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Post by wildv on Feb 28, 2024 3:47:03 GMT
If what you are concerned with is the most durable sword overall and are not as concerned with edge retention from what I have seen the s5 is hard to beat. An l6 blade by Howard Clark is an amazing blend of toughness and edge retention but will most likely be less resistant to shock than s5 if it is properly heat treated. The amazing thing about the l6 by Howard Clark is it blends some of the characteristics of a through hardened blade with the benifits of a differential heat treated blade. It also has the added bonus of a real hamon as well for a more traditional look. I personally have never been a fan of a blade with no hamon. If your beating steel into a rock or other metal objects chose the s5 if you want a sword blade that will be uktra resistant while making a great cutter and martial arts sword chose the Howard Clark. This is great! Thanks. If you wanted to buy this s5 sword, where would you get it?
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Post by blairbob on Feb 28, 2024 5:37:02 GMT
CloudHammerForge/RVAKatana
ShadowDancer/DragonSword advertises an S5 sword though I don't think I've seen any review drop of them (particularly trying to beat the hell out of them which would prove they are made of S5)
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Post by AndiTheBarvarian on Feb 28, 2024 6:14:17 GMT
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Post by toddstratton1 on Feb 28, 2024 6:16:49 GMT
I really wonder what would happen with an S5 Shock steel sword that is differently hardened and has a different way of heat treatment, if it would help the edge retention more. While keeping the same level of durability. It really is like a magic sword for not taking much damage from a lot of abuse. For regular training purposes you probably won't ever need or use the extra toughness of the S5, while simultaneously having a sword that needs re sharpening more often, which seems a bit of a hassle. But maybe kept away as a "doomsday" sword is an interesting thought.
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Post by AndiTheBarvarian on Feb 28, 2024 6:28:04 GMT
And like always we come to the conclusion that the heat treatment and blade geometry are much more important than the steel. The riddle of steel? 1045 !!
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Post by wildv on Feb 28, 2024 11:18:31 GMT
And like always we come to the conclusion that the heat treatment and blade geometry are much more important than the steel. The riddle of steel? 1045 !! I know there are lots of threads similar to this that trail off into this scenario or that idea, I'm hoping we can just stay on track here.
toddstratton1 you have an interesting idea there! I wonder if it has been tested or not yet?
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Post by AndiTheBarvarian on Feb 28, 2024 11:36:12 GMT
Unlike most "best steel" threads you asked the much better question for the best blade. This includes the smith, the blade geometry and the heat treatment, the really important things. But the thread started to run into the "best steel" direction unfortunately. I personally look for a reputable smith, forge or company, then try to get the blade geometry I want, and let the smith/forge use the steel they want, they probably know better than me. I made enough mistakes, I definitely don't know all things better. But it's also fun to have such threads.
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Post by mrstabby on Feb 28, 2024 17:39:58 GMT
I really wonder what would happen with an S5 Shock steel sword that is differently hardened and has a different way of heat treatment, if it would help the edge retention more. While keeping the same level of durability. It really is like a magic sword for not taking much damage from a lot of abuse. For regular training purposes you probably won't ever need or use the extra toughness of the S5, while simultaneously having a sword that needs re sharpening more often, which seems a bit of a hassle. But maybe kept away as a "doomsday" sword is an interesting thought. I think S5 can't be DH, it's too deep hardening for that.
I have been thinking though, with direct blade contact for example a harder blade will incur less damage than a super tough but softer one, no? So where would super steel toughness actually have an impact? Something like a 55HRC 5160/9260 will outlast a 52HRC S5 I imagine. The softer will get deeper nicks and bigger stress risers. At the same hardness, I think they would get damaged quite similarly, although a deep nick might be less able to propagate through the unique structure of bainite (like you can see in Howards test video), is the same true for S5? IDK. The normal spring steels already are very resistant to chipping, so the only real leg up for super steels I can see is bending tolerance. So wouldn't it be best to look for a hard and tough sword, not THE toughest?
I hope I make some sense, hard time collecting my toughts today, sorry. I know, wasn't what was asked, but I wonder how much toughness really matters beyond a certain point.
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Post by jckang on Mar 2, 2024 12:55:26 GMT
5160 is the go to for many smiths who want TH spring steel for European swords partly from availablity and partly due to its very well understood heat treat. Longship Armoury doesn’t exactly do katana, but they do single edged cutters that come out very katana like and, again from report, tend to be very durable. The newer Supreme Cutter from Lancelot Chan are made with a similar steel, but I can’t recall anyone making katana with 5160 at the moment. Used to be quite popular though. KC Swedish Powder steel was the bugei standby and seems to have produced generally durable blades, but, again, that ended up very model dependent as certain geometries maximized that durability. Dragon King Spring Sakura is 5160.
k120c was discontinued by Assab as the started pushing assab88.
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Post by AndiTheBarvarian on Mar 2, 2024 18:54:27 GMT
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Post by jdc on Mar 3, 2024 21:16:26 GMT
Matt Jensen posted a review of a Shadow Dancer hira zukuri a few weeks ago - made of through-hardened S5 and meant to be a cutter. Mine's on order. ;-)
Check it out:
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Post by Gelue on Mar 4, 2024 5:22:00 GMT
Just be aware the hira zukuri geometry is designed for light targets. It would probably handle bamboo but I would cautious on that with the thin edge.
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Post by Roscoe57 on Mar 4, 2024 15:58:33 GMT
I have a Z-Sey S-7. So far I have cut green bamboo and used Tatami mats with this one. Still as sharp enough to cut paper with. Well worth the money.
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Post by crazyjons on Mar 4, 2024 16:02:35 GMT
I have the dragon sword S7 model that juardian did a YouTube review of. He smacked some large ice blocks hard enough you could hear the tachikaze and it peeled back the habaki a bit. The edge was blunted a slight amount, easily fixed with a few swipes of a diamond Stone. I feel like it's a pretty tough katana all around. What it doesn't have is a beautiful hamon or anything interesting to look at in the steel.
Jon
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