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Post by johnlundemo1 on Dec 2, 2008 5:05:29 GMT
First post here so, hi everybody!! The other day I did three katana blades in water quench. The daisho set was 1095FG steel with 3/8 kisane at machi, ended up with gentile sori of about 1/2", has high shinogi and o kssaki. I love this new steel alot, got it from Aldo, pretty thick but perfect for katana. You can get a super diamond cross section and high shinogi and put a ton of distal in there and the extra fine grain high carbon steel makes for a super hard sword. I also did a Admiral 1075 steel blade, same steel batch as Sam was using in 5/16th, and it has a Koshi sori, which is very hard to get with water quench. Alot of folks nowdays are using the Parks 50 or hot salt for katana and they get good results with no fear of cracking. You have to forge the curvature into the sword before quench with that. When using Water, you start with a straight sword and get the curve in the quench. Scarry as it curves down at first and then starts to pull up and controling it is a trick. There is also alot of things you have to do to the steel before clay to help in keeping it from cracking and tons of other techniques I can't go into now. I have done both methods and totally preffer water quench for hamon sporting blades, plus the high carbon 1XXX steels love water and give a super hard edge with mucho activity you crave. Gonna make solid bronze habaki ( as opposed to soldered copper) and my own polish, maybe even Odin Ronin mount or something depending on whether a customer comes around or if I have to complete first. Any one else use water around here?
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slav
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Katsujin No Ken
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Post by slav on Dec 2, 2008 6:11:52 GMT
Mr. Lundemo, what a pleasant surprise! Welcome to the forum and I hope to see a lot more of you around here!
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Post by Deleted on Dec 2, 2008 6:14:24 GMT
First post here so, hi everybody!! The other day I did three katana blades in water quench. The daisho set was 1095FG steel with 3/8 kisane at machi, ended up with gentile sori of about 1/2", has high shinogi and o kssaki. I love this new steel alot, got it from Aldo, pretty thick but perfect for katana. You can get a super diamond cross section and high shinogi and put a ton of distal in there and the extra fine grain high carbon steel makes for a super hard sword. I also did a Admiral 1075 steel blade, same steel batch as Sam was using in 5/16th, and it has a Koshi sori, which is very hard to get with water quench. Alot of folks nowdays are using the Parks 50 or hot salt for katana and they get good results with no fear of cracking. You have to forge the curvature into the sword before quench with that. When using Water, you start with a straight sword and get the curve in the quench. Scarry as it curves down at first and then starts to pull up and controling it is a trick. There is also alot of things you have to do to the steel before clay to help in keeping it from cracking and tons of other techniques I can't go into now. I have done both methods and totally preffer water quench for hamon sporting blades, plus the high carbon 1XXX steels love water and give a super hard edge with mucho activity you crave. Gonna make solid bronze habaki ( as opposed to soldered copper) and my own polish, maybe even Odin Ronin mount or something depending on whether a customer comes around or if I have to complete first. Any one else use water around here? Welcome John!! Awesome to have a(nother) maker of your caliber in here =). We're on a few other forums together but never really spoke lol. Anyhow...I recently started making Japanese blades (two), and have only ever used a water quench. Sam's helped me a lot with the interrupted water/oil thing, and in taking his advice (among others), the second of my two blades lived through it lol. I didn't get the hamon I wanted...so now I get to see if it's going to live through it again tomorrow =). Steel is 1060. Anyway, I can't wait to see more of your work here. All of your blades are absolutely beautiful (I've seen a lot of them over on Karls forum/website, as well as your site of course), and I think I will be sucking up every single thing I can learn from you gratefully lol. Welcome again!! Cris
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Post by Dan Davis on Dec 2, 2008 11:45:00 GMT
John, Long time no see. Or speak. Or email. Hell, it's been a while (years). Glad you're here. This has to be one of the best forums around for bladesmithing info.
Pics, please.
