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Post by Deleted on Feb 23, 2009 20:34:10 GMT
Back on topic...a shinwa sword is the only case of delamination I have come across from modern steel. And even their TH blades are soft and dull easily. They can be okayish swords...but there certainly is MUCH better at even half the price of those.
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SlayerofDarkness
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Post by SlayerofDarkness on Feb 23, 2009 20:35:47 GMT
What exactly is 'delamination'? Sorry, Napalm, you're still the master of sword terms between the two of us. -Slayer
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Post by Deleted on Feb 23, 2009 20:40:13 GMT
It's when laminated steel comes apart along where the laminated steels are layered. So basically you see bubbles in your steel...or at worst flakes coming off.
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Post by randomnobody on Feb 23, 2009 20:41:02 GMT
Delamination? Really? Yikes, did you have pics and such? Oh, delamination is when the "folds" or what have you separate in a blade. Generally a bad thing. Cold Napalm beat me to it, but there you have it.
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Marc Ridgeway
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Post by Marc Ridgeway on Feb 23, 2009 20:42:51 GMT
Back on topic...a shinwa sword is the only case of delamination I have come across from modern steel. And even their TH blades are soft and dull easily. They can be okayish swords...but there certainly is MUCH better at even half the price of those. I have seen delamination on a couple of Cheness... and on a Hanwei... and have heard of it on other cheap "damascus" swords... Slayer , delamination is when the forge welds on a pattern welded (folded) or laminated blade fail.... oops hey guys... beat me to it
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SlayerofDarkness
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Post by SlayerofDarkness on Feb 23, 2009 20:46:35 GMT
Another good reason NOT to get 'damascus' swords! I never did like them, anyway...
thanks for the info, guys. That's one step closer to having the ultimate sword knowledge! Only 29 trillion steps to go..... ;D ;D ;D
-Slayer
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slav
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Post by slav on Feb 23, 2009 21:35:01 GMT
Yeah, forget folded low-end swords. Folding/laminating (at least the cheap kind) is completely unnecessary since the advent and common use of modern steels in monosteel. The only reason it is done is for a more interesting and "authentic" touch, but IMO this looks nothing like traditionally folded tamahagane; more like a two toned cluster-f. Even Cheness recommends that their folded lines be used only for display and light cutting. That should tell you something.
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admin
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Post by admin on Feb 24, 2009 7:24:24 GMT
The problem is though that companies like Shinwa make them because that is what newbies want... They always hear about how a Katana is folded 50,000,000 times or whatever (most don't realize that it's the number of layers that can be high, not actual folds) and so they think that any sword that is folded or 'damascus' is the better buy... Something that I have tried to clear up in this obscure SBG article here: www.sword-buyers-guide.com/authentic-samurai-sword.html- Paul
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Post by Deleted on Feb 24, 2009 7:26:40 GMT
Hey where can I get one of those katanas that were folded 50,000,000 times, Paul?! Can it cut through iron?
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Post by shadowhowler on Feb 24, 2009 12:24:58 GMT
Hey where can I get one of those katanas that were folded 50,000,000 times, Paul?! Can it cut through iron? Don't make me hurt you...
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Post by Deleted on Feb 24, 2009 12:41:56 GMT
Hey! I want one of those swords too..."There can be only one!" and it doesn't like Shinwa or UC are gonna make it..lol.
P.S. I've been involved in many forums and this is, by far, the best at moderating itself. You guys do an awesome job of downplaying drama and nipping potential "text wars" as soon as the first shot is fired. Furthermore, the attitude on this forum is friendly and conducive to learning, making this a "homey" place even for noobies. I am very impressed with all of you and your discipline. WELL DONE SBG FORUMITES!
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Post by shadowhowler on Feb 24, 2009 12:45:30 GMT
We have our share of text wars... anywhere you have people who are passionate about something... you are going to have people who disagree, passionately. For the most part, tho, I think we do a good job at remembering that, at the end of the day, we are all fans/collectors/hobbyists because we all share the same love... and that keeps us together more then it drives us apart. ;D
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SlayerofDarkness
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Post by SlayerofDarkness on Feb 24, 2009 15:18:52 GMT
Well said!
-Slayer
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Post by kidcasanova on Feb 24, 2009 17:34:39 GMT
We have our share of text wars... anywhere you have people who are passionate about something... you are going to have people who disagree, passionately. For the most part, tho, I think we do a good job at remembering that, at the end of the day, we are all fans/collectors/hobbyists because we all share the same love... and that keeps us together more then it drives us apart. ;D Except for those damned Katana guys....we've gotta get rid of them somehow...ruining the bloody forum....grumble grumble.
