alexxe
Manufacturer/Vendor
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Posts: 54
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Post by alexxe on Mar 13, 2024 3:13:06 GMT
A few weeks back we launched our newly created Pattern-Weld Steel Naginata, now with some upgrading, so we'd like to invite all swords friends to share with us your thoughts on it. here are some detail spec. of this Naginata:
Blade Length: 20.5"
Shaft Length: 50"
Blade Thickness: 6.5mm Weight (Without Scabbard): 2.87lb (1.3kg)
Forge: Traditional Longquan Forging and Folding
Blade Material: Pattern Welded Steel
As usual, video intro. attached here:
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Post by Gelue on Mar 13, 2024 5:14:42 GMT
A quick observation is that nakago(tang) looks appropriate in length for a cut down naginata blade remounted in a wakazashi. Generally for a non cut down version the tang is equal or nearly so in length to the blade. For the blade size the shaft is also very short but I understand international shipping can be cost prohibitive or impossible if the total length is too large. I like that pattern on the blade good work there.
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Post by Cottontail Customs on Mar 13, 2024 6:27:55 GMT
Is this a through-hardened blade with a cosmetic suguha hamon?
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Post by blairbob on Mar 13, 2024 7:54:38 GMT
^^ I wondered the same.
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alexxe
Manufacturer/Vendor
If you don't know me, now you know.
Posts: 54
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Post by alexxe on Mar 13, 2024 12:08:54 GMT
A quick observation is that nakago(tang) looks appropriate in length for a cut down naginata blade remounted in a wakazashi. Generally for a non cut down version the tang is equal or nearly so in length to the blade. For the blade size the shaft is also very short but I understand international shipping can be cost prohibitive or impossible if the total length is too large. I like that pattern on the blade good work there. Yes, totoally agree, we are thinking to extend the length to total 220cm, with 60cm tang, well, will update here for sure.
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alexxe
Manufacturer/Vendor
If you don't know me, now you know.
Posts: 54
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Post by alexxe on Mar 13, 2024 12:11:51 GMT
Is this a through-hardened blade with a cosmetic suguha hamon? it's through hardened, but no clay tempered, we just feel like not necessary for a pattern weld, fold steel. but in aesthetic view, of course we can make up a cosmetic hamon.
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Post by treeslicer on Mar 13, 2024 14:15:43 GMT
Is this a through-hardened blade with a cosmetic suguha hamon? it's through hardened, but no clay tempered, we just feel like not necessary for a pattern weld, fold steel. but in aesthetic view, of course we can make up a cosmetic hamon. The clay tempering (what is more properly called "differential hardening") adds to the edge hardness (and therefore edge retention), the durability of the blade, and its aesthetic beauty (especially when it is done with water [as it should be] and shows the crystallizations known as "activities"). I personally won't buy a Japanese-style blade that lacks it.
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LeMal
Member
Posts: 1,086
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Post by LeMal on Mar 13, 2024 15:28:48 GMT
A quick observation is that nakago(tang) looks appropriate in length for a cut down naginata blade remounted in a wakazashi. Generally for a non cut down version the tang is equal or nearly so in length to the blade. For the blade size the shaft is also very short but I understand international shipping can be cost prohibitive or impossible if the total length is too large. I like that pattern on the blade good work there. Yes, totoally agree, we are thinking to extend the length to total 220cm, with 60cm tang, well, will update here for sure. Maybe you should just keep producing these and mounting a suitable handle ON them to make them wakizashi. (I myself am not a big Japanese sword fan, but I love naginata naoshi style stuff.) Meanwhile you can work separately on with what you just said about designing and then making one with a longer tang for the naginata model.
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Post by Cottontail Customs on Mar 13, 2024 18:54:52 GMT
Is this a through-hardened blade with a cosmetic suguha hamon? it's through hardened, but no clay tempered, we just feel like not necessary for a pattern weld, fold steel. but in aesthetic view, of course we can make up a cosmetic hamon. I see. so just to be clear, what looks like a hamon on this blade is just a polishing technique? thanks.
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Zen_Hydra
Moderator
Born with a heart full of neutrality
Posts: 2,625
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Post by Zen_Hydra on Mar 13, 2024 20:21:19 GMT
I think most of my questions have already been asked by others here, but I echo that if this is meant to be a functional piece it needs to have a longer nakago.
I can't tell from what has been presented, but how strong is the construction of the tsukekanamono? That is often a major point of failure in reproductions of naginata, and if this piece is intended to be safely used for cutting practice it needs to be able to handle the shock and torque transferred through the nakago into the tsukekanamono.
