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Post by santoryususanoo on May 2, 2024 1:24:46 GMT
Hi everyone.
I wanted to ask the group on recommendations for where to buy a practice katana (preferably US based). Note that I would like it to be made of steel so that it is roughly the same weight/feel as a real sharpened katana that I have ordered (from Tozando). It also needs to be sturdy enough to actually draw/sheath it constantly, and swing it around for actual practice. A bonus if it is aesthetically well made so it would look nice on display too.
I know there are "Battle Ready" katanas on some sites that I have seen that are made from steel and seem like they might work, but wanted to get some advice from you all on better options.
Thank you all in advance.
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Post by blairbob on May 2, 2024 7:42:41 GMT
So RVA-katana doesn't carry Iaito anymore but one of their workers will dull any of their blades they have in stock for $40. They used to carry iaito made in China by Shinken-sword (the Moritaka line). Most of the swords they carry tend to be 27-28.5" in blade length. They should have some "O-katana" around 29". rva-katana.com/products/katana-spring-steel-9263 +$40 for dull+whatever shipping so $215+shipping. You could also order something more expensive and have it dulled down too. I've thought about this a bit instead of a custom Iaito as I liked some of the glossy saya they had. Besides them, you should be able to find some of the Hanwei iaito still on the market on the web around. Heck, RVA-katana as a CASIberia/Hanwei reseller could order you one for pretty cheap. They could only order the practical and practical plus iaito from CASIBeria. You might be able to find a Nami (Wave) or Tsuru (Crane) model somewhere on the web. I've never had problems with the Nami but all of the Hanwei iaito weigh less than their shinken "sharp" katana. Ofc, you could order a sword from RyanSword or Jkoo/Sinoswords or Hanbonforge and ask for a dull iaito blade. (Hanbon will even dull the tip so you can't stab yourself in the side or your hand doing noto). Some dude on reddit katana swears by RyanSword or Jkoo for wrap jobs named Kenzaigakusha or something. He's also a big fan of the Skyjiro iaito he gets from www.mountainteachings.com/store/c5/Swords.htmlAnother seller is Shadowdancer/Z-sey. Pictures look nice but some of the swords from Dragonsword/Shadowdancer (they changed their name to the latter) had some issues and Dragonsword was very unhappy about these reviews and lost their semprini about it in poor form. I have also seen some by Munetoshi. www.amazon.com/Musashi-Unsharpened-Practice-Samurai-Katana/dp/B09PGVBXYSAnother seller is Yari No Hanzo. I've checked out what apparently is their 2nd from the bottom model and it was alright though the tsuka was a bit thick in cross-sections for my tastes like the mid range line of katana from Musashi. Personally, I still have my Cheness, which is no longer in business. It's basically a dulled down version of one of their 1045 models though I do think my Musashi handles better (likely lighter and the POB is further out for the Cheness). I do prefer the tsuka of the Cheness as it's shaped better even though the rayskin panels are glued on top of the wood care rather than laid into the core like Hanwei and DragonKing make their Iaito and Katana. It doesn't seem like any of the Long Quan katana sellers inlay their rayskin panels besides maybe Shadowdancer/Z-sey (forgot to mention them). You can have them full wrap instead for about $40 extra but that can add some width to the tsuka handle. Having the rayskin panels inlaid into the wood core really is much nicer (like my Raptor but the damn tsuka is too thick from one side to the other) I'm planning to just order a custom iaito from Ryanswords I think. From what I was playing around with on HanbonForge and Shinken-swords, it was coming in at $350 so likely in the same ballpark from Ryanswords. |
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Post by larason2 on May 3, 2024 0:42:04 GMT
It would be good to know your budget, and what your tozando sword will be like. Some makers are better at doing custom stuff if your tozando is going to be different than the average katana. I don't think there are any that are US based. BlairBob has some good suggestions, but pretty much everything is made in China these days. There are quite a few US distributors though, for instance kult of Athena. It's not clear to me if you want an inexpensive sharp carbon steel sword to practice cutting (so you get good before you try out your tozando), or an inexpensive dulled carbon steel sword, say to practice iaido. Might be the same sword, just order it dull, but you can't always have it that way for every option! Iaido blades are often lighter on purpose, as far as I understand, many iaido practitioners have no intention of ever cutting with their skills; it's all about the form.
