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Post by Sir Thorfinn on May 7, 2024 20:10:29 GMT
"The Man who Tried to Fight a Shark with a Sword" Do a YouTube search, as the owner blocked crossposting.
Interesting video. And who would have thought?
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LeMal
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Post by LeMal on May 7, 2024 21:32:47 GMT
A little wild, but look what came up right after it when I typed in that search string:
Probably looks a lot like the encounter recorded!
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izzy
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Post by izzy on May 10, 2024 8:46:38 GMT
Sword first if not a sneak attack, then Sharks would win if you stay in the water...more will smell blood and the swarm will have you for dinner. Better have a boat nearby. AFAIK Dolphins hit the sharks with their noses but don't draw blood.
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Post by Sir Thorfinn on May 10, 2024 13:02:30 GMT
I'd like to repeat what my military dive instructors used to say. *in shouted R.Lee Emery voice*
"The Ocean is NOT your environment! Everything in it can outswim you and kick your $emprini! LEAVE IT ALONE!"
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izzy
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Post by izzy on May 10, 2024 13:24:21 GMT
I'd like to repeat what my military dive instructors used to say. *in shouted R.Lee Emery voice* "The Ocean is NOT your environment! Everything in it can outswim you and kick your $emprini! LEAVE IT ALONE!" Steve Irwin comes to mind, you had good instructors.
I had a former University sailing instructor go down in a squall in the Chesapeake bay, don't know if they ever recovered her body, never heard they did. Real shame she gave me a "B" when I deserved a bit less as I would capsize those Prams way too often, a real Sweetheart...
I would rather have an electrical apparatus to shock the shark than a blood drawing spear or sword as first line defense.
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Post by mrstabby on May 10, 2024 16:06:22 GMT
Sharks don't react to the smell of their own blood, ang others only come if they are of a cannibalistic species. And if they were to be frenzied by the smell they would attack the source of the smell. If the shark is really after me I'd rather have a bang stick and end it for good. As to the sword, a dagger might have been a better choice in a 1v1. If you get a murderstroke in with the swords first hit, it works, but then? Moving the sword in the water would be really hard. Most sharks will let go is you hit them in the gills (very sensitive, it's like a combination of solar plexus and balls, very painful with a bit of difficulty breathing) and a knife to the eyes likely also would result in an "that's not worth it nomore" from the shark. The gills are very well supplied by blood as well, so it would likely bleed out within a few minutes from a good cut. If you could keep up the fight long enough is another matter completely.
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Post by treeslicer on May 10, 2024 20:00:18 GMT
If the shark is really after me I'd rather have a bang stick and end it for good. Like!!!!
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Ouroboros
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Post by Ouroboros on May 11, 2024 16:10:23 GMT
If the shark is really after me I'd rather have a bang stick and end it for good. Im a freshwater guy: Great Lakes...sharks are (almost) unheard of in Canada unless you're on the coast, or perhaps St Lawrence or Bay o Fundy/Gulf of Maine. As Im opposed to the idea of being chomped, i will let Ripley explain my position. Nuke the site from orbit...
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izzy
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Post by izzy on May 11, 2024 17:12:11 GMT
Sharks don't react to the smell of their own blood, ang others only come if they are of a cannibalistic species. And if they were to be frenzied by the smell they would attack the source of the smell. If the shark is really after me I'd rather have a bang stick and end it for good. As to the sword, a dagger might have been a better choice in a 1v1. If you get a murderstroke in with the swords first hit, it works, but then? Moving the sword in the water would be really hard. Most sharks will let go is you hit them in the gills (very sensitive, it's like a combination of solar plexus and balls, very painful with a bit of difficulty breathing) and a knife to the eyes likely also would result in an "that's not worth it nomore" from the shark. The gills are very well supplied by blood as well, so it would likely bleed out within a few minutes from a good cut. If you could keep up the fight long enough is another matter completely.
Sharks being bloody cannibals, I would not take the chance, and use something that does not draw blood...getting back to the boat makes more sense to me.
