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Post by RambleTree on Mar 4, 2024 14:53:34 GMT
I'm eyeing a few swords, and wondering about relative stiffness:
- Valiant Irish Ring Medieval War Sword (the big wide one). - Valiant Lambrecht - Vision Tellaro / ATrim XVIIIb.15 (if one becomes available)
I know this topic has been discussed at length previously. There also seems to be difficulty in establishing an objective, easily communicated measure of relative blade stiffness/whippy-ness. Sword type, blade profile, cross-section, distal taper, stock thickness and heat treatment are all relevant factors.
Note: I'm -not- asking about the virtues of more or less flexible swords (i.e. cutting performance, effectiveness in the bind, vs. harness, etc.). I know what I prefer, and looking for Forumites' impressions before considering a purchase.
So . . . in an effort to skip over beating those horses to death, I'll use a few relatively well-known models as a basis of comparison: ---------------------------------------- Perfect for me: H/T Bastard Sword, no fuller ATrim XVIa.7 (wish I hadn't sold it!) Arms and Armor Towton
Pretty good: Cold Steel HNH
The most flexibility I would want: Windlass Arbedo (recent production)
-->H/T Single-hand medieval sword
Too flexible/whippy:
H/T Single-hand medieval sword Valiant Malatesta ------------------------------------------
So, if anyone can speak from experience about the relative rigidity of the Valiant Irish War Sword, Lambrecht, Tellaro/XVIIIb.15, compared to these examples, I'd appreciate it. Thanks!
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Post by crazyjons on Mar 4, 2024 15:41:32 GMT
Well I have two of the valiant armory lambrecht swords and interestingly they have almost identical flex or whip, I'd call it a nice Middle ground and it seems very similar to my HT bastard with Fuller.
Aside from just general handling I'm typically testing that by holding the grip somewhat loosely and hitting my palm against the pommel. It might be a little difficult to set up but if you could do that over the top of graph paper or ruler or something you might be able to see how far it moves in various areas of the blade. I bought the DSA Gothic from alientude and he had made a video of slow motion flex hitting a bottle, it was crazy. When I do the test with that sword you can see the forte of the blade waving back and forth wildly. If you want a PM me your phone number I'll text you some video of what I'm talking about with the lambrecht.
Jon
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mrstabby
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Post by mrstabby on Mar 4, 2024 16:49:36 GMT
Interesting that you classify the single handed H/T as too flexible, mine is only slightly less rigid than the bastard sword, the one with fullers is a bit more flexible than my single hander. Probably some production variability? I am hanging a 400g/1lbs welding magnet to the tip and measure the deflection.
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Post by RambleTree on Mar 4, 2024 17:30:41 GMT
Well I have two of the valiant armory lambrecht swords and interestingly they have almost identical flex or whip, I'd call it a nice Middle ground and it seems very similar to my HT bastard with Fuller. Aside from just general handling I'm typically testing that by holding the grip somewhat loosely and hitting my palm against the pommel. It might be a little difficult to set up but if you could do that over the top of graph paper or ruler or something you might be able to see how far it moves in various areas of the blade. I bought the DSA Gothic from alientude and he had made a video of slow motion flex hitting a bottle, it was crazy. When I do the test with that sword you can see the forte of the blade waving back and forth wildly. If you want a PM me your phone number I'll text you some video of what I'm talking about with the lambrecht. Jon Thanks for the info! Sending PM for contact
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Post by fayebarca on Mar 4, 2024 17:39:06 GMT
I own a Tellaro, and don’t remember it having much of any flop to the blade. It’s shorter than the average longsword which I reckon contributes.
I’ll check again later today and will probably message you.
EDIT: Just remembered that the ATrim XVIa.7 I have is the exact one you used to own — I got it from the fellow who bought yours. Rest assured it’s in a good home. It’s my favorite sword.
