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Post by blairbob on Mar 27, 2024 15:22:55 GMT
So I have searched via Google (haven't actually on Reddit) and here on SBG.
Ftr, Cheness apparently don't and my Cheness iaito is over a decade old now and still very tight besides the way it's wrapped wouldn't show the triangles unless they were to slip out.
I can't tell with my Musashi but I'm sure it does not and I don't think my Raptor does either (they the same is channeled into the tsuka). I don't remember for my practicals or Bugei though I likely have pictures on a HD somewhere.
so we know Jkoo/Sinosword, HanbonForge, Huawei and Shinken-Of-Swords use hishigami. Bamboo Mat and Tori by Hanwei apparently use hishigami. Shadowdancer/DragonSword/Z-sey do as well.
Ronin don't at their low and middle end though dunno though it says they do at their high end.
I'm guessing Skyjiro does at their prices pending the model. DynastyForge probably though they are technically just selling off remaining stock.
"PhoenixArms" by RVA use hishigami as does "Morikata" (Shinken-Of-Swords). Not sure about their other lines besides the low end they liquidate.
semprini, where was I going with this lol.
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tera
Moderator
Posts: 1,662
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Post by tera on Mar 27, 2024 16:37:30 GMT
Hanbon Forge lists it as an optional upgrade I believe, but they do offer it, yes.
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Post by anj4de on Mar 27, 2024 16:57:38 GMT
Hanbon Forge lists it as an optional upgrade I believe, but they do offer it, yes. I have a HanBon on order and ordered Hishigami seperately, it was an option. My Huawei had it from the start, no extra order required.
cheers Uwe
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Post by blairbob on Mar 27, 2024 17:04:39 GMT
I think I was just trying to see if anybody knew any other sellers/forges that use hishigami that I left out.
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Post by Cottontail Customs on Mar 27, 2024 17:45:46 GMT
Hanbon Forge offers hishigamin as an option, not standard on all tsuka. Ryansword is similar although I believe some come with standard, some don't. all recent gen Huawei come with hishigami.
My thought is most of the "drop-down-menu" or custom/semi-custom sellers within this general class source their tsuka and or tsukamaki work from different places or at least at different price points. the most consistent thing about tsuka from these sellers is that they're not consistent. it's very easy to tell they are made differently, by different people with different skill levels. most are likely received separately per customer's request as far as color of ito, length, samegawa color and then assembled with the fittings that might come from another source and fitted to the blades, from yet another source. this would explain most inconsistencies from one of a brand to the next of the same brand. this also would explain issues with tsuka fit such as too tight on one sword, not tight enough on another, etc. for most of these sellers saya are also not made in house and again, would explain various fitment inconsistencies. I believe most production saya are available in quality ranges per price.
Bigger brands like Hanwei, Cheness, Dragon King, Bugei, Z-Sey would probably do less individual part sourcing or have a more steady group of people producing and assembling. a few may do a large portion or maybe even all production in house, except maybe fittings casting, not sure. some smaller brands like Huawei and Feilong show much more consistency from one sword to the next. they also seem to have less choices of fittings, saya and decoration, which probably helps in this regard. I also have opened up enough of these that I see the same consistency in materials used and construction.
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Post by blairbob on Mar 27, 2024 18:23:06 GMT
Do you know if the DragonKing use hishigami? I'm assuming they do but have yet to handle one or read about it.
That being said, the various DK models look very nice but nothing that stands out to me unless I was to just get one as a training tool.
I was hoping you would chime in as I had thought about asking you in another tread or PM.
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Post by zsg1313 on Mar 27, 2024 21:08:18 GMT
Do you know if the DragonKing use hishigami? I'm assuming they do but have yet to handle one or read about it. That being said, the various DK models look very nice but nothing that stands out to me unless I was to just get one as a training tool. I was hoping you would chime in as I had thought about asking you in another tread or PM. I can confirm the hana katana from dk did use hishigami.
