|
Post by mrstabby on Aug 29, 2023 9:17:34 GMT
I don't want to discuss super steels or some smith who could produce functional stainless swords, I just want to know what you people think about the blades you get from mass producing factories.
I have been looking at machetes for garden work, and 90% are stainless, but I am apprehensive about blades longer than 30cm/12" in stainless (also looking at the reviews on every stainless machete you can see many people saying it broke violently). I have the same problem with the Windlass Cobra Steel series. They are just a bit too long for me to trust the stainless will tolerate harder hits or other abuse well.
So, what is your limit in size you still trust on a chopper? Does it depend on the maker? The steel? Or do you not trust stainless to take any impact independant of length? Just interested.
|
|
|
Post by larason2 on Aug 29, 2023 10:34:08 GMT
I think the alloying elements in stainless make it brittle in the case of an impact, like a sword strike. I wouldn't trust my long kitchen knives to cut like a sword either! It's a case of best material for the job. I don't think a machete made of stainless is trustworthy for the intended application. That's why they don't make axes or garden tools out of stainless!
|
|
|
Post by tomtx on Aug 29, 2023 11:11:15 GMT
I would (and do) look at the Central / South American makers for machetes (like Tramontina and Condor).... They really use machetes there, and know how to make them. They don't use stainless steel. I use mine for brush etc and trust them for hard use. I have noticed that the steel in my tramontina machete is not very hard, because the edge deforms fairly easily against harder objects. But I have read that they prefer this because it is easy to sharpen / work on in the field.
|
|
|
Post by RufusScorpius on Aug 29, 2023 11:54:07 GMT
8". For a knife. I trust zero stainless sword blades. Knife blades, however, can be very nice in stainless steel.
|
|
|
Post by mrstabby on Aug 29, 2023 15:39:09 GMT
I think the alloying elements in stainless make it brittle in the case of an impact, like a sword strike. I wouldn't trust my long kitchen knives to cut like a sword either! It's a case of best material for the job. I don't think a machete made of stainless is trustworthy for the intended application. That's why they don't make axes or garden tools out of stainless! Yeah, of course a kitchen knife isn't made as a chopper, but a carbon steel chefs knife won't survive either. On the other hand a meat cleaver made from stainless steel is still a vaiable cleaver. Also there are many axes and garden tools made from stainless. Especially on an axe with an obtuse edge it won't matter much anyways.
RufusScorpius 8"
Have you had failures above or do you just not trust it?
I have seen knives been mistreated something fierce without breaking. I myself prefer my EDC and woodwork knives in stainless. There are a few longer hunting knives in my collection, but something longer than 30cm/12" feels too inflexible to me. I have no reason to make the destinction, never broke a knife, no idea why I feel safe using a 25cm/10" blade but not a 30cm/12" one.
|
|
pgandy
Moderator
Senior Forumite
Posts: 10,296
|
Post by pgandy on Aug 29, 2023 17:33:30 GMT
I’m not a fan of ss. Having said that I’m aware that not all ss blades are the same and then there is the configuration to consider. Actually, I think it was Buck that left a sour taste in my mouth. I purchased two over time and while ridiculously sharp, something that amazed me, both chipped. As to your OP, I wouldn’t go over 17” and preferably shorter especially on a machete. You should have no problem with 12”, but… I have one 17” sword blade, and not by choice, that I’ve had for over a decade with no problems. It's a sword cane made for me in Africa. It’s too narrow and light for cutting but has held up to thrusts and I will admit that I haven’t heavily used the blade as such. As for a ss machete; I’ve only had experience with one. It was brought to me by a friend of a friend for sharpening. It was only later that I figured out what he had. At the time I knew that it didn’t feel right and I had difficulty sharpening, ending up with an unlikeable edge. That was a horrible thing. However, I must point out that I’m sure not all ss are the same and ss machetes should not be judged on that one sample. I would highly suggest following tomtx’s suggestion of buying a machete made in Latin America. Tramontina has a good reputation and following. Condor is overbuilt and is best with North American hard woods. In mho it’s too thick and seems to be made with North Americans in mind. You are far more likely to find one with a distal taper in one made in Latin America, however that’s not a guarantee. Many are made in Colombia and a reputable name is Corneta. Mine are mostly by Bellota. There are many other brands that skip me at the moment. Here's a video by Gabe Humphries who is about the only American that I respect when it comes to machetes. He has many reviews with different machetes and I suggest checking more of his out. Compare the difference in machetes and skill with banana trees. In Gabe’s video it’s at mark 8:16. The second video is by a Mexican, name unknown, who grows bananas as a living and has modified his machete accordingly. He will show the proper way to dig although I’ll point out that I was taught to use two hands, the off one supporting the blade at about its midpoint. If you don’t understand the language, just watch. He’s poetry in motion.
|
|
|
Post by mrstabby on Aug 29, 2023 18:10:31 GMT
It's not specifically about machetes, it just jumped out on me how many are stainless and 40cm/16" and longer.
