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Post by Deleted on Jan 5, 2009 3:20:45 GMT
I am looking to buy a saber, and I especially like the plain utilitarian look of the 'blucher'/1796 British light cavalry saber and some of the more simple, American Civil War designs. I wanted one which, if it does not come sharp, has an edge which could be sharpened. I've looked at weapon edge, cold steel and windlass quite seriously, because I don't have more than $250 to spend, but I'm open to different, potentially more expensive recommendations. I would like it to be durable, but it doesn't have to be a tank and I would prefer if it handled more lightly than a 'sharpened crowbar,' but I don't want a feather weight either. I would like to do some cutting with it, but probably nothing heavier than water bottles, thin branches, cardboard and the like. Problematically, from the research I've done, it seems as though most sub $300 swords do not have a proper distal taper, and so often handle with a lot of the weight in the tip of the blade, even if the overall weight is correct. Realizing that this is just the reality of most sub $300 swords, I am willing to settle for a complete lack of distal taper, but some would still be nice. Finally, I especially would like to find something with a solid, non-rattling hilt construction with a wooden, not plastic, grip core. Also, I am not overly fanatic about historical accuracy as long as the design is attractive and well-executed. Any help would be greatly appreciated, Thanks  |
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Post by stromloswordsusa on Jan 5, 2009 4:43:51 GMT
ou may like to check out my site: As I sell 1796 Cavalry Swords www.stromloswords.com or mirrored at www.weaponedge.com/stromloFor prices, use the drop list to select country (top left) I now have had a shipment with sharpened blades as well. I previously sold 1796 L Cav swords with only steel scabbard but now have leather available. These have wood core hilts, are solid, and historically accurate. As mentioned before, I am supplied by Weaponedge. I offer $20 off if you prepay an order (I dont have any 1796 in stock) and an extra $10 for SBG members. Check out my ebay auctions also, I have a number on there to clear stock and advertise. Best regards, Rob |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 5, 2009 9:07:43 GMT
Maybe the Hutton Saber can be a choice for you? I've got one these days and it seems to be a quite good saber. Not sharp, I don't know if s.o. has sharpened these sabers.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 8, 2009 4:10:21 GMT
I've done a little more research and have pretty much boiled it down to Cold Steel or Weapon Edge. However, I have heard stories of Cold Steel swords with rattling hilts and the fact that Weapon edge swords are hardened only to like 38 HRC, which I'm not quite sure is sufficient for holding a good sharp, durable edge, but I'm no metallurgist. Does anyone know what the true temper of the weapon edge blades are, and if they are 38 HRC, if that is good enough for a functional sword of this type (sabres)? Also, has the Cold Steel line seen any improvements in QC or hilt assembly recently? P.S. Does anyone have an informed opinion on the quality of the leather used by both these companies for their grips? I have some Gen 2 swords, which are alright, but they use a really cheap leather and I was looking to get something of a much higher quality when it comes to the grip wrap. Thanks A lot |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 9, 2009 22:19:34 GMT
We discussed the WeaponEdge temper in another thread, but I can't seem to find it at the moment. The 38HRC number comes from a guy at SFI who got that info directly from the company, so I believe it's accurate. I think Hotspur put it best by saying that as long as you aren't going to be hacking up lumber with it the temper should be fine and perfectly acceptable for typical backyard targets. It is pretty soft, so I'd imagine fairly frequent edge touch ups would be necessary. On the plus side, such touch ups should be quite easy to do. Check out Tom's vids here: /index.cgi?board=general&action=display&thread=7799 for a pretty straightforward method. The only thing I might add would be a piece of 8-9 oz. leather under the sandpaper to get an easier convex edge.  |
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Post by hotspur on Jan 10, 2009 1:51:55 GMT
Keep in mind that this recurring snippet was a couple of years ago from one source relating an email conversation.
From descriptions of the swords by current owners, the Weapon Edge stuff seems to be paying some attention to details (not all though). The last review up about distal taper and another shared at myArmoury last summer indicates they are a cut above some of the other producers. That, in starting with thicker stock and reducing distal taper more like the the originals. A good many reproductions start with stock that is too thin to begin with and then little or very shallow distal taper.
Any of the reproductions will be quite subjective until someone takes an original in hand and realizes the differences. Until a person has done the homework (as some have) there is no real way to compare what the reproductions share. All I can offer is that some of us have tried to point these things out time and again.
Despite what I see as some real failings by Weapon Edge's offerings (obvious visual stuff), I do feel they are probably worth a look by those shopping this genre. I am very dissapointed in their spadroon effort in producing them and shocked someone would fall for one as an original because of the quite obvious truths. Others look quite nice and there are swords I considered quite seriously before making my one sabre reproduction choice some time ago.
