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Post by Deleted on Jan 6, 2009 22:58:41 GMT
Well, I went ahead and picked up the two bare Kris Cutlery blades that Mark Mowrey was selling in the classified section. I had originally considered buying them awhile back, but then started making my own blades, and decided that I'd pass. Recently however, my two nephews have decided they'd be interested in taking classes with my Sensei. In light of that, I decided to pick these swords up and see what there was to see =). As neither Mark or I are sure whether these blades are differentially hardened or not, the first thing I'll be doing is a test swipe with some ferric chloride to test. I'm hoping that they are, but if they aren't that may work out as well. After that, I'll begin work on straightening the waves, and repairing the tip of the damaged blade. Once that's done I'll determine whether or not it's worth it for me to continue with mount work (mostly a matter of whether or not my nephews show any dedication lol). If they are in fact DH blades, I may go ahead and shorten one, then create a daisho for my wife. If they aren't, I'll probably sell them. I'm sure some of you might be interested in a good deal on repaired, polished, and sharpened blades =). If they do end up being sold...I can also always offer a shortening service for whomever purchases them...so they can make their own daisho. Anyhow, here's the pictures as posted by Mark in his two threads. Once I receive the blades I'll be taking some more and posting them up as I go =). Pictures of the one with the damaged tip. I'm not precisely sure how I'll go about repairing this one as I haven't held it yet. I'm thinking though that it may require a reworking of the entire kissaki area, including the shinogi ji up to that point. I would like the tips to match on both blades.I can almost see the faintest line of a hamon in this picture. It's very tough to tell though whether it's hamon, or reflections. The 5160 that I believe these blades are made of often doesn't show a lot of hamon though...so again, we'll just have to see =).The blade on the left has quite an attractive profile. As I said, I'll probably rework the other blade to more closely match. I don't know which has the damaged tip lol.Here you can see some of the repair work I'll be doing on both blades. Slight pitting, and overall foundation repair and sharpening are top on the list.Overall profile.These are just shots of the custom tsuba Mark had made for these swords. I may or may not be using them. If I don't, I'll clean them both up and offer them for sale for a reasonable price.Anyhow...as you can see, lots of work to do, even before any mounting can begin. I really, REALLY am hoping they're DH lol. But like I said...even if they aren't they might make good beater blades for my nephews...depending on their level of commitment to training. I'll keep you guys posted =). Cris
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slav
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Post by slav on Jan 6, 2009 23:24:22 GMT
They are DH. All KC 5160 blades are. It takes a bit of technique to get the KC hamon to come out right, but it is there. Here are a few shots of KC blades that I have etched: KC 29 bare blade, just like yours (mounted): KC 29A: Hira: All of these blades showed little to no trace of a hamon before etching.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 6, 2009 23:31:48 GMT
I've seen those pictures before Slav =). You do great work getting the 5160 to show what hamon is there. The only other person I know who's actively pursuing that is Brian VanSpeybreock. He's using other methods entirely though.
On these, they're actually a 25" blade rather than 29". I called Kris Cutlery and asked them over to this post to take a look and tell me what they could. I was incredibly impressed when they agreed. Everyone I've ever dealt with at Kris Cutlery has been top notch in the customer service arena. Anyhow, on the phone the woman told me that the only 25" blades they sold were in fact 1060, but that they were differentially hardened as you said. I'm sure now it will come out in the polish and etch. I can't wait to see how they turn out if I can get the foundation set right, and the blade polished out properly!
Cris
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slav
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Post by slav on Jan 6, 2009 23:41:17 GMT
Neat! An older model KC 1060 blade w/o bo-hi...that's rare. You probably talked to Cristina, and yes she is great!
BTW, is Brian VS still around? I noticed that his Galloglas site has been down for quite a while. Does he have a new site, or anywhere that he can be seen/reached?
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Post by Deleted on Jan 8, 2009 22:52:53 GMT
Well, they arrived today, packaged beautifully. Everything was very much as represented in the pictures (thanks Mark =D). The only thing I wasn't expecting...which I should have been because it's IN the pictures lol...is the VERY short kissaki. I mean, literally like 3/8" lol. Should be easily fixed though, and in the process I may be able to put a real yokote on the blades.
We'll see =).
Other plans including raising the shinogi some...as well as narrowing the slope of the shinogi ji to the mune (alternative to bo-hi and something I prefer structurally) as these things are BEEFY!! Bare blade with habaki weight is 1lb 11oz for the good one and 1lb 10oz for the damaged one. This is for a 25" nagasa blade. I'll also be fixing the centerline of the mune (it's pretty wavy)...and probably making new habaki for them as these are very, very rough.
Anyhow, going to get settled, clean them up...then take some baseline pictures. I'll post them up later this evening.
Cris
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SlayerofDarkness
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Post by SlayerofDarkness on Jan 8, 2009 22:57:41 GMT
Man I wish I was one of your nephews....they're some lucky guys.
I look forward to seeing your modifications, Cris; hey look! Cris is working on a Kris, lol!
