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Post by MessengerofDarkness on Sept 14, 2024 3:25:16 GMT
So after contacting a decent amount of Chinese blade vendors I was finally able to find a forge that has agreed to be able to produce a nodachi blade that has a sufficient length for my purposes - specifically here, the bare blade itself will have a length of 175cm from kissaki to nakago. It will also be monotempered s7 steel, as I was told that an oil quench was the only viable way for them to be able to produce a blade at that length.
However, from there the rest of the project has become somewhat nebulous.
I had originally thought that a bo-hi would be necessary on a blade of such length simply to make it light enough to comfortably wield, although I am uncertain as to whether or not any structural compromises a bo-hi would introduce would outstrip any changes in balance the lightening of the blade would offer.
Furthermore, there is the matter of the tsuka assembly. While most Chinese forges do seem to somewhat be stepping up their game, for a blade of this length I would prefer to know that things were simply done right. As a result I've considered and even contacted z-sey (not the people who are making the blade) to see if they would be amenable to handling the tsuka assembly, to which I have received a tentative yes thus far.
From there I think it would be most cost effective to let the original forge complete the saya themselves, as tasking z-sey to fully mount the blade would probably be cost prohibitive.
At this point the rest of the details are up in the air, though I would very much like to hear what anyone has to say and whether or not anyone has any tips or suggestions before things proceed.
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Post by larason2 on Sept 14, 2024 14:44:18 GMT
For an Odachi that long, I don't think bohi will matter that much. Japanese swords generally have quite a bit of mass toward the tip, so I don't think bo hi is going to make it significantly lighter feeling. No matter what it's going to be heavy to swing! I like odachi because of the coolness factor, but I don't think they're very practical blades. What forge is making it? I think having them make the saya is the right call, and personally I'd let them make a tsuka too, why not? It won't be that expensive. If you're not satisfied you can always send it to Zsey and you'll have two, or you can send it to another custom maker state side. Sending back to China can be a coin toss, though with Zsey handling it might be ok.
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Post by MessengerofDarkness on Sept 14, 2024 17:35:20 GMT
For an Odachi that long, I don't think bohi will matter that much. Japanese swords generally have quite a bit of mass toward the tip, so I don't think bo hi is going to make it significantly lighter feeling. No matter what it's going to be heavy to swing! I like odachi because of the coolness factor, but I don't think they're very practical blades. What forge is making it? I think having them make the saya is the right call, and personally I'd let them make a tsuka too, why not? It won't be that expensive. If you're not satisfied you can always send it to Zsey and you'll have two, or you can send it to another custom maker state side. Sending back to China can be a coin toss, though with Zsey handling it might be ok. Shipping blades into China is a crapshoot, so the only way I was able to get Z-sey on board with this was by offering to have the initial forge send it directly to them without the need to go through customs. I was thinking of having a partial bo-hi that only starts around 6" or so above the habaki to give the base of the blade a bit more rigidity, rather then have it continue down into the nakago. As far as the tsuka is concerned, I've just grown sick of subpar tsuka work from most Chinese forges that I'd rather just pay the extra funds to make sure it's done right and solid the first time around. IMO around half of a katana's entire budget should go into the tsuka assembly alone, and not just schlep a subpar handle unto a decent blade. That's why I'd think Z-sey would be the best people to handle the tsuka assembly, and they would likely be cheaper then if I were to send the blade to someone in the States like the mystery man in black to make a custom tsuka. The blade/saya is going to be made by Sheng, and I might pay the extra for a higher quality habaki from him too. His was really the only forge I was able to find that was able to/willing to forge a blade that long. The nakago will be approximately 43cm with a 132cm nagasa, making the bare blade ~175cm. |
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Post by larason2 on Sept 15, 2024 4:02:48 GMT
Interesting, thanks. You don't hear Sheng mentioned a lot here, that's interesting they'll accept any custom blade. That does make sense shipping to Zsey before shipping to you. You're not wrong that most Chinese forges put furniture second, and that Zsey's high end furniture is pretty nice. I hope it comes out well! Swords that long aren't easy to come by.
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Post by MessengerofDarkness on Sept 15, 2024 16:07:12 GMT
Interesting, thanks. You don't hear Sheng mentioned a lot here, that's interesting they'll accept any custom blade. That does make sense shipping to Zsey before shipping to you. You're not wrong that most Chinese forges put furniture second, and that Zsey's high end furniture is pretty nice. I hope it comes out well! Swords that long aren't easy to come by. He definitely won't accept any custom blade; I had to go over numerous different options before he finally got back to me with confirmation that he could make a blade as long as I was looking for. In fact, I was originally looking for somebody to make a blade that was ~210cm long, but Sheng was quite literally the only blade producer that would even agree to 175cm, which was on the smaller side of acceptable for my needs. And even then we were limited to spring steel only; meaning it couldn't be differentially tempered. I also know that Sheng has earned something of a dubious reputation for himself over the years, but from what I've seen most of his detractors do seem to more or less agree that he can still produce solid blades (even if other aspects of his swords tend to be lacking). That's also partly why I felt that having another maker handle the tsuka work would take much of the chance factor out of a project like this. |
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Post by larason2 on Sept 15, 2024 20:22:20 GMT
Haha, I was just going by what I saw on their instagram profile, where it said they do any custom blade! Equipment limits the length of a blade you can produce. I can't heat treat a sword, because my forge isn't big enough! The huge swords they made in Japan they forged and heat treated by making a big outdoor pit furnace, but it must not have been easy! Then they must have made an artificial pond or forged it by a river or lake to quench it. They would have needed several people to do everything, and the failure rate would have still been high! Still, it's a cool blade. That's part of the reason they're hard to get!
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Post by Jussi Ekholm on Sept 19, 2024 14:41:47 GMT
It will be an interesting project and I will definately keep an eye on this. One slight challenge on a blade of this size would finding proper fittings for it as they most likely will need to be custom made or be selected from extremely few excisting possibilities due to their size vs. average katana fittings. As for a proper ōdachi length is not the only thing that is upscaled. So lots of custom fitting will be needed for the project.
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Post by MessengerofDarkness on Sept 19, 2024 21:37:38 GMT
It will be an interesting project and I will definately keep an eye on this. One slight challenge on a blade of this size would finding proper fittings for it as they most likely will need to be custom made or be selected from extremely few excisting possibilities due to their size vs. average katana fittings. As for a proper ōdachi length is not the only thing that is upscaled. So lots of custom fitting will be needed for the project. I haven't discussed the fuchi kashira much yet, but from what I've seen Z-sey does seem to have access to higher quality components then most Chinese forges. They have also tentatively agreed to make the tsuka, so I would imagine that they have the ability to procure appropriate furniture for the specs I've outlined to them. Generally I do prefer a more slender tsuka though, so if I can get away with having a more regular proportioned tsuka then I will (other then length, of course). I have also decided to go with a bo-hi, though as a concession it will only begin ~30cm above the habaki to help keep the base of the blade a bit more rigid. I don't want wobble city haha The tsukamaki is still a bit up in the air, though I'm thinking of going with a dark blue silk ito over aged same sort of look. |
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Post by MessengerofDarkness on Sept 23, 2024 23:17:37 GMT
Finally got confirmation that Z-sey is on board with handling the tsuka work and tsuba, now I'll be coordinating with Sheng about the blade and saya. The blade, premium saya and higher quality habaki will be about $680 USD, and the starting point for Z-sey to make the tsuka will be about $200 (not including the tsuba, fuchi kashira, and menuki), so all things considered I should have a pretty nice nodachi for around ~1K USD. Here's a picture of some of Sheng's nicer habaki that he sent me.  |
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