 

These are super inexpensive swords. Durable and tough is the idea so I wouldn't be looking for idealized grace and elegance. But if they did them right... Hard to go wrong at a price of 239. I might have to buy one just to break it apart and rework it. So, who wants to spend $1500 on a remounted $239 sword? Hmmm, maybe not my best idea...  :Wink:

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## Tom Lim

My cousin bought one online and recieved it yesterday. He bought the Shinogi zukuri model and invitied me down to take a look and give my impressions.

To be honest, I wasn't expecting much for a sword that's price point is lower than 250 bones. To my surprise it didn't feel at all bad in the hands and it was really screaming to cut someting.

Cousin asked where the hamon was and I told him that with 5160, there was no way to get one. Problem with the handle is that the diamonds are poorly shaped, and there is a little click at the tsuba when I moved the swordl

I personally did not like the koshirae, but did cut some bamboo in the garden and the blade did kick some ass.

For a price point where my cousin stands, it is a great peice to have when you're married and have a kid. Won't get in trouble with the wife. At least his anyway.

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## Jerry G.

Thanks again for an excellent review, Marc.  had these been available a year ago, I wouldn't have bought and gone through all the trouble to remount my 30" 9260 from Cheness.  It's nice to see that the Raptors range up to a 29" nagasa and can take a lickin'.  Is the suede _real_ leather or faux?

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## Jeff Ellis

> Cousin asked where the hamon was and I told him that with 5160, there was no way to get one..


Tom, 5160 is an oil hardening steel, and I was told by a few guys on here that quenching in oil can get you a hamon, but occasionally causes a reverse curve toa blade for some reason. I can show you at least one 5160 blade with a hamon, as well (http://www.arscives.com/bladesign/chokuto.review.htm). It's possible, and there is a talented man who has done the Bainite/martensite thing using 5160, so it can be done, it's just tricky, and as Keith said, it's not always pretty. 

The question is, are they doing pearlite, or bainite?

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## Tom Lim

> Tom, 5160 is an oil hardening steel, and I was told by a few guys on here that quenching in oil can get you a hamon, but occasionally causes a reverse curve toa blade for some reason. I can show you at least one 5160 blade with a hamon, as well (http://www.arscives.com/bladesign/chokuto.review.htm). It's possible, and there is a talented man who has done the Howard Clark style Bainite/martensite using 5160, so it can be done, it's just tricky. 
> 
> The question is, are they doing pearlite, or bainite?


Well, the 5160 peices that I have handled and owned were all through hardened, and there were no hamon, but thanks for the pic, it's interesting stuff.

Back to my cousin real quick, he told me today that he regretted getting the peice because he really wanted an ADC. I told him that having this peice wouldn't stop him from getting one. He just has to keep his priorities in order and save his money.

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## J. Pitts

The chokuto  showed the hamon after the oxides were removed as stated on Antonio's site, but I have the sword here and let me tell ya, it's very hard to spot.  Gotta be at a certain angle and it is barely and I mean to the point you think your eyes are playing tricks on you.  Not a hamon friendly steel; for the most part.

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## les yeich

good review. i'd be more interested in the shinogi zukuri blade, although the measurements for the uno kubi are spot on for me. i'm really not a fan of thick, clumsy tsuka... not sure if these are up my alley or not.

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## Jeff Ellis

> good review. i'd be more interested in the shinogi zukuri blade, although the measurements for the uno kubi are spot on for me. i'm really not a fan of thick, clumsy tsuka... not sure if these are up my alley or not.


Les, I'm wondering if they're all sporting the axe handles?

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## Keith Larman

The three raptors I saw all had relatively straight tsuka. But I didn't find them oversized. Yes, they're on the larger end of the scale of sizes I've experienced and without subtle tapers they're not seriously refined, but they're well shaped and fit my hands just fine. 

I'd rather have them slightly oversized (hence easily reshaped and rewrapped) than stressed, poorly fit and pre-cracked out of the box. But then again on this forum people will argue about whether a sword has a cosmetic yokote ignoring that the same blade has at best only a passing caricature-esque resemblance to a japanese sword... With mounts that are totally unacceptable.