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Post by mrstabby on May 11, 2024 17:54:19 GMT
Sharks don't react to the smell of their own blood, ang others only come if they are of a cannibalistic species. And if they were to be frenzied by the smell they would attack the source of the smell. If the shark is really after me I'd rather have a bang stick and end it for good. As to the sword, a dagger might have been a better choice in a 1v1. If you get a murderstroke in with the swords first hit, it works, but then? Moving the sword in the water would be really hard. Most sharks will let go is you hit them in the gills (very sensitive, it's like a combination of solar plexus and balls, very painful with a bit of difficulty breathing) and a knife to the eyes likely also would result in an "that's not worth it nomore" from the shark. The gills are very well supplied by blood as well, so it would likely bleed out within a few minutes from a good cut. If you could keep up the fight long enough is another matter completely. ...getting back to the boat makes more sense to me. Can't outswim a shark though. The rule of thumb is you have like 10 seconds, if you can get out the water in that time do it, else stay calm ad go slowly towards safety wkile keeping eye contact because they are drawn to splashing sounds. It's quite rare to get attacked by a shark in the first place, more people get struck by lighting. Common knowledge is go for eyes and gills, if there is blood in the water from you already, more from the shark won't aggravate the situation any more. A feeding frenzy is very unlikely with human or shark blood since they aren't their normal food source, barracuda blood seems to really turn them on though. That's kinda the reason shark attacks are so rare, human's don't smell like food, most of these attacks start by "curiousity bites" or someone panicking and splashing around, they are drawn to that because it sound like drowning animals.
Also, yes they eat each other, but most of the time when they are very young. And as adults only very large sharks eat smaller ones. If it's easy prey, of course, but why endanger yourself fighting with an equal opponent.
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izzy
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Post by izzy on May 12, 2024 7:58:01 GMT
...getting back to the boat makes more sense to me. Can't outswim a shark though. The rule of thumb is you have like 10 seconds, if you can get out the water in that time do it, else stay calm ad go slowly towards safety wkile keeping eye contact because they are drawn to splashing sounds. It's quite rare to get attacked by a shark in the first place, more people get struck by lighting. Common knowledge is go for eyes and gills, if there is blood in the water from you already, more from the shark won't aggravate the situation any more. A feeding frenzy is very unlikely with human or shark blood since they aren't their normal food source, barracuda blood seems to really turn them on though. That's kinda the reason shark attacks are so rare, human's don't smell like food, most of these attacks start by "curiousity bites" or someone panicking and splashing around, they are drawn to that because it sound like drowning animals.
Also, yes they eat each other, but most of the time when they are very young. And as adults only very large sharks eat smaller ones. If it's easy prey, of course, but why endanger yourself fighting with an equal opponent.
No one will not out swim a shark. If you re-read my posts, in regards to a sword, after "winning" with a sword or other killing/ blood drawing tool, it would be best to have a boat nearby ( making it to shore is OK as well, but I neglected that). Then in my next post I stated I would prefer an electrical device to stun the shark vs. drawing blood, and still advocated not hanging around (get back to the boat). Again, not to "out run" a shark, but in case there are other sharks in the area.
Shark attacks are not as rare as people think...while most happen near the shore are single bites ( nibbles), even that nibble can cost use of a leg, or severe damage to arteries, Nerves, etc....about 22 to 25 shark bites in Florida alone per year ( the supposed "Unprovoked Shark bite Capitol"), depending what site is reporting. Mostly, what is being reported is "unprovoked" bites. One has to dig to find data on "provoked" attacks due to biased reporting IMHO. Yes, FATAL shark bites are rare...like you say Humans are NOT their preferred food. But sometimes sharks get hungry, and even humans can look good...
Yearly world wide attacks stand at 91 attacks, including "provoked" attacks... not counting "unconfirmed" attacks ( most likely in far out places) or "Boat bites". While the odds are slim one would get bit, it's not out of the real of possibilities, and one would be prudent to plan for an encounter.
Forgive me as I know this is a sword forum, and their is a bias to that ( and a bias to drawing blood in general ![;)](//storage.forums.net/forum/images/smiley/wink.png) ). If I am the guy who sounds like a wimp because I would preferably not use a sword, spear, or bang stick (unless that is all I had and was attacked) then so be it. To me the point of any encounter with any dangerous critter is to survive intact.