(Ok, ok, that was lame...I'll go sulk in a dark, dirty, sword-deprived corner now...)
;D ;D ;D
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Post by Deleted on Jan 8, 2009 23:27:54 GMT
Man I wish I was one of your nephews....they're some lucky guys. I look forward to seeing your modifications, Cris; hey look! Cris is working on a Kris, lol! (Ok, ok, that was lame...I'll go sulk in a dark, dirty, sword-deprived corner now...) ;D ;D ;D LOL well, like I said, if they are in fact DH, and they clean up nice and crisp like I'm hoping...I may shorten one and set them up as a tonbo themed daisho set for my wife. The shortness of the blades kind of disqualifies them for anything other than a very slightly built teen, or a woman =). A nephew you might be...but my wife you're not =p. Either that or they may go for sale...not entirely sure. Oh also...on a side note... I'm really surprised at the lightness of the tsuba. The cut quality is even nicer than the pictures (going to need very minimal cleanup on the rough one), and other than a pretty heavy random grind mark on the clean one...it's absolutely beautiful. Much nicer than I expected. The grind mark should clean up on the belt sander as well...so overall I'm pretty happy =). Cris
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slav
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Post by slav on Jan 9, 2009 2:30:51 GMT
After making those modifications, and with a mere 25" nagasa, these sound like they will be ideal Onion/Pickle slicers. You might want to keep one for a bit and see what you can make of a few gallon jugs!
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Post by Deleted on Jan 9, 2009 3:08:40 GMT
Well, I've got them soaking in vinegar now. More on that in a bit...there's some really wierd crap going on in those blades... For now, here's some pictures of things as they sit: Couple pictures of the tip on the good one. As you can see...the kissaki is VERY short lol. Good news is that it's not hardened there, so it'll be relatively easy to extend out.Overall (relatively crappy!) picture of the blades. Nothing special going on here.I'm still not sure why Chinese blades have such odd, odd machi. There is NO benefit to having such a wierd, uneven positioning, and as a matter of fact...it actually makes habaki making more difficult. That will be fixed before I make new habaki.Here you can see a bit better the thickness of the blade. Pretty substantial, but not as thick as I originally thought. Thickness as compared to my PPK is the same at the machi at .250", however the thickness at the 'yokote' area (24" from the machi) of the Kris blade is .220", while the PPK is .190" the same distance away from the machi. I took some time to mount the Kris Cutlery blade with a spare PPK tsuka, tsuba, and fichi/kashira I have, and it simply balances farther out than the PPK, by nearly an inch (4.5" to 5.5"). A lot of meat for such a short blade!Anyhow...on to the etch. They are most definately DH blades. The hamon are simply WIERD though. The blade with the good tip thins down to almost nothing about 4" from the machi. I had to look very closely to realize that it is actually about 1/8"-3/16" in that area. Oddly enough, the other blade is nearly the opposite, with a hamon that starts at 1/2", and grows immediately right to the shinogi, and maintains a long wave the whole length of the blade. If I do end up keeping them and shortening one, it will be the blade with the nicer tip. Both hamon end right at the machi. Now, onto the REALLY wierd part. There are lines of hardness that etch horizontally (with the blade held point down) at about 6" intervals the whole way down both blades. I don't know if this is a function of etching both blades together in the same container (you know, some kind of electrolysis or some such), or if it's actually different levels of hardness in the steel. I cleaned ALL the etch off one blade, and have it etching by itself right now to check. I'll get some pictures of the etch results up later this evening. Anyhow, thanks for following along, and if you guys have any questions...let me know. Cris
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Post by Deleted on Jan 9, 2009 3:12:48 GMT
After making those modifications, and with a mere 25" nagasa, these sound like they will be ideal Onion/Pickle slicers. You might want to keep one for a bit and see what you can make of a few gallon jugs! LOL thanks Slav! Yeah they seem like they might work out nicely...if I can figure out what the hell's going on with the hamon. Besides...I have to lay off the milk jugs for awhile...gotta give you guys time to catch up!! Cris
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Post by Deleted on Jan 9, 2009 6:34:54 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jan 11, 2009 4:37:08 GMT
Well, I spent a couple hours with a file and the blade with the broken tip today...gotta say I'm happy with the results =D. I fixed the tip of course, extending the kissaki and giving the whole thing more of a 'shobu' shape. Then I raised the shinogi line approximately 3/16" (or slightly better lol), sloped the shinogi ji substantially, narrowing the mune by about half in the process. On top of that, I changed the geometry behind the kissaki, and about an inch forward of the habaki to something a little different. This blade has turned into a sort of trial run for the geometry I'm intending to incorporate into my own blades...although I intend to have an even higher shinogi...perhaps as high as 1/4" on a 1 1/4" wide blade. Once this is done and polished I'll likely wrap the handle and do some cutting tests. I think I'll be happy with the results =). Anyhow, here's the required pictures: Bit of a profile shot here. You can see how much I raised the shinogi on this blade (the pictures are both sides of the same blade...flipped in photoshop