# Communities > Antique Arms & Armour Community > Antique & Military Sword Forum >  Curious engraving on an early Wilkinson

## Matt Easton

Hello chaps,
I would appreciate some advice. I have picked up an 1855 dated Wilkinson - an 1854 pattern to the Coldstream Guards with a non-regulation straight double-edged thrusting blade. It is numbered 6900, though I have yet to obtain the ledger entry. Now the question is, what might this engraving (not etching) on the blade be? I initially assumed it was a word in something like Urdu, but I am now wondering if they are stylised name initials. Opinions appreciated!





Thanks,
Matt

----------


## Will Mathieson

The Guards were in the Crimea at the time this was made, maybe some meaning behind it? Almost the same as my Guards Wilkinson # 6695 with Toledo blade. The blade shapes may be for better penetration of Russian winter coats.

----------


## Will Mathieson

The first letter looks Hindi, the letter E but upside down.

----------


## Will Mathieson

http://www.google.ca/imgres?hl=en&sa...,r:3,s:0,i:159

This one contains all the marks: http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=...QEwAg&dur=2581

some marks are letters, others vowels and consonants

----------


## Robert Wilkinson-Latham

Sword made 1855

Could be G H S 
On the other hand it could be the initals in the Hindoo language.
I attach a part of the page of Henry Wilkinsons Notebook showing lettering of some gun and sword inscriptions for comparison.  I still go with Initials perhaps in Hindoo

----------


## MikeShowers

I agree, they look like Hindi characters when the picture is flipped upside down.
Cheers,
Mike

----------


## Will Mathieson

I'm not sure but I think Nepalese is read from right to left.

----------


## Matt Easton

Thanks guys! Fascinating stuff - I see the Hindi letters have the line at the top, so perhaps they should be viewed this way up, as Mike suggested:

----------


## Matt Easton

Wow okay, they are definitely Hindi letters or some other Indian dialect.
The first and second characters seem to relate to the sounds 'ra' and 'pha'.

----------


## Matt Easton

According to friends of mine, these are letters which *may* correspond to I F I or perhaps I F II or E F E in Devanagari. I can't see anyone in Hart's in the Coldstreams who might correspond to that, so far..

----------


## Will Mathieson

The engraving may have been added a few years or more later?
The characters retain fine details, thought the blade appears to have been cleaned over the years and the Wilkinson etching is worn.

----------


## Matt Easton

Maybe, but the VR cypher on the other side is also engraved and looks just the same. Got a photo of your Toledo to share, Will?

----------


## Will Mathieson

Here are a few pics of 6695

----------


## Matt Easton

Lovely sword Will and very close in date to mine. Mine isn't a Toledo style blade - I don't know what you'd call it.. sort of like an HAC sword but with a 'step'. It handles pretty much like an 1895 pattern:











Mine has a scabbard as well, silver plated.

Matt

----------


## J.G. Hopkins

I believe it is a straight "Percy" pattern blade.

----------


## Will Mathieson

Very nice "VR" and different Wilkinson etching. Good thick iron guard that recurves, not like the later plain ones of mild steel.
The "VR" appears to be engraved as the foreign characters are. Must be a good story there.

----------


## Matt Easton

Thanks Jonathan, yes that seems to be the type. Never seen one with the 'step' before though and I can't really see a sensible purpose for it, as it is sharp edged both above and below the 'step', not blunt in the forte like a Toledo.
Matt

----------


## Will Mathieson

Is the "step" from subsequent sharpenings and not factory?

----------


## Matt Easton

Pretty certain it was made that way.

----------


## Will Mathieson

Hard to see in the photos from the brightness. I have a 1888p bayonet with modified diamond shaped blade, done by machine , not by hand. Could the sword have been modified with a keener edge when the engraving was added? 
Hopefully the Wilkinson proof page will have answers.

----------


## Matt Easton

It's possible I suppose - as you say, hopefully the ledger may shed some light.

----------


## Will Mathieson

The officer must have known that there was a good chance he would have had to use it to preserve his life. 
In Nepal and area I think it was a necessity to carry a fighting sword, not to mention the Crimea.

----------


## Robert Wilkinson-Latham

The side where the HW naming etch is has initials with the 7 ball coronet.

The following are the norm
Earl - 8 silver balls 
Viscount- 16 silver balls 
Baron =6 silver balls 

So perhaps wrongly engraved or perhaps the Viscount coronet only showing the front?????

