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Post by mythosequidae on Nov 16, 2008 14:18:56 GMT
Good Day. I have noticed that people take quite a lickin' when they sell their modern production swords. Lots are lucky to get half what they paid. If it was display only, it's as good or better (fussy owner) than new. Many have been discontinued which should make them more valuable. I can use a welder for a year and sell it for what I paid. Why don't these tools hold value. I'm not thinking about antique blades, just $100-$1500 range. My opinion is that there are simply not enough people who buy swords, so the buyer reigns. Is it like this out side of North America? Thanks.
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Marc Ridgeway
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Retired Global Moderator
"The best cost less when you buy it the first time." - Papabear
Posts: 3,122
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Post by Marc Ridgeway on Nov 16, 2008 14:49:30 GMT
The thing is, production swords are just not investment grade, and not truly collectable in the strictest sense of the word.The market is down all over right now... and the prices of luxury consumer goods is really suffering.
Usually , top-name smith pieces are investment grade , and highly collectable along with antiques... in this market, the prices of many top quality pieces are in a range that once bespoke of mid-to high production pieces.
Also SBG is focused on under $300 swords, and is a very price driven marketplace... it's hard to sell an expensive swords here... many have better luck at SFI , MyArmoury, or through connections in dojos and kendo clubs... even eBay.I've had better luck lately selling in the European market.
I have many friends in the industry, craftsmen, importers, retailers, practioners... as such I rarely pay retail for a sword, usually wholesale. I can use it a couple of times , review it, and sell it as used without violating the wholesalers MAP. I often price them low... to sell quick... as I am not in it for the money, only to play with swords ;D
One notable exception, in my case, are Angus Trim swords. I have bought a few , always at retail... and sold most on eBay for a large profit, way over retail... I guess people want Gus's swords , and don't want to wait....
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Post by hotspur on Nov 16, 2008 15:05:40 GMT
I don't see this as an exact formula for this. There are occasions where a discontinued item may hold or even increase in value but it is uncommon in the long range. I've a Dan Armstrong guitar from 1969 I paid a lot of money ($400 with extras) for at the time, more than retail and a few years after discontinued. That value has ten fold since the 1970s but it would be a manner of finding the right buyer.
I would hope I might be able to find an A&A German Bastard I bought used some time ago and maybe break even. I paid just more than that $400 and I then ordered another scabbard from the source. Those plain leather scabbards are $100. Even with the addition of the scabbard, I'd probably be lucky to sell it at that. I have tenatively put it at $450 as a sale item value.
Even Vince Evans and Kevin Cashen knives I have would probably reach only what I posted. Those would be one ofs and only as picy as one would have to have. Certain others like a Randall knife or long gone Bench Mark might reach a premium. As with some other knives, some might find a niche looking to collect the uncommon remaining pieces.
My old Hanwei PK katana? I doubt it would reach the $100. My first Windlass at $235 in 1999? I like it but I doubt I'd reach $100 for it.
Some premiums might reach mint retail value and we see some do better than others. Crisp A&A or Albion are probably worth some paying close to retail, rarely more.
I generally look at most of my production swords as about half. The thing is that sso many can buy brand new at lower prices than many buy reproduction swords. Roughly new less than $300 new doesn't leave much interest in a premium someone might just as well buy new. so many of my cheapies fall in that class.
Demand can make a difference for some markets.
Cheers
Hotspur; I came to the train of thought that many antiues I like are cheaper than high end production swords and will hold the antique market a lot moe sensibly
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Post by shadowhowler on Nov 16, 2008 16:50:20 GMT
I would think some of it comes down to trust issues also. It's hard enough to trust a retailer when you buying a sword sight-unseen on the internet... (Which is why this community is so important. We can help each other, because no one of us is going to be able to test EVERY sword.) but to trust another random person? Tricky. I've bought two second hand swords so far... one was great and exactly as described, the other? Not so much. Thats a 50/50 ratio... not great when dealing with money that dose not grow on trees. I think this at least in part plays into the 'value' of second hand weapons. You never can be 100% sure until you have it in your hands, so you are willing to risk less. I would think if their was a shop that had second hand swords they might be able to get a bit more then we online. I see swords sort of in the same venue as cars in this case tho... the moment you drive a car off the lot, even a few miles, it has DRASTICLY depricated in value by thousands of dollers. I worked in the auto industry for around 7 years... I have seen people buy a car, and then trade it in only a few weeks later and a multiple thousand doller loss. Sad.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 16, 2008 19:06:40 GMT
^I second that. Although, if from a reasonably trustworthy source - I would rather buy used. Especially if I know the blade has already been tested. Just from the information on this site, I felt comfortable buying used from Brian (DBK); and am very happy about the sword. It doesn't mean I'd be willing to pay retail for a used sword. Everything sells according to the market. Period. And special pieces require special buyers (along with the seller's ability to wait for said buyer). Most of us don't have that luxury. When we sell, it is because we need to - and that makes anything a buyer's market; unfortunately for the seller. I know I see several swords for sale here right now; that if I were not so strapped, they would be too good to pass up. And so it goes... ![;)](//storage.forums.net/forum/images/smiley/wink.png)
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 16, 2008 19:42:07 GMT
Depreciation happens with most mid to low price items, unless you’re investing in an item that’s top of the range it’s just not going to hold its money.
I don’t think this is any big surprise, after all would you be prepared to pay more for a second hand sword then you would for an identical but new one? Even if the sword is out of production, unless I really wanted that sword, it makes no difference to me whether I buy that particular sword or a similar one that’s still in production.
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