Marc Ridgeway
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"The best cost less when you buy it the first time." - Papabear
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Post by Marc Ridgeway on Nov 25, 2008 22:41:41 GMT
The samurai, most of whom were Buddhist, and whose religion prohibited them from taking lives, believed their swords to which they were so attached had a soul, and therefore it was the sword as a sort of living entity in itself that did the killing. The idea of physical objects, especially those we use often and to which we are most attached, having a soul is not unheard of in the West, nor a particularly Eastern idea. Do you feel your favorite sword has a soul? I'd answer this for myself but I do not yet own a sword. Soon though, soon.... Jeff Samurai was the name of a small group within the Buke which only referred to men, the Buke were the warrior class, not the samurai the samurai were just part of the buke. Also most Japanese people believed in Shinto, not Buddhism, they believed in Kami (which is plural) Shinto is Japan's native religion and is worlds apart from Buddhism. Shinto is native to Japan... but Zen-Buddhism was the prodominant religion of the Samurai.. and most of Japan... Shinto was earlier... |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 25, 2008 23:12:30 GMT
Samurai was the name of a small group within the Buke which only referred to men, the Buke were the warrior class, not the samurai the samurai were just part of the buke. Also most Japanese people believed in Shinto, not Buddhism, they believed in Kami (which is plural) Shinto is Japan's native religion and is worlds apart from Buddhism. Shinto is native to Japan... but Zen-Buddhism was the prodominant religion of the Samurai.. and most of Japan... Shinto was earlier... Yes, but why the big commotion of Samurai? They weren't the majority of people who used swords, and they weren't the majority of people who fought and died on the battlefield. Shinto is still practiced in Japan today and the majority of the Buke most likely believed in Shinto, Zen isn't the same as Buddhism, it has some mixture of Buddhism but Zen is as much Buddhism as it is Taoism, Confucianism, Indian spiritualism, Shinto and probably a bunch of other things. Zen is Zen, still worlds apart from Buddhism, and Shinto was still the predominant religion in Japan for the majority of Japanese history. As to not deviate from the original Point of the thread I'll take a quote from Go Rin No Sho "While it's different with military equipment, do not be fond of material things". I think even Musashi felt there was more than steel wood and silk that made up his weapons. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 26, 2008 6:29:40 GMT
Hmmm...  I don't belive any of my swords have a 'soul'... nor am I a beliver in inanmate objects possesing a soul. I am opened minded... and I do belive in some level of what people might call 'metaphysics'. Or, it might be more accurate to say I'm open to the possibility of some metaphysical things. As far as swords and souls go... I have the following thoughts... I don't see it as objects/weapons whatever possessing a Soul... but I'm willing to consider some form of psychomitry... the idea that a person who keeps and handles an object leaves impressions of himself/herself on that object. So... a sword that someone practiced with day in day out for years could begain to absorb the essence of the person weilding it... their intent, their mindset... it could become flavord with their 'soul' if you will. A production sword would not, in my opinion, have such an essence invested in at it creation... it's just not handled much or with passion or intesity, so nothing would be left on the blade. A truely well crafted custom sword, on the other hand... I could well belive the creator of such a wepaon may leave a little of themself in the blade. Their creativity, passion, dedication... some of their essence or soul. Any sword, custom or production, kept and used long enough by someone could then absorb some of that persons essence or soul. Some of what makes that person unique could manifest in the sword. Now... I'm not saying this is my belife, only that I'm willing to consider it.  Very nicely put... I suppose if I were asked, I might say much the same thing. It's not so much a belief...more of a concept your mind entertains. When I was 10yrs old, I was playing in the field across the street from an apartment complex we lived in for a short while after moving to Phoenix. I happened across a half buried (looked like it had been there a good long while) fixed blade, single edged clip point knife under a bush. I think we've all seen the kind. It had a leather 'washer' grip, small steel guard, and about a 7" blade. I took it home and showed my Dad, who looked it over and told me to go put it up on my dresser and he'd help me clean it up later. It had clearly seen long use, and had been a bit weathered from laying outside...but was also in overall good condition (Arizona is of course very dry). It was very much like this...only a deeper clip, no metal spacers, and all steel rather than steel and brass. It was also clearly much older, with a carbon steel blade.  