Cheers
Hotspur; there are going to be considerations in anyone's choices but only the person putting down the cash can make the final decision for them
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Post by stromloswordsusa on Jan 10, 2009 13:01:38 GMT
Hi again guys,
As I distribute weaponedge, and have quite a few weaponedge swords sitting a few feet from me, how could I get an accurate measure of the HRC. Is someone offering to do it - and will it be a destructive test?
Let me know as we could figure out a way to test and get past the 38. Maybe I can sell someone a blade and then when they post the testing provide a refund???
Any ideas,
Rob
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Post by hotspur on Jan 10, 2009 14:13:07 GMT
Hi Rob,
There are the relatively inexpensive hardness testing files. These come as a set and each file may determine a range of a few points of hardness. I say "may" because even the amount of pressure used can sway the testing one way or another.
Others, may also notice how a given stone or file they use cuts the steel. That is pretty subjective as well.
There are real hardness test machines but I have no access to them, nor the file set. The real hardness test machines need to be jigged up to present a flat surface and this can mean the blade may ssuffer some real blemishes. The files can be done pretty lightly but they too will be leaving marks.
In the end, it would be helpful if a manufacturer provided full disclosure about steel types, hardness and purposes. The original details shared do seem to relate those things by the source but it leaves the impression that they are pretty soft for a reason. A good spring heat treatment that does bring the hardness back may well be purposeful by the source. If the manufacturer is going to be targeting the back yard cutting sector, they may want to adjust their processes in order to cater to them. I note the old thread mentions steel equal to 1040, yet your site relates 1050. It is things like that which will help clear the air over time.
Maybe you can put some other answers to questions that come up. Of the Cold Steel sword offerings, a couple of them do look very much like items from this source. The Cold Steel 1917 cutlass, a dirk and their Scottish baskethilt all seem to share those profiles. Does Cold Steel source from Weapon Edge. or some other import/export effort?
Some of the rigors of testing go way beyond what the military requirements were in the 19th century. Pinning the point and bending the sabres to a circumference equal to a circle 36" odd in diameter. Stuff like that. I think the general public is probably just wanting an egde that doesn't need to be continually sharpened and the blades to be fool proof. Somewhere there is a middle ground there. A lot of the user end complications come from the actual use themselves.It is not so unlike some drivers not knowing how to check their engine oil or coolant system. Well meaning but often simply unknowing.
Cheers
Hotspur; many who do buy from W-E do like what they are receiving
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Post by Deleted on Jan 11, 2009 3:36:47 GMT
Does anyone here know if the overall quality and aesthetics of weaponedge are superior to cold steel? As far as I can tell, the CS offerings would be better, sharper more durable cutters, but what about other categories like aesthetics, handling, historical accuracy, fit and finish, quality of materials (like which has nicer leather wraps or hilt components), etc... Thanks for all the help so far |
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Post by stromloswordsusa on Jan 16, 2009 4:00:24 GMT
thanks hotspur,
i guess what I was after was ""independant analysis"" by someone like yourself. Many makers and sellers claim things, but I want to be able to be correct, and truthful. A lower hardness than 50 may not be a bad thing if not such a brittle blade.
Cheers,
Rob
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Post by hotspur on Jan 17, 2009 23:53:52 GMT
Hi Rob,
In spite of best intentions, both sellers and buyers are going to be pretty subjective about things. Someone with a $49 "Civil War" sabre may be just as happy and feel the object just as useful as the Weapon Edge American Trooper saber. To that end in inquiry, I would have to ask what makes the Weapon Edge offering more worthy than that from Legendary Arms or Atlanta Cutlery at lower price points.
We can see that same phenomena right now with the Loyalist Arms cutlass. If historical anachronism isn't a big point in considering such a purchase, the cheapest possible will find appeal to a broad sector of the market that might as simply have bought a machete. The difference is that it "looks" like a historical cutlass because it has a hilt. I'd be willing to venture that buying a machete of that cost is going to be a better choice in how to appreciate better tools.
There is no free lunch but many are just happy as clams to have the dollar menu.
Honestly, I am any retailer's nightmare customer in relating to reproductions. Consider that I can spend less money than either Cold Steel or Weapon Edge on minty (or interesting) military swords. While I track the market and do look at offerings, I am just plain out of the buying end of that market. Bookend a couple of them and I'm back to 18th century originals that languish at dealer sites.
Cheers
Hotspur; even $300 will fetch some pretty fantastic original swords
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