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Post by Deleted on Jan 4, 2009 5:49:15 GMT
Hi, new here. Made that intro in the newbie area.
Okay, anyhoot....
I recently shelved (for good) a katana I had purchased from "handmadesword.com" a while ago. They were okay swords...supposedly, but the handle began to creak and crack, and the blade wasn't too great either: the whole set pretty much fell apart from simply being swung. The blade bent too, but that was under suspicious circumstance of my brother and a cardboard mailing tube....
Meanwhile, I wasn't really hitting targets with it, just pool noodles because I was suspicious of it from the getgo and discovered the handle issue that way. It was somewhat cheap, and from reading some posts about the site, I was pretty much assured that the place isn't as great as I was told it was, and I called-off my idea of buying a $300+ blade from them. Good service, but the swords weren't something to write home about. The wakizashi that came with it was okay, but...meh.
Okay, now the main thing: since the "retirement" of my only katana, I've been thinking of replacing it with one of the Practical katana from Paul Chen. Problem is...
...I dunno which one to get. The only major guideline I have is that I can't really spend more than $250-$300.
So, I am now asking for help here on what to get. I am currently looking at the Practical Elite Katana or the Practical XL. I do not which one would be better to get for what I usually do. Here's what I'm thinking of...
*I'm looking to see which one has the longer tang-to-handle-length ratio. I would like to get a sword where the tang doesn't stop halfway through the tsuka: one of many things discovered causing problems with the handmadesword katana. I can't really tell which sword (the Elite or the XL) has a tang that is (or closer to) the butt of the handle. I'm just....getting too many conflicting answers from dealers about that.
*Which one would be good for both iaijutsu and cutting exercises? I know the XL would be best for cutting tatami, but the Elite seems like it would be easier to handle being pulled from the saya for draw-and-slash type of movements. Does the XL fair well in that respect too?
*Which, in your opinion, would be the best sword overall if you had to choose one for yourselves?
*Also, is there any problems with the two swords structure-wise? I read the reviews and such, but I'd still like to hear from you guys on how they handle!
I'm sorry to waste space bugging you about this, but I am needing a new katana. Although I have had sword experience, the katana has been a whole other world of things needed to be known when I acquired my first, and knowing which would be best for under $250-$300 from the Practical series is something I am not too knowledgeable about.
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Post by Tom K. (ianflaer) on Jan 4, 2009 12:01:25 GMT
Welcome to SBG Stormchaser, we're happy to have you. ok, I recently won a Hanwei Practical Light Katana, and I can tell you I'm impressed. it has been tough and super sharp and just a joy to swing. I think you'll find with Hanwei all their tang (nakago) are very good length. if it were me I'd not go with the Performance series geometry since that makes Hanwei's already thinner than most blades even thinner yet. Hanwei already has a reputation of being brittle on the edge from the occasional chipping of a blade on a soda bottle neck or mouth. my practical light has not had this problem and I have cut through a cap and throat of a bottle. what I think this means is their practical series is good stuff. if you go to our brother forumite's web page: www.wiwingtiswordsupply.com/classic.htmlyou'll see you have a lot of choices in your price range. I would reccomend either the practical light or practical plus for your stated uses. I would reccomend you try the SBG store but it seems all they carry right now are the performance series. my the way XL in hanwei language IS performance series and ELITE sometimes is performance series too. for example the practical pro elite is a performance series blade. so if you are debating Elite and XL read up real careful on the description. here I did it for you: "optimised with a new geometry to enhance its cutting performance" this is from the practial Elite. sounds to me like the "Elite" series is an upgrade to the practical line that uses the XL blade and better fittings and better polish. hmmm I just read the practical XL description and it says: "With a broader, thinner blade designed to maximize it’s cutting potential on Tatami Omote: the Practical Plus XL Light Katana has the same blade as the Practical XL Light Katana, but uses higher quality and more traditional fittings and construction methods." ok I'm a little confused on that, but I can say that I mistrust the XL blades unless you are cutting tatami and tatami only. ok I got it, Paul had this picture in the store: with this description: " The blade geometry and physical characteristics of each of the Tameshigiri (cutting practice) blades are tailored towards different targets. The Elite Katana’s blade (left most image) is a little wider and a little thicker than its traditional counterpart, while that of the Katana XL (middle image) is significantly wider, for use in cutting thicker tatami mats. The Katana XL Light (right image) has the XL’s profile but includes a Bo-hi (fuller/blood groove), reducing the weight to the point where fast double cuts are possible but clean cuts on thicker mats may still be made." considering this, I'd go with the "elite" or the standard. I still don't like the XL for anything but tatami and that just seems like cheating ;D
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Post by Deleted on Jan 4, 2009 13:39:32 GMT
"I would reccomend either the practical light or practical plus for your stated uses." I followed your advice. Looking at the Practical Plus (Elite), I think that may be better to get (unless someone has a different opinion). I didn't think it would that much affordable, but boy I'm glad I looked at it a bit closer! But looking at it, I changed my mind about the first two I looked at. I think the Practical Plus (maybe the Elite model) may be the way to go. Would that be a better buy? Thanks for your help!