Have you got the Proof Docket yet?  If so I would be thrilled to see it to see what it says. Let's hope that John Latham or Henry Wilkinson filled in the details!!!
Robert

----------


## Matt Easton

Wow, I thought that was just a stylised version of the VR cypher! I have been hammering away at various editions of Hart's list and I have a few possible candidates, but the Indian letters are mysterious. They correspond to the sounds 'I', 'PH' and 'EE'. Probably.. I feel that whoever had this sword engraved must have had some connection to India, which gives a few candidates in the Coldstreams (of officers who had transfered from other regiments). Of course it is entirely possible that this blade was married to a different hilt when first made in 1855 and was re-hilted a few years later.

Just to be clear, are the letters under the coronet the owner's initials, or VR?

I have sent off for the Wilkinson ledger page this morning, so hopefully will have it by the end of the week.
Many thanks Robert,
Matt

----------


## Will Mathieson

The Wilkinson ledger page can be photographed and emailed, seems simple enough and would lessen your (our) wait?

It makes sense that it's the owners initials, if he wanted a VR it would have been etched at Wilkinsons

----------


## Will Mathieson

Is the engraving a "VR" ? Either side looks identical, could be something else? Matt can you post a photo of it?

----------


## Matt Easton

This is the only image I have to hand of that engraving, but I'll try to make a better one this evening.

----------


## Matt Easton

Looking at various European heraldic traditions, the 7 pearled coronet seems to indicate a Baron (for example in Germany and the Netherlands).

----------


## Robert Wilkinson-Latham

Here is what I think are initials. One wouldn't have VR with a coronet above as she was Queen. - Could be a foreign nobleman so let;s hope the Proof slip is complete!!!!

----------


## Matt Easton

Thanks Robert. The Wilkinson ledger would be perfect if it has a name, but it may be possible to work something out even if not, as there aren't that many candidates from the Coldstreams at that period. Their turnover rate seems to have been pretty low after the Crimea.
Best regards,
Matt

----------


## Will Mathieson

Matt, you mention the possibility of it being rehilted. what does the pommel nut look like? Wilkinsons of this period had a specific looking nut. On my sword the nut is rather flattened possibly a rehilt to Coldstream Guard, the proof docket for mine has SFG, not CG, or the entry was just a mistake.

----------


## Matt Easton

The nut looks original to me, but I'll post a photo later. Incidentally, the nut may be silver, the grip wire is silver and the scabbard is silver-plated. The HW proof disc is also curiously pale and not the normal gold colour.

----------


## Will Mathieson

Silver plated possibly for a damp climate expected, or had more to spend? The grip wire on mine is copper.

----------


## Will Mathieson

Matt, do you think the blade is silver plated due to the proof disc colour? I would look at the edge of the blade where sharpened to see if there is a transition in colour. Photos do not distinguish plating on swords. 
Lets hope that proof ledger has all the answers.

----------


## John Hart

Only just spotted this thread...Interesting sword, Matt - I've seen the blade type before (see attached pics from my own collection) - and this case it's described in the proof book ledger as "Straight Percy Blade" much as Jonathan noted.

One point to note is that the Guards regiments never served in India, so the connection between the sword hilt and the mystery blade etching might relate to previous service, or indeed an ancestor's service.

John

----------


## gordon byrne

Matt,

Very interesting sword, must admit that aside from my interest in India, these special blades have always taken my fancy; I have been looking at the monogram and coronet on the blade and although the image is a little indistinct, it looks like the the letter *D* in double reverse. Can you possibly show a better image of this monogram.

Gordon

----------


## Martin R John

Hi Matt
Wife recognises them as Hindi/Sandskrit characters. Vowel at either end and the consonant "pha" in the middle.
http://projectsource.wikispaces.com/Hindi
Martin






> Thanks guys! Fascinating stuff - I see the Hindi letters have the line at the top, so perhaps they should be viewed this way up, as Mike suggested:

----------


## Matt Easton

Thanks for all the help and suggestions chaps.
As promised, here are the better photos of that cypher and coronet, plus one for Will showing the pommel and nut:









Thanks,
Matt

----------


## Matt Easton

A 'C' maybe? Lord Eustace Cecil was in the Coldstreams at this time and served in the Crimea.