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Post by mrstabby on May 12, 2024 8:33:32 GMT
Can't outswim a shark though. The rule of thumb is you have like 10 seconds, if you can get out the water in that time do it, else stay calm ad go slowly towards safety wkile keeping eye contact because they are drawn to splashing sounds. It's quite rare to get attacked by a shark in the first place, more people get struck by lighting. Common knowledge is go for eyes and gills, if there is blood in the water from you already, more from the shark won't aggravate the situation any more. A feeding frenzy is very unlikely with human or shark blood since they aren't their normal food source, barracuda blood seems to really turn them on though. That's kinda the reason shark attacks are so rare, human's don't smell like food, most of these attacks start by "curiousity bites" or someone panicking and splashing around, they are drawn to that because it sound like drowning animals.
Also, yes they eat each other, but most of the time when they are very young. And as adults only very large sharks eat smaller ones. If it's easy prey, of course, but why endanger yourself fighting with an equal opponent.
No one will not out swim a shark. If you re-read my posts, in regards to a sword, after "winning" with a sword or other killing/ blood drawing tool, it would be best to have a boat nearby ( making it to shore is OK as well, but I neglected that). Then in my next post I stated I would prefer an electrical device to stun the shark vs. drawing blood, and still advocated not hanging around (get back to the boat). Again, not to "out run" a shark, but in case there are other sharks in the area.
Shark attacks are not as rare as people think...while most happen near the shore are single bites ( nibbles), even that nibble can cost use of a leg, or severe damage to arteries, Nerves, etc....about 22 to 25 shark bites in Florida alone per year ( the supposed "Unprovoked Shark bite Capitol"), depending what site is reporting. Mostly, what is being reported is "unprovoked" bites. One has to dig to find data on "provoked" attacks due to biased reporting IMHO. Yes, FATAL shark bites are rare...like you say Humans are NOT their preferred food. But sometimes sharks get hungry, and even humans can look good...
Yearly world wide attacks stand at 91 attacks, including "provoked" attacks... not counting "unconfirmed" attacks ( most likely in far out places) or "Boat bites". While the odds are slim one would get bit, it's not out of the real of possibilities, and one would be prudent to plan for an encounter.
Forgive me as I know this is a sword forum, and their is a bias to that ( and a bias to drawing blood in general ![;)](//storage.forums.net/forum/images/smiley/wink.png) ). If I am the guy who sounds like a wimp because I would preferably not use a sword, spear, or bang stick (unless that is all I had and was attacked) then so be it. To me the point of any encounter with any dangerous critter is to survive intact.
There are around 240.000 people struck by ligthning every year, or 1:35.000 and shark is 1:80.000.000, I'd call that pretty slim odds.
I have never heard of an underwater electroshocker that stuns sharks to be honest, only the electric field repellants, do you mean those?
Those work by making the water around the diver slightly charged and only work to keep the sharks away as long as they don't mean it. Sharks, not unlike other predators, aren't easily deterred when they are really after you. They do deter curiousity bites, but won't save you during an attack. Problem with electric current in saline water is, that it does not arc but creates a bubble, like when a power line is on the ground, and anything in that bubble is affected. If you have a jolt strong enough to stun sharks, likelyhood of getting a taste yourself is quite high. The SharkShield is just strong enough for the sharks electrical detector organs to be overwhelmed, like a cattle fence maybe, but not enough so humans (with our very limited sense of electric fields) are affected. It's not bloodlust just you have to make yourself not worth the effort, and that's not so easy with predators in general, water predators specifically. As human you are literally out of your element and their pain-threshold is pretty high - if they even feel pain at all.
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izzy
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Post by izzy on May 12, 2024 13:15:44 GMT
No one will not out swim a shark. If you re-read my posts, in regards to a sword, after "winning" with a sword or other killing/ blood drawing tool, it would be best to have a boat nearby ( making it to shore is OK as well, but I neglected that). Then in my next post I stated I would prefer an electrical device to stun the shark vs. drawing blood, and still advocated not hanging around (get back to the boat). Again, not to "out run" a shark, but in case there are other sharks in the area.
Shark attacks are not as rare as people think...while most happen near the shore are single bites ( nibbles), even that nibble can cost use of a leg, or severe damage to arteries, Nerves, etc....about 22 to 25 shark bites in Florida alone per year ( the supposed "Unprovoked Shark bite Capitol"), depending what site is reporting. Mostly, what is being reported is "unprovoked" bites. One has to dig to find data on "provoked" attacks due to biased reporting IMHO. Yes, FATAL shark bites are rare...like you say Humans are NOT their preferred food. But sometimes sharks get hungry, and even humans can look good...
