|
Post by scorpion7976 on Aug 8, 2023 20:16:45 GMT
Hi, I'm new here. I recently became interested in swords after collecting knives for many years, and I bought myself two brand new Hanwei swords after reading that Hanwei was regarded as being one of the better budget sword makers around, and they are also readily available in the UK. I bought the Revolutionary War hanger and the River Witham sword.
The Hanger arrived and had roughly a 5 degree twist along the full length of the blade; the guard was bent to one side; and there were marks on the "antique" finished guard that had clearly been touched up with a brush after the fact.
The River Witham sword arrived today from a completely different supplier. It too has a roughly 5 degree twist along the full length of the blade. The two metal rings that go around the top and bottom of the handle are loose and jingle against the guard and pommel if the blade is bumped. You can also feel the one next to the guard move around when you grasp the sword. The leather handle wrap has a roughly 1 inch tear in it that has simply been glued back down, and the hole through the handle hasn't been drilled/milled straight because it looks wonky compared with the blade, and the pommel looks off because of it. My question is: are there any reasonable-quality sword brands/makers that are available in the UK under the £500 mark?
Thanks in advance.
|
|
|
Post by madirish on Aug 8, 2023 22:31:59 GMT
I have no direct experience with Hanwei....but those sound like a couple of duds that should be returned for exchange ASAP. The twist is probably par for the course, but the other stuff....nah.
|
|
|
Post by larason2 on Aug 8, 2023 22:52:53 GMT
All makers have their pieces that come with defects, and this seems to be a bit more common in the less expensive side of the spectrum. Hanwei is pretty well regarded, but I would say not so much for their western blades. Still, a twist in the blade isn't easy to fix, so for that alone it makes sense to send them back. The other problems with the finishing also are problematic, and I think merit them sending you a better example!
As for what other makers are available in the UK, it's not so easy! A lot of vendors have given up trying to ship to the UK. So I say keep trying with Hanwei. I think they'll get you better swords next time.
|
|
|
Post by tensho on Aug 9, 2023 2:45:44 GMT
Hanwei quality seems to have went down the drain. I purchased 2 hanwei Yari, and a Naginata within the same year(around a year and a half ago) there are issues with all 3. Crooked/dremel looking bo-hi, dremel looking engravings, uneven blade profiles, and poor finish to mounts. I'm not sure I'd ever buy anything new again.
|
|
|
Post by crazyjons on Aug 9, 2023 4:12:35 GMT
A twist in the blade is what I was commenting about in my thread about uneven grinds on repro katana.
It is the thing that bothers me the most because I can fix a loose guard or messed up handle but grinding enough to fix a warped or twisted blade would leave the sword much thinner. Not cool.
Sorry for your bad luck, you could consider it a blessing if it keeps you from spending more money!
Jon
|
|
pgandy
Moderator
Senior Forumite
Posts: 10,296
|
Post by pgandy on Aug 9, 2023 9:27:18 GMT
That’s not a good start to sword collecting. I have three Hanweis, all are oriental style swords, and all are well executed. QC wise absolutely no problems. I should point out that I obtained these roughly a decade ago, maybe slightly longer. Recently I’ve heard of problems. I would seriously consider sending them back, especially with twisted blades.
|
|
|
Post by mrstabby on Aug 9, 2023 9:59:22 GMT
I had problems with Hanwei as well. A Henry V sword that came so warped that it didn't fit in the scabbard. And my Oxtail Dao needed some things changed, a metal pin holding the fittings to the sheath protruded enough, that it made contact with the blade when sheathing and unsheathing. The fittings were also too tight and dulled the blade. These were a quick fix, the warped blade of the Henry not so much. I'd say their quality control has gone a bit downhill, the fit and finish, if everything is well, is better than Windlass in my opinion, but there are more duds from Hanwei out there than Windlass. Though I have had one from Windlass, the DeJoineville swords wooden grip was loose and the seller told me all of his 3 piesces had this. Loose enough for me to not trust it. Also it seems there are some shops, that buy cheap and sell cheap, these have the highest likelyhood of such things happening. If it sells for much less than in other shops, be cautious. Not specifically for Hanwei but more in general.
