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Post by metinemre on Jan 15, 2024 3:59:27 GMT
Please excuse my ignorance and lack of experience.
Please tell me if this is normal or expected?
I had maybe a dozen or a little more swords that I bought and sold in the last decade.
Some Albions, Atrims and Lundemo`s.
My previous experiences, I noticed on similar profile blades, some felt very stiff and not whippy at all with similar weight and length. When tapped at the pommel tip or 1/2 of the front would whip a little but I could call it flexible not whippy at all
On few swords tip or the front hardly moved with a hard tap at the pommel and I would call them stiff swords.
Today I handled a few long swords with 34-36 inch blades. (won`t name the manufacturer because I don`t want the debate go elsewhere) Tips, most likely 1/3 at the front of the blade would dance and whip without even tapping the pommel. By only holding and moving. When you just hold the sword and the tip is dancing and vibrating does that mean it is very whippy and potentially won`t cut well or very well done distal taper? Never experienced this on any sword before.
Thanks for your inout.
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Post by Lord Newport on Jan 15, 2024 4:06:11 GMT
Without knowing the style/design/oakeshott typology/ manufacturer its hard to draw any conclusions or comment.
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Post by larason2 on Jan 15, 2024 4:30:05 GMT
There's some contribution of the type of metal to how flexible a blade is, but most of the flexibility comes from the geometry. For instance, take the blades of Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon. All of them made by the same Taiwanese smith, all of them flexible to the extreme. You can see in the film that they are all very narrow along the whole length. One of the most flexible types of metal is carbon steel that's received a spring temper. They call this spring steel.
On the other hand are other swords like the Ming era qian or the katana, which have practically no flexibility. This comes from very thick sections along the whole length, giving them substantial stiffness.
Somewhere in between is a sword with good distal taper. You can get good flexibility of the tip with more robustness at the base.
All of these can cut well, but they cut differently. The more flexible a blade is, the more it undulates as it moves through the air, and the more it will put undulations in the surface of what is cut. It's a bit harder to control, but such a blade can move faster. when coming in contact with a stouter blade, it will have less momentum and therefore pushing power. It will also be less useful against harder targets.
So there isn't necessarily better or worse, just different characteristics and pros and cons. Personally I prefer them of the stouter variety!
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Post by metinemre on Jan 15, 2024 4:44:32 GMT
Without knowing the style/design/oakeshott typology/ manufacturer its hard to draw any conclusions or comment. I totally understand but I can`t give too much info since it is sensitive for me because I don`t want to break any ice or offend anyone at this moment.
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Post by metinemre on Jan 15, 2024 4:48:53 GMT
Thank you larason2
Also I was able to discuss this openly right after I posted, in private so I understand this whole whippy, stiff and flexible much better now. From what I learnt also length of the blade is very important and a few inches in length could make a whole a lot of difference even on pretty much identical steel with spring temper, shape, distal taper and overall weight. Weight of the blade vs effects of the weight of the guard and pommel.
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Post by AndiTheBarvarian on Jan 15, 2024 5:07:14 GMT
Indeed the steel type has more or less no effect, also heat treatment. Stiffness is all in the blade geometry, in principle in the cross section. Double area cross section is double stiff. Very important is the maximum thickness, double thick means 8 times stiffer.
The length works indirekt. Of course if you have two blades with the same weight the longer one has a smaller cross section, so less stiff. And more length also has more leverage. Also the distribution of the mass makes a difference, more mass where more leverage works, distal taper for the right cross section at the right place.
Some sword types have thin blades for better cutting, f.e viking swords, ergo less stiff. Some are very long and have to be stiff, so a slender but thick cross section = rapier/estoc. And all between.
Some two handers can feel relatively whippy but still work well, usually for cutting, not for thrusts.
And of course sometimes it's just bad work. If you have some experience with swords and think one is too whippy, it probably is!
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mrstabby
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Post by mrstabby on Jan 15, 2024 11:32:37 GMT
It does not take much to make something whippy. I have two 22" machetes, one is 2,6mm the other 2mm thick. The 2mm thick one I would classify as "whippy". You can really feel it lagging behind when you change direction mid swing. Also flopps around a lot when you hit something with it. Hate the feeling, but it cuts extremely well because it is so thin. Still hate using it.
The geometry has the most influence on stiffness (specifically how thick the blade is compared to its lenth and width), but everybody has a different definition of whippiness, just like with sharpness. That's why you can't get a straight definition for it. To me blades that lack (or have very little) distal taper tend to feel more whippy than ones with distal taper at similar dimensions. Even if the tapered one is more flexible at the tip, there is less mass for inertia to flex the blade while in use.
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