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Post by oldscout2 on Jul 4, 2024 15:41:10 GMT
Hi all, I'm slowly restoring my great-great-grandfather's Model 1850. The sword saw service in the Civil War and was worn by him at several notable battles. It had been jammed backwards in the scabbard (by my great-grandfather, to keep my grandfather and his buddies from stabbing stuff with it) and had probably been that way for more than 100 years. I've freed it from the scabbard and am now gently starting to remove rust from the blade, treating the leather, and working on the brass pommel and guard. The tang nut is missing, using a thread gage the best I can estimate is 3/16 but it doesn't seem to quite match.
Does anyone know if the thread for this sword tang may be custom, and where I might procure a replacement?
Thank you kindly!
Best Regards,
Oldscout2
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mrstabby
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Post by mrstabby on Jul 4, 2024 16:38:35 GMT
Hi Normed screws are a relatively new thing, and to my knowledge most of the time every manufacturer had their own thread cutting dies, so I am not surprised you can't find them at the hardware store. Do you know who made it? Maybe post a picture of the markings, a specific manufacturer might be helpful in determining what you need, maybe you can get spare parts. |
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Post by oldscout2 on Jul 4, 2024 18:00:37 GMT
Hi, thank you for the reply. I haven't noted any markings on the blade or tang, the appraiser who looked at the sword theorized that they'd emerge as the rust was cleaned away. Also some silver paint from some point in its past may be covering markings. I'm starting with 3in1 oil and toothbrush, also have some Autosol when I get more comfortable with the process. Attaching some photos for reference. Thanks for your help!   Best, Oldscout2 |
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mrstabby
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Post by mrstabby on Jul 4, 2024 18:11:24 GMT
Marks should be on the blade, close to the guard (looks like they might be under the rust, most of the time there is nothing on the tang) and on the inside of the guard.
Also be careful removing the rust, there might be some etching under it, use something like Evaporust or make your own EDTA solution (google it).
The silver paint probably is nickel plating and should not occlude the makers marks. Well, unless it is really silver paint, then, I honestly don't know...
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Post by treeslicer on Jul 4, 2024 19:50:44 GMT
Hi all, I'm slowly restoring my great-great-grandfather's Model 1850. The sword saw service in the Civil War and was worn by him at several notable battles. It had been jammed backwards in the scabbard (by my great-grandfather, to keep my grandfather and his buddies from stabbing stuff with it) and had probably been that way for more than 100 years. I've freed it from the scabbard and am now gently starting to remove rust from the blade, treating the leather, and working on the brass pommel and guard. The tang nut is missing, using a thread gage the best I can estimate is 3/16 but it doesn't seem to quite match. Does anyone know if the thread for this sword tang may be custom, and where I might procure a replacement? Thank you kindly! Best Regards, Oldscout2 Hi, thank you for the reply. I haven't noted any markings on the blade or tang, the appraiser who looked at the sword theorized that they'd emerge as the rust was cleaned away. Also some silver paint from some point in its past may be covering markings. I'm starting with 3in1 oil and toothbrush, also have some Autosol when I get more comfortable with the process. Attaching some photos for reference. Thanks for your help! Best, Oldscout2 Welcome to the forum! Please take a photo (like the ones below) of the pommel area of the hilt casting, and post it here, so I can figure out what's actually missing and why. The photos below should give some idea of why I'm asking. Specs varied, and what you are wanting may be something that you will have to make. Don't panic, this is do-able. 
