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Post by Deleted on Jan 13, 2009 5:00:11 GMT
Anyways guys, we're hijacking Absilits' thread, back on topic no?
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Post by alvin on Jan 13, 2009 5:15:01 GMT
Seems swords were quite capable of doing marvelous things in other cultures too. “….and when he carried it from the hearth, it seemed to the smith’s boys as if the edges burned with fire, then he bade Sigurd take his sword…. Sigurd cut at the anvil and sliced it in two to its base, but the sword neither shattered nor broke, he praised the sword greatly, and went to the river with a strand of wool and threw it up stream, and it was cut in two when it touched the sword…..” Volsunga Saga“ King Athelstan gave Hakon the sword with guard and grip of gold, yet its blade was of even greater worth. With it Hakon cut a millstone to the center, and ever afterwards the sword was called Quernbiter….” Heimskringla, Haralds Saga Harfagra
Sorry absilits.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 13, 2009 5:49:36 GMT
Not always, bishop. Though I would be interested in learning who this friend is and how he managed to get ahold of such a weapon. Bill Gates couldn't get the Japanese to sell him one of their "national treasures" regardless of how much money he offered. In any case, we haven't unlocked all the secrets of some of those ancient steels. Damascus and Toledo steels being the most confusing so far... I will not expose his identity but will say he is (obviously) a wealthy and is well connected man that is well respected. As far as it being a national treasure, I can say that it took some people convincing with money and a 3rd party was involved getting it to the states. Now how you want to interrupt that is up to you, because I'm not going to reveal the details of that part of the story. But I merely brought this up in light of what Tom said about certain blades back then that were able to cleave 7 bodies, and reinforcing the statement with an existing blade today. Weather we want to believe it or not, there are things out there that do defy modern science and what little understanding we have on physics. The Japanese held shintoism in the highest regards in the day, and were very ritual and spiritual about the process of making their swords... especially swords made for lords. Example being this story: "One of these stories tells about two famous swordsmiths, named Muramasa and Masume, who were considered almost equal in skill. They decided to have a contest to see who could make a better sword. As a test for the sword, Muramasa held his sword upright in a swift running stream. Every dead leaf that drifted against the edge of the sword was cut neatly in two. When Masume put his sword to the same test, the floating leaves avoided its edge passing unhurt on either side; Masume's blade therefore was declared superior to its rival as it clearly possessed a spiritual and/or mystical power." "Swords were thought to have miraculous powers and lives of their own. As a result a strict code of etiquette was developed for handling and maintaining swords. Soldiers defeated in battle prayed at the shrines of the war-god Hachiman, asking why their swords had lost their spirit. Many stories have come down about the spiritual powers of notable blades as well as the keen sharpness of the blade."
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Post by Deleted on Jan 13, 2009 6:01:44 GMT
So we're not straying into the world of Star Wars but more into D&D - with enchanting blades with a true spell so they remain sharp longer and cut better than a normal blade.
My spiritual beliefs (and I'll be brief) lead me to believe in many things about spirituality, shaman and magic. As such I'm not beyond believing that weapons can have spirits etc. This isn't an attempt to get religious - just an explanation to preface what I'm about to say.
Regarding the story - I call foul. In fact the fact that you start quoting popular myths to support your story makes me say even more bluntly - BS. Now no offense intended but that's how I interpret your vagueness and lack of verifiable details.
Now then, without further verifiable proof, let's get off this horrid tangent and go back to the spirit of the OP - cutting through ballistic gel (and perhaps other materials that closely simulate flesh).
Oh by the way I cut my little bit of ballistic gel out of the 2 liter bottle that had entrapped it. I also set it up for a cut - in my kitchen! I took my 3 cuts to the gel (1 to the middle and 1 to each remaining piece.) I then picked it up and stuck them into my fridge in a large bowl.
The feeling - like nothing I've cut before. Not like tatami, not like newspaper... definitely not like a bottle or a small tree.
Now I have a question - since this is just gelatin... is it possible to melt it down with heat and re-form it for use again? I mean - a botched batch of jello can be salvaged that way. What about this stuff?
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Post by shadowhowler on Jan 13, 2009 7:17:45 GMT
I know everyone was having fun bashing the 'Fight Science' clip there, but I gotta chime in and give it a little defense. The 'sweaty karate guy' in the video is actualy Bren Foster, a Tae Kwon Do trained Martial Artist. Why they gave him a katana and let him make an ass out of himself is beyond me... but that segment is the worst part of the 2 hour program. The rest of the show, while having many faults, has some worth while info in it. On the whole... the show is not the 'end all and be all' of scientific info on martial arts that it presents itself as being... but it is more informative and interesting then it seems in the one segment presented in the clip. Just thought I'd toss that out there. As for the 2 inch katana drop cut slicing an arm off... yeah, I call BS on that. Not saying that Trevor was not told that by his friend, I'm sure he was... but it's still BS. Physics are physics and, tho I play D&D and have an open mind to the spiritual... I don't belive in 'magic katana' that cut beyond the ability of reality. Carry on.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 13, 2009 15:21:39 GMT
Sam, you should be able to reuse it, but it will "break down" at some point and not set properly. Reduce, reuse, recycle Didn't we have a thread last summer/fall discussing the relative "merits" of ballistic gel as a target? I couldn't find it I thought there were some good points there re slicing vs impact.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 13, 2009 15:26:51 GMT
Cool Debbie! Thanks! I figure if we can reuse it then it would cut down on cost - and waste. Once it fails to set properly I'll flush it down the toilet.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 13, 2009 18:34:24 GMT
I know everyone was having fun bashing the 'Fight Science' clip there, but I gotta chime in and give it a little defense. The 'sweaty karate guy' in the video is actualy Bren Foster, a Tae Kwon Do trained Martial Artist. Why they gave him a katana and let him make an ass out of himself is beyond me... but that segment is the worst part of the 2 hour program. I suspect that Obata sensei didn't give them enough material to work with, leaving them stranded, and they grabbed the nearest muscle-head. I have seen this done on other documentaries.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 13, 2009 18:36:04 GMT
From my, slightly limited experience with reading about swords... I am afraid that too many conclusions are made in such a manner. I have been working with swords since 1975 and I don't have enough information to comment on this matter.