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Post by Tom K. (ianflaer) on Jan 4, 2009 13:47:23 GMT
I think the Practical Plus (Elite or normal) will be a good sword.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 4, 2009 13:47:32 GMT
i have cut a lot of bottles with my XL, ive hit the caps on a few... i even just sold it to an untrained pal as im trying to fund a nihonto
he managed to hit the stand straight away, no blade damage at all.
but even so, i still reccomend the practical katana light, very easy to use, cuts very well, exceptional value for money. /index.cgi?board=swordreviews&action=display&thread=7391
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Marc Ridgeway
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Post by Marc Ridgeway on Jan 4, 2009 14:27:20 GMT
Below was my PK Elite... it was damaged from hitting the mouths of bottles... hit the stand...no problem, I wouldn't really expect edge damage from wood... at least not like that... and note caps aren't the culprit... its the hard plastic bottle mouths... the thin edge hitting the hard plastic and impacting in such a small area... Competely buggered it up... Bottle mouths are a bit like sword abuse, and I wouldn't even be upset about it, except I've owned dozens (way over 50) of other katana (including Hanwei) ... and have never had this problem on any of them... While i believe that Hanwei consistantly provides the best production katana in the $1000 and less price bracket, I believe the edge geometry on the PK Elite series is too acute.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 4, 2009 15:39:40 GMT
Hmmm, all of the PK are like that, or is it just the Elite (and XL) models? I don't hit plastic with my swords, but still, I'd rather a sword not be that damageable on the edge.
So if the Elite ones are problematic, would the regular ol' Practical Plus (non-elite) be a better choice structure-wise?
EDIT: The PK Light seems good too, but I'm still unsure...
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Post by Tom K. (ianflaer) on Jan 4, 2009 17:15:37 GMT
Stormchaser, If you aren't hitting plastic with your swords then I'm guessing you are only cutting pool noodles and mats. if that is correct, I would think that any of the hanwei swords would be fine. as Marc said hitting that plastic ring on a soda bottle is pretty much sword abuse. still, I understand your concern. basically what you want then is a sword with more niku. that just means the angle of the cutting face is fatter. the more narrow the angle of the wedge that is your sword's edge the sharper and more delicate it is. the longer the distance from ha (cutting edge) to mune (spine) the narrower that angle can be made. personally, I would go for a regular Practical Pro (since I like long tsuka) or regular Practical Plus.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 4, 2009 17:57:26 GMT
Ah, then it does sound good, but the narrowness still bothers me.
Also, my girlfriend suggested I check on this: How good of quality are the springsteel katanas from chenessinc.com? I saw the tenchi model and it seems like it may be better than the PK stuff. Any thoughts on the springsteel swords? I may be getting the 30" one for my birthday, if I play my cards right (I'm a bit tall). Any crit and complaints about them?
Man I need to make up my mind....I keep jumping from one sword to another.... XD I'm so new to katanas...
EDIT: Wow, just got a late gift from my grandfather. Grand total of sword funds = $390.
That opened up my choices a bit!
Anyhoot...........yeah.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 4, 2009 18:37:57 GMT
You might want to peruse the SBG classifieds, some good stuff there.
Cheness Kaze (ANIB) $220, looks like it just went to eBay, but PM him, who knows...