As for Tramontina, I plan to make a thread in the future when everything is here, but I am not a fan so far. The steel is good, but of 8 (different shapes and lengths) I got, 6 were bent with the tip 3-4cm off center. It can be straightened, but this means QC is lacking in my eyes or they just don't care to straighten the blades after stamping out the blanks. Also I got sent the same machete twice that I returned because it was bent and twisted badly. Yes they are cheap, but I don't want to have to straigten every blade I get from them. Unfortunately these are the only ones I could find except the Cold Steel machetes. (OK, not 100% accurate, I found some from a company I have had very bad experiences with (Silverline), they make the cheapest, worst tools imaginable.)
|
|
|
Post by RufusScorpius on Aug 29, 2023 18:45:21 GMT
Yes, I have seen far too many failures of SS in longer blades. SS works great for knives because the relative thickness compared to the length plays in its favor as harmonics don't enter into the equation (a knife blade is highly unlikely to whip or oscillate during normal usage like a sword does). I've had many great SS knives, my Mora Garberg being among my favorites.
But for swords, anything over say 12" I would be extremely dubious of it and give it a hard "no" when offered. As mentioned previously, they have a nasty tendency to shatter. SS is good for things that don't need much flexibility, unlike swords.
I would take a poor 1045 sword over a good SS any day, all things otherwise being equal.
|
|
|
Post by demonskull on Aug 29, 2023 19:28:49 GMT
8-10" for a heavy knife- 1/4" stock
|
|
pgandy
Moderator
Senior Forumite
Posts: 10,296
|
Post by pgandy on Aug 29, 2023 19:34:40 GMT
I’d rather have a 1045 blade than ss also. mrstabby Is it possible that the company you’ve bought the Tramontinas from is selling seconds, just forgetting to mention that in their ads? I’ve never heard of that percentage being bad.
|
|
|
Post by mrstabby on Aug 29, 2023 20:02:29 GMT
RufusScorpius: Yeah, the thickness-to-length was my guess why shorter stainless blades work. Unfortunately if you look for cheap carbon steel knives for some reason around my area, you find nothing, everything is stainless now. 30 years ago it was the cheapest knives you could get were carbon, now they sell for a premium.
pgandy: I got them from Tramontina.de (some from them directly, some from them via their amazon shop). Since they just sent me my own return back a second time, I am guessing they just don't care.
It is reassuring to hear that I am apprehensive about this for a reason. It just seems the stainless blades get longer and longer without being able to function. Even the gun stores, that sell hunting equipment only stock stainless machetes, hunting knives and bayonet repros. Now D2 is becoming especially "in", I have seen 40cm/16" blades in it, hard as glass, sold as battle ready. Nope.....
|
|
|
Post by takitam on Aug 29, 2023 22:05:02 GMT
Sorry for off-topic, but it might prove interesting for some. I'm not going to talk about stainless steel edged tools length. I don't like stainless steel knives for tough cutting jobs, not because I'm afraid they will break (I don't have enough strength for that ) but because of how the edge behaves when cutting some hard materials. Btw, this can also happen if you play with high HRC carbon ( around 62-63 and above) knives, which I also dislike. My sweet spot is 58-60hrc. I much prefer when the edge rolls instead of chipping. For science, here is one of my knives, which I took with me for a longer trip, where I walked a lot and got some occasional coconuts which I had to open with this small puukko knife. This knife has cut a lot of them and quite often I needed to cut the hard shell to get to the eye. It's quite a lot of work to peel a coconut with a small knife btw, but the result was always worth it Note that this is a knife that is very thin behind the edge, with only a slightly convexed primary bevel, not designed for such work. More for camp kitchen and occasional woodwork, like sharpening tent poles. Btw, the maker was amazing and offered to regrind and refresh the knife free of charge. Oh yeah - Bohler D2 steel, 61hrc. Attachments:
|
|
pgandy
Moderator
Senior Forumite
Posts: 10,296
|
Post by pgandy on Aug 29, 2023 23:06:58 GMT
I don’t like 58-60 HRC as it’s too difficult to sharpen in the field, finding something around 52HRC more to my liking. It was great they offered to refurbish the edge. That edge at 61 HRC would have worked you in that condition. Most of my newly made kukris are somewhere around 55-57 and too hard for my liking, but there has been no chipping nor rolling. I don’t know the hardness of those Buck knives, that was long before I was into knives and they continued to chip after restoring the edge. But again, blade configuration and type of ss has much to do with it.