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Post by johnlundemo1 on Dec 2, 2008 13:33:55 GMT
Hi, thanks for the warm welcome guys! As far as pictures go, that is a problem. Got a digital so I'm going to have to ask for some help in posting, get back to ya on that. I'm sending 4 swords out this week and they are going to get posted by customers, I'll make sure to send em your way. I'll take a few pics of the samurai's get them up soon somehow, stepson or something:)
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Post by johnlundemo1 on Dec 2, 2008 13:39:45 GMT
First post here so, hi everybody!! The other day I did three katana blades in water quench. The daisho set was 1095FG steel with 3/8 kisane at machi, ended up with gentile sori of about 1/2", has high shinogi and o kssaki. I love this new steel alot, got it from Aldo, pretty thick but perfect for katana. You can get a super diamond cross section and high shinogi and put a ton of distal in there and the extra fine grain high carbon steel makes for a super hard sword. I also did a Admiral 1075 steel blade, same steel batch as Sam was using in 5/16th, and it has a Koshi sori, which is very hard to get with water quench. Alot of folks nowdays are using the Parks 50 or hot salt for katana and they get good results with no fear of cracking. You have to forge the curvature into the sword before quench with that. When using Water, you start with a straight sword and get the curve in the quench. Scarry as it curves down at first and then starts to pull up and controling it is a trick. There is also alot of things you have to do to the steel before clay to help in keeping it from cracking and tons of other techniques I can't go into now. I have done both methods and totally preffer water quench for hamon sporting blades, plus the high carbon 1XXX steels love water and give a super hard edge with mucho activity you crave. Gonna make solid bronze habaki ( as opposed to soldered copper) and my own polish, maybe even Odin Ronin mount or something depending on whether a customer comes around or if I have to complete first. Any one else use water around here? Welcome John!! Awesome to have a(nother) maker of your caliber in here =). We're on a few other forums together but never really spoke lol. Anyhow...I recently started making Japanese blades (two), and have only ever used a water quench. Sam's helped me a lot with the interrupted water/oil thing, and in taking his advice (among others), the second of my two blades lived through it lol. I didn't get the hamon I wanted...so now I get to see if it's going to live through it again tomorrow =). Steel is 1060. Anyway, I can't wait to see more of your work here. All of your blades are absolutely beautiful (I've seen a lot of them over on Karls forum/website, as well as your site of course), and I think I will be sucking up every single thing I can learn from you gratefully lol. Welcome again!! Cris Wow 1060 is cool stuff, not too high not too low not alot of un needed junk in it. I know a few guys that preffer it to all others. Hard to find ain't it? Haven't really looked hard but I know Admiral doesn't carry it.
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Post by Brendan Olszowy on Dec 2, 2008 13:52:56 GMT
Hey John, Welcome to the forum. You'll find a pretty enthusiastic bunch here in the blade making forum of SBG, so you'll be a welcome addition to the foray. Information is offered very enthusiasticaly here, it is a great place for people to develop their craft. I look forward to picking up some tips from you.
Regarding steels, here in Australia we really have one choice - BHP steels XK9258S. Nothing else is readily available, unless imported.
Composition of XK9258S: C 0.55 - 0.65 Si 1.6-2.2 Mn 0.7 - 1.05 P Max 0.04 S Max 0.04 Hamons are out too, which sucks.
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Post by Matt993f.o.d on Dec 2, 2008 18:32:23 GMT
Welcome, Mr Lundemo. Great to see another well known smith join the forum. I look forward to your input here.
Looking forward to seeing the Kat, too.
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Marc Ridgeway
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"The best cost less when you buy it the first time." - Papabear
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Post by Marc Ridgeway on Dec 2, 2008 18:38:28 GMT
John...
Glad you decided to drop in. welcome!!