All that out of the way, I'd go with a Ryansword, Jkoo, Wang Katana 2011, Shadow Dancer, or Ronin. I've not yet bought a Ryansword, but they come well recommended, and there's been quite a few reviews here. I have a Jkoo bare blade I really like, their "tamahagane" (not real tamahagane) polishes up really nice. Wang Katana 2011 I also bought a bare blade from, only reproduction I have so far that was water quenched. Shadow Dancer also has a decent reputation with the above caveats. Ronin also sends out some solid blades, mine had quite a few finishing problems on the fittings, but they didn't affect their function.
If you plan to cut with it, and don't mind the aesthetics, then a through hardened blade is recommended. If it's going to be dull and you want a carbon steel blade, it's better to get it 1045 if you're going for carbon steel, because you don't care about the edge, and it will make it a bit more durable. For cutting, 1045 is good for cheap and cheerful, but if you want the edge to last longer, go for 1075 or higher. I wouldn't go for an iaido unless you want the iaido experience. It's likely they will be lighter, they are often made out of other metals like an aluminum alloy to make them less likely to rust, and sometimes so that they are lighter. If you want it durable, I'd avoid any of the folded steel (often called "san mai" or "damascus") options that are differentially hardened, or the "tamahagane" types, because they are slightly less durable. They have very nice aesthetics though. If aesthetics are of prime concern, they can still be cut with, only you'll scratch up the nice polish. As for the fancy steels, they can add durability, but I'm not sure it's worth the often higher price if you're going for budget.
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Post by santoryususanoo on May 3, 2024 2:51:45 GMT
So RVA-katana doesn't carry Iaito anymore but one of their workers will dull any of their blades they have in stock for $40. They used to carry iaito made in China by Shinken-sword (the Moritaka line). Most of the swords they carry tend to be 27-28.5" in blade length. They should have some "O-katana" around 29". rva-katana.com/products/katana-spring-steel-9263 +$40 for dull+whatever shipping so $215+shipping. You could also order something more expensive and have it dulled down too. I've thought about this a bit instead of a custom Iaito as I liked some of the glossy saya they had. Besides them, you should be able to find some of the Hanwei iaito still on the market on the web around. Heck, RVA-katana as a CASIberia/Hanwei reseller could order you one for pretty cheap. They could only order the practical and practical plus iaito from CASIBeria. You might be able to find a Nami (Wave) or Tsuru (Crane) model somewhere on the web. I've never had problems with the Nami but all of the Hanwei iaito weigh less than their shinken "sharp" katana. Ofc, you could order a sword from RyanSword or Jkoo/Sinoswords or Hanbonforge and ask for a dull iaito blade. (Hanbon will even dull the tip so you can't stab yourself in the side or your hand doing noto). Some dude on reddit katana swears by RyanSword or Jkoo for wrap jobs named Kenzaigakusha or something. He's also a big fan of the Skyjiro iaito he gets from www.mountainteachings.com/store/c5/Swords.htmlAnother seller is Shadowdancer/Z-sey. Pictures look nice but some of the swords from Dragonsword/Shadowdancer (they changed their name to the latter) had some issues and Dragonsword was very unhappy about these reviews and lost their semprini about it in poor form. I have also seen some by Munetoshi. www.amazon.com/Musashi-Unsharpened-Practice-Samurai-Katana/dp/B09PGVBXYSAnother seller is Yari No Hanzo. I've checked out what apparently is their 2nd from the bottom model and it was alright though the tsuka was a bit thick in cross-sections for my tastes like the mid range line of katana from Musashi. Personally, I still have my Cheness, which is no longer in business. It's basically a dulled down version of one of their 1045 models though I do think my Musashi handles better (likely lighter and the POB is further out for the Cheness). I do prefer the tsuka of the Cheness as it's shaped better even though the rayskin panels are glued on top of the wood care rather than laid into the core like Hanwei and DragonKing make their Iaito and Katana. It doesn't seem like any of the Long Quan katana sellers inlay their rayskin panels besides maybe Shadowdancer/Z-sey (forgot to mention them). You can have them full wrap instead for about $40 extra but that can add some width to the tsuka handle. Having the rayskin panels inlaid into the wood core really is much nicer (like my Raptor but the damn tsuka is too thick from one side to the other) I'm planning to just order a custom iaito from Ryanswords I think. From what I was playing around with on HanbonForge and Shinken-swords, it was coming in at $350 so likely in the same ballpark from Ryanswords. Thank you for the recommendations. I am curious, where on Ryanswords website did you find an option for a custom Iaito? That might be something I would like to look into more, but I couldn't find an option for that. Is that something I need to reach out to them for, or did I just miss the option? As for the other recommendations, I haven't checked them out yet, but plan to do some more research on this topic over the weekend. |
