Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 16, 2008 15:24:41 GMT
As I read through posted messages in this forum, including instructions given in reports of sword tests, I found that katanas are very vulnerable. The handles get cracked; the blades take a set or shatters, etc. Moreover, you cannot do this or that with your katanas. "Do not test it on a hard target," for instance. Why are katanas so WEAK? In real battle fields, samurais must use their swords to strike hard targets such as other swords, spears, or other hard weapons. So, how could they survive the battles if their katanas were so vulnerable? Moreover, in comparison to other swords tested so far on this website, I found that other types of swords, Chinese or European, seem to do much better and to be stronger. Is my impression wrong? I think you need to rethink that entire post. It's Katana and Samurai, I believe those are plural and singular, maybe not. And these reports you think you see are maybe a couple in thousands, people SUGGEST you don't hit your sword up against street signs or blocks of wood, but it's a suggestion. And if you knew anything about Samurai, you would know that there was more technique to their fighting that slamming their swords again other swords, spears etc. For example when I was in kenjutsu, I was taught to guard a sword strike with the back edge of the blade to keep from chipping or possibly breaking my sword in half. And a katana is not meant to be bashed again steel suits of armor like broadswords and what not, as a matter of fact, in the era in which "western" swords were used, they weren't made to be sharp as a razor like katana, they were made to be capable of going into armor without breaking or chipping too badly. At least from my understanding. Katana, aren't weak, you just misconceive everything you've read. ugh, I apologize for all my grammatical errors, I just got up lol, again=against
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 16, 2008 16:08:17 GMT
... but doesn't cite hard data... Heh, I hope you didn't think I was asking about this kind of thing! I was just curious if you recalled any anecdotes about durability - please don't go out of your way on my account. Come to think of it, tameshigiri records on the nakago would be a pretty good indicator of durability... I mainly throw that link out to try and counter the arguments that the katana was a super sword. From those accounts some were fragile and from tameshigiri records some were obviously quite durable. And a katana is not meant to be bashed again steel suits of armor like broadswords and what not, as a matter of fact, in the era in which "western" swords were used, they weren't made to be sharp as a razor like katana, they were made to be capable of going into armor without breaking or chipping too badly. I'm afraid you may be the victim of a popular myth here...
|
|
Marc Ridgeway
Member
Retired Global Moderator
"The best cost less when you buy it the first time." - Papabear
Posts: 3,122
|
Post by Marc Ridgeway on Dec 16, 2008 16:25:17 GMT
Oh yeah...I'd seen the link before... it's a good example of what can happen to anything when form takes precedence over function...
I think it actually goes a long way to proving the point of the Japanese swords construction.... the sword developed like it did up to edo and shinto times so it would be supple not brittle... the artistic expression of edo and shinto peace time swords led to wide flagrant hamon... of course that much brittle martensite will break....to me it lends credence to the superiority of the more traditional construction in koto days....
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 16, 2008 17:38:14 GMT
... but doesn't cite hard data... Heh, I hope you didn't think I was asking about this kind of thing! I was just curious if you recalled any anecdotes about durability - please don't go out of your way on my account. Come to think of it, tameshigiri records on the nakago would be a pretty good indicator of durability... I mainly throw that link out to try and counter the arguments that the katana was a super sword. From those accounts some were fragile and from tameshigiri records some were obviously quite durable. And a katana is not meant to be bashed again steel suits of armor like broadswords and what not, as a matter of fact, in the era in which "western" swords were used, they weren't made to be sharp as a razor like katana, they were made to be capable of going into armor without breaking or chipping too badly. I'm afraid you may be the victim of a popular myth here... That's just based off of what I've seen around here.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 17, 2008 2:44:58 GMT
That's just based off of what I've seen around here. Gotta be careful of your sources! Now if you're talking about maille then I think your description of a 'steel suit' would be inaccurate but your assertion may be accurate. If you're talking about plate... I have never seen a legitimate modern swordsmith voice the opinion that swords are meant to bash on plate (in fact they nearly always argue the opposite way) and no period manual I've ever seen advocates striking against armour (with the intent of piercing it... some polearm stuff I've seen is used in throws, iirc). The only historical 'evidence' of swords vs plate I know of is in artwork (like in tapestries and books - which also show the slaying of dragons and cutting a plate wearing person in half with a one handed sword) which generally isn't regarded as accurate depictions by the people on myarmoury or SFI - who of course could be random punters. I think it's fairly safe to say that swords weren't meant in their primary role to bash on plate, but a hit to a plate helmet could be useful to stun. Weren't (in a general sense) thrusting oriented swords more used against plate? By the way, this is a broadsword:
|
|
SlayerofDarkness
Member
Review Points: 65
"Always give everyone the benefit of the doubt."