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Post by Deleted on Dec 2, 2008 18:42:52 GMT
Wow 1060 is cool stuff, not too high not too low not alot of un needed junk in it. I know a few guys that preffer it to all others. Hard to find ain't it? Haven't really looked hard but I know Admiral doesn't carry it. Yeah from my understanding, plain 1060 is a bear to find. Mine are in the form of new rail anchor clips. They're just over 2lbs a piece (just big enough for a small katana if broke down with few heats). The manufacturer, UnitRail told me they are '1060 without any added alloys'. Since 1060 is a simple steel lol...well, that means it shouldn't have any added alloys eh lol? The steel seems decent so far (better than rail spikes lol)...you just have to be willing to either break them down by hand, or have a power hammer. I'm picking up some of the Admiral 1075/1080 instead this week lol. Breaking these down by hand is getting old =). Anyhow, I'd love to see the blades as well. If you'd like to email them to me I'd be glad to post them up for you. The email is crisnrachel@hotmail.com. Just let me know what you need for captions and I'll post them right up! Cris
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Post by johnlundemo1 on Dec 3, 2008 14:00:44 GMT
Good looking out Chris. I suppose though if I could use the computer to send pics to folks then I could most likely post them on a forum, but I can't even do that. If I could do that then I could have more of my swords in my website as well and maybe even a new site. I need the video proffessor, or perhaps a friend with alot of patients to teach me. Whenever I'vs sat down with people they are so fast you cannot follow and they are usually loath to answer stupid questions like "what is a browser". Back to swords. I was looking at the habaki making threads and it seems to me that traditionally made ones are harder then making them from solid blocks of bronze which is how I do it. I drill a hole through the bronze cut my bandsaw blade and run an end through hole then re weld the blade. Cut out nakago slot and cut bandsaw blade. File inside slot till it fits perfect up to machi. Then shape the outside on grinder, hand file designs polish etc. A solid bronze habaki would be very difficult to break. I don't think that cast habaki can compare. Folks who solder weld habaki together would say thiers is stronger,, people who weld tangs together say thier welds are strong as well. My point it if you don't have to weld why do it when can be made from solid. Thoughts?
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Post by Deleted on Dec 3, 2008 14:17:42 GMT
Really? Solid sounds stronger to me too. Unless they use two materials for a composite effect? Or perhaps the stress on the habaki can be more directed to the "proper" stress point if it is welded. I don't really know, just guessing. Is there a difference in the strength of cast versus hammered bronze? I bet brotherbanzai would know this (about bronze anyhow). Welcome to the SBG forum johnlundemo. I have admired pictures of your work all over the web. Thanks for chiming in here, I am sure your expertise will be very welcome regarding pictures and help. We would love to see them (of course). If you need help, just ask, people are very helpful here.
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Post by Matthew Stagmer on Dec 3, 2008 16:02:59 GMT
Sweet. Glad you are posting here now John.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 3, 2008 16:20:10 GMT
Good looking out Chris. I suppose though if I could use the computer to send pics to folks then I could most likely post them on a forum, but I can't even do that. If I could do that then I could have more of my swords in my website as well and maybe even a new site. I need the video proffessor, or perhaps a friend with alot of patients to teach me. Whenever I'vs sat down with people they are so fast you cannot follow and they are usually loath to answer stupid questions like "what is a browser". Back to swords. I was looking at the habaki making threads and it seems to me that traditionally made ones are harder then making them from solid blocks of bronze which is how I do it. I drill a hole through the bronze cut my bandsaw blade and run an end through hole then re weld the blade. Cut out nakago slot and cut bandsaw blade. File inside slot till it fits perfect up to machi. Then shape the outside on grinder, hand file designs polish etc. A solid bronze habaki would be very difficult to break. I don't think that cast habaki can compare. Folks who solder weld habaki together would say thiers is stronger,, people who weld tangs together say thier welds are strong as well. My point it if you don't have to weld why do it when can be made from solid. Thoughts? LOL that's great John =). On the habaki thing...I'm 100% sure yours is stronger than a cast habaki. Whether stronger than soldered...I don't know? Maybe both your method and the soldered method are simply stronger than required when fit properly. I've seen a few broken cast habaki on various forums, but never a broken or split soldered or solid. There's only a few guys I know of making solid ones though =). Unless you have the tools it would be a pain I think lol...jewelers saws are sort of unhappy to be used at the best of times...when cutting through what's effectively 1" or so thick material (the length of the habaki) I don't think I could buy enough blades for mine =). So my first habaki will be hard silver soldered. Once I get a real shop setup...I may get around to making a solid one though. I can see some really cool ways you could modify it in design to make it look different/better...that you couldn't with a soldered habaki. Hmmm... Cris
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Post by Matt993f.o.d on Dec 3, 2008 21:54:01 GMT
The habaki maker in "The craft of the Japanese sword" hard-solders his habaki. Hell, if the professionals do it, its good enough for me! ;D
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Post by brotherbanzai on Dec 3, 2008 22:07:20 GMT
Hi John, cool to see more of you well known guys showing up here!
