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Post by mikesd on Oct 19, 2023 1:52:53 GMT
I want a real Samurai Sword. When I say "real", I do not nean one that is modern made, using same methods, that is carbon steel.regardless of the quality.
I mean one that was created during Samurai Era, and some possibility it could have been carried by a Sanurai.
Yeah, I know expensive. And it has to have documentation that can be trusted and verified.
I'm not looking for an historically important piece. Those would ve cost prohibitive, Just one that is authentically old, and of that era.
I'm going to be in Japan next Spring. My better half is Japanese (56 years married) and we are visiting family. I plan to try and visit some sword shops.
But, I suspect there are more such swords in the U.S. than in Japan. I just don't know which would be a better place to shop.
My requirements are easy. * pre 1850 (older better for my budget) * must have verifiable documentation * will not over pay (if I can get apprasial) * no fatal flaws * known swordsmith, better if original owner is known, but not a deal breaker if owner not known)
I understand about getting swords out of Japan. I know one needs to have them inspected and permitted for cultural importance. I don't expect anything I could afford would fall in that category.
Any suggestions on how I should go about this? Japan or U.S..
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Post by larason2 on Oct 19, 2023 2:53:28 GMT
What is your budget? There's a lot of hoops to jump through in Japan, then there's transporting it here, which is also not always easy. Why don't you just buy one from a US dealer? There's a couple respected dealers that associate with the Nihonto message board. I would contact one of them. Of course, this depends on your budget. If you don't have much budget, it may make it impossible for you to buy what you're looking for. You can usually buy a gimei or mumei piece that is very nice and dependably Japanese for less money than you can buy a papered sword from a known smith. Why do you need a paper that says it is authentic? More important in my opinion is that you research your subject thoroughly. That way you will know an authentic piece when you see it, and otherwise you'll be taken by one of the many scams that are always current.
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Post by mikesd on Oct 19, 2023 3:22:51 GMT
What is your budget? There's a lot of hoops to jump through in Japan, then there's transporting it here, which is also not always easy. Why don't you just buy one from a US dealer? There's a couple respected dealers that associate with the Nihonto message board. I would contact one of them. Of course, this depends on your budget. If you don't have much budget, it may make it impossible for you to buy what you're looking for. You can usually buy a gimei or mumei piece that is very nice and dependably Japanese for less money than you can buy a papered sword from a known smith. Why do you need a paper that says it is authentic? More important in my opinion is that you research your subject thoroughly. That way you will know an authentic piece when you see it, and otherwise you'll be taken by one of the many scams that are always current. Im not looking for dependable. I'm looking for authentic. I doubt I'd ever try to use one to cut paper much less bamboo. My budget is flexible. I'd say up to $10k for a sword that just fits my reqts. But could go $20k+ for a better one. I have seen a few sites that supposedly sell them, for my budget. Technically, it doesn't have to be papered, but it must be authentic to the period. My problem is I'm already older than dirt and don't have years to study the subject. But I'm hopeful I'll learn enough. I have contacted a seller in Japan already but they only sell online. If I can't see a sword in person before I buy it, I will just pass it by.
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RE:Wrap Studio
Manufacturer/Vendor
A wise man learns from his mistakes, a wiser man learns from the mistakes of others.
Posts: 92
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Post by RE:Wrap Studio on Oct 19, 2023 4:32:40 GMT
I would lookup Ray Singer (swordsofjapan.com) he is an excellent and VERY reputable and knowledgeable dealer from what I have been told. I have a friend who has bought thousands of dollars worth of nihonto from him. (Livin the dream man)
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Post by vidar on Oct 19, 2023 8:07:23 GMT
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Post by mikesd on Oct 19, 2023 8:29:42 GMT
Thanks, I will check it out. Can NBTHK be faked? I know anything can be faked, but do sellers have a way to verify. Is there any way to check that it hasnt been faked? I would assume reputable sellers can tell if the sword is legit and matches the story and papers. One other thing. It's my understanding that original documents are retained in Japan and only copies can leave. That would seem to be a way to verify. Can the NBTHK group verify?