|
|
|
Post by swordfriend on Aug 9, 2023 11:26:46 GMT
I've owned five Hanwei katanas: Practical, Raptor Shobu, Bamboo Mat, Lion Dog, Practical Plus...and also two Bugei. The Practical and Shobu were made before the forge fire. Common defects are major saya rattle, scuffed blades (most probably due to saya rattle), inconsistent hamons (unevenly "polished" or runs very close to the edge), loose ito. Nowadays these defects are more features than defects.
|
|
|
Post by scorpion7976 on Aug 9, 2023 13:28:32 GMT
Thanks for the replies, all. It seems like a lot of you have had similar QC issues with modern Hanwei. It's a shame, because I particularly like the blade on the River Witham sword. It was the first sword that I was drawn to before I even did any research into any makers.
I've already returned the Hanger. I sent them some photos of the guard, and they had the sword collected free of charge, so that's good. and I'll be returning the Witham sword too.
Weirdly, on the box of the Hanger, it says that it was manufactured in 2016. I don't know why it has been hanging around for 7 years before being sold. Maybe other people have bought it and returned it too. Also, the Witham sword has 09/2021 as the date of manufacture, which was peak pandemic, so maybe I just got unlucky with two swords.
Does anyone know if the more expensive Hanwei swords are built any better, such as the William Marshall or Cawood sword? Or are they simply more expensive because they are built with more premium materials?
|
|
|
Post by scorpion7976 on Aug 9, 2023 13:39:14 GMT
Also, does anyone have any experience with Armour Class swords? Is the quality better than Hanwei's? I like their 13th-century arming sword. I've read that they have long wait times for the swords to be built, but with them being in Scotland, it's pretty convenient, and if the quality is good, I'm willing to wait.
|
|
|
Post by tweet on Aug 9, 2023 14:36:42 GMT
Yes, there is such a thing as returns. Lay the sword down flat and shoot some pictures, and measure. Is it the blade that is twisted, or the hilt on the blade? Share that with your seller and call CAS. I an not a Hanwei customer.
In lieu of returning, there are some that may offer a reduced price. That doesn't excuse the problem.
There is a reason less expensive swords have not grown to the expectations for swords costing twice, three, four and upward times the price generally have less problems.
Long ago, I had a phone order during a holiday season from a U.S. maker. It showed up early. Yay! I immediately saw the grip and guard were off center. I took the sword apart and fiddled a bit, the person fitting the pieces didn't check one more time. Swapping everything around, the fit of the handle was fine, as was the centering of the guard.
One shouldn't have to be buying kit swords to work on.
Overall, the complaints about Hanwei specifically and CAS jobbers at large represent a whole heck of a lot fewer complaints over the past 30+ years than we heard from Windlass (being the king of economy).
Take Arms&Armor in the USA. In 1998, one could find a handful of swords from them priced less than $400 Everything has doubled (and more) in price, while quality has not. All the arguments for better QC at the same price is going to fall on somewhat deaf ears from the producers, and to some extent the sellers. Kult of Athena has had to post several disclaimers basically telling buyers what everyone has posted as a Mantra 'You get what you pay for'. Blemishes and 'faults' can be expected, Bad swords can get overlooked. Usable swords at lower price scales, with those traits, can be loved as having character.
|
|
|
Post by tweet on Aug 9, 2023 14:48:08 GMT
Another note here and it might be worth looking closer. Some blades will have more meat on one side of the blade . Laying a blade flat can show if the edge is straight. That said, a corkscrew from heat treat is just that.