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Post by santoryususanoo on May 3, 2024 2:59:21 GMT
It would be good to know your budget, and what your tozando sword will be like. Some makers are better at doing custom stuff if your tozando is going to be different than the average katana. I don't think there are any that are US based. BlairBob has some good suggestions, but pretty much everything is made in China these days. There are quite a few US distributors though, for instance kult of Athena. It's not clear to me if you want an inexpensive sharp carbon steel sword to practice cutting (so you get good before you try out your tozando), or an inexpensive dulled carbon steel sword, say to practice iaido. Might be the same sword, just order it dull, but you can't always have it that way for every option! Iaido blades are often lighter on purpose, as far as I understand, many iaido practitioners have no intention of ever cutting with their skills; it's all about the form. All that out of the way, I'd go with a Ryansword, Jkoo, Wang Katana 2011, Shadow Dancer, or Ronin. I've not yet bought a Ryansword, but they come well recommended, and there's been quite a few reviews here. I have a Jkoo bare blade I really like, their "tamahagane" (not real tamahagane) polishes up really nice. Wang Katana 2011 I also bought a bare blade from, only reproduction I have so far that was water quenched. Shadow Dancer also has a decent reputation with the above caveats. Ronin also sends out some solid blades, mine had quite a few finishing problems on the fittings, but they didn't affect their function. If you plan to cut with it, and don't mind the aesthetics, then a through hardened blade is recommended. If it's going to be dull and you want a carbon steel blade, it's better to get it 1045 if you're going for carbon steel, because you don't care about the edge, and it will make it a bit more durable. For cutting, 1045 is good for cheap and cheerful, but if you want the edge to last longer, go for 1075 or higher. I wouldn't go for an iaido unless you want the iaido experience. It's likely they will be lighter, they are often made out of other metals like an aluminum alloy to make them less likely to rust, and sometimes so that they are lighter. If you want it durable, I'd avoid any of the folded steel (often called "san mai" or "damascus") options that are differentially hardened, or the "tamahagane" types, because they are slightly less durable. They have very nice aesthetics though. If aesthetics are of prime concern, they can still be cut with, only you'll scratch up the nice polish. As for the fancy steels, they can add durability, but I'm not sure it's worth the often higher price if you're going for budget. Thank you for the advice/recommendations. For my budget, I don't really know at the moment since I don't know how much a good practice katana should/would cost, but I would say like $800 give or take? The katana I have ordered from Tozando is a legit sharpened custom katana that I picked out most of the aesthetic choices for the tsuba and saya and everything. As of right now I don't really plan on using the practice katana to actually cut things (might change in the future once I get more practice), but this one will be more for form training so I know how to properly handle a steel sword when handling the Tozando katana. |
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Post by blairbob on May 3, 2024 22:29:15 GMT
I should have asked the question about budget since that is usually question #1 Ryansword offers 9 iaito models that start at 85/95$. www.ryansword.com/laito.html These don't seem to be customizable though they state they are in the description. These are a bit on the light said at 900-950 grams. That would be slightly heavier than the stock non ferrous iaito out of Japan besides the longer nagasa blades and the oversized blades to imitate shinken weights. I'm pretty sure you could ask them to not sharpen any custom order of theirs. Might not even be a surcharge for it. I don't see it available under their custom options so you would likely have to email them about it. Oh, you spent full boogie money on a Japanese shinsakuto through Tozando starting at $7.5k? Someone posted the other day on Reddit that the Shadowdancer