# Communities > Modern-era Swords and Collecting Community > Modern Production Katanas >  Tamishigiri and noto

## Colin Patrick

Hi all,
I have been practicing Shinkendo for about 18 months now and use a bokken regularly.  I recently got myself a Iaito which I am using regularly and getting more comforatable with.

Occasionally we do some Tamishigiri and my sensei never 'sheaths' the shinken whilst we are using it.  He runs a dry cloth along it between cuts to keep it as dry as possible and only sheaths it once we are finished and is sure it is completely dry.

He says its so no moisture is taken into the saya which shall risk rusting/damaging the blade. 

My question is, is this the norm for tamishigiri.  Not that I am questoning his knowlege, just wanted some backup so to speak.

On video's ec you see guys cutting then 'noto'.  do they dry the saya after or am i missing something?

Appreciate any feedback.
thanks

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## M-A Hernandez

What you say just confort me. Even if anybody taught me that way, I just feel wrong to sheath a "dirty" blade. So I always quickly clean my blade before noto.

Marc-André

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## Jonathan Frances

I don't know what the norm is, but it is a good practice.  It's a good idea to keep moisture and debris out of the saya.  Wiping down the sword before putting it away is a good way to keep things out that shouldn't be in there.  I guess you could do a more thorough break down and re-oil after each cut, but if you are planning on doing a lot of cutting in a given session that will eat up an awful lot of time.

I can't imagine why anyone would perform noto with a blade they just used that they didn't clean in some manner, but they aren't using my swords so who cares  :Smilie:

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## Paul Smith

> I can't imagine why anyone would perform noto with a blade they just used that they didn't clean in some manner, but they aren't using my swords so who cares


  Because that's what is expected within certain confines. The Zen Nihon Battodo Renmei expects this when performing in their sanctioned tai kai. Because of this, it is also generally expected when performing at US tai kai. I've never had an issue as long as I clean my blade after my turn is done. If your targets are properly prepared, there is generally very little moisture or debris that gets in the saya, and tapping it out is not a problem.

  However, I also know a number of experienced folks that will not perform noto without first wiping their blade during tameshigiri. Your best bet Colin, is to trust that your sensei knows what he's talking about. Nothing in the Japanese sword arts is clear cut, and exceptions can be found for almost any rule. If one school insists that there's only one correct way, that just means that there's only one correct way _for that school_.  :Smilie:

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## Mat Rous

Like Paul, we perform Noto after Tameshigiri at Taikai and gradings etc.

TBH, if you are doing Tameshigiri, your blade WILL get marks and scratches. There is no way to avoid this.

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## Jonathan Frances

> Because that's what is expected within certain confines. The Zen Nihon Battodo Renmei expects this when performing in their sanctioned tai kai. Because of this, it is also generally expected when performing at US tai kai. I've never had an issue as long as I clean my blade after my turn is done. If your targets are properly prepared, there is generally very little moisture or debris that gets in the saya, and tapping it out is not a problem.
> 
>   However, I also know a number of experienced folks that will not perform noto without first wiping their blade during tameshigiri. Your best bet Colin, is to trust that your sensei knows what he's talking about. Nothing in the Japanese sword arts is clear cut, and exceptions can be found for almost any rule. If one school insists that there's only one correct way, that just means that there's only one correct way _for that school_.


If it's expected protocol at a given event, there's not much to be done about it.  Seems odd to allow chiburi but forbid chinugui.  Then again, I understand some people squeeze the blade between fingers during noto - effectively wiping the blade off with corrosion-inducing fingers.  OK.  v :Smilie: v

Scratches are definitely inevitable with use, and quite possibly stains and other adorable signs of wear and tear.  Hey, your swords and venue, do as you like / are told.

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## Colin Patrick

Thanks guys for your feedback.

I Wonder if its possible to get a second saya which could be retained for 'functional' use only, thus avoiding any issues with long term storage.
Would that do the trick?

If so, anyone know where I can find a Tori Elite XL saya   :Stick Out Tongue: 

thanks

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## Jonathan Frances

You can have as many saya made as you can afford.  It seems like there is a smaller number of people building koshirae than in the past, but they are still out there.
You could try asking Hanwei I guess - even though these are production swords you'll probably find enough variance to prevent a seamless parts swap.  You might get lucky though.

Really though, all you need to avoid issues with long term storage is to clean your sword when you use it, and not go crazy with applying too much oil.

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## tiziano s.

Personally, I always recommend the possession of two saya: one for use, one to rest or exposure.
Of course, and in any case, the blade is always clean well after each session tameshigiri.
In my school, the tameshiri is practiced presenting in front of the mats with the katana in hand and without saya opposite: this symbolizes that the swordsman cutting face (death) without the certainty of return.
Finished the round in front of the mat, let a dry cloth on the blade before storing it in the saya. Only when we finish the training session martial,  we are dedicated to cleaning.

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