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Post by gauntlet6 on Oct 18, 2023 1:04:43 GMT
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Post by bas on Oct 18, 2023 8:42:16 GMT
It’s French made in the Klingenthal state armoury, circa 1793-1800, what does the inscription on the spine say?
The O over M stamp is for inspector Jean-Jacques Mouton while the LW is for Benjamin Levavasseur.
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Post by gauntlet6 on Oct 18, 2023 17:49:40 GMT
It’s French made in the Klingenthal state armoury, circa 1793-1800, what does the inscription on the spine say? The O over M stamp is for inspector Jean-Jacques Mouton while the LW is for Benjamin Levavasseur. Thanks for the info and the prompt to look at the spine. Here are a few pictures of the inscription. Any info would be appreciated. Is it rare or just another deck armament?
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Post by mrstabby on Oct 18, 2023 18:26:08 GMT
I think it's a french inscription, maybe a dedication, but I can't make it out. You could try the following: Put a piece of paper over the spine and run a pencil (the softer the better) very softly over it to make an impression, might be more readable. You could also try using a marker pen to make it more readable, but I wouldn't recommend it. If you can make out the letters, write it out in a post.
EDIT: It should be "Manufacture Du Klingenthal Coulawn Frers entrep", but not 100% sure if that's really waht it says
Something along the lines "made in Klingenthal by Coulawn brothers"
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Post by madirish on Oct 18, 2023 21:37:46 GMT
Definitely what it looks like, Stabby....but "Coulaux freres"
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Post by bas on Oct 18, 2023 21:59:44 GMT
The inscription looks legit; the Coulaux brothers were the overall supervisors for the "Klingenthal complex" and often had blades made for commercial sale (vs military contract) marked like this. There were a lot of changes in France at this time, so standards were a bit flexible. This sword could have been for a French naval contract or for one of the 'civilian' Privateers who were also active.
It's a great sword, that I suspect is quite rare; it will have value with its ties to the Napoleonic wars, unfortunately, I don't collect naval swords, so I can't give you an estimate, but as a rule of thumb naval gear tends to command higher prices than the regular land stuff.
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Post by gauntlet6 on Oct 18, 2023 22:43:37 GMT
I think it's a french inscription, maybe a dedication, but I can't make it out. You could try the following: Put a piece of paper over the spine and run a pencil (the softer the better) very softly over it to make an impression, might be more readable. You could also try using a marker pen to make it more readable, but I wouldn't recommend it. If you can make out the letters, write it out in a post.
EDIT: It should be "Manufacture Du Klingenthal Coulawn Frers entrep", but not 100% sure if that's really waht it says
Something along the lines "made in Klingenthal by Coulawn brothers"
The is the best I can get. Used a dry erase marker to blacken it and took pictures through a magnifying glass. I don't speak French but it has a word that looks like Klingenthal.
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Post by madirish on Oct 18, 2023 23:31:57 GMT
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Post by maxdchouinard on Oct 20, 2023 19:09:43 GMT
This is indeed an An IX model cutlass, which corresponds to parts of the years 1800-1801. As usual, the model's denomination is not indicative of a production start, as the An IX is apparently produced starting in 1802. The two poincons go into 1802. The table on the Klingenthal website is confusing because of that illustration they slapped in the middle, but the LW poincon extends past it into 1802, which fits with the model's introduction.
That marking was used in Klingenthal when the Coulaux took over as entrepreneurs. It is not indicative- as is usually the case with Chatellerault- of an entrepreneur production for their private business. The presence of the Levavasseur's poincon, which shows up on pretty much all An IXs, is a sure indicator of this being a state ordered production. Levavasseur was an artillery commander and factory inspector, and as such was forbidden from working on the private production of an entrepreneur.
It's a very rare sword. Pre 1833 French cutlasses are already rare, but this model even more so, as it was replaced in a very short time by the An X which has a slimmer- but longer- blade of 75cm.