model they got seemed to have inlaid rayskin panels which doesn't seem to be norm for swords out of LongQuan. Ryansword, Jkoo, HBF will do full wraps but it's too much work to cut out the channels in a wood core for inlaid panels instead of just glueing them on top of the wood cores (which tends to make the tsuka thicker in cross section). Hanwei does inlay their rayskin panels. Even on their practical models, I think. But most of their tsuka are not shaped well besides a few models that tend to be their high end. If you wanted a sword that would be wrapped as tight as a Shinsakuto with some tsuka shaping, Shadowdancer/Zsey might be the way to go. Most of the LongQuan makers don't seem to do much shaping for the tsuka though PhoenixArms that RVA-katana works seems to make curvy tsuka. the beginner iaito from Shadowdancer starts at $400. www.swordcn.com/Beginner-Iaito%EF%BC%88Blunt-Sword-Training-Sword-Not-Sharp%EF%BC%89-p388635.html Tbh, it doesn't look like much compared to their entry level swords which look better. For $800, you can custom the wazoo out of a katana from Ryanswords. Heck, the custom job I selected goes for about $350 from HBF and Shinken-swords though I didn't make the quote for Ryanswords yet (just figured out how you customize it a few days ago). And that included full wrap, japanese ito, hishigami, upgraded fittings, a folded blade with hamon. I don't know if they will upgrade the saya with buffalo horn as many of their saya are just stock saya. Personally, I like the idea of having a nice fancy daisho that are blunt (though I likely would prefer to not have the tip rounded). Would look good for training or embu. Probably not a bad idea to have the kissaki rounded for kumitachi though. While it's nice to have something pretty to cut with, how it handles and fits in the hand matters more. My guess is Ryanswords will come in around the same price, more or less. |
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Post by larason2 on May 4, 2024 3:56:43 GMT
$800 is more than enough, as Blair Bob says you can get a lot of nice custom features for that. Even $400 gets you a pretty darn good sword. I'd look around at the different web pages of what we've recommended and see what convinces you. Even at $800 though it's hard to get a perfect sword like you're getting from Tozando. There's always imperfections from the Chinese makers, so keep that in mind.
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Post by santoryususanoo on May 4, 2024 13:36:40 GMT
I should have asked the question about budget since that is usually question #1 Ryansword offers 9 iaito models that start at 85/95$. www.ryansword.com/laito.html These don't seem to be customizable though they state they are in the description. These are a bit on the light said at 900-950 grams. That would be slightly heavier than the stock non ferrous iaito out of Japan besides the longer nagasa blades and the oversized blades to imitate shinken weights. I'm pretty sure you could ask them to not sharpen any custom order of theirs. Might not even be a surcharge for it. I don't see it available under their custom options so you would likely have to email them about it. Oh, you spent full boogie money on a Japanese shinsakuto through Tozando starting at $7.5k? Someone posted the other day on Reddit that the Shadowdancer model they got seemed to have inlaid rayskin panels which doesn't seem to be norm for swords out of LongQuan. Ryansword, Jkoo, HBF will do full wraps but it's too much work to cut out the channels in a wood core for inlaid panels instead of just glueing them on top of the wood cores (which tends to make the tsuka thicker in cross section). Hanwei does inlay their rayskin panels. Even on their practical models, I think. But most of their tsuka are not shaped well besides a few models that tend to be their high end. If you wanted a sword that would be wrapped as tight as a Shinsakuto with some tsuka shaping, Shadowdancer/Zsey might be the way to go. Most of the LongQuan makers don't seem to do much shaping for the tsuka though PhoenixArms that RVA-katana works seems to make curvy tsuka. the beginner iaito from Shadowdancer starts at $400. www.swordcn.com/Beginner-Iaito%EF%BC%88Blunt-Sword-Training-Sword-Not-Sharp%EF%BC%89-p388635.html Tbh, it doesn't look like much compared to their entry level swords which look better. For $800, you can custom the wazoo out of a katana from Ryanswords. Heck, the custom job I selected goes for about $350 from HBF and Shinken-swords though I didn't make the quote for Ryanswords yet (just figured out how you customize it a few days ago). And that included full wrap, japanese ito, hishigami, upgraded fittings, a folded blade with hamon. I don't know if they will upgrade the saya with buffalo horn as many of their saya are just stock saya. Personally, I like