-RDH
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SlayerofDarkness
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Post by SlayerofDarkness on Jan 4, 2009 18:40:44 GMT
The cheness ARE the way to go, IMHO. Check out the main SBG site, and read the Tenchi and Kaze reviews there. The tenchi can withstand beating up a steel drum with no damage, so it's the best beater around. The Kaze is sharper and faster, though, and has better edge retention. Just my $.02, but I'd steer towards cheness instead of Hanwei, myself.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 4, 2009 18:43:28 GMT
Hm, probably be a good idea. I'm itching to buy stuff made by Cheness now, after seeing the review for the Tenchi katana, unless there are problems with it that anyone knows of...
I'll probably check out the Classifieds when I'm sure on what I should be after.
EDIT: "The cheness ARE the way to go, IMHO. Check out the main SBG site, and read the Tenchi and Kaze reviews there. The tenchi can withstand beating up a steel drum with no damage, so it's the best beater around. The Kaze is sharper and faster, though, and has better edge retention. Just my $.02, but I'd steer towards cheness instead of Hanwei, myself. "
I'm pretty much not too keen on getting Hanwei PKs after what I saw on Cheness. The Tenchi has my eye on it, but the 30" katana also has my attention XD
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Marc Ridgeway
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Post by Marc Ridgeway on Jan 4, 2009 18:54:28 GMT
Hm, probably be a good idea. I'm itching to buy stuff made by Cheness now, after seeing the review for the Tenchi katana, unless there are problems with it that anyone knows of... I'll probably check out the Classifieds when I'm sure on what I should be after. EDIT: "The cheness ARE the way to go, IMHO. Check out the main SBG site, and read the Tenchi and Kaze reviews there. The tenchi can withstand beating up a steel drum with no damage, so it's the best beater around. The Kaze is sharper and faster, though, and has better edge retention. Just my $.02, but I'd steer towards cheness instead of Hanwei, myself. " I'm pretty much not too keen on getting Hanwei PKs after what I saw on Cheness. The Tenchi has my eye on it, but the 30" katana also has my attention XD Depends on what you want in a sword *shrug* it was my PK you saw with all the dings, but I'd get another over a Cheness anyday... If I wanted a sword for 55 gal drums... MAYBE I'd get a Cheness, but likely not... I'd go with Kris cutlery first...
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Post by shadowhowler on Jan 4, 2009 18:57:49 GMT
The Tenchi is a monosteel sword... if you are looking for something more like a traditional katana... the Tenchi is not for you. However, if you are looking for something really tough thats shaped like a katana, it may work out for you. You asked if it has any problems... let me first say I have not personaly owned or handled one, so the following is just what I have heard from others who have. Some say the tsuka on the cheness swords are not built very well... and most say the fittings are best described as pedestrian at best. The general 'party line' on cheness is that the blades are made very tough... but everything eles about the swords is only 'Meh'. The Paul chen swords may not be as tough... but they are differentaly hardened like a traditional katana... and there are many lines to chose from... and the fittings get better and better as you go up. I have not owned a Paul Chen Katana either... but I have had the chance to handle several... and they are light and quick, and the uper limit ones have very nice fittings. Cheness and Paul Chen swords are VERY different, from what I gather... make sure you know what you want before you decide.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 4, 2009 18:59:08 GMT
Hm, probably be a good idea. I'm itching to buy stuff made by Cheness now, after seeing the review for the Tenchi katana, unless there are problems with it that anyone knows of... I'll probably check out the Classifieds when I'm sure on what I should be after. EDIT: "The cheness ARE the way to go, IMHO. Check out the main SBG site, and read the Tenchi and Kaze reviews there. The tenchi can withstand beating up a steel drum with no damage, so it's the best beater around. The Kaze is sharper and faster, though, and has better edge retention. Just my $.02, but I'd steer towards cheness instead of Hanwei, myself. " I'm pretty much not too keen on getting Hanwei PKs after what I saw on Cheness. The Tenchi has my eye on it, but the 30" katana also has my attention XD Depends on what you want in a sword *shrug* it was my PK you saw with all the dings, but I'd get another over a Cheness anyday... If I wanted a sword for 55 gal drums... MAYBE I'd get a Cheness, but likely not... I'd go with Kris cutlery first... I would like a somewhat thick blade, but not super thick. I dunno, I gotta think on what I'm after, but so far the Tenchi is what I'm looking for thus far. Thnks for the help so far, guys!
