# Communities > Antique Arms & Armour Community > Middle-East, India & Africa (MEIA) >  Please help with antique Jambiya:)

## Maryanna A

Hello.
I would like to know anything, please, about my youngest son's Jambiya. It was a gift from his now deceased grandfather who, was Lebanese. It tests positive for silver and 24kt gold. The photos will tell its story because, I honestly know nothing about its history prior to 1989. How do I post photos?
Maryanna

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## Maryanna A

Please help me to post photos. Thank you.
Maryanna

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## Maryanna A



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## Maryanna A



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## Manouchehr M.

Dear Maryanna,

Welcome to SFI.  This an Omani dagger, an Omani khanjar/jambiya.  The L-shaped scabbard shape is typical for that.  For more examples see:

http://www.oriental-arms.com/item.php?id=1383

http://www.oriental-arms.com/item.php?id=615

http://www.oriental-arms.com/item.php?id=1959

Kind regards

Manouchehr

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## Maryanna A

Hello, M. Manouchehr.
Thanks for your welcome. :Smilie:  
I live in Australia and the time difference is awkward.
Anyway, I have several questions to ask, if this is ok with you?
How old is it?
If it tests for silver why, is there verdegris building up around the two rings?
Why is the blade rusting? It was not like this, originally. Is it because I live near the sea? Is it because I have not cared for it? (I didn't know how. It has sat in a cabinet, all these years.) Is it rusting because it has been used? (I'm guessing, here.)
Is it all lined with leather? I ask because there is one section (it shows in my images) where I can see leather beneath the silver and gold.
What is inside the pouch? (excuse my ignorance for the correct terminology) It looks like timber? 
Thanks, in advance.
Maryanna

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## Ethan P.

I can't answer how old it is, but my guess for why the rings have verdegris building up is because the rings are probably made of copper, brass, or bronze. In your close-up of that area, it seems to look orange-ish like copper, not yellow like gold. I've also heard that the tannins in leather (like the thing holding the ring in place is made of) can make metals tarnish.

The blade is rusting because it has oxidized. There's many ways this has happened, either from contact with salt, water, or even the air. When caring for carbon steel, it's always important to remember to ALWAYS oil the blade. Bad things could happen otherwise.

As far as leather goes, I don't know about middle eastern knives, but in European sheath construction, it's common practice to have a wooden core surrounded by leather to hold it all together. Other decoration is then attached. I'd say that's what is going on.

If the "pouch" you're referring to is the sheath (thing you stick the blade in, if you didn't know), and you're seeing wood, it is. The bottom layer is wood, then leather, then decoration.

At least as far as I know...

-Ethan

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## Maryanna A

Hello, Ethan.
Thank you for your reply.
I'll go back to my jeweller to test the rings for silver. I can't remember if he tested them but, even I know that silver (unless plated over a base metal) should not oxidise. The gold bits tested positive for gold. Looking at my photo, I see what you mean, though with that gold covering, at the end of the sheath(thanks for the correct word), looking coppery. But, the  rest all look very yellow gold. I suspect the lighting had some effect on my photos, also.  
Should I oil the blade, now, as it is? (son's explanation for the rust is that, the blade was used and it came into contact with blood. Who knows? Is this plausible?) Or should I have it professionally cared for?
I am not able to see if the wood extends all the way down the sheath. I am able to see piece/s? Not sure. 
The sheath is very hard, solid and firm. Would it still have a timber base? Bear in mind that the timber which I can barely see at the opening does not look secure and, dare I say, 'wobbly'. 
I noticed that the examples, in the links offered by Manouchehr, do not display gold. Why is ours decorated in gold?
Sorry for all the questions. Son (Uni student) has asked me to sell it so, I need to be confident in the description of what I'm selling before I commit to it.
I truly appreciate any information which you have and may offer.
Maryanna

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## Maryanna A

Ethan, I just checked and the internal timber case is much smaller than the sheath itself but the blade fits inside it, comfortably.

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## Ethan P.

It's doubtful that the rust is from blood. If someone were to harm someone with this jambiya, they probably knew what they were doing. That being the case, they would have cleaned the blade after use.

I think jambiya are more of a decorative weapon than a combat one anyway. Tell me if I'm wrong, anybody, as I'm new to middle eastern stuff and would hate to misinform someone.