so as to be more easily compared). Keep in mind also that this is just a very rough file job so I could try my geometry. Final lines need tuned and crisped up still.Comparison of the geometry near the habaki. I kind of like the little 'flat' spot left by the confluence of the edge geometry and the cutout geometry of the shinogi ji.Comparison at the kissaki. This was a decent amount of work. Making everything come together right with a flat file was interesting to say the least lol.Here's some pictures of the 'snakehead' or 'spear tip' created by narrowing the mune in order to properly create a high shinogi. I think the effect is pretty nice, and you can see the rather large difference as compared to the other side, which isn't finished.Top view of the mune. Again, I sort of like the effect made by 'scooping' out the width of the mune. I don't know if this is or isn't a traditional sugata...but I like it regardless! =DAs I said, all in all I'm pretty happy. The blade is already a bit more balanced...and when I finish the other side it should work out pretty nicely. I really can't wait to test how it cuts!! One odd thing I thought I'd mention. The steel felt very soft when I began filing (meaning near the edge...inside where the hamon should be), but after some work it started skating the file a bit. It was somewhat similar to the effect of filing through the sacrificial layer of steel that has lost its carbon in the heat treat forge. Funny thing to happen on a blade that was already basically finished, even if it was finished poorly. Makes me wonder how the hamon will etch out now. I'll keep you guys posted as the blade cleans up. I'm thinking I'm only going to do one blade right now, leaving the other virgin. Then I'll put them both up for sale. This gives the purchaser the option of having me shorten one and reshape it similarly, then buy them as a set...or just purchase one, leaving the other for me to refinish and sell separately. I also worked out a deal with Skip Gardner for a shirisaya mount for the blades if the purchaser so wishes. Cris
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Post by Deleted on Jan 12, 2009 2:51:46 GMT
Hey Cris,
Wow, now I see what you were talking about. Nicely done indeed. I will be eagerly awaiting more updates. I have to say the new geometry is nice. Good idea .
If all works out, maybe I'll get to see one of these in person while making a shirasaya :-) I can think of a few nice mount optons as well :-)
Good work, keep it up Take care,
Skip
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Post by Deleted on Jan 12, 2009 4:10:03 GMT
Hey Cris, Wow, now I see what you were talking about. Nicely done indeed. I will be eagerly awaiting more updates. I have to say the new geometry is nice. Good idea . If all works out, maybe I'll get to see one of these in person while making a shirasaya :-) I can think of a few nice mount optons as well :-) Good work, keep it up Take care, Skip Hey Skip! I know it was sort of difficult to understand what I was saying last night lol. Makes sense when you see the sword though =D. Like I said, my preference would be about 1/8" less on the shinogi...and I may try that on the second blade depending on if someone purchases just the first one. Tonight I spent an hour or so refining the side I'd roughed in last night. HUGE difference. After that I went ahead and spent some time reprofiling the mune on the other side of the blade to match. I think it turned out pretty well overall. I still have a tiny bit of cleanup of the lines on that side tomorrow, then I can move onto placing the shinogi and finishing that side complete. Finally I'll true up the center ridge on the mune (it's a bit off at the tip). Then (yuck!!) polishing lol. I really think this one is going to turn out well though. It's got a huge wide hamon from what I can tell. Anyhow, here's a few pictures: Few pictures of the kissaki from the mune down. Pretty radical difference. REALLY wish this tip hadn't been damaged...as a bit longer kissaki with that minimal hamon and boshi would have been cool. Not sure what the hamon's going to look like now lol.Picture to show the amount of metal I took out of the mune in the process of raising the shinogi and beveling the shinogi ji. Pretty substantial. I'm not finished yet, and I've cut 1.6oz out of the weight...all in areas that will not structurally affect the blade.Comparison of the two blades showing how much I moved the shinogi line up the blade. I REALLY wish both blades had that sori lol. Ignore the few spots where the line looks blurred. It's actually very crisp and straight. I think that was a lighting thing.So anyhow, I'm still happy lol, which is saying something. This is really the first large blade I've shaped, and it's coming out pretty well from my point of view =). Anyway, I'm sure I'll have another update tomorrow! If you might be interested in this blade when it's finished...and have any preferances on how it's completed, now's the time to speak up lol. We're fast closing in on the point where it is what it is! Cris
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Post by Deleted on Jan 17, 2009 21:08:26 GMT
more updates please!
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Post by Deleted on Jan 17, 2009 22:32:49 GMT
LOL haven't worked on them at all =). Been working on my first full length sword forged from scratch =). Soon as that's done though I'll probably try to finish off at least one. Cris
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Post by Deleted on Jan 19, 2009 7:07:20 GMT
you have so many projects, but I like that! , just try to work faster >_>( )
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Post by Deleted on Jan 19, 2009 17:10:34 GMT
you have so many projects, but I like that! , just try to work faster >_>( ) LOL!
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