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Post by creatineboy on Jun 12, 2024 9:52:16 GMT
Should j buy a sword out of 65mn springsteel? Is it berger or worse than 1095 steel,or damascus? Should I stay away from 65mn steel??? Pleaseexplain and help!
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Post by mrstabby on Jun 12, 2024 10:10:50 GMT
65Mn is a chinese spring steel, ~0,7% carbon, so it can't be as hard as 1095, but tougher. IF correctly heat treated it's a good steel. In swords you don't want maximum hardness anyways - unless you are talking differential hardening where the edge is harder than the spine (Katana) - but I am notsure if 65Mn is differentially hardenable, some steels just can't be.
EDIT: You could compare 65Mn to 1065, but the 65Mn would be slightly better in all metrics due to siilicon and chromium additions.
It's not the steel, it's 90% about the heat treat. A bad heat treat can make any steel bad. Unless it's stainless steel, there are no real "bad" steels for swords, only bad heat treats.
Of course 1095 isn't "the best" here either, since it can be brittle. Most will likely agree, steels between 0,6-0,8% carbon are best suited for swords
ANOTHEREDIT: There are 2 homepages that go quite in debth with steel, zknives and knifesteelnerds. If you are interested and willing to invest some time in learning (klick on them, they are links), those two are some of the best resources - fair warning though, this is a never ending rabbit hole. If not, just ask in the forum again. You can't use the results from knifesteelnerds 1:1 on swords anyways, there is some extrapolation needed since all his measurements are with extremely hard blades, which you likely only see on the edges of japanese swords. |
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Post by creatineboy on Jun 12, 2024 11:29:58 GMT
65Mn is a chinese spring steel, ~0,7% carbon, so it can't be as hard as 1095, but tougher. IF correctly heat treated it's a good steel. In swords you don't want maximum hardness anyways - unless you are talking differential hardening where the edge is harder than the spine (Katana) - but I am notsure if 65Mn is differentially hardenable, some steels just can't be.
EDIT: You could compare 65Mn to 1065, but the 65Mn would be slightly better in all metrics due to siilicon and chromium additions.
It's not the steel, it's 90% about the heat treat. A bad heat treat can make any steel bad. Unless it's stainless steel, there are no real "bad" steels for swords, only bad heat treats.
Of course 1095 isn't "the best" here either, since it can be brittle. Most will likely agree, steels between 0,6-0,8% carbon are best suited for swords
ANOTHEREDIT: There are 2 homepages that go quite in debth with steel, zknives and knifesteelnerds. If you are interested and willing to invest some time in learning (klick on them, they are links), those two are some of the best resources - fair warning though, this is a never ending rabbit hole. If not, just ask in the forum again. You can't use the results from knifesteelnerds 1:1 on swords anyways, there is some extrapolation needed since all his measurements are with extremely hard blades, which you likely only see on the edges of japanese swords. Thank you I understand what you're saying about heat treating.i just found a 65mn longsword I liked,and wanted to know about the steel. Thanks for the advice!! |
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Post by mrstabby on Jun 12, 2024 14:41:48 GMT
As far as I know 65Mn is relatively easy to work with and heat treat, so little to worry unless very low quaility forge. Also the chinese have a lot of experience with it, very widely used there on the cheaper end.
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AndiTheBarvarian
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Post by AndiTheBarvarian on Jun 12, 2024 16:37:17 GMT
65Mn is a good steel for swords.
I'd prefer a longsword made of 65Mn over one made of 1095.
Tougher when heat treated like a longsword should be.
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Post by mrstabby on Jun 12, 2024 17:13:26 GMT
So, looks like 65Mn is basically the same as 1566 which has been extensively used by Hanwei for years. 1066 is exactly the same, used by a bunch of Ukrainian smiths for knives and other blades (BPS knives for example).
I think it should be pretty similar to 5160, a widely used steel, much liked by makes because it's easy to manage.
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Post by AndiTheBarvarian on Jun 12, 2024 17:36:03 GMT
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Post by creatineboy on Jun 19, 2024 11:08:15 GMT
65Mn is a chinese spring steel, ~0,7% carbon, so it can't be as hard as 1095, but tougher. IF correctly heat treated it's a good steel. In swords you don't want maximum hardness anyways - unless you are talking differential hardening where the edge is harder than the spine (Katana) - but I am notsure if 65Mn is differentially hardenable, some steels just can't be.
EDIT: You could compare 65Mn to 1065, but the 65Mn would be slightly better in all metrics due to siilicon and chromium additions.
It's not the steel, it's 90% about the heat treat. A bad heat treat can make any steel bad. Unless it's stainless steel, there are no real "bad" steels for swords, only bad heat treats.
Of course 1095 isn't "the best" here either, since it can be brittle. Most will likely agree, steels between 0,6-0,8% carbon are best suited for swords
ANOTHEREDIT: There are 2 homepages that go quite in debth with steel, zknives and knifesteelnerds. If you are interested and willing to invest some time in learning (klick on them, they are links), those two are some of the best resources - fair warning though, this is a never ending rabbit hole. If not, just ask in the forum again. You can't use the results from knifesteelnerds 1:1 on swords anyways, there is some extrapolation needed since all his measurements are with extremely hard blades, which you likely only see on the edges of japanese swords. Thank you I understand what you're saying about heat treating.i just found a 65mn longsword I liked,and wanted to know about the steel. Thanks for the advice!! Great because a sword I'm buying is 65Mn steel instead of 1095.idk why,but itsays 65mn spring steel.its a 35" blade,9" handle, looks good.is it sound do you think? |
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AndiTheBarvarian
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Post by AndiTheBarvarian on Jun 19, 2024 13:11:38 GMT
65Mn or less correct 65mn is a spring steel, whatever a spring steel exactly is.
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Post by mrstabby on Jun 19, 2024 13:58:04 GMT
Modern spring steels are deeper hardening and easier to hit a spring temper than plain carbon steel. That should be the primary difference.
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Post by AndiTheBarvarian on Jun 20, 2024 5:52:49 GMT
Which means Mn and Si in it, which plain 10xx have often too.
High carbon at lower end = 0,6-0,7 % C also, but 1095 is counted to spring steels too.
Mostly it's the heat treatment.
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Post by mrstabby on Jun 20, 2024 8:51:17 GMT
The specific spring steels will still come out tougher than 10-series. They also have a higher fatigue limit. And the hardening debth makes it easier to make bigger springs which would be hard to achieve with 10 series. On the other hand this makes it hard to get a Hamon with these.
I see it this way: 10-series steel is steel that can make springs, "spring steel" is specifically tweaked to make good springs. The 10s were cobbled together before we knew the physics and chemistry that happens inside the steel.
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Nov 1, 2024 0:13:58 GMT
Nov 1, 2024 0:13:58 GMT