Besides, if it were to come into contact with blood, it would have been recent. The rust is red, which means it's still active. It's always a good rule to oil stuff anyway, so in other words. GO OIL THAT SUCKER!!!

Especially if you live close to the ocean (humidity, salty stuff not good for steel).

I don't know why the shown examples don't show gold decoration. Different tastes and budgets, I suppose.

Call me crazy, somebody, but that cap on the end of the sheath looks odd compared to everything else.

At this point, it's pretty much the extent of my knowledge. Correct me and inform this poor lady, someone, so I don't end up saying everything wrong!

Tensely,

-Ethan

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## Maryanna A

Why does that cap (on the end of the sheath) look odd?

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## Maryanna A

Oh and what oil do I use, please?

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## Ethan P.

The cap looks odd because it's VERY bright compared to the rest of the piece. It looks almost like painted plastic. Maybe it's the fact that it must be a piece of gold the size of a racoon's brain that makes it brighter, but it doesn't look...natural. The casting on it looks questionable. Everything else looks genuine to my amateur eye, though.

As far as oil goes, it doesn't really matter. I've used vegetable oil, olive oil, and machine oil. Others are big fans of mineral oil. Try and avoid plant-based oils, since they can go rancid.

Yup, anyone can chime in any time you want...

-Ethan

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## Maryanna A

Ethan,
The cap is gold on the 'face' side. On the underside it is silver.
The repousse scroll/foliage motif (on the cap) is consistent with that on the top section of the sheath.
I wiped the blade with extra virgin olive oil (Mediterranean here) making sure not to leave it so dry that, the oil is totally removed. This should also benefit the internal timber case.
I also wiped, gently, the verdigris with a soft tooth brush and, the verdigris simply came off as dust into the air. It has left a grey mark/discolour but, the vivid green golour is no longer there. (Thinking out loud, now and jotting my observations).
Ethan you have been a tremendous help and, I do not want you to feel obliged to respond. I am grateful. And, I feel that I now 'know' more than when I originally posted, this thread.
Sincerely, many thanks,
Maryanna

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## Michael Blalock

This is a relatively new but very well made Jambiya. From the detaills it looks like it was made by someone with training in modern jewelry techniques. Most likely made within the past 50 years. Very nice and valuable, for both workmanship and materials. Keep it oiled. Also the horn could use some oil.

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## rand milam

Hello Maryanna,

Your Grandfather has left you son a very well made Jambiya.  You ask about its age, if you look carefully a the silver wire you will see no flat sections of wear. Also, if you look at where the recesses are between the silver work you will see no build up of dirt.  These are both strong indications that this dagger does not have too much age.

The rust on the blade is most likey shallow and should be fairly easy to be removed and repolish the polish.  Most likey cause os the rust was simple neglect and time.

Its especially nice to have the gold accents and this dagger will become an heirloom for your family.  Maybe you should keep it for him, sounds like he is too young to appreciate its value for the family at this time.

Daggers like this for men like your Grandfather carried a deeper meaning than the glitter of silver and gold....

I see the Saints smiling in the distant mountains,

rand

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## Maryanna A

Hello, rand milam.
Thank you for your reply.
It was my son's Lebanese grandfather (and, my now deceased ex father-in-law) who chose to give this to my half Lebanese son instead of, one of his other 11 full Lebanese grandsons. I understand the cultural value that this carries. I understand that it is already a family heirloom. But its fate is not a decision for me to make.
May I also say that it had been partly cleaned and polished (bar the blade) before I took these photos. Since then, I've oiled the blade and cleaned it, further. I'll take new photos, later today and post them. I understand that I have removed its patina but, it 'looks' stunning now. 

Hello, Michael Blalock.
Thank you for your reply. 
I'll oil the horn, also.

You *both* appear to have the same opinion re its age. Thank you, *both*, for this information. We thought that it was much older but, we have no expert knowledge - hence, my post on this Forum. At least, we now have an indication of its age. Thank you. :Smilie:  
Maryanna

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## Manouchehr M.

Maryanna,

If I were you I would keep this.  It is a nice dagger.

Kind regards
Manouchehr

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## Maryanna A

Hello, Manouchehr.
Thank you for your reply.
Apart from it being part of my son's paternal heritage, why would you keep this dagger? 

