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Post by swordsurgeon on Jan 6, 2024 23:59:20 GMT
Debating between the Albion Poitiers and Knight. I slightly prefer the aesthetic of the Poitiers but am concerned it will not perform as well as the Knight in practice cutting, given the more thrust oriented bade. Does anyone have experience with either/could compare them?
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Post by toddstratton1 on Jan 7, 2024 1:07:46 GMT
The pointers is the least optimized blade type for cutting. So the Knight is superior in that regard. But you should get what you like and enjoy the most. The poiters is a great looking sword.
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Post by alientude on Jan 7, 2024 2:14:12 GMT
I did a review of the Lancaster, which is the same blade as the Poitiers. It is able to cut decently, but it'll never be a competition cutter, that's for sure!
Kult of Athena does have a Knight in stock right now, if that makes a difference. They also had a Poitiers, but looks like it sold recently.
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Post by eastman on Jan 7, 2024 2:45:27 GMT
the in stock at KoA knight will save you a 2 year wait (as long as you like red leather with satin furniture)
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Post by ggower on Jan 7, 2024 5:59:38 GMT
Every sword fan ought to own a Knight at some point if possible.
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AJGBlack
Member
"This world will stress you like Orson Wells on the radio." -RTJ
Posts: 388
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Post by AJGBlack on Jan 7, 2024 14:32:00 GMT
I was lucky enough to get to meet Peter Johnson when he visited Albion in 2008. Someone in the group asked what sword he would use if the need arose. His pick was the Poiters. The Knight is the quintessential medieval sword, but the Poiters is nimble in the hand in a way that the Knight isn't. I think what it boils down to is use. Are you on foot, facing lightly armord or unaarmored opponents? Or are you on horseback and foot against opponents with heavier armor and possibly using shields?
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Post by curiomansion on Jan 8, 2024 8:11:36 GMT
I agree to get what you want, unless a good cutter is super important to you. I haven't cut with the Poiters, but I own the similar Duke of Urbino, and that cuts well enough for backyard cutting and tatami well enough, especially at the CoP. Heavier targets are a no go.
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Post by blackngold on Jan 9, 2024 0:52:30 GMT
I have never handled the "Knight" model, but I have handled the "Poitiers", along with many other Albion swords.
Of their entire lineup, the Poitiers is probably the quickest and most agile. I remember being very surprised by its' combination of speed and precision.
Probably not going to cut through a thigh-thick roll of newspaper, but the pin-point accuracy at the tip that this sword is capable of may cause you not to care about cutting through said roll of newspaper!
If at all possible-- try to find some friends who will let you handle a Knight and Poitiers and determine which one calls to you.
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Post by Lionhardt on Jan 18, 2024 5:42:34 GMT
They are very different. Depends on what you want. If you like a sword that Instills confidence get the Poitiers. If you want a floppy noodle get the Knight. But seriously, it was WAY too floppy for me. I sold it immediately. It was quite disappointing. But having decently stiff blades on a functional sword is super important to me. I believe Albion makes many of their swords unhistorically floppy. Valiant Armoury's version of similar swords are just stiffer somehow, while being about the same weight, how they should be. (To me).
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Post by toddstratton1 on Jan 18, 2024 5:53:59 GMT
They are very different. Depends on what you want. If you like a sword that Instills confidence get the Poitiers. If you want a floppy noodle get the Knight. But seriously, it was WAY too floppy for me. I sold it immediately. It was quite disappointing. But having decently stiff blades on a functional sword is super important to me. I believe Albion makes many of their swords unhistorically floppy. Valiant Armoury's version of similar swords are just stiffer somehow, while being about the same weight, how they should be. (To me). Really? I had a caithness and laird before and neither of them seemed overly too floppy, however there were other albions I have handled that had quite a bit more flex than those ones. Albeit there is quite a bit of flex when used with cutting certain targets and etc. But not as much as some of the XI or XIII swords I've seen. All of which were long swords, which by nature are more woobly in general due to longer blade. Nothing wrong with what you are thinking of course it's just interesting to hear that perspective. The floppiest sword I ever owned was the angus trim Exeter. It handled amazing and felt really good in the hand. But hitting the sword to see center of percussion and such, man that thing shaked like jello lol
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Post by fester on Jan 18, 2024 20:46:30 GMT
They are very different. Depends on what you want. If you like a sword that Instills confidence get the Poitiers. If you want a floppy noodle get the Knight. But seriously, it was WAY too floppy for me. I sold it immediately. It was quite disappointing. But having decently stiff blades on a functional sword is super important to me. I believe Albion makes many of their swords unhistorically floppy. Valiant Armoury's version of similar swords are just stiffer somehow, while being about the same weight, how they should be. (To me). Really? I had a caithness and laird before and neither of them seemed overly too floppy, however there were other albions I have handled that had quite a bit more flex than those ones. Albeit there is quite a bit of flex when used with cutting certain targets and etc. But not as much as some of the XI or XIII swords I've seen. All of which were long swords, which by nature are more woobly in general due to longer blade. Nothing wrong with what you are thinking of course it's just interesting to hear that perspective. The floppiest sword I ever owned was the angus trim Exeter. It handled amazing and felt really good in the hand. But hitting the sword to see center of percussion and such, man that thing shaked like jello lol I owned a Knight in the past it was fine and not floppy. I have not had an Albion sword with a floppy blade.
