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Post by stalkerfromtheearth on Jul 17, 2024 19:03:08 GMT
So I recently got a w2 katana with hamon, however it currently has something between a satin and mirror finish. Thus makes it so any activity is hard to see. It came with some slight blemishes so I was planning on polishing it anyway. But now I was wondering what the best way would be to show off the hamon activity and other things. I have japanese stones that I have some experience with would this be the best option?
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Post by treeslicer on Jul 17, 2024 20:49:47 GMT
So I recently got a w2 katana with hamon, however it currently has something between a satin and mirror finish. Thus makes it so any activity is hard to see. It came with some slight blemishes so I was planning on polishing it anyway. But now I was wondering what the best way would be to show off the hamon activity and other things. I have japanese stones that I have some experience with would this be the best option? Maybe. A lot depends on the stones, how you use them, and the sort of blade you're working on. As can be seen at the bottom, I've has some luck with jito and hato uchigumori fingerstones.
Hataraki, called "activities" in English, require more than just differential hardening. To have interesting hataraki, the steel needs to be multiply folded, as well as subjected to the "shock" of a well-managed traditional water quench.. Blades produced from homogeneous high carbon mill steel (such as W2, T10, 1095, and the like) primarily by rolling and material removal, followed by a differential water quench, show a pronounced hamon line ("nioiguchi"), but not much else. If the quench was timidly done to avoid production loss, the hamon itself can be indistinct.
Hataraki are crystallization phenomena that propagate along inconsistencies in the steel that are created by folding. The "type examples" or "poster children" for this are nihonto, which are forged from Japanese tamahagane by folding the billet in half, welding it to itself, and drawing it out again over and over, usually 8 to 16 times. Given the large number of the resulting layers and the many crystallization nuclei contributed by impurities left from the tatara smelting process, nihonto blades provide plenty of opportunities for activities to develop. A very good second best is a water quenched "clay tempered" "folded steel" Chinese (usually Longquan) factory produced Japanese-style blade. I own a few real beauties, covered in flashy hataraki of all types, that are Chinese folded 1060 or 1095.
If folded, your W2 blade might be hiding some good hataraki. If not, you could be wasting your time, though you might bring the nioguchi out stronger with the right techniques.
Here's some examples of hataraki types, and one shot of 2 of my Longquan swords and a koto nihonto on the bottom. The one on top is a homogeneous 1095 blade showing mostly the nioiguchi. The next one is heavily folded 1095, and shows all manner of stuff including ara-nie, kinsuji, inazuma, and even some utsuri. The one on the bottom is a very o-suriage and much-polished blade which is probably what's left of a Yamashiro style tachi, and Kamakura or earlier in age.
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Post by stalkerfromtheearth on Jul 17, 2024 21:25:07 GMT
Thanks for your reply! If I understand correctly, what you basically recommend is to just give this blade a mirror finish? Right?
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Post by treeslicer on Jul 17, 2024 21:54:16 GMT
Thanks for your reply! If I understand correctly, what you basically recommend is to just give this blade a mirror finish? Right? No. Examine it closely in full sun and also with a flashlight in dim conditions to see what's there. If you see anything good, bring it out with differential polishing using fingerstones, slurry, and powdered abrasives. I do sashikomi style polishing with emphasis on hazuya and nugui. An alternative common on this forum is a light acid etch, though sword snobs frown on it. If anything is there, you'll see it when very slight relief appears between harder and softer features. A mirror polish hides everything almost as much as scratches do.
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Post by stalkerfromtheearth on Jul 17, 2024 22:07:14 GMT
Ok thanks! I'll try to make some good pictures on Friday and I'll post them here. I forgot to add that the blade is made by przemek. I think this adds some info as well.
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Post by treeslicer on Jul 17, 2024 22:08:37 GMT
BUMP!!!! BE SURE AND READ MY LAST EDIT WITH THE LINKS
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Post by treeslicer on Jul 17, 2024 22:13:50 GMT
Ok thanks! I'll try to make some good pictures on Friday and I'll post them here. I forgot to add that the blade is made by przemek. I think this adds some info as well. I wish you'd said that first. Approach that blade with the care and caution you'd show a nihonto. I look forward to the pics.