My concern is that I do not know how to look after it apart from polishing and, oiling the blade (thanks to this Forum for the "oiling" tip). After all, I've had it just sitting in a cabinet, for all these years and, only recently polished its exterior.  
I am truly concerned about the blade. If you refer back to image #5, in my post #4, you will notice there are two chips on the top edge of the blade. Will they continue to erode? The blade was not rusty when it was given to my boy, in 1989. I remember it being 'rough' where the rust is, now and that, the chips (on the blade's top edge) were there but, maybe not as pronounced? (Can't really remember.) How did the chips get there? Isn't a blade supposed to be strong (and, hence unbreakable) metal? What type of metal is our blade?
Sorry to ask so many questions. Curiousity is my thirst for knowledge.
Maryanna

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## Maryanna A

Hello, again.

Manouchehr, I would like to know your opinion on the possible date/age of our jambiya, please. :Smilie:  

Curiousity is my thirst for knowledge.
Maryanna

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## Michael Blalock

Here is a very similar Omani Khanjar, go to the link for a higher resolution photo.

http://www.bonhams.com/cgi-bin/publi...&iSaleNo=13081

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## Manouchehr M.

> Hello, again.
> 
> Manouchehr, I would like to know your opinion on the possible date/age of our jambiya, please. 
> 
> Curiousity is my thirst for knowledge.
> Maryanna


Maryanna,

Concerning the age, I need to see it closely.  I think it might be a bit older as suggested, but the age is not an important factor at all.  You have an excellent dagger with well-executed decoration.  I would keep it.

Kind regards
Manouchehr

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## rand milam

Hello Maryanna,

Your well made Jambiya appears to have been recently cleaned and polished, remnants of cleaning compounds are evident in recesses.   Would suggest using a silver polishing cloth, this will give the silver a more natural lustre.  The chemical cleaners tend to make a more white appearing silver.

On the silver rings on near where the coiled leather is, you can see where the silver had turned almost black in color.  This would be an indication of a coin grade silver and some age.  If you rub coin grade silver with you finger it will leave a black smudge.

Your dagger looks to be in mint condition, showing very little wear, on the silver wire twists near the silver rings you can see where there is grime accululation, also again where the silver wire has turned black.

Gold will also form a dull patina over time, my guess is its 22-24k and also recently polished.

The green cloth on the back shows very little wear.  Hard to guess if this has been replaced as the rest of the dagger is in pristine condition. The cloth makes the dating really hard here as it looks very new in the photo. 

I would keep this dagger and look for a belt to match it while these are still available.  After all, you only have one Grandfathers Jambiya.

The Jambiya looks pre 1950 in date, and could be decades earlier, this style of dagger and ornament easily go back to the 19th century.   If somebody thought this to be from the 1920's, it would be hard to disagree.

I still see the prohpets smiling in the distant hills,

rand

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## Maryanna A

Hello.
Thank you, Manouchehr and, rand for your latest replies. 

I need to ask you all about the etiquette regarding the usage of this Forum, please. 

As stated earlier, my son's intention was to sell his Jambiya. Would I be acting with dis-respect to the knowledgeable members of this Forum if, I were to make mention about this discussion, within my listing? Would any one object? 

Should anybody express discontent with my intention, I shall refrain from mentioning this discussion.

Sincerely,
Maryanna

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## rand milam

Hello Maryanna,

You can send a personal message to the moderator for a quick response if one does not spot your question soon.

During the interrum....

When an item is or has been being discussed, and the owner decides to sell their object on example Ebay, it would be good to inform the moderator of this forum so they can put a lock on the thread during the auction.  This does not limit access for viewing, it just stops the discussion of an item while listed in an active auction.  The same ettiquette would apply if you listed it in the for- sale section here.  Its my understanding this forum simply does not want discussion on this format while an item is being offered for sale.

The "how much is it worth"  is not a subject discussed here.

Am sure a moderator will give you a better answer,

rand

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## Maryanna A

Hello, rand.
Thank you for your reply.
I shall follow your advice because, I sincerely would not want this discussion to continue whilst the duration of my listing and secondly, I prefer also that members refrain from offering, within this discussion, any opinion regarding its possible value. 

Who is the moderator?
Maryanna

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## Maryanna A

Please ignore my last question. I have found who the moderator is.

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## Manouchehr M.

The thread temporarily locked as per request by Maryanna.

Kind regards
Manouchehr

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