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## les yeich

> Les, I'm wondering if they're all sporting the axe handles?


that's pretty much what keith says in his thread. actually upon closer internet inspection i think the shobu would be most to my taste, but this is one of those pieces i wouldn't be able to justify unless i just had the money burning a hole in my pocket. they definitely seem to be worth the scratch, i'm just not so sure they would have a place in my collection.

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## Jeff Ellis

> The three raptors I saw all had relatively straight tsuka. But I didn't find them oversized. Yes, they're on the larger end of the scale of sizes I've experienced and without subtle tapers they're not seriously refined, but they're well shaped and fit my hands just fine. 
> 
> I'd rather have them slightly oversized (hence easily reshaped and rewrapped) than stressed, poorly fit and pre-cracked out of the box. But then again on this forum people will argue about whether a sword has a cosmetic yokote ignoring that the same blade has at best only a passing caricature-esque resemblance to a japanese sword... With mounts that are totally unacceptable.


In your feelings, they'd have less of a tendency to pop out of proper grip, then? I find that a flatter mune edge of a tsuka can feel better in my hand and gives me more control.

Also, did that kissaki feature exist on the unokubi you saw?

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## Keith Larman

> In your feelings, they'd have less of a tendency to pop out of proper grip, then? I find that a flatter mune edge of a tsuka can feel better in my hand and gives me more control.
> 
> Also, did that kissaki feature exist on the unokubi you saw?


I'm not sure what you're saying here. Held properly no sword should "pop out of your grip". And unless the tsuka is totally malformed (assymmetrical) it should be trivial to know where the edge is. Don't you think you're overstating this a bit? 

There are two things to think about here. One is what people are used to. The other is what is traditional, and lots of things have precedent, even blocky, straight, boring tsuka.  :Wink:  In the prior case I frequently do swords for iai practitioners. Did one for a very highly ranked practitioner recently. He's only used Japanese made swords for his entire training life. For him the kurigata placement was such that his hand is completely contorted and shoved into what looks to me like a totally uncomfortable position. Why? Well, every sword he's had to date has been one that he's bought already built. And they were all good Japanese work. And great for the 5 foot 2 inch tall fellas that used them with their proportionally small hands. Their hands fit in that space between the koiguchi and the kurigata. Tightly, perhaps, but my wife's hand fit "perfectly" (according to how I was trained to measure for it) for instance (and she's 5'1" tall). 

Okay, so this sensei squeezing his bigger, meaty hands into this smaller space for 3 decades or so of traditional training. This "feels" right to him. And it is right because that's how he was trained. And I had no problem building him a saya similarly dimensioned. And it hurts my hands just to watch him hold it, but whatever. Is it "right"? 

In a sense I'd say "no", it isn't correct. but it feels right to him and it is what he's used to. And quite frankly in the larger scheme of things it is quite trivial. Who cares? He adjusted because all formal sword training has a hell of a lot more going on that just some tiny details about the sword. You can adjust to a sword that's a hair too long, too short, too heavy, too light. Learning to be a good swordsman is about everything else... 

I see similar things with many in iai. Tsuka with fuchi that are under 39mm. Most western folk eventually find that the 41-42mm fuchi are a bit more comfortable once they get used to it because they've long been using smaller tsuka originally designed for smaller hands. The tsuka on the raptors are larger. And they did have a little taper mune to edge. Not a lot. But they fit larger hands a bit better IMHO. Whether any individual will think it feels right is another issue entirely. But it doesn't make it right or wrong. Just what it is. 

Anyway, the reason for this long tangent is that I think these things get overstated. Or overthought. Production swords are just that - production swords. As such they're going to be "one size fits all" by necessity. And of course if it isn't right for what you want, that's cool, that's not the sword for you. I just find the discussions about how some small aspect is "better" to be somewhat odd outside the larger context of everything else that makes a decent tsuka. We start talking about really subtle details of shaping on a $239 sword. You've got to be kidding...  When I make a tsuka for someone by the time I've charged them for the samekawa, the wood, and the basic shaping of the core I'm already past the entire cost of this sword. The last samekawa I bought for a sword cost more than half the price of this entire sword!. The last sword I polished and mounted ended up costing enough to buy 46 raptors (not counting shipping or tax). 

