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Post by bwaze on Oct 20, 2023 4:10:45 GMT
Impossible.
You are asking for an exact replica of a museum sword, but for a custom, one off item. Just the time of an expert to go to a museum and take exact measurements will cost you more than an Albion Museum Line sword, and the work on a sword hasn't even started yet.
And if you're basing the sword just on the publicly available stats and photos - they are often not accurate, plain wrong, photos are often not taken directly overhead...
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Post by cptraph on Oct 20, 2023 4:25:37 GMT
Impossible. You are asking for an exact replica of a museum sword, but for a custom, one off item. Just the time of an expert to go to a museum and take exact measurements will cost you more than an Albion Museum Line sword, and the work on a sword hasn't even started yet. And if you're basing the sword just on the publicly available stats and photos - they are often not accurate, plain wrong, photos are often not taken directly overhead... Well what if the sword was distinct from the version they actually make by way of the sword being more similar to the advertised stats?
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Post by bwaze on Oct 20, 2023 6:30:40 GMT
Which stats?
The ones on Royal Armouries about the original, the one on Royal Armouries / Windlass replica that delivered items sometimes fail to meet because workers in production are actuallt aiming for diffetent stats? It's a bit if a mess. :-)
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Post by cptraph on Oct 20, 2023 7:15:25 GMT
Which stats? The ones on Royal Armouries about the original, the one on Royal Armouries / Windlass replica that delivered items sometimes fail to meet because workers in production are actuallt aiming for diffetent stats? It's a bit if a mess. :-) Okay but what about the exact stats on the website of Royal Armouries that explains the stats of what the sword is meant to have on their website? Essentially this Overall: 58" Blade: 45", double edge Guard: 11-3/8" wide Blade width at ricasso: 2" Blade is distally tapered: 11/32" thick at guard, 11/64" at tip Weight: 4 lb, 10 oz.
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Post by bwaze on Oct 20, 2023 7:38:20 GMT
But those are not the original medieval sword measutements. These are stats that were rounded in imperial measurements. And then when converted to metric, they are of course converted to the decimal point, so they look like exact stats.
For instance, sword in museum is 47 mm wide. Stats of Windlass replica state 2" - 50.8 mm! So my sword, which was 46 mm wide, failed to meet the published stats by nearly 5 mm - more than 10%! But it was nearly spot on the width if the original, and the width that workers at Windlass are trying to meet!
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Post by cptraph on Oct 20, 2023 7:59:17 GMT
But those are not the original medieval sword measutements. These are stats that were rounded in imperial measurements. And then when converted to metric, they are of course converted to the decimal point, so they look like exact stats. For instance, sword in museum is 47 mm wide. Stats of Windlass replica state 2" - 50.8 mm! So my sword, which was 46 mm wide, failed to meet the published stats by nearly 5 mm - more than 10%! But it was nearly spot on the width if the original, and the width that workers at Windlass are trying to meet! Okay but is there a company that could possibly do better than Royal Armouries and make a variant with better quality control I did see a post that spoke about the atrocious quality of the sword that was made by Dukeadam
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Post by mrstabby on Oct 20, 2023 8:39:47 GMT
There is always the possibility of a lemon, even with Albion.
BTW bwaze is the person with the lemon 15th cen two hander. It is getting exchanged. Really waiting to hear back what the second sword looks like.
LK Chen makes good repros in my opinion, they are getting into the european swords now. They are pretty good at the dimensions. The Euros are all some sort of collab though, with someone respectable from the sword community with access to the original giving out the measurements.
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Post by bwaze on Oct 20, 2023 9:17:05 GMT
I remember when someone ordered a "Ljubljana" sword from Czech swordmaker Vladimir Cervenka - copy of the same N4516 from National Museum of Slovenia the Albion Ljubljana Museum Line sword reproduces. He otherwise makes very nice swords, but this was a bit too complicated task (or the budget was set too low), and I think nobody really liked his attempt. Very undefined shapes, wobbly fullers and midridge... But it was cheaper than Albion. :-)
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Post by cptraph on Oct 20, 2023 9:23:20 GMT
I remember when someone ordered a "Ljubljana" sword from Czech swordmaker Vladimir Cervenka - copy of the same N4516 from National Museum of Slovenia the Albion Ljubljana Museum Line sword reproduces. He otherwise makes very nice swords, but this was a bit too complicated task (or the budget was set too low), and I think nobody really liked his attempt. Very undefined shapes, wobbly fullers and midridge... But it was cheaper than Albion. :-)
Well if budget wasn't a problem for me and if I did find a company that was capable of making my desired sword at the desired quality then I'd like to ask would the sword function better if the width was either 2 inches or 45mm I'm not concerned about historical accuracy I'm concerned purely about functionality
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Post by bwaze on Oct 20, 2023 9:25:38 GMT
Then we all know it would function best if it would be shaped like a katana.