Yearly world wide attacks stand at 91 attacks, including "provoked" attacks... not counting "unconfirmed" attacks ( most likely in far out places) or "Boat bites". While the odds are slim one would get bit, it's not out of the real of possibilities, and one would be prudent to plan for an encounter.
Forgive me as I know this is a sword forum, and their is a bias to that ( and a bias to drawing blood in general ![;)](//storage.forums.net/forum/images/smiley/wink.png) ). If I am the guy who sounds like a wimp because I would preferably not use a sword, spear, or bang stick (unless that is all I had and was attacked) then so be it. To me the point of any encounter with any dangerous critter is to survive intact.
There are around 240.000 people struck by ligthning every year, or 1:35.000 and shark is 1:80.000.000, I'd call that pretty slim odds.
I have never heard of an underwater electroshocker that stuns sharks to be honest, only the electric field repellants, do you mean those?
Those work by making the water around the diver slightly charged and only work to keep the sharks away as long as they don't mean it. Sharks, not unlike other predators, aren't easily deterred when they are really after you. They do deter curiousity bites, but won't save you during an attack. Problem with electric current in saline water is, that it does not arc but creates a bubble, like when a power line is on the ground, and anything in that bubble is affected. If you have a jolt strong enough to stun sharks, likelyhood of getting a taste yourself is quite high. The SharkShield is just strong enough for the sharks electrical detector organs to be overwhelmed, like a cattle fence maybe, but not enough so humans (with our very limited sense of electric fields) are affected. It's not bloodlust just you have to make yourself not worth the effort, and that's not so easy with predators in general, water predators specifically. As human you are literally out of your element and their pain-threshold is pretty high - if they even feel pain at all.
Nigh impossible to calculate odds of a shark attack, because we would have to know how many people swam near a shark and were NOT attacked.
Obviously with 91 incidents of bites to humans both "Provoked" and "Unprovoked" last year, the odds are slim that anyone of us swimming in the coastal areas outside known "shark attack" zones like coastal Florida, KZN South Africa, or Australia would ever be attacked.
But this is not the Lottery, if you "win" the prize, you are NOT a winner...
Electric deterrent: You are correct at this time their "stun" capabilities are not the same as a "stun gun" they are a deterrent to help one "get away" ( e.g "back to the boat / beach), or just not get a chunk torn off. It "stuns" the senses, not the whole shark. But the technology exists to actually "stun" with electroshock, if put into production:
Here is an example of shark Nets being used to deter attack on those just wanting to swim on their own coastline ( these silly people in the link below are against any kind of nets), let's just say not as "rare" as reported as there was 401 "survivors" of shark encounters still alive to be interviewed in just one geographical location, yet they want the nets to be gone ![O_o](//storage.forums.net/forum/images/smiley/browraise.png) :
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Post by larason2 on May 12, 2024 23:26:09 GMT
The shark didn't seem to like the instrument (sword?) in the mouth, but they just came up so fast! If that movie wasn't AI, I'm not sure I'd trust a pointy weapon to do the job! I watched a video a while ago of a snowboarder attacked by a boar, and their snowboard did a pretty good job of deterring. Maybe a kevlar inflatable shield? I like the idea of the electric eel ray, but I'd want to be sure it works on sharks before testing it myself! When I'm in the ocean, I usually stay closer than the furthest out other person in the waves. I don't want to be the slow gazelle!
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LeMal
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Post by LeMal on May 13, 2024 23:30:31 GMT
I think you were talking about the speargun vid, larason? If so, yeah, the problem is that underwater spearheads for spearfishing are optimized to shoot straight; a more bladed head like an archery broadhead would really plane and veer off, and a wide bladed spearhead would be a joke... but you'd need one to do enough damage, in hand, to really give something like a shark pause.
Still, animals are tough but not invincible. If whaling lances in hand could dispatch freakin' whales, a nasty deep thrust from something like a Cold Steel boar spear head would mess a lot of sharks up if they ran right into it like the one in the vid. Over-romanticizing wild animals is as off as underestimating them--and, if often sadly... our species has wiped a lot of "fearsome" ones out for a reason.