So that said they're basic tsuka that meet the most important criteria in my mind: They're tight. They're flush. They're well formed. The ito matched up correctly with the level of the fittings. The wrap was reasonably tight and correctly alternated. Compare that with most of the production swords in this same price segment. Poorly wrapped. Huge gaps. Rattling fittings. Cracked cores. To quote Nader -- unsafe at any speed. 

If you want I could review them comparing them to top notch work. It would take me a week to write it all down. But then again, they ain't $11,000 swords now are they?

Anyway, I do understand that the lack of that detail may make the sword unacceptable to some users. Experienced users may in fact find a lot of reasons to stick with something a bit more expensive. Of course. But it's not really targeted at that segment either. The lack of hamon, hada, etc. The "uber performance steel" angle. The simple mounting. What it makes is for an inexpensive sword that will cut well and ideally survive the average guy who buys swords like this. I find them to be a vast improvement over what has been on the market up to this point, hence me taking the time to do the review in the first place. But I would caution that they are what they are, nothing more, nothing less. I'd just keep that aspect in mind.

On the unokubi -- yes the one I saw had the same odd shaping on the mune near the tip. I wrote about it in my review. It does look odd and I don't quite get why they did it. But once I stopped worrying about it and tried drawing/resheathing the sword I had no problem with it. Oddly enough having that there provided some serious feedback about when the kissaki was almost clear for noto. Felt a bit funny, but I found no real drawback to it. Not my cup of tea either, but hey, it didn't seem to detract. 

If I had one I'd spend a few minutes on a grinder and take care of that right anyaway...  :Wink:

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## Jeff Ellis

> I'm not sure what you're saying here. Held properly no sword should "pop out of your grip". And unless the tsuka is totally malformed (assymmetrical) it should be trivial to know where the edge is. Don't you think you're overstating this a bit?


Not overstating, it was just a terrible description of what I was saying. Hanwei's thinner tsuka seem to slip off the heel of my hand easier because they're almost a flattened football shape in cross section (without the sharp points). I was wondering if the thicker tsuka were similar in cross section or if they were more egg shaped? 

It could have been just bad grip on my part, which I'm totally open to accepting.


Also, I do plan on getting one for the time being, as it's a great deal and I need some form of entry level cutter

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## Tom Lim

Jeff, I think you may be falling victim to overthinking the peice again. This is after all just an entry level cutter aimed to be affordable, durable and functional. Best thing to do Jeff would be to get one and figure it out. Then you will basically answer your own questions. Good beater fir the money, but the sword isn't for me. I've moved on.

I understand now why Keith tries to hold back his own personal opinions on peices like the Raptors and the like. We who collect swords and study its various arts look for different things and we like different things. Can't say it any plainer than that.

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## Keith Larman

Honestly, Jeff, I'm really not sure what you're talking about. Maybe that's something that needs to be explained in person. There is a photo up on bugei's pages on the raptors in the detail section on one of the swords that shows the tsuka fairly well. Don't know if it will answer your question. 

But at the end of the day... it is a $239 cutter. It ain't gonna be a work of art and it ain't gonna be perfect. But at that price it's pretty darned good. But it still a $239 sword... I wouldn't be expecting strawberries dipped in chocolate on your pillow along with this.

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## J Land

Thank you, Mr. Ridgeway.  I bought one based on your review and I could not be more pleased. In analyzing it with my amateur eyes, it appears tight and very well put together. Kult of Athena provided super service and a great deal.

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## B Dreier

I want to thank Mr. Larman for histhoughts and opinions as I do agree that it maybe has nt been said in that way but the facts are the same in that these are lower end CHinese produced swords and folks think that they are going to come out as coerrect as a Japanese made sword. Even in that I have seen many not to good Japanese made swords that cost $7,000, so what do we really expect in a lower cost CHinese made sword. It can be hit or miss as well from forges as a box of 10 might only have 2 that are pretty nice but lets not kid ourselves even the nicest and higher end Chinese swords still wont be a traditional hand made Japanese sword we want it to be.

