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Post by xingyusword on Jan 7, 2024 6:56:34 GMT
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AndiTheBarvarian
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Post by AndiTheBarvarian on Jan 7, 2024 9:33:27 GMT
Nice, but what is self-refining steel?
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Post by mrstabby on Jan 7, 2024 9:48:36 GMT
Probably like "doing it yourself".
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AndiTheBarvarian
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Post by AndiTheBarvarian on Jan 7, 2024 10:07:44 GMT
Yeah, I assumed "self-refined" oroshigane, but wanted to ask.
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Post by xingyusword on Jan 7, 2024 11:59:31 GMT
Nice, but what is self-refining steel? Self-refining steel forged according to the carbon content of tamahagane. But I can't say it's tamahagane. wait, I'll get yelled at.
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AndiTheBarvarian
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Post by AndiTheBarvarian on Jan 7, 2024 12:17:06 GMT
Yeah, that's a problem. Is it made in a bloomery or in a crucible before forging?
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Post by mrstabby on Jan 7, 2024 12:45:53 GMT
Better off calling it "traditional bloomery/crucible steel (similar to tamahagane/wootz)", then most will know what it is and hopefully nobody is angry. For the ones not in too deep, the crucible steel is closer to wootz, the bloomery steel closer to tamahagane. Since both are region and/or time specific it's dangerous to mention the wrong word to the geeks.
Either way, the pattern looks pretty nice. Though I am philistine and like what I like, so it might not be to the liking of the traditionalists, I have no idea.
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Post by xingyusword on Jan 7, 2024 13:09:28 GMT
Yeah, that's a problem. Is it made in a bloomery or in a crucible before forging? Forged in the furnace
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Post by mrstabby on Jan 7, 2024 13:21:19 GMT
Yeah, that's a problem. Is it made in a bloomery or in a crucible before forging? Forged in the furnace he means this: or (first has no chinese equivalent page, sorry)
The difference is one does not fully make the metal liquid and the steel keeps a lot of carbon but also impurities you need to forge out, the other makes the metal fully liquid and takes out all carbon so you have to add it back in.
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AndiTheBarvarian
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Post by AndiTheBarvarian on Jan 7, 2024 13:50:41 GMT
When the iron becomes liquid in a blast furnace it becomes pig iron/cast iron with 4+ % carbon, which can't be forged, only cast. It has to be decarbonized to get forgable steel.
In a bloomery in principle only the slack becomes liquid and runs down while blooms/sponges of iron and steel remain above. During this process the iron in the ore/iron-sand is carbonized to steel. The blooms have different carbon content and slack inclusions which have to be forged out. Tamahagane has to be made this way.
The other process with the decarbonization of pig iron is a traditional old Chinese method of steel making, totally ok, but it's just not tamahagane.
I misunderstood the thread title first because "self-refining" sounded to me like the steel refines itself in some mysterious way, which made me curious. I would have understood: "self-refined".
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Post by mrstabby on Jan 7, 2024 14:01:50 GMT
When the iron becomes liquid in a blast furnace it becomes pig iron/cast iron with 4+ % carbon, which can't be forged, only cast. It has to be decarbonized to get forgable steel. In a bloomery in principle only the slack becomes liquid and runs down while blooms/sponges of iron and steel remain above. During this process the iron in the ore/iron-sand is carbonized to steel. The blooms have different carbon content and slack inclusions which have to be forged out. Tamahagane has to be made this way. The other process with the decarbonization of pig iron is a traditional old Chinese method of steel making, totally ok, but it's just not tamahagane. I misunderstood the thread title first because "self-refining" sounded to me like the steel refines itself in some mysterious way, which made me curious. I would have understood: "self-refined". The old translation trouble then.
Thanks and sorry, I thought the wrong way again, the blast furnace makes high carbon, wrought iron is low carbon. Too caught up in finding the chinese translations of the terms.
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Post by randomnobody on Jan 7, 2024 14:57:35 GMT
I interpreted "self-refining steel" as "steel we refined ourselves" but there was a brief moment where my brain struggled to process how a steel would refine itself.
I wonder if calling it "oroshigane" would be appropriate-enough in this context, or of we should stick to something like "home-made steel" for simplicity?
Looks good, anyway.
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AndiTheBarvarian
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Post by AndiTheBarvarian on Jan 7, 2024 15:21:01 GMT
Forge made very high carbon steel? Doesn't sound bad for marketing. Oroshigane would be ok if they compose it in a crucible.
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Post by mrstabby on Jan 7, 2024 15:30:01 GMT
How about a video about how you produce it and linking that to the steel? Don't have to go in too deep details, a forge and a few sparks flying makes anything cool.
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Post by Arlequin on Jan 8, 2024 9:35:37 GMT
How about a video about how you produce it and linking that to the steel? Don't have to go in too deep details, a forge and a few sparks flying makes anything cool. Indeed, a few well shot clips of the process would help alieve allot of peoples doubts. And I agree I think he can get away with calling it Oroshigane if legit, would help with marketing, especially since there's allot of baggage associated with Chinese forges claiming they have tamahagane lol
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Post by xingyusword on Jan 8, 2024 16:20:21 GMT
How about a video about how you produce it and linking that to the steel? Don't have to go in too deep details, a forge and a few sparks flying makes anything cool. Indeed, a few well shot clips of the process would help alieve allot of peoples doubts. And I agree I think he can get away with calling it Oroshigane if legit, would help with marketing, especially since there's allot of baggage associated with Chinese forges claiming they have tamahagane lol I agree. I'll think about it.
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Post by crazyjons on Jan 11, 2024 21:28:55 GMT
Forge made very high carbon steel? Doesn't sound bad for marketing. Oroshigane would be ok if they compose it in a crucible. I don't think tamahagane ever comes anywhere near a crucible.
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Post by treeslicer on Jan 11, 2024 22:17:34 GMT
Forge made very high carbon steel? Doesn't sound bad for marketing. Oroshigane would be ok if they compose it in a crucible. Forge made very high carbon steel? Doesn't sound bad for marketing. Oroshigane would be ok if they compose it in a crucible. I don't think tamahagane ever comes anywhere near a crucible. It doesn't, and neither does oroshigane (though oroshigane may have some pieces of crucible steel folded in). Melting tamahagane would homogenize it, and destroy the unique micro- and nanostructures formed in the tatara. IMHO, not being made in a tatara is why "Chinese tamahagane" is not tamahagane at all.
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AndiTheBarvarian
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Post by AndiTheBarvarian on Jan 12, 2024 5:31:54 GMT
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