|
Post by antoine99 on Dec 21, 2017 4:52:32 GMT
rightly perhaps? You might be on to something š best idea for a sword ever. Have a custom peen block that holds the grip together but a Quick Detach pommel or bottom half of pommel. Name the sword ārighteous endā bwhahahaha š If you think about it, bullets are just mini pommels. @djinobi: You mean like I described the way I tried it, just wrapping one hand around handle and your other hand over that? It was indeed pretty awkward feeling, does it really give you any advantages?
|
|
|
Post by antoine99 on Dec 21, 2017 1:22:00 GMT
I agree with the above. I've done a ton of cutting with my Cold Steel Gladius machete, and a two-handed grip is very awkward feeling. The pommel is just too big and the grip too short. A Gladius always has, and always will be, a single-hander. A two-handed Romanesque spathe-type sword is an interesting concept though. Hmmmmm....... So if you unscrewed the pommel...You could use that in your off hand...? To do something...With? Like... Ending someone...? In a particular way? But yes the pommel is quite enormous.
|
|
|
Post by antoine99 on Dec 20, 2017 22:00:37 GMT
Imo, both the hilt and the blade of a gladius are too short to let the off-hand be of use on the weapon. Iād keep it in front in confined spaces and at the back hip in the open, to free the body for powerful motions. Iād keep a closed fist with a gladius and definitely keep my fingers behind the guard, to not get them crushed on my own shield edge (if you have a shield). Check out Meyer's dussack section, perhaps there's something you can adapt for use without a shield... Here's a link for the start (scroll down for dussack): wiktenauer.com/wiki/Joachim_MeyerOh very nice, thanks!
|
|
|
Post by antoine99 on Dec 20, 2017 21:05:53 GMT
Hey everyone This might sound like a silly question, but say for example a legionary is separated from his shield during battle when s*** goes down, and now he only has his gladius, and nothing in the other hand, would it be smart to use two hands on the gladius? Or whatever situation arises where you only have your gladius and that's it. I tried and it feels very wrong because of the handle only being big enough for one hand, so I have to basically double-up my hand ontop of the other hand. When I use my gladius I keep my other arm behind my back for safety. Also, back to normal one-handed use, am I supposed to have my thumb up on the guard (not the blade) for stability? It seems like I have more control that way, as opposed to basically making a fist around the handle. Thanks!
|
|
|
Post by antoine99 on Dec 20, 2017 3:17:30 GMT
I was actually looking to buy this one sometime: kultofathena.com/product.asp?item=AK008I prefer that look over those other two, and I saw a nice review on it on Youtube by Skallagrim as well, it seems really tough (especially good since I don't intend to hit anything with it, so it should last forever). Maybe it's not 100% historically accurate, but I do like it. Also, btw Timo, you recommended this then? www.coldsteel.com/products/spears/assegai-with-long-shaft.htmlYou said it would be a good one-handed practice Dory? That looks aesthetically pleasing to me. I don't mind it not having a butt-spike. The CS spear is cheap and functional. The head is heavier than you want, but you're not likely to find better on a cheap production spear. You would want to put a heavy butt on it, for balance, to use it as a dory (how heavy? the usual butt is double the weight of the usual head, so about 700g, which puts the total weight at about 2kg - heavy, but might work as heavy practice spear). CS RRPs are high, and it's usually easy to find dealers who sell for much lower prices. You'll do much better with DIY with a lighter head. The Devil's Edge kopis looks nice, and the hilt looks nicer than the Deepeeka. Very heavy though (for a kopis). I prefer 16" kukri to be lighter than that. Thanks again! You're right, for that price for the spear I can't be too picky. It does seem like a good deal though, just for a "poor man's Dory". Even if I don't add a butt for counterweight, I could just add something there that weighs that much for balance. The butt is 2x the weight of the head? Damn, I never would have thought that.
