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Post by pax on Oct 9, 2023 17:57:18 GMT
Another attempt to draw what's under the leather (by touch). Attachments:
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Post by Sir Thorfinn on Oct 9, 2023 20:07:08 GMT
I still think, after clarification, this is a cobbled together garage find. Based on the drawing you did, you think the blade goes thru the tang, rounded and narrowed a bit so its not wider than you can grip, and the tang and welded on cross guard extensions sandwich the tang. This would leave weird gaps and grip hotspots that would require some form of filler to make the grip the rough oval as shown. While the design is ingenious, it has so many problems.
Saying you have 'vast experience' is great. So show us other documented examples of this construction method. There is a good reason nothing is made this way, but I am open to being educated. So educate me.
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Post by madirish on Oct 9, 2023 22:15:49 GMT
If you took the leather off and got a good look at what is going on underneath, it would be interesting. Reapplying leather to a level of quality equal to what is on it could be easily done...so you are not "damaging" anything by doing it. This construction makes no sense....does, indeed, look like a garage project. Beauty certainly is in the eye of the beholder.
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Post by larason2 on Oct 10, 2023 1:14:10 GMT
The wear on the actual blade looks old to me, but certainly not medieval! That kind of worn metal look seems to me to be late 1800's at the earliest. I also agree the tip probably broke and was reground. With closer examination, the guard looks heavily reshaped, but it was once pretty rusted. The pommel is quite new, and I agree it looks like the leather thing was just wrapped around the tang, and the pommel crudely welded on. It looks uncomfortable to use. So again my vote is a victorian replica that broke and was subsequently poorly modified.
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Post by Sir Thorfinn on Oct 10, 2023 15:35:55 GMT
One more thing that does not fit. Assuming the blade broke and the tip was reshaped, why would the tang be as wide as it is, and long? This does not 'feel right', as the maker marks are at the base of the blade. So why would the tang be so robust? Only reason would be added metal welded on as a tang. The only swords I know of off the top of my head that would have a full tang are Messers. But I could be wrong.
Something about the tang and the maker marks feels off.
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Post by mrstabby on Oct 10, 2023 16:56:06 GMT
I'd be very interested if it is hardened.
What urks me is: And there is a "Ricasso" on only one side but not the other. If you are putting in the work of reshaping 3 sides, why not do the 4th?
Sir Thorfinn, what do you mean about the mark (I get what you mean about the tang, flat stock maybe)? Like too generic, just using a "C" stamp die?
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Post by larason2 on Oct 10, 2023 19:15:57 GMT
It may be some sort of suriage, and the blade was cut down from both ends, the bottom part of the blade ground thinner to make the new tang. That would explain why the tang is thicker than usual, at least at the top. By the time it gets to the piece that's welded on, it looks usual size.
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rschuch
Member
Sharp blades are good to have, if Shire-folk go walking, east, south, far away into dark and danger.
Posts: 811
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Post by rschuch on Oct 11, 2023 2:58:03 GMT
Does anyone else see the tip of this as maybe being a salvaged broken sword with a reground tip?
Yeah, I thought that as well, the fuller seems uneven and I can't really tell if it was reshaped or produced that way. You could maybe tell from a good sideways picture.
The leather is very shotty workmanship. The edges aren't sealed or burnished. Also the stitch looks like it was done very quickly and rough, with that thread I can't imagine it feeling nice to hold. And you are right, the edges and stitch holes look pretty new (not older than a few years, decades max). If the leather isn't hard and feels like it would crack it for sure is less than 100 years old (from looks I'd say ~50 years)
EDIT: weird, the leathers pommel side edge looks "newer" than the others or the stitching.
Pommel also looks crooked. I hadn't figured out what I saw in it, but yeah, drawer knob. Not that it couldn't have been made by someone.
I do have a question here, how often did the blade go wholly through the guard on historical pieces? I have never seen this before.
I agree, absolutely a drawer knob. If you can buy your pommel at Home Depot, it's probably not a good sign. I have a few friends with forge access and too much free time and this looks like something they'd come up with... a Frankenstein dagger. The age doesn't really matter... it doesn't appear to have been done by an actual weaponsmith, just a hobbyist. If you love it, hey, beauty's in the eye of the beer holder. Enjoy!
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pgandy
Moderator
Senior Forumite
Posts: 10,296
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Post by pgandy on Oct 11, 2023 8:05:43 GMT
Does anyone else see the tip of this as maybe being a salvaged broken sword with a reground tip?
Yeah, I thought that as well, the fuller seems uneven and I can't really tell if it was reshaped or produced that way. You could maybe tell from a good sideways picture.
The leather is very shotty workmanship. The edges aren't sealed or burnished. Also the stitch looks like it was done very quickly and rough, with that thread I can't imagine it feeling nice to hold. And you are right, the edges and stitch holes look pretty new (not older than a few years, decades max). If the leather isn't hard and feels like it would crack it for sure is less than 100 years old (from looks I'd say ~50 years)
EDIT: weird, the leathers pommel side edge looks "newer" than the others or the stitching.
Pommel also looks crooked. I hadn't figured out what I saw in it, but yeah, drawer knob. Not that it couldn't have been made by someone.
I do have a question here, how often did the blade go wholly through the guard on historical pieces? I have never seen this before.
Count me in.
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Post by Sir Thorfinn on Oct 11, 2023 14:22:16 GMT
Sir Thorfinn, what do you mean about the mark (I get what you mean about the tang, flat stock maybe)? Like too generic, just using a "C" stamp die? Consider, you have a sword with a classic tang. (either stick or regular) The stamp is about 3" from the cross guard. While fighting the Kurgan/Voltan/Generic Baddie, the blade breaks in half, and you die.... It gets picked up by some kid who makes "THE DAGGER" from it. He wonders how to keep the blade and crossguard oriented the same, but the tang either broke or was broken off and repaired with a wider larger piece of steel. I'm not even going to touch the designers logic in how the pommel is held. I'd be shocked if it were threaded on and 'pinched'. The blade may be a real antique, but the rest???
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