;-)
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Post by cptraph on Oct 20, 2023 9:31:33 GMT
Then we all know it would function best if it would be shaped like a katana. ;-) Are you joking or are you a biased Katana fan?
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Post by mrstabby on Oct 20, 2023 9:35:38 GMT
He is joking, more or less. Though I think Daos are better (I declare war ) Functionality is subjective, what do you want? Want something light and nimble? Something stabby? Something slashy? Historically accurate? The crux of the thing is what you intend to do with it.
Historical examples are well suited for combat in that time period but might not feel or perform for you the way you expect
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Post by cptraph on Oct 20, 2023 9:48:55 GMT
He is joking, more or less. Functionality is subjective, what do you want? Want something light and nimble? Something stabby? Something slashy? Historically accurate? The crux of the thing is what you intend to do with it.
Historical examples are well suited for combat in that time period but might not feel or perform for you the way you expect
Well I want a sword that is good at both cutting and stabbing, has no fullers, I'm not too concerned about historical accuracy and something that is still similar to the Royal Armouries 15th Century Two Handed Sword but is at a higher quality
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Post by eastman on Oct 20, 2023 14:55:15 GMT
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Post by alientude on Oct 20, 2023 21:11:22 GMT
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Post by cptraph on Oct 20, 2023 21:30:17 GMT
The problem with that one is that it happens to be significantly heavier and I am concerned about the durability due to it being a lot less thick and also I'm kind of wondering if I can get the custom sword maker to make the blade more rigid which is a criticism I've heard with the Royal Armouries sword and I've heard from Arms And Armor that their sword might not be the most rigid
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Post by mrstabby on Oct 21, 2023 7:51:05 GMT
The problem with that one is that it happens to be significantly heavier and I am concerned about the durability due to it being a lot less thick and also I'm kind of wondering if I can get the custom sword maker to make the blade more rigid which is a criticism I've heard with the Royal Armouries sword and I've heard from Arms And Armor that their sword might not be the most rigid The weight is what happens when you widen the blade by 15mm/0,5". Going from pics alone the A&A will be a better cutter. Durability wise, what do you intend to cut? The A&A is 6150, the Royal Armories 1080, so I would not be worried about the thinner taper because the 6150 is much more resilient. As long as you don't cut stuff that isn't recommended to be cut (like thick, dried out branches) you should be fine either way. You can't have something very rigid that cuts very well and is light that also does not have fullers. It's always a compromise. Judging from videos, the A&A does sag under it's own weight a bit, but not excessively so.
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Post by cptraph on Oct 21, 2023 8:42:35 GMT
The problem with that one is that it happens to be significantly heavier and I am concerned about the durability due to it being a lot less thick and also I'm kind of wondering if I can get the custom sword maker to make the blade more rigid which is a criticism I've heard with the Royal Armouries sword and I've heard from Arms And Armor that their sword might not be the most rigid The weight is what happens when you widen the blade by 15mm/0,5". Going from pics alone the A&A will be a better cutter. Durability wise, what do you intend to cut? The A&A is 6150, the Royal Armories 1080, so I would not be worried about the thinner taper because the 6150 is much more resilient. As long as you don't cut stuff that isn't recommended to be cut (like thick, dried out branches) you should be fine either way. You can't have something very rigid that cuts very well and is light that also does not have fullers. It's always a compromise. Judging from videos, the A&A does sag under it's own weight a bit, but not excessively so.
Well maybe I could get a custom sword maker to make my sword with 6150 steel as a possibility
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Post by cptraph on Oct 21, 2023 8:48:28 GMT
The weight is what happens when you widen the blade by 15mm/0,5". Going from pics alone the A&A will be a better cutter. Durability wise, what do you intend to cut? The A&A is 6150, the Royal Armories 1080, so I would not be worried about the thinner taper because the 6150 is much more resilient. As long as you don't cut stuff that isn't recommended to be cut (like thick, dried out branches) you should be fine either way. You can't have something very rigid that cuts very well and is light that also does not have fullers. It's always a compromise. Judging from videos, the A&A does sag under it's own weight a bit, but not excessively so.
Well maybe I could get a custom sword maker to make my sword with 6150 steel as a possibility and my desired sword is meant to be made for a balance between cutting and thrusting
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Post by mrstabby on Oct 21, 2023 9:05:20 GMT
The problem is even a custom smith can't give you what you want without you knowing the exact measurements you want bveforehand.You can't just say "I want a balanced sword" because it means different things to different people. At that size it's especially difficult because small changes have big effects (like the width change for the A&A). Also, the spring steel might be less stiff than the 1080, so another compromise you need to consider.
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