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SlayerofDarkness
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Post by SlayerofDarkness on Feb 24, 2009 17:44:02 GMT
HAHA!!! Oh, wait.. I'm on both sides... What ever shall I do? ;D -Slayer
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Post by Deleted on Mar 11, 2009 19:28:45 GMT
If those are Shinwa kats that budk sells (with names like Dark Orient sword and such) - I may be mistaken but I think those swords have 'finely tempered stainless steel' blades as advertised. Looks alot like a Masahiro I had; to the untrained eye I guess it would be difficult to tell the difference.
Its your money, spend it how you will- your personal feelings about it may differ from what you've read here.
Edited to add: Since this was the last post of the thread, I won't spam with another- just wanted to say that I picked up a budk catalog last night and noticed something of interest.
In an ad for a Shinwa kat (and there are a few, some with names like Emperor or Warrior) they state that the blade is made of 1060 carbon stainless steel. Here's my question- can it be 1060 and stainless? If so, how does the average sword buyer tell the difference? The swords go for $89 or so, same price as their 'well-made, hand-forged' stainless pieces. Then there's the Shinwa Ninja-to which retails for $289. Go figure, its budk.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 28, 2010 0:04:12 GMT
So would a Shinwa blade for about 33 dollars be worth it, or should I just jump for an oversized machete? The only thing specifically mentioned is that it's 'hand-forged,' so I have no idea if it's folded or not, which I'm kind of hoping isn't the case from what I've read. Here's the link: www.cutlerywholesaler.com/naginata-hand-forged-carbon-steel-blade.aspx
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Post by stromloswordsusa on Apr 28, 2010 2:22:46 GMT
I have got in a few of the United Black 1045 katana swords, and from a mostly military and euro fan I was quite impressed for the price. I have cut with one of them and never flubbed a bottle yet. Also I know I saw a few reviews a month or so ago done here, maybe the index needs updating...
Cheers,
Rob
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Dom T.
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Post by Dom T. on Apr 28, 2010 2:26:45 GMT
So would a Shinwa blade for about 33 dollars be worth it, or should I just jump for an oversized machete? The only thing specifically mentioned is that it's 'hand-forged,' so I have no idea if it's folded or not, which I'm kind of hoping isn't the case from what I've read. Here's the link: www.cutlerywholesaler.com/naginata-hand-forged-carbon-steel-blade.aspxWhoa, this thread has totally been risen from the dead. Uh, hand forged doesn't mean too much, imo. Usually somethin' ain't folded unless it says it's folded, especially with those cheaper things. They seem to like to brag about that. With that price (and looking at the pic and descr.), I don't think it's going to be something you'd be happy with after buying it. AVOID THE BUYER'S REMORSE! (0_0) Hm... it's not really a naginata, as far as... uh, 'correctness' goes. Like, not at all. They just say 'carbon steel' instead of what carbon steel it actually is, so it could be 1060, 1045, or something with even less carbon content. I'm willing to bet it's the latter. Also the heat-treat would probably be bad. Hell, they don't even tell you the length of the blade, only the total length. Also... that 'imitation FISH skin' for the sheath.... That sounds... icky. I'm no sword expert, but I'd stay away from cheap brand-less sword-like objects, even if they say 'carbon steel'. Only thing I can think of that's decent sub $100 is a kat from Musashi or Masahiro. None of them would be 33 dollars. The cheapest Musashi is like $60, if I remember correctly. And it isn't exactly glamorous. $33, I think getting a machete would be a safer bet. At least it'd do its job. 'Pparently Cold Steel machetes aren't that bad: www.trueswords.com/cold-steel-machete-c-70_80.htmlI don't think anybody gets anything sword-like remotely correct for 'round $30. Hope that'll kinda help 'til someone more knowledgeable comes along. I have got in a few of the United Black 1045 katana swords, and from a mostly military and euro fan I was quite impressed for the price. I have cut with one of them and never flubbed a bottle yet. Also I know I saw a few reviews a month or so ago done here, maybe the index needs updating... Cheers, Rob Yeah, 1045 ain't bad. Have a pretty little Musashi, she's kinda my first sword, and I've cut bottles and light backyard cutting sorta things no problem. Hell, the biggest problem was my alignment... hm... haven't cut wit' 'er in awhile.... And yeah, the index really needs updating. I don't think it's been updated since... February?
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Post by Deleted on Apr 28, 2010 16:50:43 GMT
A while back I bought a Shinwa pattern-welded Odachi from BudK, when it arrived, it was a Masahiro, reasonably sharp, I brought it up to shaving and cut bottles with it, it handled quite well and seems to be a good sword After experiencing what an Odachi should handle like, I put my Sephiroth sword in a consignment shop. It was an SLO anyway:( I has also ordered 2 UC carbon steel (1045?) Katanas from BudK, they were the sharpest swords I had ever received I touched them up to maximum sharpness, and they are among my best 3 bottle cutting swords ;D I think I paid in the $70.00 range for them. I would recommend them to anybody for mat and bottle cutting, their flat grind seems to cut better than my other swords that have an appleseed edge
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