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Post by zachster on Mar 21, 2024 16:53:22 GMT
Hi there, Recently started collecting swords, so I am very much a newbie. Received a new "standard grade" Balaur Arms 15th century German Longsword from Kult of Athena recently. For the most part, the sword is very nice -- especially the handling characteristics and the blade quality. As expected of a handmade sword, there are a couple defects that are quite apparent. I have attached images. The first defect is that the wheel pommel (and even the handle to a smaller degree) is in a slightly rotated/ twisted position relative to the cross guard and blade orientation. This was immediately apparent to me upon examine the sword out of the box. As far as I can tell, it wouldn't likely affect the performance, but from a aesthetic and display perspective, it is a bit jarring. I actually reached out to KoA customer service to understand if this defect is normal or expected, and they claimed that all of the Balaur Arms 15th C German Longswords have this observation in this batch. The other defect is the asymmetric gap between the blade and cross guard. Now, given that this is a ~$400 handmade sword, I didn't expect perfection. So I'm asking for advice regarding what should be expected of a New "standard grade" ~$400 sword. Have any of you experienced this? Should I consider sending it back? Please let me know your thoughts on the defects here and what you have done/ would do. Thank you! |
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AndiTheBarvarian
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"Lord of the Memes"
Bavarianbarbarian - Semper Semprini
Posts: 10,328
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Post by AndiTheBarvarian on Mar 21, 2024 17:04:06 GMT
Hi and welcome to the forum!
That's bad luck for a first sword.
I've got a sword with the same problems and kept it, after a few days those imperfections didn't bother me anymore.
But it was my twentieth sword or more, not my first.
Try to get a replacement, but if they don't want to it isn't the world's end.
It's in the range of things you see on antique swords.
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Post by fayebarca on Mar 21, 2024 17:18:10 GMT
The gap between blade and guard being asymmetric is something I’m used to seeing. The pommel being off like that, though, is not.
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Post by crazyjons on Mar 21, 2024 17:41:16 GMT
Matt Easton on The scholar gladiatoria YouTube channel had a whole long episode about how historic medieval sword examples often had crooked pommel orientation like that.
It would bother me I would try and fix it. I'm also glad that you pointed this out because I was looking hard at that sword!
Jon
You know it doesn't look that bad in the last picture.
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mrstabby
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Post by mrstabby on Mar 21, 2024 17:42:44 GMT
I normally fill pronounced gaps with glue, but as long as the blade does not feel loose it is pretty normal (it should have an audible ring or feelable vibration for a second or so when you flick the blade, a blade that isn't firmly attached to the hilt has a very specific dull sound to it that fades fast). Not every blade is the exact same width and the cuts in the guard aren't done for each specific blade but by someone just making a cut X wide and Y deep. It's quite normal in this price segment. As for the rotated pommel, as fayebarca said, it is not normal as a whole, but it could be for some runs of specific swords. LK Chen hasn't been doing medieval swords or Balaur that long, so it might be some beginning troubles. Or it could be a desighn thing, some originals have rotated pommels and sometimes this gets introduced into reproductions. It is likely that the person making the pommels cut them wrong for a batch. Honestly, I am not if I would keep it like this, depending on how much you can feel it when it is used.
EDIT: Just re-read it's the german longsword, I have seen some people talking about the pommel being crooked, so it seems to be a wider issue and replacing might not yield a better outcome. Repairing is a whole other kettle of fish, I am not sure you would want to go that route as a beginner unless you have some metalworking experience.
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Post by crazyjons on Mar 21, 2024 18:22:45 GMT
Yeah I would probably place the wide edges of the pommel on some wood blocks or in a vise and then use a quarter inch diameter flat punch to hammer down on the Tang until it overcame the peen then add whatever necessary shims or filing or whatever to make it straight and re peen it
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Post by larason2 on Mar 21, 2024 19:05:38 GMT
If it were mine, I might just leave it. I might also try to file the pommel to a better shape, but then you'll lose width. Taking the pommel off is going to be tricky, because it won't be as tight after you file it. You can use shims, but it's never the same thing after you've taken it apart, filed and shimmed it. So it's a bit of a pickle. You see why historical examples are crooked! Try swinging with it, if there's one position that feels comfortable, then at least it's usable. For me it would be the position with blade tipping in, pommel tipping out. The plus here is it makes it easy to figure out if it's in your favourite position or not!
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Post by Sir Thorfinn on Mar 21, 2024 20:10:10 GMT
If you want a point to use for a return, look at the handle closely. If its twisted enough it would cause you to not have good keying to the edge, that's a problem.
Probably not if its very minor. Other than that, if its solid and functions as expected, good enough.
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Post by madirish on Mar 21, 2024 21:37:57 GMT
The gap is something you will find in mid tier swords....and even top tier swords are not perfect, sometimes. The pommel....that's some bologna. Send it back.
Unimpressed with that peen, too, lol, but not a deal breaker.
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Post by zachster on Mar 22, 2024 22:17:58 GMT
Wow! This really got a bunch of replies quickly. Thank you all for your responses. There is a lot of good advice and things to consider here. I'll try to go back and reply to specific messages.
I did watch that Matt Easton video about the theory that historical swordsmiths maybe intentionally skewed some wheel pommels to help with handling. It is an interesting thought. This longsword is my only sword with a wheel pommel, so there isn't anything to compare against, but it is actually quite comfortable to grip. Maybe the pommel skew is helping a bit? Not sure.
In any case, I'm overall leaning towards keeping the sword instead of sending it back. I think I'll get over the pommel issue relatively quickly, and the rest of the sword is in incredible condition and is beautiful. I'm a tad worried that if I send it back, I'll receive a replacement that is more deficient sword in other, less acceptable, ways. It's always somewhat of a gamble at the end of the day.
Cheers
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LeMal
Member
Posts: 1,180
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Post by LeMal on Mar 22, 2024 22:30:51 GMT
In any case, I'm overall leaning towards keeping the sword instead of sending it back. I think I'll get over the pommel issue relatively quickly, and the rest of the sword is in incredible condition and is beautiful. I'm a tad worried that if I send it back, I'll receive a replacement that is more deficient sword in other, less acceptable, ways. It's always somewhat of a gamble at the end of the day. And don't forget, shipping takes money, and your TIME and trouble is money. A whole feces-ton of people in this hobby like to be "optimizers" vs "satisficers" (look it up if you've never heard the comparison) in no small part, sad to say, because being the former in any field or subculture is a way that those ostensibly higher on the pecking order purport to distinguish themselves from the supposed "know nothings" and newbs. But if there's no issue with safety/structural stability, and it's still functional as a weapon, my attitude toward "defects" has always been it better be a HUGE screw job in regards to the price to make it worth my time and trouble seeking a refund or exchange, rather than just shrug and make do with the quirks. After all, how are you going to practice "Improvise, Adapt, Overcome" if everything drops onto your lap "perfect?" ;) |
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Post by pellius on Mar 22, 2024 22:48:29 GMT
I kinda agree with the consensus.
Personally, I’ve never had a non-sword person notice any details like this, and enthusiasts are generally aware of the possibility that the slight twist could be intentional.
I am of the opinion that a keyed and peened pommel/tang interface is optimal. If a maker does this, then a slightly twisted pommel would require extra work to achieve, and legitimize any “meant to do it” claim.
Ultimately, if it’s acceptable to you personally, then you are good to go.
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