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Post by larason2 on May 16, 2024 20:03:14 GMT
Yeah, I was wondering what it was, couldn't get a good look at it, makes sense it's a spear gun. Anyway, shark didn't like it! I've done some bowfishing, and I use aluminum shafts at full length (not cut down) with the fins cut off, and a bowfishing points have barbs in them so they don't pull out easily once you get in. They will cruise through the water pretty fast, and the draw on my bow is only 40 lbs. If I had nothing else I'd try it against a shark, but I still think the speargun would be more effective. I suspect there's some part of the shark that they wouldn't want cut, even if all you had was a sword (nose, eyes, gills, mouth?), and at least the sword can move pretty fast through the water edge first. I wouldn't want to hang around to test it out though! A common thread with these encounters seems to be that the animal always seems to be way faster than the human. All in all, I agree spears are probably the best. The pointy bits of most wild animals are still usually pretty short range. If you can hold them at length, even if you can't kill them, then at least they can't kill you!
Anyway, probably been shared before, but it was new to me.
I have no reason to doubt the man's story, particularly because he appears to have the scars to match! Still, I think he should be dead, probably God was protecting him. I also learned though that there is a strategy. According to him, anyway, bears like bulls track primarily through motion. So the most important thing is somehow tricking the bear into attacking an inanimate object that moves more than you. Next, I also learned that if you want to kill a bear, go for its neck! I would have tried the eyes or nose or something, but clearly there's something better. So if you can somehow get the tip of your sword or a spear into the neck, that's probably the best you've got to hope for. As in bull fighting, all you really have to do is get it in there once, then somehow either move the sword around, or get the bear to move around, and your job will be done. That is one important way that a sword is more useful than a spear, it cuts around more once you get it in. I think it also showed that punches are useless. Still, I'd rather avoid all this if possible!
I think it's true that there's always ways of killing dangerous animals, some being safer than others if we really want to. I'm sure the Wooly Mammoth at 20 feet tall and tusks as long as swords wasn't the easiest prey, but they also took care of it with spears. They say when hunting boars it's always better to bring along a backup! A sword may not be the best backup, but I still think it would be better backup than a knife. If I was hunting boars with a gun, I'd probably still bring a spear! Since I also have many swords, why not one of those as well. Better than being strung up by a boar! There's been boar deaths and not that long ago, I've heard.
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LeMal
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Post by LeMal on May 16, 2024 20:37:10 GMT
Yup to all of that. I think people underestimate the game changer spears with sharp edges that can cause massive internal damage were in the evolutionary scheme of things. (Especially when not used solo, but a group of people working as a team; I mean Masai routinely take down lions!)
But as weapons go, in the animal kingdom nothing comes close in terms of penetration and damage. Birds of prey with their talons and the ability to attack from above probably come closest, and look how much larger prey than themselves they can take down.
Another advantage of a spear or a large sword in the thrust is how an attacker will impale themselves on it. Antlered and horned creatures come closest there, but their accoutrement isn't edged (geez, imagine of horns or antlers were!). And, unfortunately for them (probably since their herbivores rather than hunters, and via mating competition have only a few of their males grow to top size) rarely have evolved to work as a coordinated team so that attackers can try to flank the solo "spearman."
Just as an example though, and speaking of king-of-the-mountain super-large flying raptors, think of what a nasty surprise it must've been when they started swooping down on us once-tasty snacks to end up with a foot or two of sharp stone through their bodies for the trouble. ;)
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LeMal
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Post by LeMal on May 16, 2024 20:39:59 GMT
And let's face it, if we look at historical accounts of ancient and medieval hunting, true, the prey didn't always lose. But seriously, how many *thousands* of boar or bear ended up on someone's dinner plate for every nobleman who went down? :p
(Which reminds me of an old joke, but I'll put it in the Joke Thread where it belongs.)
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Post by Sir Thorfinn on May 17, 2024 13:41:45 GMT
Can you imagine a medieval noble going shark hunting with a boar spear? I think it needs to be a Monty Python skit....
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AndiTheBarvarian
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Post by AndiTheBarvarian on May 17, 2024 16:58:49 GMT
(clamshells rattling)
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