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Post by Lord Newport on Jan 18, 2024 20:52:25 GMT
They are very different. Depends on what you want. If you like a sword that Instills confidence get the Poitiers. If you want a floppy noodle get the Knight. But seriously, it was WAY too floppy for me. I sold it immediately. It was quite disappointing. But having decently stiff blades on a functional sword is super important to me. I believe Albion makes many of their swords unhistorically floppy. V aliant Armoury's version of similar swords are just stiffer somehow, while being about the same weight, how they should be. (To me). Just wondering what historical swords you have actually handled to base your claim on? Have you handled any swords made to be exact replica's of known museum pieces?
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Post by Lionhardt on Jan 18, 2024 23:45:36 GMT
It is all personal preference. Blade stiffness is always a subject of big debate. But if you think about it, how could knights battle with floppy blades? They couldn't and wouldn't. Thin blades, sure. The specs are what they are, and have been measured. But I am convinced the originals were stiffer in general. What evidence? The only replica I have handled that was allegedly an exact replica was one of the Windlass Royal Armouries single handed XIVs. And it was nice and stiff, as it should be. But I have also handled a few genuine antiques and was allowed to see and feel their flex. One of my trips to Darksword Armory Eyal let me handle and flex some of his antique medieval swords. Thoughts on DSA aside, they were legitimate medieval antiques that I was allowed to handle and examine. And what do you know, light but nice and stiff, even his lenticular single hander. But again, a lot of it is personal preference. To say a Knight and or Knightly isn't floppy to me would be completely wrong. What are you comparing it to that it is not floppy? A Balaur XIV, another floppy blade? Sure, they are about the same. But any VA or even Arms & Armor comparable sword? Then yes, the knight/knightly is way to flexible. Yes it is a lenticular type blade. Aaaand it is too thin and flexible of a lenticular blade. Cool swords, but too flexible to be useful for much other than pool noodles and tatami. And not for me. I just speak it how it is. All I posted was so someone curious about the Knight knew how it was going to feel. If someone told me there was even a chance I would consider it floppy, I know I certainly would not have bought them. So let's not derail the discussion. This was about the Knight being floppy. That is it. Doesn't matter historical or not, that is a different discussion. Just that I was letting the poster know that it was floppy, and to make sure he was ok with that. And why I therefore recommended the Poitiers over it. That's all.
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Post by Lord Newport on Jan 18, 2024 23:52:11 GMT
It is all personal preference. Blade stiffness is always a subject of big debate. But if you think about it, how could knights battle with floppy blades? They couldn't and wouldn't. Thin blades, sure. The specs are what they are, and have been measured. But I am convinced the originals were stiffer in general. What evidence? The only replica I have handled that was allegedly an exact replica was one of the Windlass Royal Armouries single handed XIVs. And it was nice and stiff, as it should be. But I have also handled a few genuine antiques and was allowed to see and feel their flex. One of my trips to Darksword Armory Eyal let me handle and flex some of his antique medieval swords. Thoughts on DSA aside, they were legitimate medieval antiques that I was allowed to handle and examine. And what do you know, light but nice and stiff, even his lenticular single hander. But again, a lot of it is personal preference. To say a Knight and or Knightly isn't floppy to me would be completely wrong. What are you comparing it to that it is not floppy? A Balaur XIV, another floppy blade? Sure, they are about the same. But any VA or even Arms & Armor comparable sword? Then yes, the knight/knightly is way to flexible. Yes it is a lenticular type blade. Aaaand it is too thin and flexible of a lenticular blade. Cool swords, but too flexible to be useful for much other than pool noodles and tatami. And not for me. I just speak it how it is. All I posted was so someone curious about the Knight knew how it was going to feel. If someone told me there was even a chance I would consider it floppy, I know I certainly would not have bought them. So let's not derail the discussion. This was about the Knight being floppy. That is it. Doesn't matter historical or not, that is a different discussion. Just that I was letting the poster know that it was floppy, and to make sure he was ok with that. And why I therefore recommended the Poitiers over it. That's all. Dark Sword Armories... that esteemed manufacturer of "Battle Ready" swords? Sorry I can never take anyone who advertises their swords as "battle ready" as being serious. Cheers.