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Post by RambleTree on Mar 4, 2024 17:42:47 GMT
Interesting that you classify the single handed H/T as too flexible, mine is only slightly less rigid than the bastard sword, the one with fullers is a bit more flexible than my single hander. Probably some production variability? I am hanging a 400g/1lbs welding magnet to the tip and measure the deflection. Yeah, now that you mention it, I'm thinking back more on the H/T SHMS I owned a few years ago. I guess I'd put it more with the 'recent production Arbedo'. Here's where blade profile comes into play - the Arbedo is pretty flexible, but it's so wide that it gives the impression of a sort of 'lateral stiffness', if that makes sense. I think what I'm going for is a feeling of confidence, whether parrying or thrusting in a 'cut-and-thrust' bastard sword. Sword type and blade length affect that 'feeling' too. For example, the Malatesta may very well be similar in stiffness to some of the other models, but bastard/longsword size makes it feel kinda noodle-y (to use a technical term). I'm sure being pretty thin out near the COP makes it a great cutter, but I'm looking for more of a balance between cutting performance and rigidity. It's such a subjective thing, and ultimately one can't truly judge without having the sword actually in-hand. It would be great if reviewers (whose efforts I am grateful for!) could implement a flex-test as a standard part of review format. To further standardize it, do a comparative flex test against a common accessible model (such as the H/T Bastard, or Cold Steel HNH). Some reviewers regularly do it, but many reviews skip it.
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Post by crazyjons on Mar 4, 2024 18:30:31 GMT
That's a good idea too clamp the sword horizontally and hang a measured weight off the tip. I'm not sure if that will tell the whole story though
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Post by mrstabby on Mar 4, 2024 19:38:04 GMT
So far it has worked for me to estimate, the other big thing is distal taper. Something with similar flex but no distal taper feels off to me because it bends towards the middle, in a distal tapered sword most flex is in the last third, though this is only a hypothesis so far (I have only one whippy sword right now, it feels stiff but has near 0 taper)*. I think this is why Windlass' are plaggued by this.
*Adding more thoughts: I think due to the equal weight distribution without taper, there is more mass in the tip, making it bend more when swinging. On the distal tapererd sword, there is less mass in the tip making it less likely to bend while you move it. At least for double edged swords.
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Post by toddstratton1 on Mar 4, 2024 19:46:44 GMT
I owned at one point all the vision line swords up until the Lyon, the only blade I would say was a lot floppier was the Exeter. I tried dry handling quite a few different valiant armoury swords at SoCal sword fight. But can't recall the stiffness of or if I even held some of the other models you mentioned. My general feel though as that type XII and type XIII blades will often be more flexible and floppy due to the blade dimensions and profile, compared to others based on the blade design itself. Some sword makers will have the same blade type be more stiff or less dependent on model. The Albion Baron for example I consider pretty darn stiff compared to what's typical for that blade especially the length. The Albion count however is more flexible as is the Duke
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Post by theneckrubmancer on Mar 4, 2024 20:02:48 GMT
The Atrim XVIIIb.15 would fit into your "pretty good" category, I think. Just subjectively feeling how hard it is to bend the blade, I would say that it's less stiff than the XVI.7 or the Ansbach, but a little bit stiffer than the Strasbourg.
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Post by fayebarca on Mar 5, 2024 5:18:41 GMT
Just handled a few swords at home. The Tellaro flexes more than the XVIa.7 and Tinker Longsword (with fuller), but less than the Strasbourg/Tauber.
The Tinker was stiffer than I expected. On par with the XVIa.7.
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Post by RambleTree on Mar 5, 2024 17:03:29 GMT
Thanks All for the feedback! It's interesting to hear the Strasbourg/Tauber mentioned as being more flexible than some others. I would have thought those would be stiffer do to the stabby profile. I assumed they were XVa until I just did a quick look at Valiant's website.
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Post by fayebarca on Mar 5, 2024 17:13:54 GMT
Yeah, XVIIIb, and on the cut-centric side of that classification, given it’s an ATrim design.
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