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Post by Cottontail Customs on Mar 28, 2024 1:43:55 GMT
Do you know if the DragonKing use hishigami? I'm assuming they do but have yet to handle one or read about it. That being said, the various DK models look very nice but nothing that stands out to me unless I was to just get one as a training tool. I was hoping you would chime in as I had thought about asking you in another tread or PM. yes they do. DK would appeal most to those looking for a "complete theme" sword. they may not be the best cutters overall or most practical but they do tend to cover all aesthetic bases without looking thrown together from parts bins. each theme is thought out and specifically designed from colors to dimensions to decoration and even down to the sageo. nothing seems to be much of an afterthought like so many other cookie cutter offerings. again, nothing about them is necessarily the best but very few others are as complete. I appreciate them for the effort and care of design and general quality for price but for me, I like a much more understated aesthetic myself. for an affordable and impressive looking display sword that can also be cut with, it's hard to beat DK, imho.
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Post by ignatius on Mar 28, 2024 2:48:15 GMT
Just verified RyanSword can offer hishigami. Since my sword is still in production I asked them to include it so I will have an example for us.
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Post by blairbob on Mar 28, 2024 4:32:43 GMT
nice on the hishigami. might as well.
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Post by blairbob on Mar 28, 2024 5:21:10 GMT
while some of their themes are showy, they aren't nearly as gaudy as a lot of Long Quan sellers offerings.
unfortunately, none of their themes mean much to me. they are nice, but not what I'm looking for.
I suppose I could get one down the road as a cutter.
I really want to handle one if I can somehow before I pull the trigger.
It would be good for our group to have a solid cutter. The Raptor is a tank but too much sword for the kohai's skill (or lack thereof). The Musashi is alright. One of my buddy's has a few Cheness and another has some Bugei and there is a Tiger&Orchid in the group as well.
That being said, I don't know if that group of friends will ever cut again with how things have gone the past few years with various illnesses. I just think back to our cutting parties in the good ole days basically 15yrs ago.
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Post by jester on Mar 28, 2024 14:15:13 GMT
For what I know (by direct experience and handling to comparing reviews and opinions of other people), here's a few things I know about DK katana's range:
- tsuka core tends to be bad, even in high tier - QC is quite low, on par with hanwei post fire - the ratio sword for bucks is really good tho, especially if you can fix stuff like shimming, rattling, maki, etc - fittings vary from very simple to very elaborate but in every case they are way better than Longquan casts - blades are good in general, solid beaters in the sub 400 for sure, quite attractive in the high end tier with interesting hada and decent enough polish (most of their hamon tend to be frosty tho)
Also, here's a few hints on specific models: - Winter Sun is their best budget beater - Tatsumaki is quite bad instead, particularly with balance/handling - Hana is a great jack of all trades, especially if you like the simple aesthetics - Saviour is their best sword overall despite being mid tier (deeply regret to have sold mine) - most of the other swords tend to be ok but nothing special so unless you really like the aesthetics, you might want to look elsewhere for that money (although, their prices are quite good for what you get)
My opinion is "if you can rebuild a tsuka and do maki, buy a DK Saviour, change the fittings, and you'll have a hell of a sword for a very good price".
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Post by blairbob on Mar 28, 2024 15:52:41 GMT
DK Savior. $640. New Tsuka wrapped. Market rate is $500 unless you go with someone who hasn't made a name for $200-300 maybe. Dunno price of fittings. Let's say $100-200.
So now you're spending pushing towards $1.5k and likely at close to twice the price from KoA/RVA.
I will admit this was commonly done when people would remount gunto before Hanwei and even in a post Hanwei world where Nihonzashi would remount Hanwei (similar to what CottonTailCustoms does with Huawei).
I don't even know CTC charges but I've seen their work and maybe have seen a price when they had something available. I'm gonna guess $1-2k.
damn, your post was a hit job on DK lol.
but it's exactly why there is a niche for swords that are good to go from $500-1000. That being said, I would guess the average buyer is far less finicky than you, Jester.
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Post by jester on Mar 28, 2024 15:58:54 GMT
DK Savior. $640. New Tsuka wrapped. Market rate is $500 unless you go with someone who hasn't made a name for $200-300 maybe. Dunno price of fittings. Let's say $100-200. So now you're spending pushing towards $1.5k and likely at close to twice the price from KoA/RVA. I will admit this was commonly done when people would remount gunto before Hanwei and even in a post Hanwei world where Nihonzashi would remount Hanwei (similar to what CottonTailCustoms does with Huawei). I don't even know CTC charges but I've seen their work and maybe have seen a price when they had something available. I'm gonna guess $1-2k. damn, your post was a hit job on DK lol. but it's exactly why there is a niche for swords that are good to go from $500-1000. That being said, I would guess the average buyer is far less finicky than you, Jester. Hence me saying "if you can" not "if you can source the job to someone else who needs to be paid"
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Post by blairbob on Mar 28, 2024 16:07:57 GMT
that actually makes sense. I was quoted $500 to mount (and I would have to ship all the way across the US and back and semprini knows how much that would cost) a naginata when I was thinking about trying to do it myself.