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Post by oldscout2 on Jul 5, 2024 16:53:59 GMT
Hi Treeslicer, thank you. Here's a shot of the assembled pommel minus whatever the tang nut would have looked like.  Best, Oldscout2 |
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mrstabby
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Post by mrstabby on Jul 5, 2024 17:09:11 GMT
Hi Treeslicer, thank you. Here's a shot of the assembled pommel minus whatever the tang nut would have looked like. Best, Oldscout2 He wants to see the other side, the pommel where the nut is missing.. |
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Post by oldscout2 on Jul 6, 2024 1:35:34 GMT
 Apologies, here's the correct image. Thanks. Oldscout2 |
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Post by treeslicer on Jul 6, 2024 14:46:05 GMT
Apologies, here's the correct image. Thanks. Oldscout2 Thanks. Okay, IMHO, you're going to have to make the nut from an appropriately sized chunk of brass. How well are you set up for a drill press, drill bits, taps and dies, files, abrasive cloth/paper, small snap ring pliers, and measuring tools? If you have the tools, this is no big deal. You'll make a brass nut to fit the hole and the tang (which may need to be finessed with the next smaller die size to fit), with a couple of small holes or slots on either side of the tapped hole, to tighten it with (using the snap-ring pliers). |
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Post by oldscout2 on Jul 6, 2024 15:08:30 GMT
Hi Treeslicer, thanks for the reply... what you're saying makes perfect sense but it's not in my wheelhouse. I'm a fair jackleg carpenter, plumber, and mechanic but I never got into machine shop and metalworking. I've been searching for suppliers last couple of days and have found a couple that make brass tang nuts, may try an assortment and pick up a set up snap ring pliers to see if I can fit a close-enough match. Appreciate the analysis and advice!
Best,
Oldscout2
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mrstabby
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Post by mrstabby on Jul 6, 2024 15:37:49 GMT
What threads per inch did you measure out?
They look quite shallow, so the fit should be pretty good since brass is pretty easy to mangle the threads if they don't match or you are too forceful.
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Post by oldscout2 on Jul 6, 2024 15:55:36 GMT
3/16 threads loose on the tang but I couldn't find an exact fit. Goal is just to keep the pommel together once I get the sword cleaned up and stabilized though I'd love to find a better match. I may lend it to a museum local to where my great-great-grandfather settled and much of that branch of the family remains. I also have a confederate blade that family legend says was sheared by a cannonball (someone else in the family has the aforementioned cannonball), but the appraiser and I agree the sword was much more likely disabled at the end of the war, likely run over by a heavy wagon to sever the tip.
Again thank you mrstabby and treeslicer for the sounding board and advice!
Best,
Oldscout2
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mrstabby
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Post by mrstabby on Jul 6, 2024 16:07:48 GMT
3/16 threads loose on the tang but I couldn't find an exact fit. Goal is just to keep the pommel together once I get the sword cleaned up and stabilized though I'd love to find a better match. I may lend it to a museum local to where my great-great-grandfather settled and much of that branch of the family remains. I also have a confederate blade that family legend says was sheared by a cannonball (someone else in the family has the aforementioned cannonball), but the appraiser and I agree the sword was much more likely disabled at the end of the war, likely run over by a heavy wagon to sever the tip. Again thank you mrstabby and treeslicer for the sounding board and advice! Best, Oldscout2 You need to measure with calipers how thick it is between two high spots, 2 low spots and how many threads per inch there are and tell that to the person making it for you. Might not even be the problem that it is an abnorm thread pitch but just an abnorm screw size. |
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Post by eastman on Jul 6, 2024 16:38:35 GMT
Auto part stores will carry thread pitch gauges (a folded sheet metal handle with flip out toothed "blades" with different thread pitches).
If 3/16" is a little loose, then possibly a #8 in modern machine screw standards
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Post by Mark Millman on Jul 6, 2024 22:48:25 GMT
Dear oldscout2,
Don't forget to try metric threading sizes. If the blade is imported, then it's very likely that the threading is metric. At the time, even the U.S. Federal armories used the metric system.
I hope this proves helpful.
Best,
Mark Millman
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mrstabby
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Post by mrstabby on Jul 7, 2024 7:14:05 GMT
Dear oldscout2, Don't forget to try metric threading sizes. If the blade is imported, then it's very likely that the threading is metric. At the time, even the U.S. Federal armories used the metric system. I hope this proves helpful. Best, Mark Millman Absolutely yes, but his is why I said to measure ecactly. Easier to measure and google what it could be than just going and trying all the nuts to find one that fits. |
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