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Marc Ridgeway
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Post by Marc Ridgeway on Jan 13, 2009 19:10:54 GMT
From my, slightly limited experience with reading about swords... I am afraid that too many conclusions are made in such a manner. I have been working with swords since 1975 and I don't have enough information to comment on this matter. True.. but I've been around enough bs to know it when I smell it...
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Post by shadowhowler on Jan 13, 2009 20:25:36 GMT
True.. but I've been around enough bs to know it when I smell it... Whoever smelt it DELT it my friend... Seriously tho, I would think at least 90% of us here would say this 'magic sword' thing is BS.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 13, 2009 21:13:25 GMT
I’m sure there are Katana's that are worth £100,000. There are certainly museum peaces which are very old but look almost as good as the day they were forged, and while I can’t claim to have handled such peaces I suspect that they are razor sharp. I’m sure people also tell stories of blade that if dropped a sort distance will cut through a limb. Does that mean I believe them? No. while I will keep my religious beliefs to myself. I do not believe that there are things that science cannot explain when it comes to Japanese swords. Sharp yes, magicaly sharp no.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 13, 2009 21:19:35 GMT
To bring this back to the subject at hand I’ve just had a go at cutting up my first block of home made ballistic Gel. I can't say if the home made stuff is similar to the real thing, but it felt fairly solid. I don’t think my batch had set properly because if I push my fingers in to it if i push hard enough, and when I cut it, itjust feels like its to easy and there is not enough resistance. Ill have to try another batch to see if I can get it closer to the real thing.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 13, 2009 21:31:26 GMT
I wonder if you added a slightly less amount of water if it would make it harder to cut and more solid. If you look at the stuff people like mythbusters uses their ballistic gel is really solid
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Post by Deleted on Jan 13, 2009 21:36:33 GMT
I wonder if you added a slightly less amount of water if it would make it harder to cut and more solid. If you look at the stuff people like mythbusters uses their ballistic gel is really solid I think something went wrong while it was setting, it felt very solid if I pushed my finger vertically down on to it but if I pushed from the side I could push my finger through it. It felt like it had settled in to layers.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 13, 2009 22:04:59 GMT
while I will keep my religious beliefs to myself. I do not believe that there are things that science cannot explain when it comes to Japanese swords. Sharp yes, magicaly sharp no. Japanese swords, Middle Eastern swords. Spanish swords. And a myriad of other items and weapons. There are many things from the ancient world that modern science can not Yet explain. Yet. We did finally figure out water-proof concrete after all. Only took 2,000 years, but we figured it out. But we still don't know how Roman artillery had the power their writings claim it did and fired as many times as it did before needing the power source replaced (No. Not as in electrical power...) Of course, we can't really gut enough cats or horses to give that a proper try. Not in the USA, anyway...
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Post by Deleted on Jan 13, 2009 22:43:17 GMT
Dude, discuss it elsewhere, we've already hijacked the thread so stop talking about it.
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Post by Tom K. (ianflaer) on Jan 13, 2009 23:00:26 GMT
speaking of the balistics gell the Mythbusters use I bet you could go to their website and get them to tell you their recepie. any voluteers?
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Post by Deleted on Jan 13, 2009 23:08:33 GMT
Mythbusters ballistic gel, purchesd from www.gelita.com/ I’ve had a quick look at their website and it just appears to be normal gelatine, nothing special so presumably(though I might be completely wrong) its just about getting enough gelatine to dissolve in water and making sure it sets properly
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Avery
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Post by Avery on Jan 14, 2009 0:34:15 GMT
Ok, first thing first. I too call BS on the whole 2" above the arm thing. Not only call bs, But will also lay down a challenge. Any one who can set a blade in a vice so that it levers from 2" above a........ Oh say a turkey leg bone, and send it just by gravity through the bone, will win the"I am the sh*t" award. Next, Yes you can reuse the gel to a certain degree, When it wont set well anymore, just toss it in the flower bed. It'll dissolve overtime. King rat, how long did you leave the gel in the fridge?
Oh yeah, lastly. You can make it thicker, just use 7/8 of a cup per pack. If you want to simulate bone, fill a large mug or half gallon milk jug with the gel, then slide a 1/2 " piece of PVC pipe down in through the center. i f you really want to go the distance, push wire pipe cleaners down too. That kinda simulates tendon. Warning- Expect scratches.
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