On the habaki, cast bronze is not known for being especially strong. If you're starting from a hunk of bronze stock it was likely cast and then drawn out to shape (rod, square bar stock, or whatever) so it's like "forged" bronze which would be stronger than cast bronze. Soldered is not as strong as solid and welded, if done properly, would be the same as solid. If you weld it with a tig welder and use the same alloy filler rod you end up with a homogeneous piece of metal that is the same as if it was solid to begin with.
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Post by johnlundemo1 on Dec 4, 2008 18:59:31 GMT
The habaki maker in "The craft of the Japanese sword" hard-solders his habaki. Hell, if the professionals do it, its good enough for me! ;D Well thanks for the reply. I am a proffesional and I preffer solid to soldered. You want solid you come to me otherwise seek elsewhere. I don't do soldering except on chape tips, no biggy. Sounds kinda like you are saying they who do soldered are proffesional since they did the picture thread and others who don't are not. Just a FYI you sound like you are sold. This is cool I see how you might feels these are better since everyone but a few does em that way. But, there are other ways and I do solid but know there are other ways as well.
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Post by Matt993f.o.d on Dec 4, 2008 22:15:24 GMT
The habaki maker in "The craft of the Japanese sword" hard-solders his habaki. Hell, if the professionals do it, its good enough for me! ;D Well thanks for the reply. I am a proffesional and I preffer solid to soldered. You want solid you come to me otherwise seek elsewhere. I don't do soldering except on chape tips, no biggy. Sounds kinda like you are saying they who do soldered are proffesional since they did the picture thread and others who don't are not. Just a FYI you sound like you are sold. This is cool I see how you might feels these are better since everyone but a few does em that way. But, there are other ways and I do solid but know there are other ways as well. No, thats not the case. I'm not really fussed what construction method is used. I don't have a preference. Nah I'm not swayed by pictures only. Hell, *I* take pictures of my work, and I'm still firmly an amateur!
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Post by Deleted on Dec 6, 2008 0:36:22 GMT
johnlundemo, I had read on SFI you quench into water then into oil qoute "I do a snap quench in hot oil after water quench and straighten."? Could you elaborate more on that? I thought you meant by your title post that you had done it only in water alone. Did the japanese use oil as well traditionally?
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Post by johnlundemo1 on Dec 6, 2008 5:48:46 GMT
johnlundemo, I had read on SFI you quench into water then into oil qoute "I do a snap quench in hot oil after water quench and straighten."? Could you elaborate more on that? I thought you meant by your title post that you had done it only in water alone. Did the japanese use oil as well traditionally? Hi The snap quench they call it is used alot. What happens is the water brings out the full hardness and before totally cool, while blade is still steaming you can emerse in hot oil around 400 and pull it out and fix whatever warpage there is before fulley cooled to room temp. Don't have much time. After totally cool then I do a tempering cycle. I always polish the drawfile the edge and dress it before I do the clay coat and make sure all the sanding grains near the edge are running parrallel to edge. This to insure that a crack has no place to start in the quench. This will help in pure water or heavy brine quenching.
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