# Communities > Modern-era Swords and Collecting Community > Modern Production Katanas >  to anyone considering buying from Thaisuki...

## tom geusz

I've been asked to remount a Dai-sho from this company.My client spent a lot on these blades,even going so far as to have Fred Lohman make custom silver habaki for them.I received them after this.
Before you purchase one of these blades please PM me.
Thank you.

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## Scott Turchin

Those are mine and Tom and I have talked and you can PM either of us if you are thinking about buying one - hopefully we can change your mind.

I knew 2 yeas ago they were crap, although Fred Lohman told me they were "a good investment" - two other people have agreed they are crap.

Unfortunately I already spent hte money on them. So I figured I'd put a few bucks into them and at least try to make them decent - Kind of like polishing a turd.

So I spent $500 on Habaki with Fred Lohman - those will be going up for sale and those are nicer than the swords - if interested PM me. I'll post in the for sale section when they return...

I'm not near as pissed off as I am when I received them 2 years ago. And I just bought one that Brian remounted and re-wrapped that should serve me well.

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## tom geusz

...donate a forge folded ,blade made by Fred Chens' forge that I've reprofiled the kissaki on,repolished and will now cut down to 22" nagasa to match the blade Scott recently bought from Brian.
I have a lot of swords and too many projects.This blade was lying around so what the hell,it's a cruel world.What come's around goe's around...

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## Jeffrey Ching

I'm a bit curious about the 'polished turd'... I can't imagine a Chinese production sword being good investment. In best case scenario they don't devaluate much if stored properly.

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## Geir H.

Very sorry to hear this, Scott. I can't say I was much impressed with the level of craftmanship on the fittings either, though I'll put them to good use after reworking them a bit. I still can't believe they put those enormous katana fittings on such a small blade, they will go fine on a massive nodachi.  :Big Grin:

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## tom geusz

most of my collection is of custom smiths work, I've owned a few production pieces(and still have a few kicking around) so as a matter of comparison,and to explain Scott's dissapointment, I had to tell him the truth.Brutally so.
I really don't think he understood just how bad and dangerous these blades are.'Polishing a turd' may not be the most eloquent way of describing his displeasure although it is rather a true anology unfortunately.

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## Joo-Hwan Lee

Maybe a moderator will correct me if I'm wrong, but I think it would be in the interests of everyone here if you could be more detailed in your assessment of blades by Thaitsuki (pictures are always nice).  It's one thing to be mindful of potential lawsuits for libel or whatever-- but I think an honest and frank *personal opinion*, put forward with sufficient tact and rationale, will further SFI's educational mission.  

Anyone who has ever used the "search" function knows that there are already older threads that discuss the quality problems at Thaitsuki.  But that shouldn't mean we do not pursue the matter in new conversations.  By discussing "what went wrong" it gives us all an opportunity to learn/reinforce "what should have been."

Tom, as a person who has extensive experience with blades from all spectrums of the market--from production to custom to nihonto--your insights are especially valuable and, as a fellow forumite, I would hate for you to feel like you couldn't share your knowledge for fear of any unwarranted censure.  

But that's MY personal opinion.  Such as it is....  :Smilie:

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## tom geusz

> Maybe a moderator will correct me if I'm wrong, but I think it would be in the interests of everyone here if you could be more detailed in your assessment of blades by Thaitsuki (pictures are always nice).  It's one thing to be mindful of potential lawsuits for libel or whatever-- but I think an honest and frank *personal opinion*, put forward with sufficient tact and rationale, will further SFI's educational mission.  
> 
> Anyone who has ever used the "search" function knows that there are already older threads that discuss the quality problems at Thaitsuki.  But that shouldn't mean we do not pursue the matter in new conversations.  By discussing "what went wrong" it gives us all an opportunity to learn/reinforce "what should have been."
> 
> Tom, as a person who has extensive experience with blades from all spectrums of the market--from production to custom to nihonto--your insights are especially valuable and, as a fellow forumite, I would hate for you to feel like you couldn't share your knowledge for fear of any unwarranted censure.  
> 
> But that's MY personal opinion.  Such as it is....