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Post by larason2 on Jul 18, 2024 4:14:20 GMT
I agree, go slowly and use plenty of caution. Use light pressure with every stone, pushing hard is the sure way to burnish/ruin it. The problem with acid etches is they always come out blotchy, and they aren't a sashikomi, so you don't get as much detail. If you're not getting anything with hato/jito, you'll have to take it back to coarser stones to remove the burnished layer. If you're short on stones send me a PM, I've got tons to spare.
W2 is a tough steel to bring out activity on. The large crystals depend on carbon, but tool steels sequester the carbon to form carbides, and there's less left to form big crystals. So just do the best you can.
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Post by zsg1313 on Jul 18, 2024 17:04:19 GMT
So I recently got a w2 katana with hamon, however it currently has something between a satin and mirror finish. Thus makes it so any activity is hard to see. It came with some slight blemishes so I was planning on polishing it anyway. But now I was wondering what the best way would be to show off the hamon activity and other things. I have japanese stones that I have some experience with would this be the best option? This was my Przemek from years ago in W2. IIRC I only wet sanded with high grits, then polishing pastes from Panadyne, then finished with red iron oxide. I wouldnt touch that with stones unless you really know what you are doing. ![iron-oxide4.jpg](//storage.forums.net/1694914/thumbnailer/WTCXfycnAUVxCtWFkETa.png)
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Post by stalkerfromtheearth on Jul 19, 2024 8:59:35 GMT
Ok thanks! I'll try to make some good pictures on Friday and I'll post them here. I forgot to add that the blade is made by przemek. I think this adds some info as well. I wish you'd said that first. Approach that blade with the care and caution you'd show a nihonto. I look forward to the pics. Ok I certainly will!
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Post by stalkerfromtheearth on Jul 19, 2024 9:03:01 GMT
I agree, go slowly and use plenty of caution. Use light pressure with every stone, pushing hard is the sure way to burnish/ruin it. The problem with acid etches is they always come out blotchy, and they aren't a sashikomi, so you don't get as much detail. If you're not getting anything with hato/jito, you'll have to take it back to coarser stones to remove the burnished layer. If you're short on stones send me a PM, I've got tons to spare. W2 is a tough steel to bring out activity on. The large crystals depend on carbon, but tool steels sequester the carbon to form carbides, and there's less left to form big crystals. So just do the best you can. Thanks for the tips! I wasn't planning on doing an acid treatment as I consider it cheating in best case. I'll keep you in mind when I'll need new stones thanks for the offer! I will definitely do my best on this blade.
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Post by stalkerfromtheearth on Jul 19, 2024 9:06:24 GMT
So I recently got a w2 katana with hamon, however it currently has something between a satin and mirror finish. Thus makes it so any activity is hard to see. It came with some slight blemishes so I was planning on polishing it anyway. But now I was wondering what the best way would be to show off the hamon activity and other things. I have japanese stones that I have some experience with would this be the best option? This was my Przemek from years ago in W2. IIRC I only wet sanded with high grits, then polishing pastes from Panadyne, then finished with red iron oxide. I wouldnt touch that with stones unless you really know what you are doing. That looks awesome! Tbf I trust myself more with the stones than I do with the sandpaper and polishing pastes. And yes I realize it sounds crazy.
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Post by stalkerfromtheearth on Jul 19, 2024 20:46:41 GMT
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Post by larason2 on Jul 20, 2024 14:37:09 GMT
There's definitely some activity there. Hard to see in some pictures, since they're out of focus, but I see some. You're looking at the texture of the metal. In the light you were using, the light reflects off some crystals, making them look white on a grey background. That's what you're looking for, but in carbon steel they often look bigger, particularly with higher carbon content close to the hamon. The blade's had an acid wash that's not bad. It's picked up some nioi just under the hamon. They're never going to be huge on steel like this, but this blade is worth a nice polish I'd say. The hamon's gorgeous.
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Post by stalkerfromtheearth on Jul 20, 2024 15:33:12 GMT
Thanks for your input! The hamon is ecxactly one of the reasons I took this blade.
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Post by theforestninja on Aug 1, 2024 21:03:45 GMT
Just know that no monosteel blade will ever have the same activity as a folded blade.
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Post by stalkerfromtheearth on Aug 2, 2024 10:48:57 GMT
Just know that no monosteel blade will ever have the same activity as a folded blade. Oh yes, I am well aware of that. It's mostly just a bringing it back on top thing.
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