|
|
|
Post by William Swiger on Aug 30, 2023 0:53:15 GMT
6 inch blades. Maybe 8 at the most. Did buy a bowie knife and it was stainless steel. Never used it. I do own a stainless steel Marto Highlander katana. Only SLO I have ever bought. Funny thing was it can sharpened......
|
|
|
Post by AndiTheBarvarian on Aug 30, 2023 3:27:39 GMT
I assume broader and/or thicker blades of stainless steel can also be a bit longer. Also blades that are not focused on an extra hard edge like high end knives. So machetes and tactical short swords might work well. I'd say I would trust in the range of the Cold Steel catalog. Badly heat treated carbon steel blades brake too.
|
|
AJGBlack
Member
"This world will stress you like Orson Wells on the radio." -RTJ
Posts: 384
Member is Online
|
Post by AJGBlack on Aug 30, 2023 12:42:06 GMT
Depends on the stainless. I've seen AEB-L machetes at around 20 inches. Longer stainless machetes aren't uncommon. Idk if I would trust one in a sword fight, but when am I getting in sword fights? 🤣
|
|
|
Post by RufusScorpius on Aug 30, 2023 14:37:02 GMT
Yes, carbon steel can also break. But does that mean all SS blades are therefore fine for swords because if they break, then it's "oh well, everything breaks"?
If that's the argument in favor of SS, then let's go to the absurd and instead of comparing SS to carbon steel, let's compare wood to glass. Sure, glass swords break, so does wood. But glass swords are sharper and therefore better. But wait, you say, wood is better because fine grain oak won't break as quickly as glass and is easier to repair, and you are willing to compromise sharpness for durability in a fight. Ok. But wait, glass is better than wood because balsa wood makes a terrible sword, therefore all wood swords are bad and tempered safety glass will shatter but not shard, therefore glass is better.
And round and round we go.
|
|
pgandy
Moderator
Senior Forumite
Posts: 10,296
|
Post by pgandy on Aug 30, 2023 14:54:11 GMT
I’ve hit on this when saying not all ss is the same, but couldn’t think of a specific type as AJ has. Windlass with their Cobra series has been using ss for some time and evidently is successful at it. Their Kopis has a 16” blade. You might ask sardaukar how his Kindjal Cobra is holding up. Some might say at 48HRC it’s too soft. CS has changed to ss with their HDSC sword cane and I’ve heard no complaints and have watched videos of people chopping away with it. However, I am glad that I bought mine early on when of carbon steel.
|
|
|
Post by mrstabby on Aug 30, 2023 15:34:07 GMT
I have seen videos on the new CS HDSC and it seems not to be as durable as the original carbon steel version (it bends quite easily for it's thickness). Also seems much harder to sharpen.
And about AEB-L, I'd count that as something you don't run into every day. I was thinking along the line of 400 or AUS series steels. Of course I would trust a AEB-L machete over a 440C one.
The Cobra Steel really piqued my interest but I am not sure, knowing they are only at 48HRC (they probably did that for toughness) explains people saying it loses its edge rather quickly. I might buy one when I get a good deal someday
|
|
pgandy
Moderator
Senior Forumite
Posts: 10,296
|
Post by pgandy on Aug 30, 2023 16:01:06 GMT
You’ve seen videos that I haven’t, which is not surprising. I’ve seen 3 concerning the ss HDSC, and they were positive. But I’m no fan of ss. I remembered after the start of this thread that I have a ss Camillus from my military days in my drawer that has served me well. It’s the third one of that model. I wore the first out, the second sprouted wings. I no longer carry it every day, because for the memories I find it irreplaceable. As for a 48 HRC, that can be an advantage. I have one machete and my antique kukris are of about that hardness. They are easy to maintain in the field.
|
|