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Post by wildv on Oct 19, 2023 10:14:30 GMT
I want a real Samurai Sword. When I say "real", I do not nean one that is modern made, using same methods, that is carbon steel.regardless of the quality. I mean one that was created during Samurai Era, and some possibility it could have been carried by a Sanurai. Yeah, I know expensive. And it has to have documentation that can be trusted and verified. I'm not looking for an historically important piece. Those would ve cost prohibitive, Just one that is authentically old, and of that era. I'm going to be in Japan next Spring. My better half is Japanese (56 years married) and we are visiting family. I plan to try and visit some sword shops. But, I suspect there are more such swords in the U.S. than in Japan. I just don't know which would be a better place to shop. My requirements are easy. * pre 1850 (older better for my budget) * must have verifiable documentation * will not over pay (if I can get apprasial) * no fatal flaws * known swordsmith, better if original owner is known, but not a deal breaker if owner not known) I understand about getting swords out of Japan. I know one needs to have them inspected and permitted for cultural importance. I don't expect anything I could afford would fall in that category. Any suggestions on how I should go about this? Japan or U.S.. I've purchased from this shop a few times in the past. They are always very helpful and courteous with all my questions and the whole experience, especially for English speakers. www.samurai-nippon.net/SHOP/109527/list.html
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Post by Drunk Merchant on Oct 19, 2023 11:58:33 GMT
Mark from NMB is a full fledged dealer but his prices are far lower than most. He sold a Mihara (waki with full papers for 1000$ www.militaria.co.za/nmb/topic/35189-koto-mihara-wakizashi-nbthk-hozon-for-sale/ And I snagged a handsome but old polish shinshinto for 1400$. The kinda stuff I like with collecting. Also he’s always polite and easy to get along with. You don’t need a daimiyo sword for your first sword. Just a couple of good swords you can use to learn what all the features the books talk about say. Went ahead and bought 17 nihonto and sold or traded 10 and kept the ones with rustic Kyushu style traditions (Hizen). When I start to buy again I might try for treasures but samurai swords are plenty good for foundation. As a side if your attitude is older is better you’ll probably find muromachi a cheap starting point. Easy to get papered 500 year old swords.
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Post by Jussi Ekholm on Oct 19, 2023 18:56:49 GMT
I think your wish is perfectly doable there are several thousands of authenticated antique Japanese swords listed for sale at any given moment. I think all of the criteria (excluding the original owner proof) will be perfectly doable in your price range.
As you want to see items in person before purchase, where in the US are you located and where in Japan you will be visiting?
I think for 99,9% of modern NBTHK papers there would be no need for authencity check. However in such case that you want to verify the item you can contact NBTHK and they will check the item in their database. The original NBTHK certificate leaves Japan and comes with the sword, however the original torokusho (license for the sword) stays in Japan when the item is unregistered for international transportation.
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Post by mikesd on Oct 19, 2023 20:01:46 GMT
I think your wish is perfectly doable there are several thousands of authenticated antique Japanese swords listed for sale at any given moment. I think all of the criteria (excluding the original owner proof) will be perfectly doable in your price range.
As you want to see items in person before purchase, where in the US are you located and where in Japan you will be visiting?
I think for 99,9% of modern NBTHK papers there would be no need for authencity check. However in such case that you want to verify the item you can contact NBTHK and they will check the item in their database. The original NBTHK certificate leaves Japan and comes with the sword, however the original torokusho (license for the sword) stays in Japan when the item is unregistered for international transportation.
I live in WA, but I can go about any place in the U.S., to see something in person. I once drove from WA to AR to go to a reunion. Left Thur and was back home on Tue. 5200 miles in 5ish days. While in Japan, I will likely fly to Tokyo and stay there for a couple of days (might fly to Osaka, if they still have flights). But I will be travelig to Yamaguchi-ken, for most of the trip. My wife's family lives in he mountains near the Sugano Dam, on the Nishiki River. Mike
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Post by larason2 on Oct 19, 2023 23:17:37 GMT
I agree, your requirements are definitely achievable with your budget. If you buy from a reputable dealer, or know what you are buying, you don't need to see it in hand, but I get it if it is part of the experience for you. I would just buy one in the US, fly to where the dealer is located to see it. That saves you a lot of export trouble. NBTHK certificates are quite trustworthy, and hard to forge, so if you get a sword with one of these from a reputable dealer, you can be reasonably assured the maker is who it says it is.
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Post by mikesd on Oct 20, 2023 1:42:01 GMT
All good to know. I think I will try to find one from a U.S. dealer first. Something with NBTHK, if possible.
Appreciate all the good advice.
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Post by Jussi Ekholm on Oct 22, 2023 10:38:46 GMT
Here are two sword societies in the US that you could contact JSSUS - www.jssus.org/NCJSC - www.ncjsc.org/Then here are some good US dealers that I feel very comfortable with. They are not the cheapest ones but you will get good items. Swords of Japan - Ray Singer - Miami, Florida: swordsofjapan.com/Tetsugendo - Mike Yamasaki - California (I dont know exact location): tetsugendo.com/ (lot more active on Facebook I believe) Nihonto Com - Fred Weissberg - I think California (I dont know exact location): nihonto.com/Yakiba - Ed Marshall - Location??: yakiba.com (shamed to say I cant remember the exact location of Ed even though I am in multiple groups and have bought from him) Nihonto US - Andy Quirt - Edina, Minnesota : www.nihonto.us/Nihonto Craft - Danny Massey - Location??: www.nihontocraft.comSamuraiSword - Tim Pepin - La Crosse, Wisconsin: www.samuraisword.com
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Post by Drunk Merchant on Oct 25, 2023 0:29:56 GMT
Respectfully, was this claim ever refuted? If the papers were in fact not fabricated you should post it and disprove slander. If they were, that was a mistake. A lot of people here secretly crosspost in NMB and pretty much everyone there remembers the concealed hagire incident. I don’t know why a pillar of the community would do that to their reputation over chump change.
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