|
|
|
Post by antoine99 on Dec 20, 2017 1:16:00 GMT
Maybe more badass, but less Frank Miller. Assuming it was made with similar weight, blade thickness, and hilt weight, the biggest functional difference between a replica of the movie sword and a real kopis would be the ricasso. Which would the real kopis a bit better, IMO, since I think there is more use for an edge near the guard on a sword like this than a long ricasso. Of course, given that replicas are usually more than 1lb overweight compared to a real kopis, you don't usually get that similar weight etc. part. More generally, for kopis vs xiphos, I'd be happy to get to use a kopis instead of a xiphos (and judging by art, many Greeks were happy with one too). Not that a xiphos sucks, just that I'd like a kopis. A nice kopis replica: www.manningimperial.com/catalogue/arms/greek-and-roman-arms/korfu-kopis/623A cheap kopis replica: kultofathena.com/product.asp?item=AH4237W and www.kultofathena.com/product.asp?item=AH4237H&name=Greek+Kopis (in two models with wood and horn grips). That's a raised rib on the blade, not a fuller - I like how Deepeeka did the blade. The guard and grip is a bit fugly, but this looks like it has real potential as a project blade. Ah, great info, thanks, I never knew what a ricasso was. I was actually looking to buy this one sometime: kultofathena.com/product.asp?item=AK008I prefer that look over those other two, and I saw a nice review on it on Youtube by Skallagrim as well, it seems really tough (especially good since I don't intend to hit anything with it, so it should last forever). Maybe it's not 100% historically accurate, but I do like it. One part I do like from the movie sword is the handle. No spot for catching a blade but whatever, I don't think that little stick thingy on the kopis I listed is for doing that either, I read someone say it's probably for protection while unsheathing it, somehow. Also, btw Timo, you recommended this then? www.coldsteel.com/products/spears/assegai-with-long-shaft.htmlYou said it would be a good one-handed practice Dory? That looks aesthetically pleasing to me. I don't mind it not having a butt-spike. EDIT: Actually I found that same one on E-bay for almost half the price (the new Cold Steel ones are out of stock): www.ebay.com/itm/Cold-Steel-Assegai-Spear-SK-5-Medium-Carbon-With-Long-American-Ash-Shaft-95ES/332452177704?epid=1100413181&hash=item4d67b1a728:g:0QkAAOSwySVaDd5Y
|
|
|
Post by antoine99 on Dec 19, 2017 23:36:57 GMT
The spearhead seemed a bit small though maybe. From the photo, it looks like it has about 4.5" of edge, which is reasonable (4-8" of edge seems to be usual). The fat haft will make it look a little smaller. I don't think they made any more effort to make the spear historically accurate than their swords and helmets. The movie versions aim to match the comic versions, and the cheap replicas aim to match the movie versions. Given all that, one could still say that it's meant to be a dory. One could also say it's just a fantasy spear (given the other fantasy gear in the comic). Or you could say, if you have a real Dory, it will look just as badass (if not more) than the movie spear They took some liberties to show off the individual actors though, especially not wearing any chest armor, I think they said they wanted them to look tough and show how strong they are. Also they said they knocked their helmets off frequently so you could distinguish between them. But what do you think about that sword they use? Would it be practical if it was real? it looks strange, a real kopis I assume would be much better (probably obvious since it's not fantasy lol). It looks nothing like a xiphos so nevermind that.
|
|
|
Post by antoine99 on Dec 19, 2017 19:41:45 GMT
You should take a look at Sir William Hopeās āNew Method of Fencingā. There must be a pdf out there or at least a free text. It helped my fencing tremendously and even sword and shield ā any type of sword and shield. I agree, the upwards thrust from below is one of the hardest attacks to parry. Hope's method gives you an easy to follow strategy to deal with any attack, though, may it be thrusts or cuts. And remember, while he attacks on the low line, you also threaten him on the high line. Also it is easier to parry from high downwards than the other way around. Then again, of course there are tricks like this, too: www.abnewswire.com/uploads/4fe2abb45291eddabcda7f0d42624a57.jpgThanks I like those medieval-style training pictures, they look so calm and happy I just thought of something about my original topic; is the spear used in 300 actually supposed to be (or at least represent) a Dory? I looked at some clips and judging by the height of the spear relative to the height of the men it looks more or less correct. The spearhead seemed a bit small though maybe. I'm wondering because of the sword they use, which is fantasy (I think), but still looks pretty good. I actually wanted to buy one after watching Skallagrim's budget swords in the $150ish range, one of them was that sword, but they apparently don't offer them anymore, or the ones they have are blunt and/or munitions grade. Anyway I'd probably rather have a Kopis since it looks vaguely similar and is actually real. But first I'll probably get the spear somehow.
