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Post by marcjer on Feb 19, 2024 13:13:43 GMT
Hello, Does anyone recognize the proof stud symbol? (IRON CROSS)
LINK ABOVE
(trying to attach jpg files under 1MB ) I have what seems to be an unsharpened 1897 British infantry sword with a King George the 5th cypher. I think it might be authentic, but I'm not sure. It has a shagreen/ray-skin wrapped handle and braided wire in the handle as well. One thing that might help is if I could identify the blade maker. I don't think it is a Wilkinson (WW), Pillin (P), Thurkle (T), but guessing it might be a German import ? If so, does it detract from the value or authenticity of the sword? I can't find any other telling markings/inscriptions/serial numbers.
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Post by treeslicer on Feb 19, 2024 14:46:44 GMT
IMHO, it's a German import. To tell the truth, most of them were, no matter whose marks were on the ricasso.
More photos, and all of them loaded to the forum, would be appreciated.
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Post by marcjer on Feb 19, 2024 21:12:06 GMT
Thanks Tree slicer,
I've added more pictures if that will help.
If it is a German Import, would the "iron cross" indicate the blade maker?
Ex: Eikhorn? Heller? Weyersburg?
I picked this up in a garage sale. The seller said he picked it up from a buddy who was dumping his family's stuff.
I don't think it is a replica, but like to be sure.
Thanks again for your insight.
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Post by treeslicer on Feb 20, 2024 4:27:20 GMT
Thanks Tree slicer,
I've added more pictures if that will help.
If it is a German Import, would the "iron cross" indicate the blade maker?
Ex: Eikhorn? Heller? Weyersburg?
I picked this up in a garage sale. The seller said he picked it up from a buddy who was dumping his family's stuff.
I don't think it is a replica, but like to be sure.
Thanks again for your insight.
The more that I look at the new pictures, the more that I suspect that this is some sort of a repro, or a theatrical/movie prop. The quality of the blade etching and hilt stampings is very poor, and it shows no maker's marks. I've never seen a proof slug like that, either.
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Post by marcjer on Feb 20, 2024 12:35:04 GMT
Thanks Treeslicer.
Are there any other definitive steps that I could take to figure it out? For example, would the weight or dimensions be helpful.
Would a magnet help to determine steel qualities? I will start looking at re-enactment equipment vendors to see if I can find a match.
Thanks again!
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Post by marcjer on Feb 20, 2024 13:16:57 GMT
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Post by treeslicer on Feb 20, 2024 17:48:28 GMT
Going by the photos on that site, Lantern swords don't include proof slugs. My guess is that what you have is older vintage from when wallhanger makers didn't cut as many corners as they do nowadays. Notice that, while it doesn't look right for an original, real rayskin was used on the grip.
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Post by marcjer on Feb 20, 2024 20:46:55 GMT
Thanks Tree Cutter,
Hoping to find out who this "vintage wall hanger maker" is. Also, I'd like to know if it is a "functional" reproduction or just a "decorative" one.... not that I'd be swinging it around.
Really appreciate the input.
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Post by doc21 on Mar 17, 2024 21:44:59 GMT
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Post by marcjer on Apr 4, 2024 12:31:46 GMT
Thank you Doc21. You are awesome! The Langhams site was so helpful! I found the proof disc there! It says the disc was associated with Sheffield steel trade. Possibly Fenton Bros. As they were the only known makers to use the Maltese cross: " 1910 to 1936 Identification Proved around a central Maltese cross with a dot at the 6 o'clock position. This is similar to 105 although the cross appears larger in 190 and no dot can be seen in 105. Research notes Identified from a single example of an 1897 infantry officer's sword marked to the hilt for GRv. The etching on the blade is absent or worn away. The grip appears very poorly fitted with the backstrap and overall the swords has a typical poor quality associated with the Sheffield manufacturers of WW1. The Maltese cross is itself said to be associated with the Sheffield steel trade, suggesting the likely origin of this sword " Does this lean the swords towards a legit antique? I'll try to do more research on FENTON BROS. It does looks similar to : www.antique-swords.com/I54-Fenton-Sheffield-WW1-British-Infantry-Officers.html
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Post by madirish on Apr 4, 2024 18:53:59 GMT
That was going to be my point.....the Sheffield stuff is considered lower quality, which accounts for some of the deficiencies. Also note that it was another 1897 that the proof disk in Langham's was found.
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Post by marcjer on Apr 8, 2024 1:17:55 GMT
Awesome. Thanks this explains a lot. So, it seems like genuine 1897...albeit lower tier in quality (sheffield). Still, I really lucked out find this in a garage sale for under $100!
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