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Post by Deleted on Apr 1, 2009 4:47:48 GMT
So, I bought this through my sensei: www.centurymartialarts.com/Martial_Arts_Weapons/Bos/White_Wax_Straight_Bo.aspxIt was never anywhere near as flexible as this: I would be grateful if that alone were explained... So, I tried striking the ground the way this guy does a few times: And I've done it before, but this time I got this: So, should this have happened?I see a few possibilities: 1. I was not actually sold a white wax wood staff. 2. I shouldn't have been hitting in against the ground in the first place. 3. It was weakened through some sort of neglect on my part. (It was left in my car all winter because martial arts weapons aren't allowed into the dorms.) 4. It is white wax wood, but there was something wrong with it that weakened it and caused the break. I would say that I never should have used it like that in the first place, except that the guy in the video did on a hard gym floor. And because of the way the bo in the example video behaved, it seems to me that I may have never even had a proper piece of white wax wood...Oh, and in the last picture, you can see what I wouldn't expect to be, but which actually might be, some sort of fatal flaw in the wood. So...halp?
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Post by Deleted on Apr 1, 2009 6:00:07 GMT
Steve: I don't think that is a waxwood staff. Could you since it is broken cut off a section at the non broken end of the staff and take a picture of it. This looks more like a mislabelling, it looks like that fake white oak that is often passed off as the real thing, That strange brown discolouration is that on both sections of the break? Waxwood is very flexible and hard, it should not split like that, even striking the floor with it. It is an aspect of many chinese martial arts that they strike the floor during kata.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 1, 2009 6:36:54 GMT
It is however possible that having left the staff in the car all winter long might have done something to the staff too. I have seen wooden items (primarily bows) that have been left in a car during cold weather over a long period of time then used - only to have the wood crack and split (with a result much like what is seen in the OP's photos).
I'm no expert on wood though so it might be that its also not wax wood but then could tell the difference between wax wood and ash if i had to look at a picture.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 1, 2009 6:44:57 GMT
Do be so sad Stevepoppers. I typically go though a rattan sword every six weeks. It is something I am rather proud to tell other fighters because it means I an practicing often and hitting hard. I usually buy 3 or 4 staves at a time. They cost about $20 each. I don't care about the cost so much as it is a pain to shape a handle every few weeks, wrap it with strapping tape and then make a padded thrusting tip. It usually takes about an hour to get it perfect.
I do think keeping the bow in your car all winter had an effect. Your next bow, you may consider dunking the ends in water every week and let it absorb some water. Moist wood stays more flexible. It also is a little heavier.
I remember the first time a cracked a wooden bow. That was a bummer. Luckily it was still under warranty. The fact is that wood does degrade and it is imperfect. The density is not consistent and their can be hollows in the wood. It is just the nature of wood.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 1, 2009 6:53:34 GMT
How's that? I'm not sure what exactly you're looking for, but that discoloration is only cosmetic. I just got a knife and took a few shavings to check. I could get a better pic, but my camera's on the fritz, so it would take a day or two. Just webcam for now. And which discoloration are you asking about? The one near the edge or the one deeper within the wood? Either way, I think they're both on both pieces.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 1, 2009 7:26:47 GMT
In the last picture of the first post on the left hand side of the broken section there is a brown discolouration which looks strange to my eyes. Is the shaft completely smooth? I stand by my statement that that isn't waxwood.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 1, 2009 8:16:22 GMT
Well, the shaft of the staff was always completely smooth as I would call it. A few knots in the wood that I would call natural. Actually, at the proper angle, light reveals the tiny grooves from the lathe.
The brown thing...it's like a cylinder, with tiny compartments separated by...well I guess it'd have to be wood, wouldn't it? but it's thin as a membrane...I found this pretty odd.
So, what does all this mean and how did you come to your conclusion with this info? How will I know if I'm buying the real deal?
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Post by Deleted on Apr 1, 2009 8:40:25 GMT
Can you tell me how old the staff is? As in do you know how long ago it was cut?
white wax wood has characteristics that are not present in what you are describing, especially the lack of flex in the shaft. I think you'll find that your break occurred because of that discolouration it looks like some sort of wood rot. White wax wood would not break like that from being slapped against the floor. Wax wood is extremely durable and can be bent to a pretty acute angle without even giving an indication of snapping. Is the staff coated with any sort of protective coat? Or is it natural finish? If it is natural finish does it feel waxy to the touch?
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Post by Deleted on Apr 1, 2009 8:56:12 GMT
I couldn't say when it was cut. I just picked it out of the Century catalog because I'd heard of how amazing white wax wood is.
This staff was no more flexible than any other stick I could find in the woods. That's probably the defining quality here. Yeah, it has some sealant of something on it. It's all nice and smooth like furniture.
I don't know about calling it wood rot, because it broke like any other stick would.
I don't know where you are, but it's past 5am where I am, so I think I must go now. I'll get back to this tomorrow, and I sincerely appreciate you taking the time to help me out (what is for me, at least) so late.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 1, 2009 9:20:25 GMT
I'm just calling it how I see it from the picture. Most chinese martial artists will tell you that you should leave waxwood in it's natural state and not seal it or oil it or anything because of the properties of the wood. The stick looks like fake white oak, but again that is just my opinion without having the staff in front of me.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 1, 2009 20:28:42 GMT
steve, i too once have the exact same bo from century. mine eventually broke from use too, but it's because it was left exposed outside for a considerable amount of time. judging by the condition of the end of you staff, you too seem like the type of guy who would, like i did, go out and hit the staff around at some trees. wood dries out, that's just what happens. when hitting the staff, if too much pressure is put on a singl point, and not spread along the length of the shaft (like when it hits the ground in the video) then it can cause the drying wood to crack. waxwood is still wood. it's not impervious and if its not treated it can break. idk as to whether or not century sells phony wax wood, but i think it's just the result of over-use. also, that brown thing it the wood core. that's not unusual. if the tree were still alive, that's where nutrients would go up into the branches.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 2, 2009 0:25:06 GMT
I'm going to go with it not being wax wood, since it never had the characteristics of wax wood. Moving forward, where can I find a real white wax wood staff? Everything I can find has the same thing for sale. I remember Cold Steel had one, but it seems to be discontinued. I can't find it on their site.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 2, 2009 1:14:03 GMT
there are a few places on the net that claim to sell waxwood staves, however I would find a dedicated chinese martial arts store, maybe try contacting this guy; www.shaolincom.com/Shaolin_Chi_Mantis/weaponry-S.htmlUnless you know what you are looking for, it is pretty hard to pick it from a photo what is the genuine article and what isn't.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 2, 2009 4:31:12 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Apr 8, 2009 23:54:08 GMT
dood, i would just get a length of some quarter inch thick walled inch and a half thick square steel tubing or thick walled round pipe. that wont break......on people. that'd be dadgum brutal. however if you want to use a traditional weight and material yea go for the wood. me, id take the steel any day.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 16, 2009 23:40:24 GMT
I actually do occasionally use a steel bar. Not something I'd like to use all the time, you see...
As for the new staff, I'm pretty happy with it. It's unfinished and very smooth, so grip is a slight issue. The finish on the other made it sort of "sticky," which was helpful in that regard. It's definitely more flexible and can take blows to the ground without complaint as far as I can tell. Overall, I'm quite happy with it. Time will tell it's true value.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 17, 2009 17:06:33 GMT
At one point BUDK was selling white wax staves if I remember correctly, or was that MRL? It was one of those cataloguers...they sold them in 4' and 6' staves.
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