# Communities > Modern-era Swords and Collecting Community > Modern Production Katanas >  High end iaito's and/or vintage-antique

## Steve Hatfield

Seems to be a lot of discussion about finding iaito's that are both economical and quality going around the forums.  And it also seems that many folks "graduate" from an iaito to a shinken at some point down the line.  

My question is this,  

How many folks invest in high end iaito's?  

Now I'm no expert by any stretch so I'm going to use the $500.00 and up figure as "high end".  

Vintage/antique iaito's:  Do they exist?  Are they collectible?  

Steve

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## J.Stiefel

Steve,

Many senior practitioners at my dojo often use shinken for practice. I personally haven't arrived at that comfort level. 

Its all about perspective really. Of course folks are looking for the best cost/value relationship when they are making an iaito purchase. Available funds are often a limiting/determining factor in the decision as well. In my own limited experience, $300 is about the absolute minimum you could expect to spend on an alloy iaito from a reputable distributor that should give you many years of good service. There are options out there for less that may serve as a temporary solution until one could afford better, but typically don't tend to last all that long and usually have very hit/miss quality control.

In my own estimation, I will always have need for a good alloy iaito. The one I purchased a little over a year ago came out to be right at $1100. More than I needed? Sure. Everything I wanted with top-notch quality and personally apealing, high end asthetics? Ditto.

Hope that helps.

Kind Regards,

John

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## J.Stiefel

I also wanted to point out that there are some dojo that never use shinken in practice. Even though mine does, it does not preclude the need for an iaito as study progresses.

Participation in kata (forms) competitions at most all Tai Kai, as well as practice of kumitachi (partner-pair kata) are  a few reasons that necesitate the need for many JSA practitioners to maintain an iaito in their "arsenal" regardless of skill level.

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## Steve Hatfield

Thanks J.     My reasons for asking were that I am now in the middle of dealing with an iaito purchase that I am not 100% satisfied with so far.  I spent about 260 on one and it's tsuba and habaki were loose, I contacted the company and they sent me another one (this time I upgraded to a 300 dollar one) and it also had a loose tsuba and habaki on it.  And I had to pay 40.00 send the first one back.  That's why the question about high end iaitos.  I want quality when it comes to something I'm gonna swing at a high rate of speed.  But, as a beginner I'n not ready for the $1100 jump yet.  Thanks
Steve

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## Dave Drawdy

you don't have to answer, of course, but where are you getting these?  The Japanese-made ones are usually quite consistent in the quality of the fit, price break comes on the quality of the fittings.  For Chinese-made ones, it is generally the other way around.  I generally would not recommend those, but some people seem to be happy with them.  
I would not say $500 is the start point for 'high-end'.  Probably closer to $800.  Lots of choices out there, some reasonable ones under $500, probably ok pnces at about $350 or so.  High end is choices of lots of available customization.
As for antique iaito, I would not really expect there to be a collectors market for them, but I could be wrong.  

Dave

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## Steve Hatfield

Thanks Dave.  I got these from Jidai in Japan.  I started another thread titled another jidai review about the experience. which hasn't been good so far, well it started out as a good experience as they replaced the first sword no questions asked, then it went downhill from there.  My contention was, if two different model swords ordered at two different times from the same company, had the same exact problem, then maybe there was a problem with the sword process.  They say no, it's the shipping company.  All I wanted was a sword that the fittings didn't come loose on within two weeks of purchase.  Now, some folks say it's not a big deal and told me how to fix the sword.  With me it's a principle thing.  Had I had the sword awhile and the tsuba and habaki went loose I'd say ok and fix it.

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## Dave Drawdy

bummer.  I haven't dealt with Jidai, would have thought their stuff would have been generally the same, think there are only about three producers of iaito in Japan, but some companies do their own wraps and mounting.

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## Andrew W. Priestley

This is the first negative comment I've heard about a Jidai, so I wouldn't be too worried about the company's whole output, at least not over time, but as a woodworker, it makes me wonder if they didn't get in a shipment of lumber that was perhaps not completely seasoned, thus the tsuka cores are shrinking a bit more after they are cut and shaped and built, and shrink still more in shipping from Japan to wherever Stephen lives. 

Again, this stuff happens with wood. It is a natural product and thus behaves somewhat erratically in response to environmental conditions.   I would imagine that just about any iaito, from any manufacturer, transported from sub-tropical Seki Japan to a very dry environment is going to suffer similarly and adjustments will be needed.  So that must be accounted for as well. 

If Stephen's local environment is temperate or moist then there are other issues at work. 

Nevertheless, I suspect that a little careful adjusting will solve the problem without further expenditure.  

The quickest, simplest solution may just be to wrap teflon type dental floss such as Gore Glide brand between the seppa and tsuba to take up space and tighten things up.   This doesn't require you to dissassemble the iaito and risk dislodging any shims that may be placed in the tsuka nakago ana to keep that tight and provides a flexible solution that gives a bit should humidity rise and the tsuka core expand again.

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## Gary S

If you're using the term "iaito" specifically referring to japanese made mogito, then unless things have changed since I last looked around $500 does not constitute high end. I bought mine about 13 years ago for $300 and that was about as cheap as I could find. Considering that I still have it and several of my students started out on it, I guess I got my money's worth.
 To my way of thinking, once you get past the $450 or so range, you've got as nice a blade as you're going to get. Any extra spent past that will merely get you better fittings. It just doesn't seem right to put expensive fittings on what is essentially a "fake" sword. To me an iaito is just a tool, that's kinda like having a gold plated hammer. Once you get to the over $800 range, you're getting close to the market for a decent shinken. You might as well save up some more and get the real thing.
My primary shinken I use for iai is actually an old koto blade I got for $600. It's a little tired and it has an obvious forged signature, but the thing is still an impressive weapon. 
Once you get to a certain level, practicing with a live blade opens up a whole new state of awareness, that I don't think is possible with an iaito. HOWEVER, having an iaito as backup is still a good idea for times when your concentration is off, or you haven't practiced for a while. I went through a stage where the aforementioned shinken was the only sword I would use. Unfortunately, that period coincided with the first few years of my son's life. Unfortunate because from the day of his birth, he decided that life was too fun to waste it on sleeping. My first sleep-deprived moment of stupidity nearly cost me my left hand thumb and index finger,and 6 months of physical therapy to get it the use of my left hand back.
My second moment of sleep-deprived stupidity only cost me about 11 stitches on my left arm, but when I took a closer look at the entrance wound and saw a little cut on the opposite side of my arm where the tip of the sword went through my arm I decided enough was enough. So know if I feel my concentration isn't what it should be, I drag out my iaito.  The pain and the frightening thought that  I could have maimed myself was bad enough,but enduring nicknames like "Stitch", and "Frankenstein" at work was a bit too much...  :Smilie:

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