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Post by Tom K. (ianflaer) on Jan 4, 2009 19:00:15 GMT
Cheness, now we are opening up a whole new can of fish. ok, I've said this many times before and I think i bears repeating: don't buy into the "this type of steel is stronger than plain carbon steel of the same carbon point" (meaning comparing something like 9260 or 5160 to 1060). ok there are going to be different propertes to the steel and how it acts, but the difference is not so large that the real way to make a sword strong is anything other than DO IT RIGHT. meaning that quality heat treatment and good geometry or shape makes more of a difference on toughness than steel type. having said that, cheness does make very tough swords but it's due to the fact that they give their swords more than the normal amount of niku (blade meat) and make them thicker than most other production katana. I love Cheness's Kaze, but I'm not very fond of the rest of their swords the reason? 1. I like real hamon. Kaze has it the rest don't. 2. I think Cheness tends to temper their TH swords too much leaving them a little too soft. 4. I'm not a fan of Cheness's fittings or saya but the kaze is good enough I'm willing to deal with them. I do like the kaze's tsuba but the fuchi, kashira, tsuka, habaki, and saya range from mediocre to poor. you've got a budget of almost $400 you can do better. I would say get another $10 and go for a Deshi from Roninswords.com but I don't know what the wait time is right now. if you want you can talk to Brian Dreier and see how his work load is and make a decision from there. hey, take a look at this deal and guess what, it costs $390 www.wiwingtiswordsupply.com/specialoftheweek.htmlhave you checked out the SBG Custom? check out our SBG store if you like. also take a look at this review of the Last Legend Shin Ryuu: /index.cgi?board=swordreviews&action=display&thread=7662
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SlayerofDarkness
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Post by SlayerofDarkness on Jan 4, 2009 19:04:23 GMT
The Kaze IS differentially hardened, though. I'd never trust my life to a Hanwei Katana, I've just heard too much about their weakness. Cheness' SGC (specialized Goza cutter) swords are actually BETTER than the tenchi. they are every bit as tough (some argue that they're even tougher), but cut better, and look cooler. IMO, their the way to go. I usually agree with Marc, but it seems to me that he has an underlying dislike for cheness...So, if you want a traditional katana, go with the Kaze, if not, the SGC is the BEST choice out there. I hope this helps!
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Post by Tom K. (ianflaer) on Jan 4, 2009 19:22:02 GMT
I disagree about the SGC. first of all it isn't as tough as the kaze. I've tested this personally. it doesn't have the good niku Cheness puts on their normal geometry blades. the other reason I don't like it is it handles like an overly heavy western longsword and not a katana. the SGC is too wide and too heavy and too soft. if you want competition geometry go with hanwei if you want a tough beater sword then yeah a Tenchi could be good but I think the kaze is better all around.
the reason Marc tends to dislike cheness is because of their fittings, and I agree their fittings are not very good. some of their fittings are ok but some are really bad, especially their fuchigashira.
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Post by shadowhowler on Jan 4, 2009 19:34:01 GMT
I disagree about the SGC. first of all it isn't as tough as the kaze. I've tested this personally. it doesn't have the good niku Cheness puts on their normal geometry blades. the other reason I don't like it is it handles like an overly heavy western longsword and not a katana. the SGC is too wide and too heavy and too soft. if you want competition geometry go with hanwei if you want a tough beater sword then yeah a Tenchi could be good but I think the kaze is better all around. This is key... because you have handled the swords in question, so you are speaking from experince. Our young friend Slayer here would do well to limit his suggestions to weapons he has personal experince with or, barring that, at least prefeace his suggestions with the fact that he is mearly making suggestions bassed on his interpritation of what he has read.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 4, 2009 19:35:29 GMT
Cheness has a good enough blade...but even at the best of times, their fitting were just barely acceptable. And it seems they have been getting worse lately...and at a time when there is so much better out there, I find it hard to recommend cheness unless your REALLY need a tough blade.
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