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Post by r4veman on Nov 6, 2023 15:37:27 GMT
Good day dear forum members. I am quite new to the topic of martial arts so I apologize in advance for stupid questions. I am from Russia and not so long ago I bought a 102 cm shirokashi bokken in a local online store. The photos show my bokken. (The tsuba was made for me by a local craftsman) Excellent quality and level of workmanship in general. Already after receiving the order in communication with the manager I found out that the bokken is Taiwanese made. At the local store they appear in limited batches, and in general this series is rare for our area. I was very surprised that the sword is not locally made, (this manufacturer makes swords of other simpler materials in Russia). I turned to the Internet with attempts to find information about bokken production in Taiwan and found only negative reviews on old forums dated 2003))) There was information that the Taiwanese shirokashi is different from the Japanese, help me to determine what kind of wood on my sword and what in general think about it. Regards, Nikita   
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Post by mrstabby on Nov 6, 2023 18:40:38 GMT
It might be oak. I am very unfamiliar with bokken, somewhat more with wood. Could you take a close up photo with good lighting (like 15 cm away straight on)?
EDIT: Pretty sure red oak
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Post by r4veman on Nov 6, 2023 19:15:25 GMT
It might be oak. I am very unfamiliar with bokken, somewhat more with wood. Could you take a close up photo with good lighting (like 15 cm away straight on)?
EDIT: Pretty sure red oak
Thanks for the answer, here are the photos. I'm quite surprised that you noted that it is red oak. I found photos with shirakashi oak and it is literally identical to the one on my sword   |
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Post by r4veman on Nov 6, 2023 19:20:06 GMT
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Post by mrstabby on Nov 6, 2023 19:58:36 GMT
You are right, sorry, typed in a hurry, meant white.
Reading up on it, white oak seems to be a pretty high quality bokken. Also looks very nicely made, to me (which does not mean much since I literally know only that bokken exist and are made from wood).
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Post by r4veman on Nov 6, 2023 20:13:49 GMT
You are right, sorry, typed in a hurry, meant white. Reading up on it, white oak seems to be a pretty high quality bokken. Also looks very nicely made, to me (which does not mean much since I literally know only that bokken exist and are made from wood). Thanks for the answer. Yes, I just decided to clarify with people who understand the topic more than me (this is generally any person). If any of the forum participants wants to note something else, I will be glad to hear your opinion |
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Post by crazyjons on Nov 7, 2023 2:28:11 GMT
This is interesting because although I know nothing about bokken, as a drummer I can say Oak sticks transfer a lot of shock to my hands, I prefer Hickory or better yet Maple because it's so soft feeling but I don't think it would make a very good sword.
All my favorite ax handles are hickory. On the plus side Oak is hard and strong and weather resistant.
Jon
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Post by mrstabby on Nov 7, 2023 7:47:19 GMT
This is interesting because although I know nothing about bokken, as a drummer I can say Oak sticks transfer a lot of shock to my hands, I prefer Hickory or better yet Maple because it's so soft feeling but I don't think it would make a very good sword. All my favorite ax handles are hickory. On the plus side Oak is hard and strong and weather resistant. Jon The japanese oak is different than european/american oak. Softer*, less shocky, more like hickory. At least that's what the internet says, but it could be true, because that was my thought at first as well. Having hit something with an oak stick it's not fun at all. Might really be a bit different.
*Edit: not softer per se, but more absorbant to impact
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Post by crazyjons on Nov 7, 2023 15:05:08 GMT
That's interesting that reminds me about the legends of the USS Constitution, that they called Old iron sides. About British cannonballs bouncing off the American Oak sides of the hull!
Maybe the wetter Coastal climate in Japan would allow the trees to grow faster so the grains not as tight?
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Post by larason2 on Nov 8, 2023 2:35:36 GMT
Traditionally, all Japanese bokken and most polearms were made from oak in Japan. They harvest it young though, so it's a lot more flexible and has a tighter grain than the red oak we tend to get here. So it gets called white oak or red oak, but it's the same thing. I have several hickory bokken and am very pleased with them. It's hard to get young oak in Canada/US, so hickory is a better substitute. Not sure what's available in Russia, but I think you got a good one.
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Post by tera on Nov 8, 2023 18:49:59 GMT
OP's bokken looks almost exactly like mine (minus bohi) which is Japanese White Oak.
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Post by r4veman on Nov 14, 2023 16:35:21 GMT
OP's bokken looks almost exactly like mine (minus bohi) which is Japanese White Oak. Thank you very much for your answer. On other forums I met people saying that I have a bokken made of white oak, but Taiwanese, they say it is different from Japanese white oak. Since I know that my bokken is from Taiwan, I decided to clarify, maybe someone knows the specifics of my tree |
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Post by r4veman on Nov 14, 2023 16:44:01 GMT
OP's bokken looks almost exactly like mine (minus bohi) which is Japanese White Oak. Thank you for the answer! We have very developed Japanese martial arts here. Steven Seagal, having received Russian citizenship, constantly participates in various events here and actively develops, although this is only a small percentage of Russian martial arts culture, and you can also treat Aikido differently as a type of martial arts, it’s just a fan fact. There are a lot of types of martial arts, different schools and, accordingly, a huge, developed production of ammunition and equipment for these martial arts. I thought that my sword was made in Russia like many others here, but it turned out that we buy them from Taiwan from white oak, so I began to be interested in the specifics of the sword |
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Post by RufusScorpius on Feb 15, 2024 21:45:36 GMT
It's fine. Red oak, white oak, Elm, it really doesn't matter as long as it's a tight grained hardwood. You don't do full contact with a bokken anyways. It's used for training in the dojo, not on the field of battle. Sometimes even the Japanese ones break, when they do, the Japanese simply get another one.
It will be fine, don't worry because it isn't magical Japanese special wood. Honestly, other countries have trees also.
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Post by larason2 on Feb 16, 2024 14:04:50 GMT
I don't totally agree, because mature oak gets a brittle open grain layer running through it, that's a physical weak spot (trust me!). I wouldn't train with a red oak bokken for this reason. Elm though would make a great bokken, but it's hard to find these days and pricey. Hence the recommendation of hickory, cheap and good!
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Post by RufusScorpius on Feb 17, 2024 15:41:37 GMT
I don't totally agree, because mature oak gets a brittle open grain layer running through it, that's a physical weak spot (trust me!). I wouldn't train with a red oak bokken for this reason. Elm though would make a great bokken, but it's hard to find these days and pricey. Hence the recommendation of hickory, cheap and good! I've used red and white oak bokkens for 30 years and never had one split. The important thing is the weight, you want a dense hardwood because it's similar in weight to a steel sword. I think people worry way too much about the wood type and not enough about how they're training with it. |
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Post by larason2 on Feb 17, 2024 17:51:29 GMT
That's fair enough, but I'd like to see your red oak bokkens! I do a lot of carving on red oak, because that's pretty cheap here. Here is a wooden model for a bronze age sword that I carved:  You see that big open grain? It's really weak. I've used off cuts to clamp things and so on, and when they break, they break right along those lines. When you're carving, it also falls apart like butter. I was DIYing a carbon fibre sail, and I was missing a piece of carbon fibre tubing, so I improvised a bit with red oak. It was working pretty well, until a strong wind grabbed the sail, and again it split along the weak grain. I'm sure you know more than me, but I was taught that when you hit another bokken, it should be a pretty strong strike! But I can envision a bokken either carefully made to avoid the weak grains, or in a piece of wood that doesn't have many weak grains (probably heart wood). If so, you're right it can be eminently suitable for bokkens. If it's a piece like I have above though, I wouldn't risk it! |
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