Someone on the British Isles can do a day trip to a vendor.
|
|
|
Post by scorpion7976 on Aug 9, 2023 16:22:25 GMT
Long ago, I had a phone order during a holiday season from a U.S. maker. It showed up early. Yay! I immediately saw the grip and guard were off center. I took the sword apart and fiddled a bit, the person fitting the pieces didn't check one more time. Swapping everything around, the fit of the handle was fine, as was the centering of the guard. One shouldn't have to be buying kit swords to work on. Good point. I've been watching some sword reviews, and it seems like a lot of swords by the larger makers (Windlass, Hanwei, etc.) have some form of quality control issue with the grip, guard, or pommel. Maybe having a pommel nut instead of a peen on these cheaper swords would be better, so you could fix the sword yourself. Like you say, you shouldn't have to, but it seems like everything is of lower quality these days. If this River Witham sword had a pomell nut, I would be able to fix the grip issues. Which brings me to the point: are there any arming swords below £500 that have a pommel nut?
|
|
|
Post by tweet on Aug 9, 2023 20:11:19 GMT
Look to the Hanwei Tinker Pearce line. Often backordered (containers/production).
Those have a recessed nut.
There are several single hand swords in that line.
|
|
|
Post by takitam on Aug 9, 2023 23:53:16 GMT
My advice is; Save some money, double your budget and get an Albion if you like swords. They are not perfect but most of the mistakes they make are in the minor and occasionally middle-weight category. Still the best sword replicas around, including many custom smiths.
Edit: And if you like the original River Witham sword, Albion Vigil is still the best Albion that I have handled. And if you don't like it, you should be able to trade it with another sword enthusiast for a different model or sell it without a loss.
|
|
|
Post by nddave on Aug 17, 2023 7:49:11 GMT
Long ago, I had a phone order during a holiday season from a U.S. maker. It showed up early. Yay! I immediately saw the grip and guard were off center. I took the sword apart and fiddled a bit, the person fitting the pieces didn't check one more time. Swapping everything around, the fit of the handle was fine, as was the centering of the guard. One shouldn't have to be buying kit swords to work on. Good point. I've been watching some sword reviews, and it seems like a lot of swords by the larger makers (Windlass, Hanwei, etc.) have some form of quality control issue with the grip, guard, or pommel. Maybe having a pommel nut instead of a peen on these cheaper swords would be better, so you could fix the sword yourself. Like you say, you shouldn't have to, but it seems like everything is of lower quality these days. If this River Witham sword had a pomell nut, I would be able to fix the grip issues. Which brings me to the point: are there any arming swords below £500 that have a pommel nut? My advice is go with what you like and try again. Unfortunately yes the budget production market can feed us more lemons than peaches, overall though it's the market with the most availability and variety. Another unfortunate is your location in the UK as that can hamper you availability to variety of choices especially if you decide to go up in price for a mid tier or upper tier manufacturer. Is going up in price a fail safe to a lemon? In my experience no it's not. But the consistency is stronger. But again you being in the UK does limit your options regarding vendors and manufacturers. From what I've understood and researched www.southernswords.co.uk is basically you guys' best bet in regards to a vendor with variety and good customer service. Maybe check out their stock and see if there's something you like, I know they sell a lot of different manufacturers' swords and have a lot of good Windlass models at good prices for the Pound to Dollar ratio. But regardless, if your budget only merits lower tier production swords or you're just starting out collecting, trying out various models and manufacturers sub $300-$400 is going to be your safest bet. You might have to deal with a few returns now and then (we all have especially long standing collectors) but overall you'll be spending less than the upper tier $800-$1000 swords. Also if you look at it literally or more statisticly, defective swords are usually a 1-2/10 ratio on average. So even if your recent Hanwei models were defective you have the 3-10 chance the next one of the same model will be better if not pristine for the price point. Just try not to get discouraged or black list manufacturers based on a single person's or even your own experience and look at the broader picture in regards to production swords.
