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Post by bosscleo on Dec 2, 2023 1:20:20 GMT
posted on another site not much help except they think it is real. So here is the story. An old house out side of Artesia New Mexico, out in the desert, was to be bull dozed. Some relatives were curious and went through the old house. They found these Items tucked away in a closet. Two Japanese's ink on silk paintings, a Katana and what looks like a small version of a sword. I said they looked cool and they said here you can have them. So now what. the best I have found is that the sword (kantana) is by Fujiwara Kanefusa 23rd generation. the Blade itself is not a shinny metal but a dull gray. It is in what I think rough shape. I cleaned it the best I could without any abrasives and 95 percent alcohol. The sword has a slight bend in it and the blade edge has what I would call bite marks in it from another edged weapon (maybe??) or kids whacking away with it. While giving it a basic cleaning, I thought about what history or stories it could tell...LOL..I became sentimental. Now I am wondering if I should have the blade restored or even if it could be, who does it. I will attach pictures of the find in New Mexico. Please give opinions, they are free, Good advise tends to cost money. Here is a link to the video of the sword with a tape measure for reference.
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Post by crazyjons on Dec 2, 2023 3:03:29 GMT
What an awesome find! Did it have any fittings other than the habaki?
Jon
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Post by stevengraham on Dec 2, 2023 5:43:52 GMT
What an awesome find! Did it have any fittings other than the habaki? Jon It has a wooden saya that looks like it might be original but it is very questionable. It is badly damaged, split, small pieces of wood missing. The lacquer is all chipped. I could disassemble and reglue what is left and such. However it gives me pause cause the habaki fits the wood. Like I said I am trying to figure out what to do with it or even if it has a value in the condition it is in.
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Post by larason2 on Dec 2, 2023 13:41:47 GMT
I agree a nice find! It's a tough question. To have it properly professionally repolished would cost on the order of $2000+, and it might not be worth that when you're done. They also might not take it, they're pretty picky. Restoring the fittings and saya would be another expense on top of that with a similar number of zeros after it, and which again you might not get back. There are those like Josiah Boomershine that do cheap polishes, but I don't think they're worth the trouble (they don't reveal a lot of blade detail), and it might ruin the blade.
So my recommendation is to enjoy it as it is, or pass it on to someone else. These can't really be restored in a cost effective manner. It is a nice piece though.
I would say it certainly has value, probably worth $300-500 to the right person at least.
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Post by mrstabby on Dec 2, 2023 14:01:21 GMT
Side question, does the damage on the blade look like combat damage, something that happens from training with it or something that has happened because it was mishandled? In parts it looks like the kind of damage you get on the edge when blocking with the flat, others like the tip just look abused to me.
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Post by Steven Graham on Dec 2, 2023 17:07:33 GMT
I agree a nice find! It's a tough question. To have it properly professionally repolished would cost on the order of $2000+, and it might not be worth that when you're done. They also might not take it, they're pretty picky. Restoring the fittings and saya would be another expense on top of that with a similar number of zeros after it, and which again you might not get back. There are those like Josiah Boomershine that do cheap polishes, but I don't think they're worth the trouble (they don't reveal a lot of blade detail), and it might ruin the blade. So my recommendation is to enjoy it as it is, or pass it on to someone else. These can't really be restored in a cost effective manner. It is a nice piece though. I would say it certainly has value, probably worth $300-500 to the right person at least. I agree, it is a true japanese katana but has been really abused. I am leaning to leaving the blade edge alone and get the hilt (dont know the japanese terms so bear with me) for it an just put it up for show. I think it would be fun to restore it to that point.
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Post by Steven Graham on Dec 2, 2023 17:11:44 GMT
Side question, does the damage on the blade look like combat damage, something that happens from training with it or something that has happened because it was mishandled? In parts it looks like the kind of damage you get on the edge when blocking with the flat, others like the tip just look abused to me. It may have been used for training or combat but I suspect it was just abused. Like I have said in other post I think I will leave the blade and the edge damage alone. I will find a scabbard and hilt for it. I know those are not Javanese terms for the Katana..LOL
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Post by izzy on Dec 2, 2023 23:59:54 GMT
nihontoantiques.com/japanese-art-sword-restoration/polishing-techniques/#polishing1As you can see with a lot of work it could be restored. In the article above the professional polisher uses a very low grit natural Arato Stone ( 600 Japanese grit, different than USA grit, see link below). Since neither you or I are professionals, I would go much slower. This is heresy flat out...but If I had that sword, I would carefully remove the Habaki and get a few sythnetic versions of the abrasive stones on the link above ( in the pop out picture), and possibly a non abrasive silicone cloth (Like Hoppe's Lead and rust removal cloth) and clean it up myself with an objective on removing rust, then work on sharpening with a second Japanese water stone ( like Ice Bear, Sun Tiger / King, Yoshihiro, etc.) to see how much of the edge damage I could get out Just by sharpening with a stone one can start with 1000 grit just for the edge. Thin versions of Japanese water stones ( the cheaper ones) can be had for 30 USD or so.