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## Tom Lim

> I want to thank Mr. Larman for histhoughts and opinions as I do agree that it maybe has nt been said in that way but the facts are the same in that these are lower end CHinese produced swords and folks think that they are going to come out as coerrect as a Japanese made sword. Even in that I have seen many not to good Japanese made swords that cost $7,000, so what do we really expect in a lower cost CHinese made sword. It can be hit or miss as well from forges as a box of 10 might only have 2 that are pretty nice but lets not kid ourselves even the nicest and higher end Chinese swords still wont be a traditional hand made Japanese sword we want it to be.



Hi Brian, you brought up an interesting point here about Chinese made katana. I do not buy Chinese peices any more but do you think that people who buy production peices are expecting too much bang for their buck? Granted for this thread we are speaking about a through hardened blade that is meant to be more or less a beater than anything else. I remember thinking to myself after finding out what the price was going to be to not really hold my breath in anticipation. I don't know. Perhaps my thinking and reasoning is skewed because of my personal collection and the fact that I no longer feel the need to have a beater near by.

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## ercansarbat

This is a good point, after all, this is not a $10.000 Blade  :Smilie: 

I got mine yesterday and I think it is good quality for that money. Tsuka did not feel big, actually I liked it, gave me a good grip. I think his on both sides are not geometrically identical. I did not like the shape of the kissaki but it did not give any problem doing Noto. Tsuka ito (or gawa) looks tight and good. Saya is tight and makes no sound. No cracking or moving parts on the sword. I am happy with it still kissaki geometry is a bit turn of and blade could be sharpened better.

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## Tom Lim

Exactly the point. You can't expect all the bells and wistles if all you have in the peice is a bit over two hundred dollars.

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## M.K. Ridgeway

I'm not sure if this latest turn in the thread is in response to my review or not.

 At any rate just let me say that I know perfectly well what the sword is... and as I stated, I think Hanwei hit the mark with it.

 The issues I pointed out weren't pointed out because I expected a Muramasa or Kiyomaro for $250...they were pointed out in the interest of an honest review

 The tsuka is thick... not overly so... but thick..  I make this statement because I have owned production katana from almost every source out there , including a handful from Hanwei, and the Raptor's tsuka is the thickest I've ever encountered. I've also had a couple of customs, a shinshinto mumei , and a shinshinto (probably) mounted as shingunto... 

 Not overly so, as I said but still hefty...

 So while this sword certainly represents sacrifices to meet its price  it is still a decent little beater...  and I make all my comparisions in the review with other production katana in mind,  I'm not using prize winning  nihonto as a basis of comparison .

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## ercansarbat

> I'm not sure if this latest turn in the thread is in response to my review or not.
> 
>  At any rate just let me say that I know perfectly well what the sword is... and as I stated, I think Hanwei hit the mark with it.
> 
>  The issues I pointed out weren't pointed out because I expected a Muramasa or Kiyomaro for $250...they were pointed out in the interest of an honest review
> 
>  The tsuka is thick... not overly so... but thick..  I make this statement because I have owned production katana from almost every source out there , including a handful from Hanwei, and the Raptor's tsuka is the thickest I've ever encountered. I've also had a couple of customs, a shinshinto mumei , and a shinshinto (probably) mounted as shingunto... 
> 
>  Not overly so, as I said but still hefty...
> ...


I agree totally.

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## Roy Camello

From the pictures and results of the tests from this sword. I WAN ONE!!! haha gonna save up again, this would be a nice piece for my collection.

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## Aaron Justice

> The tsuka is thick... not overly so... but thick..  I make this statement because I have owned production katana from almost every source out there , including a handful from Hanwei, and the Raptor's tsuka is the thickest I've ever encountered. I've also had a couple of customs, a shinshinto mumei , and a shinshinto (probably) mounted as shingunto...


I think it's from having an oversized kashira sometimes. The Gorin Iaito I had had a 41mm fuchi, 39mm kashira. The practical plus is about 40 - 38. For me, a good feeling tsuka core is around 40 - 42 with a 35 - 36mm kashira. Many of the "axe handled" Chen blades are from having very straight tsuka with very large kashiras. Not all do, but some do.

The one thing that kind of bugs me about some Chen koshirae is the photo realism. The Momo No Saru, the Raptor, they tend to look like photographs rather than artistic designs, like a picture was fed into a machine and then stamped into steel. 

However, it looks like a solid deal and a hell of a beater blade.