|
|
|
Post by scorpion7976 on Aug 18, 2023 18:09:28 GMT
Good point. I've been watching some sword reviews, and it seems like a lot of swords by the larger makers (Windlass, Hanwei, etc.) have some form of quality control issue with the grip, guard, or pommel. Maybe having a pommel nut instead of a peen on these cheaper swords would be better, so you could fix the sword yourself. Like you say, you shouldn't have to, but it seems like everything is of lower quality these days. If this River Witham sword had a pomell nut, I would be able to fix the grip issues. Which brings me to the point: are there any arming swords below £500 that have a pommel nut? My advice is go with what you like and try again. Unfortunately yes the budget production market can feed us more lemons than peaches, overall though it's the market with the most availability and variety. Another unfortunate is your location in the UK as that can hamper you availability to variety of choices especially if you decide to go up in price for a mid tier or upper tier manufacturer. Is going up in price a fail safe to a lemon? In my experience no it's not. But the consistency is stronger. But again you being in the UK does limit your options regarding vendors and manufacturers. From what I've understood and researched www.southernswords.co.uk is basically you guys' best bet in regards to a vendor with variety and good customer service. Maybe check out their stock and see if there's something you like, I know they sell a lot of different manufacturers' swords and have a lot of good Windlass models at good prices for the Pound to Dollar ratio. But regardless, if your budget only merits lower tier production swords or you're just starting out collecting, trying out various models and manufacturers sub $300-$400 is going to be your safest bet. You might have to deal with a few returns now and then (we all have especially long standing collectors) but overall you'll be spending less than the upper tier $800-$1000 swords. Also if you look at it literally or more statisticly, defective swords are usually a 1-2/10 ratio on average. So even if your recent Hanwei models were defective you have the 3-10 chance the next one of the same model will be better if not pristine for the price point. Just try not to get discouraged or black list manufacturers based on a single person's or even your own experience and look at the broader picture in regards to production swords. Thanks for the reply, friend. I did go with Hanwei again based on anon's recommendation above (and my own research). I purchased the "Hanwei Tinker Pierce single-handed early mediaeval sword." I really like this style of single-handed arming sword. I ordered it about a week ago (the last one in the UK), and it arrived earlier today, and it's beautiful. The blade is a beauty; there's some slight rippling to it, and the fuller is a little snake-like on one side but nothing out of the ordinary for a hand-made blade; it adds character. The guard and pommel are well done and fit nicely. The scabbard is finished nicely enough and is arrow-straight. But... there's just one problem: when I hold the sword, the blade skews to the left, and when I flip the grip to the opposite side, it skews to the right, and it can be felt when handling the sword. When looking down the blade, the handle is clearly bent to one side. I removed the pommel and grip and looked down the tang, and it has an extremely pronounced bend to one side. I basically sound like an anti-Hanwei shill at this point. I can't win. I'm scared to bend it back in a vice in fear of it snapping the tang. I'll likely send it back. I'd love an Albion, as Takitam recommends above. From what I've read, they use CNC to machine the blades, which will remove some of the character of a hand-made blade, but if it guarantees a non-bent and twisted blade, then I'm in. I really like their "The Knightly Sword," which is relatively affordable compared with their other swords, and it just so happens to be my favourite amongst their entire range. But as you say, upper-tier swords are hard to come by here in the UK, and my only reservation is that I've had problems importing knives into the UK in the past from other countries, and swords will likely be no different. So for now, it's an option, but I have other plans. I emailed Armour Class from Scotland earlier about wait/build times for their "MS1 Medeivil sword" (similar pattern to the Huawei TP and Albion arming sword). They said 18 to 22 weeks. I guess I'll check back in January or February next year. lol.
|
|
|
Post by AndiTheBarvarian on Aug 18, 2023 18:43:07 GMT
That's really sad and incredible bad luck. I own 3 Hanwei Tinkers, 6 other Euros, ca. 7 Asian style Hanweis, not a single one had such issues or anything close to it. But I can't speak for the last year since June 2022.
|
|
|
Post by madirish on Aug 18, 2023 19:45:45 GMT
|
|
eastman
Member
Posts: 1,263
Member is Online
|
Post by eastman on Aug 18, 2023 19:46:48 GMT
... From what I've read, they use CNC to machine the blades, which will remove some of the character of a hand-made blade, but if it guarantees a non-bent and twisted blade, then I'm in...
They use CNC to machine the blade blanks. After heat treating the final finish grinding is all done by hand.
|
|