the idea of having a nice fancy daisho that are blunt (though I likely would prefer to not have the tip rounded). Would look good for training or embu. Probably not a bad idea to have the kissaki rounded for kumitachi though. While it's nice to have something pretty to cut with, how it handles and fits in the hand matters more. My guess is Ryanswords will come in around the same price, more or less. Thank you. I will take a look at the different websites and sword models you have mentioned. I don't know much about the wrappings or inlaid rayskin and all that, so I am not sure how I can determine if it handles and fits in the hand better than another sword without buying it first? And yeah I ordered a shinsakuto from Tozando, which will be more for display/appreciation purpose (like a piece of Japanese art), which is why I am also looking into getting a nice practice katana that I can train with but that will also look nice so that it can be displayed next to the one from Tozando. |
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Post by santoryususanoo on May 4, 2024 13:46:42 GMT
$800 is more than enough, as Blair Bob says you can get a lot of nice custom features for that. Even $400 gets you a pretty darn good sword. I'd look around at the different web pages of what we've recommended and see what convinces you. Even at $800 though it's hard to get a perfect sword like you're getting from Tozando. There's always imperfections from the Chinese makers, so keep that in mind. Thank you. Yeah from what I have seen on some of the websites I had checked out, a lot of the swords are on the cheaper side, so $800 appears to be good. Although I don't know what is considered a "good" sword when they are that cheap? I am hoping though I can find a really nice once that I can customize that won't look too fake or not be made well and start to fall apart or something after like a year. Like you said though, I most likely won't be able to find one that will be as nice as the shinsakuto from Tozando. I guess however if I really wanted to spend the extra money, Tozando does have their own Iaito I could customize, but that would be around $2,500-3,000 if I fully customize it like I did with the shinsakuto. Do you think that would be overkill for a practice sword? |
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Post by larason2 on May 5, 2024 0:21:11 GMT
It all depends on what you want! The Chinese sword manufacturers all source their fittings from the same manufacturer, and all of them cut corners a bit when fitting them on a sword, even if it costs $800. An Iaido that costs $3000 will have much better fit and finish, but you don't need that to practice. If the extra expense is worth it to you though, then why not. My practice sword is sharp, and I only paid $350 for it (A Ronin Dojo pro). I needed to rewrap the tsuka though for it to be comfortable enough, but I was able to do that myself. Aside from practice I also cut with it (most of my practice is with a bokken from Kingfisher). It has some cosmetic problems I mostly ignored, I'll correct them someday. But I don't display any of my swords, they're all in a locker. So you have to consider what you want to do with it, what your budget is, and what you really want! $800 is a decent amount for a blade, but it won't necessarily be $400 better than a $400 blade in a way.The blade will probably be the same, the extra $400 will just upgrade a couple of the fittings.
Another issue is I'm not sure you totally know what you want yet. Some like shorter blades, some longer, some shorter tsukas, some longer, different point of balance and feel in hand, some like bo hi, some don't. I'm a tall guy, but I like standard Katana length, don't like O katanas. I like longer tsukas, but not as long as bugei. So when you're starting out, it's advised you try out a bunch of cheaper blades to start (maybe something like $200 each, go for something carbon steel like 1045). Try different sizes and geometries, then when you spring for an expensive one, you know what you like. I realize you already bought an expensive blade, but if you're training with it every day, it should be comfortable! If you already know all that, and you're confident you will get exactly what you want, then it makes sense to buy a more expensive practice sword. For those that have tried out different inexpensive swords and know what they want, they usually mostly use a more expensive one that's a perfect fit.
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tera
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Post by tera on May 5, 2024 0:58:01 GMT
FWIW, I have a Paul Chen/Hanwei Iaito (swedish powdered steel blade, real same, real leather ito) and it has served me well for the last 20 years. It was only $300 or so when I bought it, and they offered a few nagasa choices.