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## tom geusz

Aaron,
I think what is bothering you about the 'realism' of the fittings is the perspective represented in the casting.
Early Japanese art was not very 'correct' in their representation of reality.More important characters tend to be drawn larger than other people around them.The woodblocks are stylized and flat.Rarely do you see a three quarter view of something.Usually it's straight on or in profile.Very two dimentional.
Remember they had no Greek influences in the 'vanishing point'.And no rediscovering of it in the Rennasance Period.(also no plague or Dark Ages.)
Japanese art however is responcible for the Art Nouveau movement.Also where do you think the Dutch discovered blue and white pottery and tile porcelene they became famous for?
They just added the windmills...

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## Ivan Kowalchuk

Great review!

Do you have a PPK (Practical Plus) to compare with? I've been supposed to buy the PPK, but after looking a little at the U-no-kubi Zukuri and Shobu Zukuri I've been tempted to buy one of them.

Judging from your own experience, which one would you prefer for cutting and handling, the PPK or one from the Raptor series?

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## M.K. Ridgeway

> Great review!
> 
> Do you have a PPK (Practical Plus) to compare with? I've been supposed to buy the PPK, but after looking a little at the U-no-kubi Zukuri and Shobu Zukuri I've been tempted to buy one of them.
> 
> Judging from your own experience, which one would you prefer for cutting and handling, the PPK or one from the Raptor series?


To me, the answer to your question is catagorically , it depends. Which PPK and for what purpose. I know you said cutting... but what kind of cutting? And what do you wanr out of a sword?

 The PPK is Differentially hardended with enhanced hamon. The Raptor is through hardened and has no hamon.

 A PPK classic is a bit tougher edgewise than a PPK elite. The elite performance geometries chip an awful lot.  So if you wanr a dedicated mat cutter a PPK Eite will be fine... but for backyard cuting with bottles and such... not so much,  i had a PK Elite that got buggered up badly by bottle mouths.  My Tori Elite chipped . I've seen a Shinto Elite chipped.

 The Raptor will be much tougher to handle targets that are more abusive than mats.

 thats my observations.

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## Ivan Kowalchuk

> To me, the answer to your question is catagorically , it depends. Which PPK and for what purpose. I know you said cutting... but what kind of cutting? And what do you wanr out of a sword?
> 
>  The PPK is Differentially hardended with enhanced hamon. The Raptor is through hardened and has no hamon.
> 
>  A PPK classic is a bit tougher edgewise than a PPK elite. The elite performance geometries chip an awful lot.  So if you wanr a dedicated mat cutter a PPK Eite will be fine... but for backyard cuting with bottles and such... not so much,  i had a PK Elite that got buggered up badly by bottle mouths.  My Tori Elite chipped . I've seen a Shinto Elite chipped.
> 
>  The Raptor will be much tougher to handle targets that are more abusive than mats.
> 
>  thats my observations.


I don't like the Elite's geometry, so I was thinking the PPK Classic, and my cutting is bottles and likewise.

Thanks for you input!

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## Ivan Kowalchuk

God dammit, I so like the U-no-kubi Zukuri's shape of the "hump" mune near the kissaki, but I do not like the "half" bohi.  :Mad:

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## Anders Backlund

I must say, I _really_ like that blade - all of it, exactly like it is. Then again, I always like those rare variants that look a bit unusual.  

I don't like the look on the tsuka, though. I mean, I know fairly little about katana but even I think it looks oversized...

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## Aaron Justice

They apparently have several new blades, a tanto, a wakizashi, a Nambochuko period katana, and a Kogarasu Maru. It almost makes me feel like they are outsourcing the blades because the Kogarasu Maru looks a lot like the Cold Steel / Oni Forge version. Straight tsuka and curved blades. The Dynasty Forge version has a straight blade and a curved tsuka, so it's not a Fred Chen direct I don't think. Hanwei definitely mounts them though.

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## M.K. Ridgeway

They also have a new series out... the "Dragons of the East"

 There is a new Unokubi...  a $1000 unokubi... with the same weird kissaki geometry... where on Earth did Hanwei get this idea?

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## Aaron Justice

> They also have a new series out... the "Dragons of the East"
> 
>  There is a new Unokubi...  a $1000 unokubi... with the same weird kissaki geometry... where on Earth did Hanwei get this idea?



