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Post by Deleted on Apr 21, 2009 13:08:30 GMT
Hi, all, I have become interested in buying a sabre/cutlass of some sort, and stumbled across this: www.sarcoinc.com/edged-weapons.htmlpic here: www.sarcoinc.com/images/swrd15.jpgDoes anyone have any experience with these? They seem like a good deal, but I don't know about its construction/durability. I'm looking to menace bottles, noodles, and maybe mats or newsprint. Thanks in advance. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 21, 2009 14:01:08 GMT
I don't know if the Patton sword's going to be any good at cutting; I think it is primarily a thruster. I don't even think you can sharpen it, but our resident expert on weapons of this era, Hotspur, could certainly fill you in as he owns one.
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Post by hotspur on Apr 21, 2009 14:17:11 GMT
Ben Sweet, of the SFI and myArmoury forums likes the Windlass more than the Sarco offering. Both pale in consideration to an original. Neither of the two reproductions are going to be very satisfactory for cutting bulkier targets. Even an original is going to be tough to get through mats. You will need a goodly sharp sharp to make it through even lighter stuff. Keep in mind that water weighs a pound per pint.
The Sarco price is attractive for what you will get.
I have never sharpened my Windlass but even at its old price of $129, I have always felt it was a great buy. These all are quite narrow blades and have just never felt the need to strain the blade, as I have so many other options in the stable. I do know an anecdote of someone that cuts smaller bamboo and I know someone here has posted videos of someone cutting bottles with a reproduction 1840 nco. Milk or water bottles are fairly thin. Mats are often not equal as well. Of both Mugen Dachi tatami and Bugei wara (those are easier to cut), neither have had a lot of success with narrow blades. I know my Patton from Windlass makes its weight easy to paw, it really fails miserably compared to the feel of an original.
I'd say get it if the appearance is easy on your eyes but its not really a cutter at all. Windlass may offer sharpening, I know the Sarco does not.
Cheers
Hotspur; Run Patton as a search term over at myArmoury
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Post by Deleted on Apr 21, 2009 14:30:50 GMT
Thanks, guys! I like the look of the sword, but if it's not going to cut, it's probably not worth it for me. I appreciate the clarification.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 22, 2009 16:12:35 GMT
Thanks for clearing that up, Glen.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 22, 2009 18:44:21 GMT
If you are curious to know more about why Patton designed his "1913" sabre the way he did, you need to read his manual on the subject - www.pattonhq.com/saber.htmlHis concepts are based on the supremacy of the point thrust over all other attacks. This idea was never tested extensively in combat and was not universally accepted. The British had already shifted in that direction, eventually adopting the MK II "1908" sabre, which had a straight blade, spear point and with only the last 8 inches sharpened on both edges. In my opinion the debate between cut or thrust was never fully reconciled because of the demise of the use of the sabre in battle. |
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Post by hotspur on Apr 23, 2009 1:34:48 GMT
I honestly think there was more than the English sword that prompted his (and the military) tactical explanation for the sword type. England was late in the game as well. Of quite a few European swords of the late 19th century were thought quite effective, with straight swords being almost universal by the turn of the century. We see curved swords continuing for mounted artillery and monted infantry but the "shock troops" have prefered long straight swords way back (way back) in history. At any rate, Patton was a participant in the 1912 Stockholm olympics games and didn't do that awfully well in the pentathalon but was fascinated with fencing and travelled with his wife after the games closed, staying in Europe and training with (ummm what's his name) a master of swordsmanship and tactics. Note this extreme likeness to the 1913 on this page of late 19th century swords. bjorn.foxtail.nu/h_svenska_armen.htmThe English design is truer in form to the Spanish swords. If you will notice several other countries have the fuller to the spine but it is those particular Swedish swords that most resemble the Patton blade form. Germanic states as well had some very similar traits but the resemblence between Patton's sword is a bit uncanny and what he must have been familiar with were the Swedish examples. It is often remarked that the Patton sword was due to the English sword but in truth, many had been using the genre for decades before adopted by England. Juan Perez's good pages are worth looking at, even his other sections regarding evolution during the eighteenth and nineteenth centuries. bermudas.ls.fi.upm.es/~pedro/tropacab3_e.htmThen there are Jean Bincks pages. users.skynet.be/euro-swords/Cheers Hotspur; The Patton HQ is another good standard siteP.S. Horse Marines in China with shaggy horses and plated basket Pattons. It is an excellent history.   |
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