The thing creeped me out. Like, seriously creeped me out. Understand, I'd grown up on a historically significant 192,000acre cattle ranch. Knives were tools, guns were tools, and we regularly dug up old weapons from the Pony Express days in our back yard. Nothing, not the old pistols, bowies, NOTHING gave me the creepy feeling this thing did. Later that evening I was up reading a book. My Dad came up and asked me where I'd put the knife. I got up and took it out of the back of the closet where I'd put it (as far away from me as I could...it seriously creeped me out lol). When I brought it to him I was carrying it by the butt cap between two fingers. He asked me what was wrong. I just kind of shrugged my shoulders (not wanting to tell him I was literally scared of it) and handed it to him. He took it...looked it over again...looked at me and said "I see...well, we'll take it down to the Police Department tomorrow'. He took it with him when he went to bed. Turns out, it was the murder weapon in a double homicide. A guy had killed his best friend and girlfriend...thinking they were cheating on him...which apparently they weren't. The knife had been his father's, and grandfather's. So yeah...I'm willing to entertain the thought that the things we do, feel, and think can 'rub off' on our posessions so to speak. Cris |
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Post by shadowhowler on Nov 26, 2008 6:43:25 GMT
So yeah...I'm willing to entertain the thought that the things we do, feel, and think can 'rub off' on our posessions so to speak. Interesting story. Thats the idea of Psychometry in a nutshell... that when people handle objects they leave a bit of themselves behind in the object... the more powerfull the emotions when handling an object (Such as the rage someone might feel when killing out of jealousy) the more 'essence' invested into the handled object. I have had a few experinces similar to what you describe... and thats why I'm open minded about this and other similar subjects. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 26, 2008 9:37:29 GMT
No.
My swords are tools which do my bidding. Just like my firearms, my car, or my Craftsman screwdrivers, they are part of this temporary mortal coil. The sword can be inspired by God, dedicated to God, but can never have the gift of a soul from God because it is a tangible object created by man.
Even the angels do not have souls. Nor does my sword.
But...
I have a soul. As an implement of my actions, my sword can project my soul's energy, mood, intent, etc. So, I like to think of it like this;
My sword does not have a soul of its own, but it can be interconnected with my soul in acting as an extension of myself.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 26, 2008 13:38:19 GMT
I don't know about Soul --- but my sword does like to Rock! |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 26, 2008 16:40:48 GMT
Does a sword have a soul? No, not in spiritual sense, ............. however. If you have ever been in military combat you might have experienced a weird sense of "connection" between yourself and the weapon you trust your life in each and every day. It is hard to put into words, but yea, it is almost like your weapon is an entity and you bond with it, ... it takes care of you and you take care of it. The same is sometimes true of large weapons such as tanks, aircraft, ... etc. Pilots often name and develop a type of feelng or bond with their specific aircraft. Tank crews the same type of thing. I don't feel a real "bond" with any of my current swords, but..... possibly if I was living in a time where I had to carry one daily for defense and survival I suspect a type of bond would develop. Heck, even in some sports you develop this bond. I played college hockey as a young guy and I can assure you I had my favorite stick(s) which (if it lasted long enough) I developed a type of bond with it. I remember one which lasted 12 games, and the only hat trick I ever scored was with that stick. It was my baby and the best hockey I ever played was with that stick. Yea, it had a soul and it and I were one with the force, .......... then it broke and I threw it away!  |
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Post by randomnobody on Nov 27, 2008 1:03:18 GMT
Zectron brings up an interesting point. I can relate to his hockey stick as I've had the same "bonds" with some of my pool sticks. I've been through five or six over the years and currently own three, different sizes, weights, and materials. The simple answers come from the scientific end in that they weigh and balance differently from each other and thus each have their own "feeling" which could make them into individual entities if one so likes. The other lies in psychology, in that depending on what level of game I feel like playing I'll use one or another stick. I have a favorite overall, but some nights we don't really "get along" so well, so I'll tey the others until one hits that mark I'm after. I sometimes feel they have bad moods and don't act properly.