Hmmm... that might go against the outsourcing thing if they are making folded versions of them as well, unless the it was from a Last Legend type brand or something. The bo hi stopping before the habaki was a Last legend thing, I rarely saw other places other than Iaito do it.

But that kashira, yeesh. I thought the koshirae looked great until I saw those claws sticking out.

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## Joo-Hwan Lee

> But that kashira, yeesh. I thought the koshirae looked great until I saw those claws sticking out.


From an on-line description:

"The kashira depicts a dragon claw also holding an agate pearl, *the pearl being set so that it is free to rotate within the claw*, yet another first for the forge."

It seems to me that they could have offered the sword at a lower price and attracted more customers without that completely unnecessary little touch.  But the tsuba is pretty neat and the wakizashi blade looks more promising though.

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## Timo Qvintus

Hey Joo, welcome back!  :Big Grin:

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## M.K. Ridgeway

> From an on-line description:
> 
> "The kashira depicts a dragon claw also holding an agate pearl, *the pearl being set so that it is free to rotate within the claw*, yet another first for the forge."
> 
> It seems to me that they could have offered the sword at a lower price and attracted more customers without that completely unnecessary little touch.  But the tsuba is pretty neat and the wakizashi blade looks more promising though.


Hey Buddy !!!

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## Joo-Hwan Lee

Hehe...  Hey amigos!   :Big Grin: 

The strange kissaki might be James Williams' contribution (who was, I think, largely responsible for the design of this particular series).  I thought his replies to questions about the "lip" were somewhat evasive, but he did seem to say that it's based on a historical example.  From the Bugei forum:




> This is a classical grind, and not Nagimaki naoshi. The kissaki of a sword is under enormous pressure when it strikes something hard. This particular shape makes for a very strong kissaki. Not everyone did this however the variety of shapes in ancient Japan is far greater than people realize. The purpose of these swords is to provide a very strong, tough, and durable cutting blade with classical proportions and shape along with good weight and balance.
> 
> [snip]
> 
> I do not have the original however I will see if I can get pictures etc. I have seen this shape however it has been a few years.


The discussion is here: http://www.swordforumbugei.com/Board...c.php?f=6&t=26

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## les yeich

make the historically uncommon common? interesting. not an approach i'm a big fan of. while i don't doubt that such a design *may* have occurred historically, the same can be said of a lot of blades most people laugh at, or that we don't even know existed, they were so rare. when will hanwei come out with a reverse blade? how about a chokuto? i wager a lot of people who buy the uno kubi are going to end up grinding off that... i guess we're calling it a lip? i don't mean to question james' statement at all, but the skeptic in me is definitely going to have to *see* the historical example before i give the design much credence. not that my opinion matters, hehe, but all the same.

edit:


> If it was based in some historical example, I'd love to add it to my mental collection of oddities. If on the other hand it was dreamed up in some back room by people that are trying to be innovative, in a craft that has largely already been played out, then say that instead. I am sorry if this comes off a bit course.


looks like adam more than eloquently put the question forth. all things considered, i'm of the mind that if the uno kubi has as strong a diamond section as it appears to, i'm not sure how much added strength the lip actually has. i've seen some *extreme* diamond sections, for example from howard clark, that didn't suffer in the kissaki from the resulting "missing" material in the shinogi ji. of course all this is irrelevant. it doesn't seem to effect performance in any way, and anyone who gets it can grind it off. *shrug*. at under $250 a little diy is reasonable. if it's all about james "admitting" to some evil intention to reinvent the sword, well, kind of seems like a pissing match i'm not willing to get into! james is unquestionably a huge contributor to our hobby, you know?

i'm as guilty as anybody of being overly nit-picky. now, on the $1k blade, on the other hand...

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## Timo Qvintus

Even if it is historically based doesn't mean it's necessarily a good idea. The very fact that James seems to be the only one to have seen an actual example means that the unokubi-with-a-lip zukuri would have been very rarely used and this generally translates as "it was a bad idea" because if it were an improvement over anything I'm sure it would have been more widespread. Kinda like tsukamaki; there are dozens of variant styles, but almost 90% of what we see in old pieces is either hiramaki, hinerimaki or tsumamimaki.