I am guessing that a set 4 stones of 12,000 to 10,000 Japanese grit, one 6000 Japanese grit, one 3000-1000 Japanese grit, and a 1000 to 800 Japanese grit will get you where you need to be if you go slow and careful to remove as little metal as possible. Some of these stones can be found in combination, so one could save a bit by buying a combo stone.
My experience in Japanese water stones comes from sharpening Stainless "kosher" knives ( shechita knives) where we get nicks from time to time from hitting bone or other accidents in a high stress factory environment. In my case we would sharpen out the damage with Japanese water stones, and burnish with a natural "green" stone. Japanese water stones need to be soaked in water prior to use, and cleaned often ( some will come with a cleaning stone). I have polished the sides of one of these large "knives" ( 18" to 22") but that is as far as it goes. Either way it's not rocket science, and I have confidence that you could do a fair job.
Plenty of Chinese parts out there to mount it like tsubas, etc. Even if it's not a perfect or professional job it should leave you with a functional sword with a rich history.
Also See:
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Post by larason2 on Dec 3, 2023 18:46:30 GMT
Yes, it can be polished by an amateur. I am an amateur polisher myself. Personally I'd recommend the Namikawa Heibei kit, you really can't go wrong, and you can waste a lot of money trying to get the right stones from different sources. Trust me, that's what I did! Some forums are really unkind to amateur polishers, but I think that's despicable. If you are careful and go slow, you're unlikely to ruin it.
That being said, it takes a long time to do it right. If you have 100 hours to dedicate to trying to do well by the sword, then have at it. The hardest part to do well is how hard you push. At each stage, you need to spend a long time at the end with very gentle pressure to ensure you're not burnishing it. This touch takes a long time to develop, but if you don't do it, you won't bring out the details necessary to do right by the sword. That's why I say 100 hours. Otherwise you can just preserve the history by leaving it as is.
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Post by stevengraham on Dec 3, 2023 23:04:22 GMT
the product seems to be in Japan only. Interesting though. The blade has a slight warp to the right. That would have to be fixed before any polishing, you think.
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Post by larason2 on Dec 4, 2023 0:33:15 GMT
Yes, that's absolutely true. That can be done with sword benders, I have some I made out of Elm. At first it's a bit scary, but with practice you can reliably straighten a Japanese style sword pretty easily.
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Post by stevengraham on Dec 27, 2023 21:34:21 GMT
Yes, it can be polished by an amateur. I am an amateur polisher myself. Personally I'd recommend the Namikawa Heibei kit, you really can't go wrong, and you can waste a lot of money trying to get the right stones from different sources. Trust me, that's what I did! Some forums are really unkind to amateur polishers, but I think that's despicable. If you are careful and go slow, you're unlikely to ruin it. That being said, it takes a long time to do it right. If you have 100 hours to dedicate to trying to do well by the sword, then have at it. The hardest part to do well is how hard you push. At each stage, you need to spend a long time at the end with very gentle pressure to ensure you're not burnishing it. This touch takes a long time to develop, but if you don't do it, you won't bring out the details necessary to do right by the sword. That's why I say 100 hours. Otherwise you can just preserve the history by leaving it as is. I went ahead and did some work on the katana, reprofiled the edge, wet sanded the scratches. I think Rust looks good. LOLOL... I stopped because I am not good enough to do any better and did not want to damage it beyond repair. Attached before and after before after
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Post by noneed2hate on Dec 31, 2023 3:00:35 GMT
I'll just say part of polishing isn't simply making it look pretty, it's maintaining the original geometries of the blade as much as possible (which as a byproduct maintains the historical value of it) and is why we send these to professionally trained polishers who have the eye and feel for those sorts of things while conducting the work. Additional important point is to never clean the nakago (tang) of the rust/patination present. At most if there is active rust, you should stabilize it with some oil and gently rubbing away the active rust with a pre-1982 copper penny.
It was wise to stop where you did. If you have an opportunity to post some nice photos that would be great. Cheers.
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Post by stevengraham on Jan 1, 2024 20:55:54 GMT
I'll just say part of polishing isn't simply making it look pretty, it's maintaining the original geometries of the blade as much as possible (which as a byproduct maintains the historical value of it) and is why we send these to professionally trained polishers who have the eye and feel for those sorts of things while conducting the work. Additional important point is to never clean the nakago (tang) of the rust/patination present. At most if there is active rust, you should stabilize it with some oil and gently rubbing away the active rust with a pre-1982 copper penny. It was wise to stop where you did. If you have an opportunity to post some nice photos that would be great. Cheers. I took some close up's which i figured you wanted. Remember this is the first time I l cleaned a profiles such a large blade. It was fun and scary. photos.app.goo.gl/DdYvZYtH87fLz8Mo8
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