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Post by Lionhardt on Jan 19, 2024 0:04:49 GMT
Ha! Everyone always has to turn it into a DSA war. Two things: 1. I said nothing about DSA, other than that is where I handled genuine antique medieval swords. Eyal was very kind to let me handle them!
2. I was merely voicing that I consider the Knight a very flexible or floppy sword, to help guide the poster. Again, that is not wrong. I am not wrong. In my personal experience in handling many many swords, I consider the Knight to be quite floppy, and I don't recommend it to people. I think if they tried ANY other stiffer comparable sword, they would like it more. He asked for advice and experience. I gave it. Nothing but hands on experience with both recreation and antique medieval swords.... But that doesn't matter because I mentioned DSA. Facts don't matter at all as soon as someone mentions DSA in the same paragraph. Hilarious. I did not start some battle. I gave experience,facts, and my opinion of the flexibility of the sword. YOU twisted it into some weird DSA issue and started an argument. And I hope the moderators notice.
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Post by Lionhardt on Jan 19, 2024 0:13:34 GMT
Really? I had a caithness and laird before and neither of them seemed overly too floppy, however there were other albions I have handled that had quite a bit more flex than those ones. Albeit there is quite a bit of flex when used with cutting certain targets and etc. But not as much as some of the XI or XIII swords I've seen. All of which were long swords, which by nature are more woobly in general due to longer blade. Nothing wrong with what you are thinking of course it's just interesting to hear that perspective. The floppiest sword I ever owned was the angus trim Exeter. It handled amazing and felt really good in the hand. But hitting the sword to see center of percussion and such, man that thing shaked like jello lol I owned a Knight in the past it was fine and not floppy. I have not had an Albion sword with a floppy blade. It is all personal preference. to me I consider the Knight floppy. I would never want to use it in battle if I could pick something like the Squire or Poitiers, both much stiffer, while still being able to cut. It fascinates me that people don't consider it floppy. Such different experiences people have with swords! But that is ok! It is all opinion and personal preference, and neither of us are wrong.
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Post by mrstabby on Jan 19, 2024 9:21:45 GMT
Could also be your specific sword. Maybe it's thinner than its brothers, they do have some variation after all and half a millimeter give or take makes a lot of difference.
I do very much agree that it's personal preference, I put a 410g/~0,9lbs weight to the tip of my swords to see how much they flex (it's one of those welding magnets you can turn on and off) so I get a constant measurement.
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Post by toddstratton1 on Jan 19, 2024 10:50:41 GMT
I owned a Knight in the past it was fine and not floppy. I have not had an Albion sword with a floppy blade. It is all personal preference. to me I consider the Knight floppy. I would never want to use it in battle if I could pick something like the Squire or Poitiers, both much stiffer, while still being able to cut. It fascinates me that people don't consider it floppy. Such different experiences people have with swords! But that is ok! It is all opinion and personal preference, and neither of us are wrong. I hear you and it's fine to have that preference. But historically af the time an XII blade was used and earlier swords, none of them were historically very stiff Migration era to high medieval times. Because they didn't need to stab through gaps in plate armor and the like. No sword designs from those time periods were designed for the thrust that well, as they later developed to be much more specific for it in the 13th century onward for a time. When they had to try thrust through more than chainmail at the most. Some later swords developed much stiffer blades but narrower as well with a reinforced tip to be much more thrust oriented. Or swords that became a compromise between cut and thrust more. Like a type XVI, XVIII, etc. Katana were always more stiff than European swords even in earlier centuries because of how they were made and the design itself. But I don't know of any examples historically or modern reproduction of migration era to high medieval swords that are extremely stiff while being of the same blade typology of swords in that time period. At least in comparison to european swords that were later designed to be especially stiff for a specific purpose. You mentioned DSA, that company is pretty well known to overbuild their blades and historical recreation is not their focus at all like albions are, albions being built from tons of research and time with many original pieces. Valiant armoury also makes quite flexible blades as well on average. I owned quite a few of them and wouldn't say they were less flexible than the Albion counterparts for the same typology by any long shot, At least for the Craftsman series and Vision series line of swords. Albions are going to be by far the most historically accurate designs for medieval swords in the modern production market. That is their biggest specialty. But Valiant Armoury and Arms and Armor etc all make excellent swords as well.
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Post by Lionhardt on Jan 19, 2024 13:17:04 GMT
Fine points. And just to clarify again. The only reason I mentioned DSA was to say when at DSA, Eyal let me handle and flex his REAL antique medieval swords. Showing me they are not floppy. So, not talking about DSA swords at all, it rather genuine antiques from Eyal's private collection.
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Post by Lord Newport on Jan 19, 2024 14:36:57 GMT
Fine points. And just to clarify again. The only reason I mentioned DSA was to say when at DSA, Eyal let me handle and flex his REAL antique medieval swords. Showing me they are not floppy. So, not talking about DSA swords at all, it rather genuine antiques from Eyal's private collection. But, but...BATTLE READY!
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