|
|
|
Post by antoine99 on Dec 18, 2017 2:26:05 GMT
How would you block/parry something like that thrust though? From a sword I mean, for example a Roman thrusting up. Just thinking about it, it seems hopeless. It looks like you got the idea, but not completely hopeless. I donāt worry about cuts as they are fairly easy to block compared to a thrust. I found that out stick fighting. I do fear a thrust as they come fast and are hard to block. A cut is a two count exercise while a thrust is one. Fast reflexes and outstanding foot work are about the best defense. I do like a shield if no more than a buckler. The argument concerning cuts vs thrusts is age old and still going on. There are times when one would be preferred over the other, but generally speaking I find a thrust will get through when a cut wonāt. Youād be surprised the adverse effect clothes have on cutting. Using a gallon heavy duty plastic jug Iāve had a single rug prevent my katana from cutting, the jug did show trauma. With the same type of jug Iāve gone through six layers of rugs before completely penetrating the jug with a thrusting sword. Yeah, for example I've never done HEMA or sparred or anything, and I at least have a basic idea of what to do to counter a slashing blow. I would probably fail being completely inexperienced but I'd have a chance. With a thrust though, lol.
|
|
|
Post by antoine99 on Dec 17, 2017 22:51:23 GMT
I reckon there are countless techniques for a spear. I hear the Zulus used short hafts that they thrust upwards from under their shields. While I donāt doubt that Iāve seen Zulu photos of them with spears longer than the man and a shield larger than the spearman. Iāve also seen photos of them with shields more the size of a buckler. I have a short spear that my buckler and heater shield will hide and I feel comfortable with an underhand thrust using a hammer grip with it. In fact that feels the most natural. I have a Chinese spear that feels best in both hands and thrusting with a hand shake grip as I do with my European spear. As for power, sword or spear, an upward thrust will give power and often is harder parry, but can be rather difficult to execute with a long spear. When giving a thrust I will step in. Itās surprising how much more energy those legs will create. I see, I was for some reason just thinking of a perfectly straight mid-line thrust with an underhand grip. How would you block/parry something like that thrust though? From a sword I mean, for example a Roman thrusting up. Just thinking about it, it seems hopeless. I have no idea what I'd do (besides cry). I mean like in a duel-type scenario, otherwise you'd probably have a shield. An actual thrust like that during battle conditions (where you are trying to survive and kill people) I would assume is very strong and quick.
|
|
|
Post by antoine99 on Dec 17, 2017 22:25:32 GMT
I see, great info, thanks! I'm just trying to be extra cautious.
|
|
|
Post by antoine99 on Dec 17, 2017 22:04:53 GMT
If you want to hit hard, swing upwards, using hips and lats. Then you have the stable hammer grip. The straight forward thrust is weaker anyways, using the front delts and triceps, mainly. Impact wonāt be that hard, really, unless you really twist the hips through and angle the elbow sideways or shrug up the trapezius. Iād use the straight forwards thrust for quick, light jabs only, these shouldnāt hurt the wrist too much. Makes sense, thanks
|
|
|
Post by antoine99 on Dec 17, 2017 21:42:36 GMT
I`ve been thrusting at my hanging bag and pells with sticks and swords using a hammer grip for quite some time know and despite not having the healthiest wrists I never had a problem with that. According to modern recreationists, though, swords should be held much like a toothbrush somehow and even grabbed by the pommel only while thrusting ā because of superior body mechanics and whatnot, lol. Also you wouldn`t need to strike with full power in all attacks - the weight and momentum of the spear will do the job just fine. Overpenetrating could be a bigger problem than not penetrating at all. Ah alright, thanks. I suppose in my case it doesn't really matter since I don't plan to stab anything, and using that broken wrist position with swords feels pretty awkward anyway so I don't do it. I only have a gladius, so I'm practicing thrusting with that sort of hammer grip, but not straight out, more up like I think Legionaries do in formation so the balance is ok (I don't hit anything with the gladius either). I tried the broken wrist position grip just to see what not to do and tried to use the gladius like a regular sword and it felt very wrong. Thrusting low confuses me though since you are forced more into that grip. How would that work, do I just hold my arm straight down, then keep it straight and swing it up? Like the exact opposite of an icepick attack? I watched this video and it seems like some of these attacks do use the broken wrist position, if you encounter armor and don't penetrate, or otherwise hit something hard: Here's the broken wrist video:
|
|
|
Post by antoine99 on Dec 17, 2017 20:48:12 GMT
Oh by the way, about using spears, I watched a video about the "broken wrist" position on swords (not spears) where the person describes how not to thrust with a sword, which is ironically exactly the way I picture you are supposed to thrust underhand with a spear, is it different somehow for a spear, as in not as dangerous? In the video he describes a sort of rigid hammer grip with sword thrusts that you are not supposed to use, since if you hit something your wrist would potentially get injured or something over time.