----------


## Matt Easton

Or if 'D', Sir James Dunlop perhaps. He was a Baronet.

----------


## John R C

Fascinating sword all round! The initials appear to me to be 'DC'.

----------


## Matt Easton

Dudley Wilmot Carleton was in the Colstreams in 1855 and became 4th Baron Dorchester... seems the most likely candidate yet!

----------


## Will Mathieson

Matt the pommel nut looks original. The backstrap and  guard also look silver plated, not the dark brown/gray patina commonly found on iron hilts.  The metal having a textured finish from wear and corrosion I would say it was plated at a later but not recent date.

----------


## Will Mathieson

DC in uniform   http://www.npg.org.uk/collections/se...Carleton&rNo=1

----------


## gordon byrne

Now I see a better image of the initials, as far as I'm concerned it is definately a *D* in double reverse.

----------


## Matt Easton

Thanks guys - great photo Will!
If it is a D and just a D, then possibilities are:
William Gregory Dawkins
William Henry Wellesley - Viscount Dangan (later Earl Cowley)
Or at a push (as he joined in 1859) the Hon. Vesey Dawson.

Though to me it looks like it may just be the DWC of Dudley Wilmot Carleton. In the photo Carleton's scabbard does look very white, like the Silver of mine, and the drag is the exact same style as mine (assymmetrical, unlike Will and John's examples, which are symmetrical). It may look a little curved though, whereas mine is dead straight.

----------


## gordon byrne

Very interested to see what details are noted on the proof docket?

----------


## Matt Easton

You and me both, Gordon!  :Smilie: 
I'll post it up here as soon as I have it.
Regards,
Matt

----------


## Matt Easton

Could be a double G... Gerald Goodlake VC...  :Smilie: 
I'll stop speculating!

----------


## Will Mathieson

Every time a notice comes up of another reply to this post, it is like death from 1000 cuts, 
the suspense is killing me :Hyuk!: 
Hopefully the answer arrives soon :Big Grin:

----------


## gordon byrne

> You and me both, Gordon! 
> I'll post it up here as soon as I have it.
> Regards,
> Matt


Hi Matt,

Have you established what is noted on the 6900 proof docket?

----------


## Matt Easton

No, it's driving me nuts  :Smilie: . I haven't received it in the post, nor received a reply to my email unfortunately. Perhaps he's away.
I will post it as soon as I have it.
Cheers,
Matt

----------


## Bryan T

Here's to hoping you receive a nice supprise when it does arrive..
Bryan

----------


## Matt Easton

Thanks Bryan, I have a hunch that it's going to have no name though!
Oh, and I have deduced that the blade is indeed also silver plated, as Will surmised.
Matt

----------


## Matt Easton

FYI, some of my post got lost in transit... and it seems that my submission to Richard Milner was amongst these! So I'll send it again, but at least this explains the delay!  :Smilie:

----------


## Will Mathieson

Why not have Richard scan and email you the page?

----------


## Matt Easton

I will do, though the only way I have of contacting/sending him payment is postally with his pdf form.

----------


## Will Mathieson

I'm sure he accepts credit cards, your letter lost in the Christmas rush! Santa does a better job of delivery but only one day a year.

----------


## Matt Easton

Hi Will, yes but he still requires the form to be sent postally with the card and sword details on.

----------


## Matt Easton

Well I have now heard back from Richard Milner and unfortunately 6900 is in one of the missing Wilkinson books!
So I'm left with the Baronial crown, the initials and the strange Hindu letters.

----------


## Matt Easton

> Though to me it looks like it may just be the DWC of Dudley Wilmot Carleton. In the photo Carleton's scabbard does look very white, like the Silver of mine, and the drag is the exact same style as mine (assymmetrical, unlike Will and John's examples, which are symmetrical). It may look a little curved though, whereas mine is dead straight.


This is who I think was the most likely owner and I think that there is a good chance that the sword in that photo is the same sword I now own.
As to the significance of the Hindi writing, I cannot fathom. None of the officers who had possibly matching initials in the Coldstreams had any experience in India, as far as I can see.