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## les yeich

oh, i agree. even if it has some functional merits aesthetically speaking it definitely interrupts the "flow" of the sugata, and i imagine polishers would find that shinogi ji a bitch to polish (not to mention burnish).

i just think the issue is going to be up to the buyers, you know? it's not that much work to get rid of it. i think the kissaki was quite over-engineered, basically. the thought being that the "weakened" shinogi could be reinforced. i'm just kind of thinking it's unnecessary. i've abused the *crap* out of several of the original kriscutlery 26" and 29" kats, which had *extremely* thin blades of a material and strength more or less identical to the raptor series, and i never had any problems with those kissaki. i've seen those where the shinogi was no more than 4mm at the kissaki, and as thin as 3mm.

when are we actually going to see someone grind the lip off, though? i wonder if anyone's even going to think it's worth the effort when they have the blade in hand...

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## Joo-Hwan Lee

> when are we actually going to see someone grind the lip off, though? i wonder if anyone's even going to think it's worth the effort when they have the blade in hand...


I wonder what kind of tool it'd take to grind that off.  Personally, I'd rather save myself the hassle and not buy it in the first place.  :Ninja Master:  

I'm also a bit confused about how that effect was achieved.  Obviously, it's either A) material removed from otherwise normal kissaki (tapering grind from mune-machi), or B) material "added" on top.  My guess is A) would be relatively easier to accomplish in terms of factory production, but I guess I'd need to see the thing in person to be sure.  Anyway, just thinking out loud~

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## les yeich

my guess would be "a", as well. i'm reminded of a picture from one of those ebay sellers, where the guy has a stack of dao. seems they might forge these with that sort of swell, and grind back as you suggested. the alternative -incorporating the shaping into the same step as bringing back the shinogi ji at the bohi transition- seems like it would waste a *lot* of material. kind of makes me wonder how much additional work is put into that feature.

as far as grinding it off, i don't think it would be too hard. might take awhile, and would definitely take some effort to make sure it looks decent afterwards. i don't think i would undertake it unless i was planning on a whole remount. i suppose it's not a realistic project for the average prospective buyer.

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## Aaron Justice

> From an on-line description:
> 
> "The kashira depicts a dragon claw also holding an agate pearl, *the pearl being set so that it is free to rotate within the claw*, yet another first for the forge."
> 
> It seems to me that they could have offered the sword at a lower price and attracted more customers without that completely unnecessary little touch.  But the tsuba is pretty neat and the wakizashi blade looks more promising though.



My good friend Dr. Zoidberg! I mean, Joo! Welcome back.

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## Tsugio Kawakami

Welcome back, Joo!

Yeah, what this whole thing looks like to me is that the shinogiji was sloped too far and made the actual mune too thin...maybe even edgelike? Then it was ground down to make it more dull.

Perhaps the slope is milled on using the shinogi as a guide and depth is not adjusted as the blade tapers?

I dunno. It does look weird, though.

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## Robert Dabroski

From this thread it appears that there are several people of what some members of this sword forum think about the sugata of the Unikubi-Zukuri Raptor series and offerings like it from Hanwei.  Some really dig it, some really abhor it, some want to "fix" it, some will wait and see.....etc.  I'm not going to go into which group of people I fall into, but isn't it interesting to observe what a small lump of metal that weighs almost nothing can do??  Amazing!!!  Have a Good Day!! 
                 Bob Dabroski

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## les yeich

i believe the saying goes "the devil is in the details"

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## Timo Qvintus

I wouldn't say that there are 'camps', rather just people who agree or disagree on certain points brought up in a conversation.

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## D. Stock

Very nice review on the raptor. Where do you buy the green bamboo at?

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## M.K. Ridgeway

> Very nice review on the raptor. Where do you buy the green bamboo at?


I'm in GA,    it grows wild all over the place.

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## Larry L.

Great review. I was wondering, are the others in the raptor series just as robust?

Larry L.

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## les yeich

they should be. with this line the geometry is kind of taking back seat to the material and heat treatment methods.

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## M.K. Ridgeway

From what I understand, the Shobu is way more robust than the Uno...   I havent heard anything about the shinogi zukuri though....

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