I'm aware of the overhand grip/thrust but I'm wondering about the underhand position, specifically for one-handed spears. I can't really imagine any other way to hold a spear underhanded, maybe back then they didn't really care about that? Especially since it might be something that would develop over time?
Thanks again for all the comments everyone, learned a lot of stuff.
|
|
|
Post by antoine99 on Dec 17, 2017 5:28:16 GMT
Lol, the way that thing drooped. Yeah I'd never use one of those, it would be pointless, I wouldn't be able to move it in my house at all
|
|
|
Post by antoine99 on Dec 17, 2017 4:30:45 GMT
Not being familiar with a dory spear I looked it up. Those suckers were 7-9ā in length, had a 2ā dia. haft, and weighed up to 4 lb. While the design appeals to your eye and imagination are you sure you really want to handle that? MRL has the parts you could use as MOK stated and during their Christmas sale is offering a 15% discount. Regularly with the promo code itās 10%. You can probably obtain the haft locally and save as the shipping on that might be high due to the length. CS spears, being stamped, donāt have the eye appeal of other spears but are excellent and I dare say sharper than what else is out there. Your idea of buying a long wooden pole for practice is an excellent one. The Chinese consider the bo the basis of all pole weapons and teach that first. I learned the bo and have to agree. Yeah, I was surprised to see how long they were. Why is there such a huge variation though, 7-9 feet, 2 feet is a lot of difference isn't it? I thought there was a longer, separate spear called the sarissa that was longer? Or is the huge variation because historians aren't really sure how long they were in reality and this covers all the possibilities? Also yes, I'd be totally fine handling that (mentally I mean, lol), I want to capture the feel of it and don't want to make it easier, since there's even some strength to be gained. I would make a full weight Aspis if I could, maybe I'll make a simulated shield that's even heavier.
|
|
|
Post by antoine99 on Dec 17, 2017 1:18:19 GMT
So to more or less simulate the thickness of a real Dory, a 20mm thick (around 0.7-0.8 inches) wooden (ash) pole would do? I think I got the length down, it seems to vary, so 7 feet is just fine for me.
I might actually get a thicker piece to increase the weight.
|
|
|
Post by antoine99 on Dec 16, 2017 23:27:20 GMT
No no it's ok, I'm just trying to gather as much info as I can to make an informed decision. I hadn't considered point of balance either. I think it's obvious but I should mention I plan to train with it 1 handed.
|
|
|
Post by antoine99 on Dec 16, 2017 22:55:03 GMT
I've been looking up other random spears, and Cold Steel has some interesting (and cheapish) models, not a Dory, but pretty good looking. I know lots of people don't like CS but they are supposed to at least be pretty tough, and since I don't intend to test cut (stab) anything, I guess it's fine. This one is a perfect 83 inches total: www.coldsteel.com/maa-european-boar-spear.html81 inches, but looks better (aesthetically) IMO, and $50 cheaper: www.coldsteel.com/maa-classic-leaf-shape-spear.htmlBoth spearheads are 1055 high carbon They have no butt-spike, but in my case, I'm more likely to severely injure my floor with it. Also the European spear looks great too. Of course they're out of stock, maybe they will turn up later or elsewhere.
|
|
|
Post by antoine99 on Dec 16, 2017 22:08:12 GMT
Ah, I see. But about the weight, I'm 5 feet 11 inches, and 140 pounds, so clearly I'm no bodybuilder, lol, and I've actually picked up a 32 pound free weight (not quite 44 pounds, but still) and held it like you would hold a scutum, not completely loose but raised, it's hard to explain, and it was very manageable, even for me, but of course I tired quickly, but I assume those guys would have MUCH less trouble, no? Just to build muscle in a fun way. Unless you mean the size, maybe the Romans found an innovative way to increase the weight, maybe by hanging metal off the shield or something.
Also yes, I'm surprised there are so few of those spears for sale, I would have thought that the primary weapon of the famed Greek phalanxes would be pretty popular. Maybe shipping issues due to size.
|
|