|
Post by mrstabby on Jun 9, 2024 11:24:26 GMT
Is there a rule that hira zukuri blades must have a slender cross section? I can imagine a thicker spine with much niku down to the very edge, a bit like a broad shinogi zukuri but without a shinogi. www.ksky.ne.jp/~sumie99/styles.htmlAre we talking adding toughness as in resisting bending or as in edge damage? I don't think bending resistance would depend that much on the geometry of the soft steel, it's easy to bend no matter the geometry (unless you add fullers, these might help a bit). It would depend much more on steel and heat treat if the sword buckles or not, but apex deformation (roll or chip) can be reduced even by a very small microbevel without changing the visible geometry. To me it looks like the Walter Sorrells one does have an agressive microbevel, but that also could just be the video quality or a shadow.
|
|
AndiTheBarvarian
Member
"Lord of the Memes"
Bavarianbarbarian - Semper Semprini
Posts: 10,124
|
Post by AndiTheBarvarian on Jun 9, 2024 12:13:21 GMT
Afaik bending resistance aka stiffness depends mostly on the broadness in the cross section. Making a shinogi is one possibility to increase this broadness without making the blade too heavy. Edge damage can be reduced by niku or a secondary bevel. I think both is not impossible in a hira zukuri blade, if you really want it and not simply use a shinogi zukuri blade. European kriegsmessers can be called hira zukuri design and no one complains it's only for knives.
|
|
|
Post by mrstabby on Jun 9, 2024 12:23:32 GMT
Thickness, yes. I meant that I don't think it makes much difference if it's 8mm thick only at one point/the spine or 8mm thick for a wider section.
EDIT: With microbevel I don't mean a secondary bevel as in Windlass, I mean you go over the edge after you are finished sharpening once or twice with stone or strop at a higher angle. You are barely able to see it but it can make a lot of difference on hard stuff like wood.
|
|
AndiTheBarvarian
Member
"Lord of the Memes"
Bavarianbarbarian - Semper Semprini
Posts: 10,124
|
Post by AndiTheBarvarian on Jun 9, 2024 12:42:27 GMT
Micro- aaand secondary bevel, next level...
|
|
|
Post by mrstabby on Jun 9, 2024 12:56:12 GMT
And make it convex!
EDIT: I don't want to derail the thread, but now I wonder if you could weld a tungsten carbide edge into a spring steel body. If the carbide doesn't fracture under impact conditions, this would make one hell of a sword.
|
|
|
Post by larason2 on Jun 9, 2024 23:55:24 GMT
Don't want to derail the thread either, but there's this thread: weldingweb.com/vbb/threads/21698-Welding-tungsten-carbideSo you can't really weld it. You can braze it on with silver solder, but that won't be super strong if the edge gets any sheer stress. Tungsten carbide is also quite brittle, like diamond, so you can have it crack off. It would keep a wicked edge though! On soft targets it would cut through it like hot butter. One bad cut though, and you're probably having pieces of tungsten carbide falling off.
|
|
|
Post by mrstabby on Jun 10, 2024 6:28:08 GMT
There are good and bad tungsten carbides. The better ones are insanely impact resistant, though most of the carbide out there isn't best quality. I mean if you can use it on steel at 1000s RPM or in impact drills, it should survive sword use. Also applicable to the brazing. I imagine the tungsten carbide would not be easier to damage than the high hardness steel edges of nihonto. Look up Sandrine Knives, good carbide, yes they chip, but takea a lot in the newer generation. Of course any damage would be a hoe to remove on a 70HRC T-C edge. Still would be interested how it really does, even if it's stupidly expensive.
|
|
|
Post by wildv on Jun 10, 2024 7:08:25 GMT
I don't think this is derailing... Just adding to the original question, hypothetical "best" steels and swords is a good discussion.
|
|
|
Post by Roscoe57 on Jun 19, 2024 16:25:59 GMT
SN490 steel Mukade Ni Katana-Ron Chen The Mukade Katana flows in one smooth curve from the kissaski to the kashira flawlessly. The brown Japanese silk ito grips gently in the hand as its intricately wrapped in katatemaki style around white same (ray skin). The long menuki feature the kanji from Sun Tzu mantra as well as give focus and firmness in the tsuka. The 14" tsuka allows for versatility in your grip. To allow for strength and flexibility, the 29 7/8" blade is made from SN490 steel which is that same steel used in the construction of buildings in Japan that's resistant to earthquakes. Limited to 20 handmade pieces by Ron Chen himself.
|
|
|
Post by mrstabby on Jun 19, 2024 16:39:06 GMT
SN490? C 0,18-0,22% Si 0,55% Mn 1,6% Honestly I am not sure this is suitable for swords. It's about half a strong as S5 (tensile and yield strength). Hopefully it is something different on a 6000$ sword.
|
|
|
Post by wildv on Jun 20, 2024 7:34:04 GMT
SN490 steel Mukade Ni Katana-Ron Chen The Mukade Katana flows in one smooth curve from the kissaski to the kashira flawlessly. The brown Japanese silk ito grips gently in the hand as its intricately wrapped in katatemaki style around white same (ray skin). The long menuki feature the kanji from Sun Tzu mantra as well as give focus and firmness in the tsuka. The 14" tsuka allows for versatility in your grip. To allow for strength and flexibility, the 29 7/8" blade is made from SN490 steel which is that same steel used in the construction of buildings in Japan that's resistant to earthquakes. Limited to 20 handmade pieces by Ron Chen himself. I saw their first run of this sword and if they were charging the same price for this iteration, you're being ripped off! The fittings look cast and poorly made copies of their original run... The same wrap on the saya is nice but I'd avoid this one honestly.
|
|