Back to swords, I have an antique and a custom, though I'm not certain I'd say either has a "soul," per se.
Though they, too, seem to have "moods."
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Post by Deleted on Nov 27, 2008 8:36:30 GMT
Does a sword have a soul? No, not in spiritual sense, ............. however. If you have ever been in military combat you might have experienced a weird sense of "connection" between yourself and the weapon you trust your life in each and every day. It is hard to put into words, but yea, it is almost like your weapon is an entity and you bond with it, ... it takes care of you and you take care of it. The same is sometimes true of large weapons such as tanks, aircraft, ... etc. Pilots often name and develop a type of feelng or bond with their specific aircraft. Tank crews the same type of thing. I don't feel a real "bond" with any of my current swords, but..... possibly if I was living in a time where I had to carry one daily for defense and survival I suspect a type of bond would develop. Heck, even in some sports you develop this bond. I played college hockey as a young guy and I can assure you I had my favorite stick(s) which (if it lasted long enough) I developed a type of bond with it. I remember one which lasted 12 games, and the only hat trick I ever scored was with that stick. It was my baby and the best hockey I ever played was with that stick. Yea, it had a soul and it and I were one with the force, .......... then it broke and I threw it away! Your theory is right on. I was a tank crew and we felt some sense of connection our the tanks (we named it "Clubber " cause the gunner like to go to the club and we were in Charlie company so we could not use cool name like Death dealer , death mobile etc.) When the chaplin show up before the manuver we would gathered for quick pray and blessing for successful mission and safe return to our barrack. She ran over a land mine during Desert strom so she alway had problem with hydrolic oil leaking in the turret but we kept her clean the best we could even in the field . I agree that most of us modern, peaceful man can not tell if our sword have soul or not 'cause we did not actually use the swords to defend ourselve or loveone on daily basis ,even my grand ma prefered M1 carbine to deal with rebel and bandit instead of sword  |
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Con
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Post by Con on Nov 29, 2008 2:20:16 GMT
I don't know about a soul, but I certainly get a sense of power whilst weilding it. A hightened sense of things and almost a sort of bloodlust. Sure a sword might not have a soul, but it may lighten your soul. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 29, 2008 2:59:31 GMT
I don't subscribe to that ancient Japanese school of thought, although I can respect it. I believe that a sword is just a tool of war. It is the skill of the man wielding it that determines how effective a sword can be.
What is steel compared to the hand that wields it...
Thulsa Doom
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Post by Deleted on Nov 29, 2008 3:11:51 GMT
I think harmonics of self get caught up in the crystalline structures of steel work, whether it be a sword or jewellery or whatever. The more you handle a sword and work with it the more it attunes itself to your harmonic frequency of self until it becomes and extension of you. So no swords don't have souls but they can have harmonic frequencies.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 30, 2008 0:48:24 GMT
I'm impressed by the number of people here who believe in metaphysical things. I will come right out and say I do too (nihilists point and laugh if you wish) but I'm probably not quite the good christian I was raised to be...my mind is more agnostic theist these days (mostly because I'm tired of fallible human ideas and doctrines making up 99% or more of every religion in the world).
I believe swords as innanimate objects do not have souls, but that when wielded they become an extension of your body and therefore, an extension of the soul as well. A momentary bond at best, broken as soon as you let go of it, but still one that can grow and strengthen over time. However, I agree that lasting 'psychic imprints' can be made, such as the double murder knife mentioned earlier in the thread, but I wouldn't call it a 'soul fragment.'
Likewise, pouring ones own creative abilities into a weapon will probably make it easier for it to 'bond' with you, than a mass production piece. I suppose any weapon or tool can make this bond, but I have never felt it with my firearms. Perhaps I just don't use them as much, but I would never call them an 'extension of my body' the way my sword becomes when I take it in hand. Perhaps a trick shooter who spends years practicing and can hit a target without even aiming (or even without looking at it) would find the gun was an extension of their body, but in normal use they just don't seem to do it...
-Jonathan
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