----------


## Matt Easton

So, to summarise the only ways I have of pinning this to a person:
Baronial coronet with initials:


Hindi letters - perhaps 'i' 'ph' and 'ie'/'ee'/'de':


The initials under the Baronial coronet could be G, C, or D. Perhaps with an implied W or A in the middle?
The blade dates to 1855, but conceivably could have been rehilted if someone moved to the Coldstreams later. So the owner must have been a person with links to a Baronial title, with these initials, between say 1855 and about 1870 (after which I think that the hilts do not have this general outline).

Possible candidates:
Lord Eustace Cecil
Sir James Dunlop
Dudley Wilmot Carleton 
William Gregory Dawkins
Vesey Dawson
Gerald Goodlake (though he was untitled, his wife was the daughter of a baronet)

I *think* these are the only possible candidates. Any further views on the initials please?

Matt

----------


## Matt Easton

Also just saw this - it seems these Guards officers did like their Percy and Toledo blades! -
http://www.swordforum.com/forums/sho...-some-research

----------


## Matt Easton

Technically, based on the parameters above, it could also be Colin Campbell, 1st Lord Clyde....
EDIT - extremely unlikely though, as the blade dates to 1855 and he wasn't given his title until 1858, after the Mutiny...though conceivably the engravings could have been added later and the blade rehilted when he took command of the Coldstreams in 1860.. Seems extremely unlikely though.

----------


## J.G. Hopkins

I have seen later Guards swords which belonged to Peers.  Many simply had one initial.  So if a sword had belonged to Lord Clyde, it would simply have a C for Clyde.  I agree with Gordon--it look like a letter D in double reverse.  Where there any Peers in the CCG with the letter D during the time of your sword?

----------


## Matt Easton

Okay, reading an 1890's book on heraldry, it suggests that this coronet may be for a Viscount (14 or 16 pearls, only 7 being visible to the front). If we assume that is the case and if we assume that the sword was made as it is in 1855 and never rehilted, Hart's army list for the Coldstreams in 1856 gives the following Viscount possibilities:

George Frederick Upton, 3rd Viscount Templetown
William Henry Wellesley, Viscount Dangan 
Henry William John Byng, 4th Earl of Strafford and Viscount Enfield[?]
James Alfred Caulfield, 7th Viscount Charlemont [only gained the title in 1892...]
William Archer Amherst, 3rd Earl Amherst [known as Viscount Holmesdale]

I can't say that any of those strike me as particularly well matched!

----------


## Matt Easton

> I have seen later Guards swords which belonged to Peers.  Many simply had one initial.  So if a sword had belonged to Lord Clyde, it would simply have a C for Clyde.  I agree with Gordon--it look like a letter D in double reverse.  Where there any Peers in the CCG with the letter D during the time of your sword?


Viscount Dangan, William Henry Wellesley, seems to be the only one matching that criteria.

----------


## J.G. Hopkins

That would make the Hindi(?) letters make more sense:




> MILITARY: Lieutenant - Coldstream Guards, 1852; Captain, 1854; Military Secretary to the Governor of Bombay, 1859; Captain and Lieutenant-Colonel - Coldstream Guards, 1860-1863.
> MILITARY: Battles and Wars> Served in the Oude Campaign, 1858.

----------


## J.G. Hopkins

1863 Hart's List:

(click to enlarge)


I think he is the most likely candidate.

----------


## J.G. Hopkins

Knowing nothing about Hindi or other Indian languages, but...   :Smilie:   Could the letters on the blade correspond to the initials WHW?

----------


## Matt Easton

I'm going to consult with some more linguists on this. On the surface it seems possible, as these symbols relate to sounds rather than letters per se. The fact that he has three initials with the first and last being the same does seem promising. As I understand it the 'lg's sound of the middle character could lead to a harder 'h'.
Cheers,
Matt

----------


## Matt Easton

A comparison between Earl's and a Viscount's coronet:



Although it is more usual to show 10 pearls for a Viscount, Barons nearly always seem to have 4 and Earl's always seen to have 5 on raised stalks. This coronet must be that of a Viscount, which are not infrequently shown with 7 pearls.

----------


## Matt Easton

The more I look at contemporary monograms, the more certain I am that these are not D's, but rather C's, or one C doubled:
http://armorial.library.utoronto.ca/monogram-list/c

For comparison, the monogram of John Joshua Proby, 1st Earl of Carysfort:

----------


## Matt Easton

For me the front contender now is James Alfred Caulfeild, 7th Viscount Charlemont:

http://www.themilitarygentleman.com/...sp%7Cprev=true

----------


## Matt Easton

This is the monogram of John Frederick Campbell, 1st Earl Cawdor - note the precedent for getting the C and C from the title and the surname (or doubling one of them): 



And now from the sword:

----------


## J.G. Hopkins

Imagine this style D in double reverse:





While the Hindi letters may not be WHW and the sword may not be that of Viscount Dangan, I still believe the monogram is a double reverse D as first suggested by Gordon.