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Post by gauntlet6 on Oct 20, 2023 20:31:00 GMT
This is indeed an An IX model cutlass, which corresponds to parts of the years 1800-1801. As usual, the model's denomination is not indicative of a production start, as the An IX is apparently produced starting in 1802. The two poincons go into 1802. The table on the Klingenthal website is confusing because of that illustration they slapped in the middle, but the LW poincon extends past it into 1802, which fits with the model's introduction. That marking was used in Klingenthal when the Coulaux took over as entrepreneurs. It is not indicative- as is usually the case with Chatellerault- of an entrepreneur production for their private business. The presence of the Levavasseur's poincon, which shows up on pretty much all An IXs, is a sure indicator of this being a state ordered production. Levavasseur was an artillery commander and factory inspector, and as such was forbidden from working on the private production of an entrepreneur. It's a very rare sword. Pre 1833 French cutlasses are already rare, but this model even more so, as it was replaced in a very short time by the An X which has a slimmer- but longer- blade of 75cm. Thank you for all of this information. It provides some great insight into a nice gift from my uncle. I wish I knew the backstory on how/where he got it. We have no French ancestors so not sure if it is really a family heirloom to pass on with no story to tell. Would this be something that a specific museum would be interested in?
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Post by maxdchouinard on Oct 21, 2023 0:01:16 GMT
My pleasure! It is rare, but most museums that cater to that period and subject would probably have a few examples already. Without a story that goes along with it, it's not as relevant to a museum mission. Some smaller ones, with less specific acquisition policies may have interest though.
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Post by treeslicer on Oct 21, 2023 2:14:32 GMT
This is indeed an An IX model cutlass, which corresponds to parts of the years 1800-1801. As usual, the model's denomination is not indicative of a production start, as the An IX is apparently produced starting in 1802. The two poincons go into 1802. The table on the Klingenthal website is confusing because of that illustration they slapped in the middle, but the LW poincon extends past it into 1802, which fits with the model's introduction. That marking was used in Klingenthal when the Coulaux took over as entrepreneurs. It is not indicative- as is usually the case with Chatellerault- of an entrepreneur production for their private business. The presence of the Levavasseur's poincon, which shows up on pretty much all An IXs, is a sure indicator of this being a state ordered production. Levavasseur was an artillery commander and factory inspector, and as such was forbidden from working on the private production of an entrepreneur. It's a very rare sword. Pre 1833 French cutlasses are already rare, but this model even more so, as it was replaced in a very short time by the An X which has a slimmer- but longer- blade of 75cm. Thank you for all of this information. It provides some great insight into a nice gift from my uncle. I wish I knew the backstory on how/where he got it. We have no French ancestors so not sure if it is really a family heirloom to pass on with no story to tell. Would this be something that a specific museum would be interested in? IMHO, based on experience, many (if not most) museums have tons of items people donated, rusting and rotting away in their back rooms, awaiting scholars who consult them rarely if at all, poorly curated, and which are never displayed to the public. You're better off cutting targets in your back yard with it, keeping it oiled, and passing it along to your kids.
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Post by gauntlet6 on Oct 21, 2023 2:45:59 GMT
Thank you for all of this information. It provides some great insight into a nice gift from my uncle. I wish I knew the backstory on how/where he got it. We have no French ancestors so not sure if it is really a family heirloom to pass on with no story to tell. Would this be something that a specific museum would be interested in? IMHO, based on experience, many (if not most) museums have tons of items people donated, rusting and rotting away in their back rooms, awaiting scholars who consult them rarely if at all, poorly curated, and which are never displayed to the public. You're better off cutting targets in your back yard with it, keeping it oiled, and passing it along to your kids. That’s exactly what I plan on doing for now. Thank you all for the advice. If it is rare and collectible but has no real family provenance that I know of, I will probably eventually sell it to someone who will appreciate it. For now, it is with the other swords I own and has now become the oldest in the small collection.
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