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Post by wildv on Apr 6, 2024 3:17:31 GMT
I've had to purchase a dehumidifier for my house at the start of winter and run it from inside my main sword storage room. We were having some mold issues due to it being cold here and the condensation build up at night with the heater causing mold. So now we run the dehumidifier most nights and the humidity is very low in my house now, especially when it is cold. Through the main part of summer it is fine.
I'm wondering if this is safe? I think it would be and have spoken to some people, but the consensus seems to be "i don't really know." I have noticed the saya do tighten a tiny bit, so the wood must shrink a little? The Relative Humidity now is 40-45% in my main sword room. It's full of very expensive swords, so I'd like some real answers on this please. Thank you. I have decided to post this in the Japanese section as Japanese weapons seem to have more wood parts.
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Post by larason2 on Apr 6, 2024 3:35:13 GMT
When we first purchased our house, the basement was very damp. We ran a dehumidifier there non stop for about a month, and we haven't had any problems for two years, and haven't had to use it again. That's where I keep all my swords, no saya changes or wood swelling in that time. We have a piano, and it typically goes out of tune in the winter, then returns to what it was in the summer (I can tune it myself, it's just hard to find the time!). There is some contraption in the bathrooms that used to channel humid air down there. We just stopped using them as well.
The wooden parts on a sword are in general more sealed off from the elements than say a piano sound board, so you wouldn't expect them to change even that much. Also, once wood is seasoned for your environment, it's less likely to expand and contract as much. So I'd say you're pretty safe, especially if your room stays around the same humidity year round now. In the winter we basically get 0% humidity, and up to about 50% or so in the summer, and I've never had a problem with my seasoned swords (the sound board, however, it does shift every year).
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Post by wildv on Apr 6, 2024 4:56:49 GMT
When we first purchased our house, the basement was very damp. We ran a dehumidifier there non stop for about a month, and we haven't had any problems for two years, and haven't had to use it again. That's where I keep all my swords, no saya changes or wood swelling in that time. We have a piano, and it typically goes out of tune in the winter, then returns to what it was in the summer (I can tune it myself, it's just hard to find the time!). There is some contraption in the bathrooms that used to channel humid air down there. We just stopped using them as well. The wooden parts on a sword are in general more sealed off from the elements than say a piano sound board, so you wouldn't expect them to change even that much. Also, once wood is seasoned for your environment, it's less likely to expand and contract as much. So I'd say you're pretty safe, especially if your room stays around the same humidity year round now. In the winter we basically get 0% humidity, and up to about 50% or so in the summer, and I've never had a problem with my seasoned swords (the sound board, however, it does shift every year). This is great to know! Thank you! It put's my mind at ease, I could see a piano having lots more issues and if it's held up fine then swords should be easy to keep. I was worried about cracking and things like that, but this is already sounding hopeful!
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Post by mrstabby on Apr 6, 2024 8:13:29 GMT
I have heard of damage (cracking due to shrinkage) to wood rifle stocks when they were kept in a sealed chest with desiccant, but 40-45% should be OK. That the wood moves is normal when it goes from high humidity (mold begins at about 60-70% rel. hudidity depending on actual conditions, the cold walls make a thin layer of more humid air, so if the room is high temp and low humidity but the walls are cold, still could form some mold). AFIAK wood likes around 40-60% and you risk damage below 35% humidity. It's worse if it's a sharp change, so taking an intact wood object directly from 60% to 30% air or vice versa is more likely to cause damage than a slow change. Also the older the wood the less likely it is to incur damage, the wood on swords should have gone through enough drying time to give it some resistance. Another thing is if the wood has something on it that keeps it from breathing, like lacquer, it might be more prone to cracking, because the closed off parts can't breath but others might leading to stress inside the wood.
Normally if you can't tolerate the air anymore, like you get dry eyes or throat, that's the point you need to be careful.
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Post by wildv on Apr 6, 2024 11:58:47 GMT
I have heard of damage (cracking due to shrinkage) to wood rifle stocks when they were kept in a sealed chest with desiccant, but 40-45% should be OK. That the wood moves is normal when it goes from high humidity (mold begins at about 60-70% rel. hudidity depending on actual conditions, the cold walls make a thin layer of more humid air, so if the room is high temp and low humidity but the walls are cold, still could form some mold). AFIAK wood likes around 40-60% and you risk damage below 35% humidity. It's worse if it's a sharp change, so taking an intact wood object directly from 60% to 30% air or vice versa is more likely to cause damage than a slow change. Also the older the wood the less likely it is to incur damage, the wood on swords should have gone through enough drying time to give it some resistance. Another thing is if the wood has something on it that keeps it from breathing, like lacquer, it might be more prone to cracking, because the closed off parts can't breath but others might leading to stress inside the wood. Normally if you can't tolerate the air anymore, like you get dry eyes or throat, that's the point you need to be careful. Hmmmm. Lot's of good points, thanks for sharing. The 40-45% is just the average the machine says it will do on the setting I have it. I guess the room is pretty open so the humidity would change slowly over time, there would be no drastic changes?
Lot's of my stuff is older now and of all the wood items, only one handmade jewelry box has cracked but that was at a join and the wood seemed to warp or bend on one side causing the crack. Nothing else has even changed so I guess it should be ok. It does get dry but we don't run it 24 hours a day, only more like 12 hours then have it off, so it shouldn't get that bad hopefully.
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Post by mrstabby on Apr 6, 2024 13:27:26 GMT
I think as long as the wood isn't directly in the airstream of the dehumidifier there should not be much difference to the average. Inside the airstream of a dehumidifier, depending on how it works, might be hot and dry or cold and wet, the hot-and-dry kind will be worse on the wood. The problem with boxes is, that the wood grain isn't in the same direction, so one contracts away from the other making the joins very likely to fail while a structure that is all one grain direction (like a handle made from 2 parts) will move together and has less likelyhood to split.
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Post by wildv on Apr 6, 2024 14:53:27 GMT
The airflow from the machine goes straight up into the air, but the swords are mostly on the wall in-front of it being hot-dry air. So it is close, but I cannot move things around much in the room sadly. I've had the swords here for 2 years now with the dehumidifier the first one we had broke so this is a new replacement one but is better quality and no issues yet, I'm just concerned years of this kind of low humidity might damage stuff, but it sounds like you don't think it will, or it would have already happened basically?
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Post by mrstabby on Apr 6, 2024 17:40:25 GMT
After 2 years under these conditions I'm guessing they're safe, unless something changes dramatically. I would also take care of the leather with some conditioner to prevent cracking, it does not like dry and hot either. It's all a "it depends" situation, you could put some cardboard (or something more permanent) up to disturb the airflow before it reaches the swords if it's still warm when it gets there, if it's more or less room temp there I would not worry (should have mixed enough with the surroundings).
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Post by Cottontail Customs on Apr 6, 2024 20:07:42 GMT
it couldn't hurt to get or make a few koiguchi kun, they should help prevent koiguchi from splitting or cracking as the wood contracts and expands.
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Post by wildv on Apr 7, 2024 5:38:59 GMT
it couldn't hurt to get or make a few koiguchi kun, they should help prevent koiguchi from splitting or cracking as the wood contracts and expands. Clever!! I just never fully sheath the blade in the saya, I always back it off a little bit but this is a much better more permanent solution
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Post by izzy on Apr 7, 2024 7:27:31 GMT
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Post by wildv on Apr 7, 2024 7:39:12 GMT
Thanks for sharing this, never seen it before.
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Post by izzy on Apr 7, 2024 8:06:55 GMT
Thanks for sharing this, never seen it before. Welcome....used them for years they work.
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