----------


## Matt Easton

Well, it may well be a D  :Smilie: . It could be a D or a C as far as I can tell. I think those are the only likely letters. What I am not clear on is whether the crossed 'tails' in the centre is supposed to represent a further letter, for example A.
What I am now certain of is that whoever owned it, it was a Viscount. There is no question on that I think.

So to revise, these are the Viscounts listed in the Coldstream Guards in 1856 (Hart's) -
George Frederick Upton, 3rd Viscount Templetown
William Henry Wellesley, Viscount Dangan 
Henry William John Byng, 4th Earl of Strafford and Viscount Enfield[?]
James Alfred Caulfield, 7th Viscount Charlemont [only gained the title in 1892...]
William Archer Amherst, 3rd Earl Amherst [known as Viscount Holmesdale]

Of those, only Dangan and Charlemont seem to be candidates.
I'll now have a look at some later lists to see if any other individuals show up.

On the matter of the Hindi letters, it seems unlikely to me that they relate to a person's inititals. They are I-PH-II(or E). Those are extremely unlikely to relate to initials - but they could relate to the first letters of a Latin motto or suchlike. I note that the Wellesley family, for example, sometimes wrote their family motto in Hindi!

Cheers,
Matt

----------


## Will Mathieson

I think it should be looked at as a letter and its mirrored image as the mirrored letter does not seem to represent anything unless reversed.
What I see is a "D", if it is viewed as a "C" the lower tale of the C extends quite high.
Hopefully the other script may give a clue as Matt says a family motto.

----------


## Bryan T

Matt,
A quick look in Fairbairn's Crests, Vol.2, noted Plate 131, crest 26 (towards the bottom right corner) shows a typical arrangement of a coronet and initials. The coronet has seven pearls like yours, albeit with a chapeau shown in the centre. In the description to crest 26 it mentions the initials being reversed and entwined. Such reversing at present I am not sure if this means one before the other or a mirror image. There are also some examples of letters with a similar style in the centre of plates 134 to 139 inclusive, for comparison. 

Will have a more in depth look later in the month when I hopefully will have more time and get back home from work. Particularly interested in the aspect of the letters being reversed as this has implications for other applications of sword collecting.

----------


## Robert Wilkinson-Latham

> Imagine this style D in double reverse:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> While the Hindi letters may not be WHW and the sword may not be that of Viscount Dangan, I still believe the monogram is a double reverse D as first suggested by Gordon.


With the magic of Photoshop here is it reversed and intertwined.
Robert

----------


## Matt Easton

Thanks Robert!
If it's a D then I can only see it being Viscount Dangan, AKA William Henry Wellesley (later Earl Cowley). Only an actual Viscount would have this coronet on their sword wouldn't they? There are some other contemporary officers who were brothers or sons of Viscounts, but were not Viscounts themselves.

I can't work out any relation between Viscount Dangan and the Hindi characters, not with family motto, initials, relatives or anything. But it is intriguing that the Wellesley coat of arms sometimes included a motto in Hindi (which I have not been able to find a copy of, only reference to).

Thanks for all your input, gentlemen.

Matt

----------


## Will Mathieson

Matt, any luck with the Wilkinson proof page?   :EEK!:

----------


## Matt Easton

Hi Will, I posted about it further back in the thread - this blade 6900 is unfortunately in one of the lost/destroyed books.  :Frown: 

However, I am starting to feel like I've been over this with a fine toothcomb now... That coronet is definitely for a Viscount. Only one Viscount in the Coldstreams matches a D - Dangan - and only one Viscount matches a C - Charlemont. I can find no other eligible Viscount in the Coldstream Guards, right up to the 1870's (and we know the sword was made in 1855).

----------


## Ralph Grinly

I wonder if there could be any family members of the gentlemen in question who might be able to shed any further light on the sword ? Seeing it seems to have been narrowed down to 2 possibilities..could ? " Burke's Peerage" ? trace the families ?