Fittings from Lohman's are $300 (I'm not sure I could ever find anything cheaper) and I can't remember what wood could be. Hopefully I wouldn't need more tools as well.
When I intended to buy a reforged Muramasa (went for $3k and I lost the ebay bid), I was totally preparing to do everything but the polish myself by buying a beater and figuring it out. Even then, it would have only cost maybe 1k but I knew I wanted to save $1k if I could. That would have been just to mount it somewhat before one day paying to do it properly.
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Post by larason2 on Mar 28, 2024 16:26:57 GMT
I also consider hishigami necessary. It's better if it's used during the tsukamaki, but you can also insert it yourself after! The Japanese use this inexpensive tool: www.namikawa-ltd.com/product/2423Namikawa Heibei also sells the hishigami! www.namikawa-ltd.com/product/1477Traditionally they used one that was printed with characters because it avoided it being eaten by insects. But I'm not sure that's necessary anymore! After inserting, you also use the pick to rearrange the ito fibres so that it holds it in properly.
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Post by Cottontail Customs on Mar 29, 2024 21:04:56 GMT
DK Savior. $640. New Tsuka wrapped. Market rate is $500 unless you go with someone who hasn't made a name for $200-300 maybe. Dunno price of fittings. Let's say $100-200. So now you're spending pushing towards $1.5k and likely at close to twice the price from KoA/RVA. I will admit this was commonly done when people would remount gunto before Hanwei and even in a post Hanwei world where Nihonzashi would remount Hanwei (similar to what CottonTailCustoms does with Huawei). I don't even know CTC charges but I've seen their work and maybe have seen a price when they had something available. I'm gonna guess $1-2k. damn, your post was a hit job on DK lol. but it's exactly why there is a niche for swords that are good to go from $500-1000. That being said, I would guess the average buyer is far less finicky than you, Jester. Yes, DK full themes aren't for everyone. and no, definitely not as garish as a lot of the common chincy stuff but I actually think that while DK can be loud in the way that they offer more to look at than many, I don't personally find it gaudy, per se. I have asked $1k and over for some custom katana but that's typically when the base sword cost me $500-$800 to start with and then I add a ton of things, including new or self made fittings, tsukamaki with high end materials and re-lacquered saya, etc. they also typically take me a few months at least to finish. so in the end, all things considered, I usually make a whopping $200, lol. this work is not recommended for those who actually want to make money...
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Post by blairbob on Mar 30, 2024 0:06:23 GMT
$200 hahahahhahahahah. congratulations, you can go on a night on the town basically
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Post by larason2 on Mar 30, 2024 1:26:54 GMT
That's true though, Japanese sword appreciation isn't about making money! When you can get a basic functional Katana for $200 USD, but a proper polish with stones takes at least 100 hours (of a skilled practitioner), and every other trade, like sayagaki, tsukamaki, tosogu, can all also take a very long time, you can imagine how much a sword that has tons of stuff done on it "should" cost. But then, no one would be able to afford it! So a lot of time it's about recovering costs more than even getting reimbursed for your time. But I think most of us do it as a hobby, and for the fun of it, so it's not a bother. I sometimes wonder if even in Longquan they're really making any money from us... It could be most of them make swords for the Chinese army and the local market, and they're doing this for us just to help recover some of their inventory cost, or because they're sword enthusiasts like us, and making 10,000 identical military daos is boring.
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Post by blairbob on Mar 30, 2024 2:41:23 GMT
i don't have a clue but i don't think the chinese army equips dao. would be interesting if they do, especially as some kind of cultural warriorship propaganda.
hey, you should join the army. we'll give you your own sword and teach you how to use it! we got some other stuff too besides planes, tanks, cannons, ships and plenty of rice and baiju!
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