I think Hanwei's Iaito are made of stainless steep now, and their tsuka are notoriously chunky (so it wouldn't likely feel like your shinken) but my point is "cheap" practice swords don't necessarily mean poor construction.
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Post by santoryususanoo on May 6, 2024 17:15:41 GMT
FWIW, I have a Paul Chen/Hanwei Iaito (swedish powdered steel blade, real same, real leather ito) and it has served me well for the last 20 years. It was only $300 or so when I bought it, and they offered a few nagasa choices. I think Hanwei's Iaito are made of stainless steep now, and their tsuka are notoriously chunky (so it wouldn't likely feel like your shinken) but my point is "cheap" practice swords don't necessarily mean poor construction. Thank you for that information and advice. Yeah from what I have been hearing/seeing, I shouldn't just go based on price, like you said cheap doesn't always mean poor quality. I am still looking around at different manufacturers to figure out which one would be best for me, and I also need to decide if I want a customized one or just a stock mass produced one from the manufacturer. |
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mrstabby
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Post by mrstabby on May 6, 2024 18:08:14 GMT
FWIW, I have a Paul Chen/Hanwei Iaito (swedish powdered steel blade, real same, real leather ito) and it has served me well for the last 20 years. It was only $300 or so when I bought it, and they offered a few nagasa choices. I think Hanwei's Iaito are made of stainless steep now, and their tsuka are notoriously chunky (so it wouldn't likely feel like your shinken) but my point is "cheap" practice swords don't necessarily mean poor construction. Thank you for that information and advice. Yeah from what I have been hearing/seeing, I shouldn't just go based on price, like you said cheap doesn't always mean poor quality. I am still looking around at different manufacturers to figure out which one would be best for me, and I also need to decide if I want a customized one or just a stock mass produced one from the manufacturer. I am more medieval/chinese swords, but if you can, buy from somewhere you get good customer support. Paying a bit more is totally worth it sometimes when you have trouble like rust or cracks for example. Some manufacturers/sellers are unfortunately known for BSing kustomers or not answering at all - there should be a list of reputable sellers somewhere on the forum. |
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Post by wildv on May 27, 2024 3:37:31 GMT
I have mainly high end blades, Japanese new and old, Howard Clark, Motohara, Bugei, Huawei and Citadel. I recently purchased a cheaper katana from Wang Katana - www.ebay.com/str/wangkatana2011 as my nephew wanted a cheap but real and functional sword for display. I decided they were so cheap I'd get one for myself to see what a super cheap sword is like today (my first sword was a Musashi Bamboo some 15 years ago, then I went right into expensive Hanwei and Bugei). I was really impressed by the Wang Katana! For $130 which included shipping I wasn't expecting much but got a really decent sword with no play, movement or rattle. Blade is good and a few test cuts felt like some of my Bugei swords. Was pretty surprised to be honest. Based on what other people said here it doesn't seem like I got luck but is more their standard. Some people here have had issues with Ryansword, Hanbon and Jkoo/Sinoswords.
Hanwei you're paying for their nice fittings mostly but the fit, finish and the blades are (in my opinion) lower tier. If they were cheaper they'd be much better in comparison to what is out there now. I've also heard Bugei aren't as good anymore but cannot comment on that myself. All my Bugei are incredible.
My Mushashi Bamboo was great but that was 15 years ago no idea on their quality today.
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Post by bandeaurouge on Aug 8, 2024 16:27:19 GMT
Why buy a cast zinc and aluminum practice sword, when MANY companies selling functional katana. Have blade sharpening as an extra cost? Sure one would think a modern made katana selling for 3-400 would be sharp, but that 40$ sharpening fee offered by a few is mean.
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mrstabby
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Post by mrstabby on Aug 9, 2024 7:23:59 GMT
The Zinc/Aluminium alloy makes a blade you need barely any maintenance, is slightly lighter than stainless steel (making it easier to use) and it is 100% not a weapon. A stainless steel sword could be classed as a weapon some places since it still can take an edge and will likely survive a few slashes on a target, Zinc/Aluminium can't do either.
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