----------


## J.G. Hopkins

The current Viscount Dangan is a direct descendant of William Henry Wellesley.

----------


## Matt Easton

Indeed! I'm not sure he would want to be bothered by a sword collector though  :Smilie: . The only conclusive way of being 100% that I can think of would be to find evidence of either of these candidates using the same monogram under a coronet.

----------


## Will Mathieson

Matt, on the contrary, I'm sure he would be glad to assist you with this puzzle. I have had great help with family relations in regards to swords. 
They like it when people are interested in their family history and are happy to share what they can. 
I would try, the least they can say is no.

----------


## Will Mathieson

Matt, do you know what number range the missing book contained, if the whole book? The books are 250 entries each, 9001-9249 is also missing.
With your sword number 6900 the book missing should have contained 6751- 7000.

----------


## Matt Easton

Hi Will,
I think I will contact him.
I don't know anything about the ledger books I'm afraid, just that Richard Milner let me know that the book that 6900 would have been in is lost/destroyed.
Cheers,
Matt

----------


## Robert Wilkinson-Latham

Another Cut!!!!!!

Found the attached in Rowe's early sketch book.  While not exactly the same, could this have been the artwork used for the plain engraving on your sword??? (I say engraving and NOT etch) in a planer style????
There is no identity written unfortunately to identify the customer.

----------


## Matt Easton

Very nice Robert! So that's a Viscount's coronet (7 pearls shown again) with a double 'E' under? Interesting to note that the letters are facing 'outwards' as in the double CC examples I posted above - was there a convention regarding having doubled letters pointing 'inwards' or 'outwards'?

----------


## gordon byrne

> Very nice Robert! So that's a Viscount's coronet (7 pearls shown again) with a double 'E' under? Interesting to note that the letters are facing 'outwards' as in the double CC examples I posted above - was there a convention regarding having doubled letters pointing 'inwards' or 'outwards'?


Hi Matt,

Purely a suggestion re aisthetics, and owing to the highly stylized nature of some of the letters, the general appearance would be important. The other point is based on matters heraldic, whereby the principal charge is alway displayed on the left side when you are looking at it, therefore the letter on the left should be displayed so as to read it nomally on the left, with the reverse image of the letter on the right (sinister). As I say, just a suggestion, but would make sense.

Gordon

----------


## Robert Wilkinson-Latham

This style of initial etching seems, from the pulls in Rowe's Sketch Book. to have been very popular. Here are some more examples but alas not the one we are looking for.
Robert

----------


## Matt Easton

Thanks for posting these!

----------


## Matt Easton

Just a slight update to this thread. Unfortunately I have not been able to get a response from Viscount Dangan, but the Crimean War Viscount Dangan remains the most likely original owner of the sword, in my mind, given that there was only one Viscount with the letter D prominently in his name in the Coldstream Guards in 1855. The Hindi characters remain a mystery and various sources have now confirmed that they most likely signify the sounds 'I', 'PH' and 'EE'.

Earlier in the thread I noticed that there seems to be some correlation between these non-regulation straight blades and the Coldstream Guards. Well I have recently discovered that in the letters of Gerald Goodlake VC, who fought with the Coldstream Guards in the Crimea, in 1855 noted to his parents that whilst the sword they had sent him was good, it was not straight and 'un-fluted', as he had requested.... My eyes lit up at this, because of course it suggests that unofficially within the Coldstream Guards there was a fashion at this time for straight un-fullered blades, corresponding to the examples that both Will and I own.

Matt

----------


## Will Mathieson

Hello Matt, the straight unfullered blades may be more than just fashion. Several swords I have seen including a recent acquisition of mine has the unfullered straight blade. Better for penetration and stronger, though a heavier blade.
I have had the pleasure to acquire a Wilkinson 1854p infantry sword made in 1872, ordered by a Maj. of the 3rd Gurkhas who began his career fighting in the India Mutiny. I find many special order Wilkinsons were ordered due to that conflict. The same may be said for the Crimea and needing to penetrate heavy winter Russian coats. 
A fullered bladed sword if it does not penetrate the object and is thrust with intent of running up to the hilt has a good chance of breaking, the blade is made to withstand the force from edge to spine. The I beam shape is never used on its side as strength is lost. An unfullered blade can be viewed as a flat spring stock, more resilient to bending without breaking.

----------