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Post by tensho on Mar 13, 2024 21:47:29 GMT
I think you would get much more appeal if the blade was clay tempered and the nakago was the correct length(i.e equal to the blade) other than that the blade looks pretty well executed geometry wise. I have a hanwei naginata and the Hi look absolutely garbage. I would be interested in the bare blade if those two things were an option.
The shaft is not accurate to anything naginata related. And I'm assuming the fittings are of pot metal.
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Post by blairbob on Mar 14, 2024 4:01:38 GMT
I've seen through hardened pattern weld blades for years now and always thought them a bit odd to me. Almost prefer, just a satin finish with through hardening. it's more cost effective though since you're less likely to lose a blade in the quench.
the pattern weld with cosmetic hamon is alright. i just know once I know the hamon is cosmetic, I'm uninterested. when training or cutting with swords, it's not like you really see the hamon or folds much anyways.
that being said, through hardened pattern weld will likely hold up better to cut with than differentially hardened if you botch it.
i'm personally ok if the shaft isn't exactly tradtional. i would personally like something longer than 6 shaku for funsies but there is something to be said about something just 4 shaku (it's easier to wield for one)
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alexxe
Manufacturer/Vendor
If you don't know me, now you know.
Posts: 54
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Post by alexxe on Mar 14, 2024 7:04:45 GMT
it's through hardened, but no clay tempered, we just feel like not necessary for a pattern weld, fold steel. but in aesthetic view, of course we can make up a cosmetic hamon. I see. so just to be clear, what looks like a hamon on this blade is just a polishing technique? thanks. Yes sir
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alexxe
Manufacturer/Vendor
If you don't know me, now you know.
Posts: 54
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Post by alexxe on Mar 14, 2024 7:16:40 GMT
I think most of my questions have already been asked by others here, but I echo that if this is meant to be a functional piece it needs to have a longer nakago. I can't tell from what has been presented, but how strong is the construction of the tsukekanamono? That is often a major point of failure in reproductions of naginata, and if this piece is intended to be safely used for cutting practice it needs to be able to handle the shock and torque transferred through the nakago into the tsukekanamono. the shaft is made of bamboo composite, tsukekanamono with ray skin cover, where the ito starts and ends meet with alloy fittings. I dont' have specific data as to how strong, but one thing we will change for sure, the tang extending to 50 to 60cm. I am concerned with the tang length now but this is really a easy one for us to fix. for the shaft we are about to make it 170cm, so total could be around 220cm. thanks for sharing with us this valuable thoughts.
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alexxe
Manufacturer/Vendor
If you don't know me, now you know.
Posts: 54
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Post by alexxe on Mar 14, 2024 7:19:12 GMT
I've seen through hardened pattern weld blades for years now and always thought them a bit odd to me. Almost prefer, just a satin finish with through hardening. it's more cost effective though since you're less likely to lose a blade in the quench. the pattern weld with cosmetic hamon is alright. i just know once I know the hamon is cosmetic, I'm uninterested. when training or cutting with swords, it's not like you really see the hamon or folds much anyways. that being said, through hardened pattern weld will likely hold up better to cut with than differentially hardened if you botch it. i'm personally ok if the shaft isn't exactly tradtional. i would personally like something longer than 6 shaku for funsies but there is something to be said about something just 4 shaku (it's easier to wield for one) All righty, this is really helpful, I know this would be the best place for asking advice. thanks and much appreciated.
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Post by blairbob on Mar 15, 2024 6:31:31 GMT
I wouldn't worry too much about making naginata over 5 shaku. It's probably a very small market and my friend built his own (dad is a carpenter) after he got a blade from somewhere (Kris Cutlery or elsewhere in China?) I think it would be very cool to have a naginata with a 7-9 shaku shaft though it would likely be very difficult to train with (and even more dangerous to cut with)
I don't know what you can ship internationally but it's a real pain to just ship long objects domestically (then again, they do ship rokushaku bo or staffs from Asia). And I have shipped and recieved weightlifting bars that weigh 20kg and out 7' long which costs basically $1-2/lb to ship in the US/canada.
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Post by randomnobody on Mar 15, 2024 22:49:51 GMT
A solution to length could be to ship disassembled, as (I believe?) LK Chen does with their Han Sha. Or, like many others, simply sell the blade by itself and leave the mounting to the buyer.
Otherwise, I'll echo those who prefer differential hardening over cosmetic hamon. Pattern welding or not does not matter to me, but I do insist on real hamon.
Blade shape looks good.
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