There's bad and there's worse.I've seen people nitpick over a tiny imperfection in a production blade."Send it back" is often the advice given here.With a little ingenuity and patience that small problem could be fixed by the new owner.These blades are so far beyond that,that tossing them in the trash would be your best recourse just so you don't have to look at them and have yourself reminded of the money you wasted.
The lowliest Hanwei piece is light years ahead of what these are.Not just in looks but (I feel) an actual danger to use.
That is why I thought it best to use the pm feature because believe me,I could go on and on...

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## Jeffrey Ching

Hey Tom, now you actually scare me. 
Lot of guys who work with swords regard blades as tools that break, can be fixed etc etc. So when you actually think that a blade is beyond repair it must be pretty dramatic.

I hope that we have the brains to figure out that one bad item isn't saying anything about the overall quality of a forge (100 bad items actually do but that's a different story).

However I believe it might be interesting to see what the actual defects are. You might just prevent somebody getting hurt.

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## Scott Turchin

We'll have photos forthcoming - Tom I'll call ya tomorrow - promised my daughter I'd take her to the ocean today so I'll be out of commission for a day...

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## tom geusz

I have respect for the Chinese forge's in general.Without them most folks would not be able to even own a psuedo 'Japanese Sword'.In fact I've learned tons from destroying these blades where I found austenite to pearlite crystal transitions the size of rice grains.Thats a blade waiting to snap.
As far as Scotts blades,just handeling them(I done no 'testing' on them) I can tell you,think heat treat-heat treat-heat treat.
That is why Howard Clark is who he is,not because his blades are pretty.

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## A. Timp

Just my opinion, but I myself owned a Thaitsuki Musashi back in the day. I sold it 2 weeks later for much less than I paid, it was quite the experience.

I just don't understand how they justify their high prices with the finished product, then again, if people continue to purchase from them, they'll continue to produce.

Hanwei's low end have better blades and QC, and for less than half the cost.

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## Scott Turchin

Just an update on this - 

Talked with Tom last night for a couple of hours but basically the Katana heat treatment was so erratic that there are weak spots where Tom believes the blade would just break if struck wrong.

Besides the Tsuka being shimmed and fitted and just generally not very professionally done.

The width of the blade at hte base is far too narrow, as is the tang. (Sorry I do not have this name memorized in Japanese yet)

Could go on and on with the faults on it but remember a chain is weakest at it's weakest link, and if there is a 1/4" space where clay was not applied during tempering - it becomes a liability.

Also was it monosteel or something - have to get with him again for that term, they are not made in a traditional method as they claim - that's an outright lie on their website.

Now, want to make a note though - Tom said the Wakizashi was ....NOT differentially hardened, but not a bad blade, perhaps functional.  I intend to re-mount it and use it as a cutting blade, and maybe learn to polish on it.

So WK4 wak - not bad but not worth the price they are asking for it.


I hope google has picked up enough negative press to either force this company to make a blade worthy of their price or just let people know there are alternatives to paying such a high price for a substandard sword.



This was one expensive lesson to learn, this lesson is almost over for me, newer swords will be enroute soon.

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## Jeffrey Ching

Hi Scott & Tom, 
Thanks for the honest thoughts, while the issue of a thin nakago (the name of the tang  :Smilie: ) also happens a lot with Japanese iaito it's definitely a very dangerous situation. Some people don't seem to realize how much stress the habaki has to endure.

The existence of Thaitsuki keeps amazing me. Good luck and I'm glad you decided you share your hard lesson with us.

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## tom geusz

...it's not a 1/4" spot of hamon falling off the edge,but multible 4 to 6" area's where the hamon vanished off of the ha.And at the kissaki,the hamon just weht straight off the end.All of the boshi and hardened area's of the tip were cosmetically apllied.
The wak just seems to be a thru hardended blade with a completely fake hamon added.There are still ton's of things wrong with the shaping,but nothing dangerous if remounted.There is a secondary bevel to create a sharp edge though.It reminds me of 'old school' American Tanto's that could 'peirce 50 gallon drums' because of the chisel shaped tip.
These swords look nothing like what is pictured on their website...

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## Scott Turchin

Thanks Tom for clearing that up - I've  been pulled 10 different ways lately with the lay off coming so my short term memory is overflowing  :Smilie:

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