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Post by mbman on Dec 27, 2023 3:31:30 GMT
Trying to help my friend who is now a widow and in need of some financial help This is what I know about this sword. Her husband was a physician in the army during the Korean war. He delivered a baby in a remote part of Korea and as a thanks the locals gave him this sword. It hung in a case in their house for as long as I have known them . That is the story and all I know Wonder if someone could identify it or give me direction on how to find out its identity and value . Thank you in advance
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Post by larason2 on Dec 27, 2023 15:45:11 GMT
Looks like a replica blade of some sort, likely made in China. The fittings for sure were made in China (There's a Zhong on the seppa). Definitely not Japanese.
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Post by mbman on Dec 27, 2023 15:49:47 GMT
thank you , so a Chinese replica from the Korean war time period ?Any value ?
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Post by larason2 on Dec 27, 2023 21:37:20 GMT
Not much, I'm afraid. There are a lot of these, and they aren't valued by collectors. At least it's one of the nicer replicas from that era.
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Post by mbman on Dec 28, 2023 2:21:26 GMT
thank you
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Post by randomnobody on Dec 28, 2023 5:54:49 GMT
How sure are we this is a replica? I'm seeing more signs that it is not than that it is. Very few replicas have this tsukamaki style, for one, never mind executed this well. I'm especially intrigued by the nakago. It looks super dark (very old) and massively shortened.
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Post by larason2 on Dec 28, 2023 14:52:25 GMT
Well, for one is the blade has the wrong profile. It has three facets on each side at one point, though it's not consistent along the length of the blade. The mune is also assymetrical at the tip. The nakago is dark, but it doesn't look like natural rust, looks more like a treatment. It's true the tsuka is well wrapped, but the ito is also laquered. The end has a gunto kashira, but otherwise there's no gunto fittings on the piece. So I could be wrong, but still overall I get the impression this is a replica.
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Post by mbman on Dec 28, 2023 15:52:45 GMT
could I upload better pictures or some type video ? Measurements? This is very sharp as in razor sharp. THe original owner once told me that this was a big deal when he received it from the family and that the whole village came out to present it. I guess it could be Chinese since they did fight in the Korean war If so is there a way that be determined ? I do know that the family has had it over 70 years
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Post by randomnobody on Dec 28, 2023 16:18:28 GMT
Well, for one is the blade has the wrong profile. It has three facets on each side at one point, though it's not consistent along the length of the blade. The mune is also assymetrical at the tip. The nakago is dark, but it doesn't look like natural rust, looks more like a treatment. It's true the tsuka is well wrapped, but the ito is also laquered. The end has a gunto kashira, but otherwise there's no gunto fittings on the piece. So I could be wrong, but still overall I get the impression this is a replica. I'm not sure I'm seeing the facets you're describing, but I'll have to look on a proper monitor rather than my phone screen. Lighting is not great so it could be affecting the appearance of everything. Lacquered ito is not uncommon, and it could just be well-used. My own antique has a somewhat glossy look due to the wear in the silk and the accumulation of oils etc over time. Kabutogane are not exclusive to gunto, but are usually matched to other handachi koshirae, which are absent on this piece. Still not a deal breaker, pending other things. Koshirae and kodogu can change. could I upload better pictures or some type video ? Measurements? This is very sharp as in razor sharp. THe original owner once told me that this was a big deal when he received it from the family and that the whole village came out to present it. I guess it could be Chinese since they did fight in the Korean war If so is there a way that be determined ? I do know that the family has had it over 70 years Better pictures, absolutely. Outdoors in natural lighting, close-ups at direct/straight/flat angles. My bet is definitely a genuine antique that's not been well cared for, but we need better pictures.
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Post by mbman on Dec 28, 2023 21:17:55 GMT
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Post by mbman on Dec 28, 2023 21:19:01 GMT
No sun here today will take some outside when it clears
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Post by randomnobody on Dec 28, 2023 21:38:13 GMT
Oops, now that I'm looking on a real screen at better pictures, I retract a previous statement: this sword does have handachi mounts on the saya.
I can make out what looks like good hada, and a proper hamon with hadori polish. Could use a touch-up, but the blade is serviceable as-is, save a few chips.
Ito looks just like my antique, worn, and with a bit of a sheen from absorbing skin oils over time, though it may or may not have been lacquered once.
Were it not for the o-suriage I would be concerned at the lack of funbari/ubu-ha, but this thing's been shortened well past that point.
I'm certain this is an authentic, old blade, but can't offer any more insight beyond that. If you've got a few thousand dollars to spare, I'd say send it out for a new polish, and maybe shinsa, if the polisher thinks it's worthwhile. Being mumei makes it hard to assign a value; proper appraisal could help.
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Post by mbman on Dec 29, 2023 0:19:25 GMT
OK ,I looked up most of the words in your last post and I GET a general idea of what you are talking about BUT for the most part - you are speaking Greek to me LOL. So if I were to get an appraisal/authentication ( COA) - where -who -how would I get that done I do appreciate everyone's help
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Post by randomnobody on Dec 29, 2023 1:41:01 GMT
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Post by mbman on Dec 29, 2023 16:29:46 GMT
Central KY, USA , not many in the know around here I'll do some footwork
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Post by randomnobody on Dec 29, 2023 17:27:36 GMT
You might try posting to the Nihonto Message Board, if you haven't already. Many there with much more knowledge than most of us here. www.militaria.co.za/
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Post by larason2 on Dec 29, 2023 19:27:07 GMT
It's possible I'm wrong, but I would still be cautious with this piece. If it's authentic, it's received a poor quality polish that may have ruined it. The tsuba and seppa are definitely Chinese, I think. Repolishing can cost $2000, and take up to a year or more, and even polished it may not be worth that much. Usually getting it appraised by the Japanese authorities can only be done with a proper polish. It seems like it has already been cut down from a longer blade, which reduces its value. The best step may be to have someone who regularly sells blades like these sell it through Ebay or something else, unless the owner wants to keep it. It could also be I'm right all along! The Nihonto Message Board is a good resource, but they are also sometimes wrong.
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Post by mbman on Dec 29, 2023 23:20:15 GMT
the fact that the tang does not have any identifiable marks - is that a red flag? I have been told on another forum that it looked to be "cut down" all seem in agreement there. Why would a sword be cut down? Just curious
Ill post in the Nihonto board as well - thanks
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Post by randomnobody on Dec 30, 2023 0:54:34 GMT
Both of mine are "mumei" and while it makes positive attribution...challenging, causing the sword to be less desirable than one with a confirmed signature (and especially date), it doesn't mean anything as far as authenticity, and if you can get a professional appraisal it can go a long way.
After the turmoil of the Sengoku Jidai, Tokugawa instituted laws limiting the length of swords. Lots of old tachi were thus shortened so as to not run afoul of these new laws. It's a shame, but it's history.
Others were simply broken and had new nakago cut out of what was left. A few were pole arms that were converted into swords once the battlefield was a thing of the past. I have a naginata-naoshi wakizashi that is of the latter segment.
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Post by larason2 on Dec 30, 2023 1:42:07 GMT
I'd say having no identifying markings isn't a bad thing, as randomnobody says, they are called "mumei." It's less likely to be very high quality, but it's more likely to be authentic. Again as mentioned, sometimes they cut down swords after a sword broke either on the battlefield or for some other reason as well.
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