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Post by Brother Knight on Jun 25, 2024 2:05:04 GMT
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Post by Brother Knight on Jun 25, 2024 2:13:12 GMT
I see there is a beginner's forum that would be more appropriate for this thread. I'll use that next time..
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eastman
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Post by eastman on Jun 25, 2024 2:48:21 GMT
it doesn't seem right to me, especially the blade. Maybe a late 19th century or early 20th century repro?
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Post by Brother Knight on Jun 25, 2024 2:53:32 GMT
It certainly doesn't seem very functional unless Goliath was using it. Did they make wall hanger swords 400 years ago? That's my only other hope of it being original..
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Post by bas on Jun 25, 2024 3:02:07 GMT
Hello and welcome to the forum. As far as I'm concerned you posted in exactly the right area of the forum as you'll get more experienced collectors here. As for your question, I choose option three, 0% This is obviously a modern reproduction from some hobbyist who has taste for copying old swords. But to be honest I would have choosen a fourth option; 'This is a poor modern replica made by someone with little understanding of period swords'. Sorry to be so brutal but there isn't much correct with this sword. Flaws: - The grip wire is wrong, it should be finer and have turks head knots at each end
- There is clear evidence of modern welding on the guard and where an angle grinder has been used to clean up the welds
- The pommel is too small
- The guard shape is wrong, it doesn't flow like it should.
- There is no room to fit an index finger across the quillon
- It looks like the blade is attached by a screw in tang
- There are no fullers in the blade and the profile looks wrong, it looks like a slab of metal
- The engraving looks like it was cut with a dremill and filled in with a gold marker. Also gilt is extremely delicate, it wouldn't have lasted 400 years in this condition. If it was gold or copper inlay then it would be flush with the blade.
- There is no protuding ecusson
- The shoulder of the blade should be just above the guard.
Those are most of the glaringly obvious mistakes... but there are more, if you were sold this sword on the understanding that it's a genuine antique, then you should return it for a refund. However, also keep in mind that if you are looking to buy a genuine 17th Century swept hilt rapier, your entry point begins at US$2,000 and goes up from there.
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Post by bas on Jun 25, 2024 3:03:09 GMT
it doesn't seem right to me, especially the blade. Maybe a late 19th century or early 20th century repro? Not even early 20th Century, you can see where power tools have been used in it's construction.
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Post by bas on Jun 25, 2024 3:07:01 GMT
It certainly doesn't seem very functional unless Goliath was using it. Did they make wall hanger swords 400 years ago? That's my only other hope of it being original..
I'm sorry to say this, but there is zero chance this is original.
When you say the sword weighs 5lbs, did you measure it on a scale or is that a guess? My heaviest sword is a swept-hilted rapier and it weighs just shy of 3lbs. The majority of my other (antique) swords are under a 2.2lbs.
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Post by Brother Knight on Jun 25, 2024 3:12:02 GMT
Thanks for the honesty. Yeah the guy who sold it on Ebay had it listed as an Original sword from the 17th or 18th century. I should have known if a deal is too good to be true...Anyway thank you for the education and technical detail.
I had looked up the half moon sign and saw it was from a famous sword maker in Toledo and thought I hit the jackpot. I'll probably send this thing back then. Too bad I threw away the box!
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Post by Brother Knight on Jun 25, 2024 3:15:17 GMT
I actually weighed it. It came in at 4 and a half pounds. The fact that the blade starts narrowing even before it gets to the hilt had me starting to question this.
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Post by bas on Jun 25, 2024 3:22:03 GMT
I had looked up the half moon sign and saw it was from a famous sword maker in Toledo and thought I hit the jackpot. I'll probably send this thing back then. Too bad I threw away the box!
We need to be very careful with so called 'famous sword makers' while there were makers renown in period for their quality blades, there were even more that were willing to stamp their blades with said makers marks. Some noteable ones even persisted long after the original maker had passed away.
This particular style of half moon actually becomes quite prevelant in the late 18th Century when a fad for the occult and mystism develops in Western Europe. It is possible that it was used earlier, only most rapier blades I've seen have been fairly plain, with engraving being most uncommon. Typically it would be a makers stamp in the ricasso and or an inscription in the fuller of the blade.
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Post by treeslicer on Jun 25, 2024 4:03:15 GMT
Thanks for the honesty. Yeah the guy who sold it on Ebay had it listed as an Original sword from the 17th or 18th century. I should have known if a deal is too good to be true...Anyway thank you for the education and technical detail. I had looked up the half moon sign and saw it was from a famous sword maker in Toledo and thought I hit the jackpot. I'll probably send this thing back then. Too bad I threw away the box! I agree with everything bas said. Please accept my deepest condolences, and welcome to the forum.
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Post by pellius on Jun 30, 2024 17:46:18 GMT
Welcome to the forum and the sword hobby!
You may want to clean and oil the hilt of your item. From the photos, it looks like red rust may be setting in.
Bummer that it wasn’t what you hoped. Still, sword collecting can be a very rewarding hobby.
I started my antique collecting with 19th Century European military sabers. Many were made to a model or pattern standard, making unsophisticated fakes pretty easy to identify with just a little online research. The buy-in cost(and financial risk)was modest, too. Plus I just like them.
Honestly, genuine historical rapiers were always out of my price range, especially ones in good condition from a solid seller. I definitely get the attraction, though.
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Post by christopher jonasson on Jul 4, 2024 16:20:18 GMT
Hey there and hmm.. Could it be a 19th century repro that someone repaired with a stick welder.. (stick welding was invented around 1910 but the cost of a stick welder back then would be astronomical) Hope you didn´t pay too much for it, actually looks like something I made/assembled from parts in my early teens, the stick welding and "ruby" are dead givaways of its non authenticity as is the weight. A more wary approach to purchases is the way to go as a newbie collector, drop pics in here before commiting, folks on this site are pretty good at spotting fake or repro. Welcome in here.
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Post by Brother Knight on Jul 6, 2024 3:08:57 GMT
I was able to return the sword. If I hadn't paid so much for it I would have kept it around because it did have a cool flowing hilt but I got a new one that I just posted about. I have a few questions on it but I at least think that one is genuinely from the 17th century.
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