Posts: 3,067
|
Post by SlayerofDarkness on Dec 28, 2008 2:22:37 GMT
It's Katana and Samurai, I believe those are plural and singular, maybe not. Ok, well, I may only be 14 but I'm a grammer freak as well as a sword-lover. The correct terms are both katana AND katanas, but as for the 'samurais' thing; it just sounds stupid . Sorry, no offense intended of course, but it is most certainly 'samurai' both as the singular and the plural forms of the word. Thanks, Slayer
|
|
Marc Ridgeway
Member
Retired Global Moderator
"The best cost less when you buy it the first time." - Papabear
Posts: 3,122
|
Post by Marc Ridgeway on Dec 28, 2008 2:30:44 GMT
It's Katana and Samurai, I believe those are plural and singular, maybe not. Ok, well, I may only be 14 but I'm a grammer freak as well as a sword-lover. The correct terms are both katana AND katanas, but as for the 'samurais' thing; it just sounds stupid . Sorry, no offense intended of course, but it is most certainly 'samurai' both as the singular and the plural forms of the word. Thanks, Slayer Katana is the plural of katana.
|
|
SlayerofDarkness
Member
Review Points: 65
"Always give everyone the benefit of the doubt."
Posts: 3,067
|
Post by SlayerofDarkness on Dec 28, 2008 2:37:24 GMT
True, however 'katanas' is ALSO the plural of katana. Due to translation between english and Japanese or something like that. I may be wrong, but I don't believe that I am.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 28, 2008 2:42:18 GMT
The Japanese language does not have plural forms, only singular. So the translation would read 'katana' meaning one or many. Same goes with 'samurai'.
Generally however it is acceptable to use either 'katana' or 'katanas' in English as a plural form... The same is not true for 'samurai' though, just one of those oddities when you're translating Japanese to English... one of so many.
|
|
Marc Ridgeway
Member
Retired Global Moderator
"The best cost less when you buy it the first time." - Papabear
Posts: 3,122
|
Post by Marc Ridgeway on Dec 28, 2008 2:54:50 GMT
The Japanese language does not have plural forms, only singular. So the translation would read 'katana' meaning one or many. Same goes with 'samurai'. Generally however it is acceptable to use either 'katana' or 'katanas' in English as a plural form... The same is not true for 'samurai' though, just one of those oddities when you're translating Japanese to English... one of so many. Yes , in english we simply bastardize the word to pluralize it as we sees fit... katana is a Japanese word , not an English one were we to translate katana into its English equivalent the plural would be "swords"
|
|
SlayerofDarkness
Member
Review Points: 65
"Always give everyone the benefit of the doubt."
Posts: 3,067
|
Post by SlayerofDarkness on Dec 28, 2008 3:04:01 GMT
lol, you're probably right. oh, and your needle nibbler is right behind you in the pic, hiding behind the curtains. What's my reward?
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 28, 2008 4:17:24 GMT
if ur afraid of vunerable katanas stay away from masahiro fuji elite katana the edge on it bends so easily its sad, and also it bent as soon as i killed a tree At the risk of sounding like a semprini, that IS my very first sword I just recieved. Is this one of those freakishly crappy ones or just a techinique issue with the swordsman (Is there a different word for one who weilds a katana?)? I'm very green with all this sword talk and issues and such. I picked out that sword partly because I didn't know what to look for and didn't have much money to get thrown around for this kind of thing. So getting some kind of money's worth is a concern. I'm just wondering if I now own an SLO or if I can actually cut non-extreme objects (eventually with proper technique).
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 28, 2008 4:58:08 GMT
if ur afraid of vunerable katanas stay away from masahiro fuji elite katana the edge on it bends so easily its sad, and also it bent as soon as i killed a tree At the risk of sounding like a semprini, that IS my very first sword I just recieved. Is this one of those freakishly crappy ones or just a techinique issue with the swordsman (Is there a different word for one who weilds a katana?)? I'm very green with all this sword talk and issues and such. I picked out that sword partly because I didn't know what to look for and didn't have much money to get thrown around for this kind of thing. So getting some kind of money's worth is a concern. I'm just wondering if I now own an SLO or if I can actually cut non-extreme objects (eventually with proper technique). Kinghyren, Masahiro brand katana have been accepted as low priced and questionable in quality. That being said, some katana that are a good value for the price can be found within their lineup. I will caution against killing a tree with it. lol As for such activities - I've taken a Hanwei Practical Pro to a buckthorn bush and prevailed without any damage to the katana. That is due to the quality of the blade. I wouldn't expect the same result with a Masahiro or even a Musashi blade (aside from their high end blades). I have a Musashi Ehada (retails for around $60). I got it second hand from this forum and since then I've put it through its paces. Tatami, newspaper, plastic bottles and even old sandals have been cut with this sword. Its faired very well. I wouldn't however compare it in quality to even the lowest of Hanwei's offerings in quality. For the price though, the Ehada was a good buy. You should be alright with your Masahiro (you'll probably find yourself needing to polish the sword a bit more often than with a true DH blade) if you do a lot of cutting but so long as you don't try to chop down trees or branches you shouldn't find the blade failing on you... now all that is said assuming that you have practiced cutting and that you have the control and form necessary to be successful at cutting. -Sam
|
|