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Post by ranstone on Jul 28, 2023 6:58:38 GMT
Been trying Trewax (Essentially floor wax) instead of oil. It looks bad on a mirror finish, but is undetectable on a satin finish.
Why do I never see people using wax outside long term storage? It seems to me superior in every way for general maintenance compared to oil.
Is it possible I just never heard of this before? Or is there a reason people prefer oil?
Lemmy know your thoughts, I'm curious.
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Post by madirish on Jul 28, 2023 13:57:16 GMT
Rennwax is used for standard display pieces as well, not just long term storage. In my mind, if it is is not on display and is in long term storage, it will be oiled and wrapped, not waxed.
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Post by yelman on Jul 28, 2023 16:51:43 GMT
I use red grease on all my swords, leave them unwrapped, and have never had a problem with rust.
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mrstabby
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Post by mrstabby on Jul 28, 2023 18:42:35 GMT
Been trying Trewax (Essentially floor wax) instead of oil. It looks bad on a mirror finish, but is undetectable on a satin finish. Try heating the wax with a hair dryer after application, works wonders for RenWax. When it melts in it gets very shiny.
I haven't been using Wax much, always use oil or vaseline because its easier to get off when I used the sword to clean the dirt away or resharpen the blade when necessary. Cleaning the wax off of the cutting edge for sharpening scares me since I am prone to accidents.... But as I said, I haven't used wax much, still testing what I can do with it. Also I am not sure if I need to wipe all wax off when it gets scratched when cutting or if I can just put on another layer. Wiping off and reapplying oil/vaseline is just much quicker and easier. Also cheaper, food safe (pure carnauba wax would be food safe as well of course) and odourless.
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pgandy
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Post by pgandy on Jul 28, 2023 20:30:15 GMT
I use wax and oil, not to mention WD-40 which is not an oil, but not at the same time. I use wax on my machetes. WD-40 for sure after a cutting session involving water or plants, then something else. Some plants are acidic and I’ve seen rust minutes after cutting and WD-40 seems to combat this. However, for good measure I rinse with water first. My favourite is LPS3 but it’s not available in my country and very expensive to import. LPS3 has a 2-year guarantee against rust. One advantage to wax is that it is dry, and foreign particles don’t readily stick to it. Not only do I live in the tropics where rain and rust are an almost never-ending threat, the area is volcanic (5 active ones) and the dust aka pumice, an abrasive, seems to be everywhere.
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Post by ranstone on Jul 30, 2023 13:04:37 GMT
Sounds like using wax is a common technique and I was the one who was under exposed to it.
Funny story, I didn't have any microfiber cloths, and I tried merino wool... Don't use wool IMHO... leaves all sorts of fuzzies in the wax... A harmless mistake, but a lesson well learned.
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Post by Drunk Merchant on Jul 30, 2023 23:56:59 GMT
Been trying Trewax (Essentially floor wax) instead of oil. It looks bad on a mirror finish, but is undetectable on a satin finish. Why do I never see people using wax outside long term storage? It seems to me superior in every way for general maintenance compared to oil. Is it possible I just never heard of this before? Or is there a reason people prefer oil? Lemmy know your thoughts, I'm curious. lot of wax has funky additives. I wouldn’t trust them on antique swords or even guns. What has worked is using additive free acetone and additive free light mineral oil 50:50. Makes this really slick oil cocktail that spreads everywhere and evaporates and leaves a thin film of oil
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Post by gemini18 on Aug 3, 2023 23:19:09 GMT
For porous materials like wood and ivory, I'll use Renaissance wax...for anything metal, I use a light coat of remoil or silicone oil.
If it's going to be on display, I'll just do everything (wood/metal/ECT) with the Renaissance wax, as it doesn't look oily and I don't have to worry about it attracting dust or dripping.
I've never had a rust problem with wax or oil..the oil is just easier to apply which is why i dont use wax for everything.
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Post by larason2 on Aug 5, 2023 0:55:40 GMT
I use renaissance or conservators wax for tools, and mineral oil for swords. If I'm going to be touching the metal a lot, and don't care if it gets dirty, then wax. I wouldn't use anything other than renwax, and a little goes a long way. Mineral oil is cheap, easy to find and easy to apply, doesn't smell, lubricates well, and is food safe. Wax doen't really lubricate much, and renwax is really irritating if you get it in your eyes, and to some extent on your skin. On some tools, oil to lubricate and renwax for the outside. If I had some museum pieces on display, renwax all the way. But my swords are used! I just find it's easier to keep them clean with oil. There's no hard right or wrong though. Either are protective.
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mrstabby
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Post by mrstabby on Aug 5, 2023 8:39:19 GMT
Does anyone know if oil dissolves renaissance wax when it is polished and dried? Also can you repair scratches in the coating or do you need to remove the whole layer and reapply? I ask about the oil because I was wondering if I can wax the fittings but oil the blade since the fittings of my windlass swords rust like crazy but, for the same reasons as larason2, I like oil better on the blade.
I began using it only recently and I need to withdraw the hair dryer tip. It seems to get a nice coating the whole item needs to be warm, hair dryer only works on small stuff. Polishing seems to work nicely as well but it feels like there is a specific time to do it, after it has dried a bit but isn't completely cured.
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Post by pgandy on Aug 5, 2023 13:47:18 GMT
my windlass swords rust like crazy but, for the same reasons as larason2, I like oil better on the blade. The area on my Windlasses that give a rust problem is on the blade near the guard. Windlass puts a tension device at the throat of their sheaths. I don’t know how consistent the type of material is from sword to sword, but generally all cause rust, in some cases more so than others. Once the active rust is removed leaving black rust things stabilize. However, with my Ames M1840 NCO sword not so. I used every trick I knew, including clear finger nail polish. I was surprised that once it dried it was invisible. That rust was persistent. I finally beat it by inserting copy paper in the throat, both sides. I inserted the paper as an experiment extending it to the external brass, just far enough to grasp for removal and secured with transparent tape. The paper was so successful I’ve left in place as it is barely noticeable. My original idea was to remove it and if successful to insert permanently.
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mrstabby
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Post by mrstabby on Aug 5, 2023 14:19:03 GMT
my windlass swords rust like crazy but, for the same reasons as larason2, I like oil better on the blade. The area on my Windlasses that give a rust problem is on the blade near the guard. Windlass puts a tension device at the throat of their sheaths. I don’t know how consistent the type of material is from sword to sword, but generally all cause rust, in some cases more so than others. Once the active rust is removed leaving black rust things stabilize. However, with my Ames M1840 NCO sword not so. I used every trick I knew, including clear finger nail polish. I was surprised that once it dried it was invisible. That rust was persistent. I finally beat it by inserting copy paper in the throat, both sides. I inserted the paper as an experiment extending it to the external brass, just far enough to grasp for removal and secured with transparent tape. The paper was so successful I’ve left in place as it is barely noticeable. My original idea was to remove it and if successful to insert permanently. Yeah, there is a leather flap on mine that has constant contact and soakes off the oil, for me thicker stuff like vaseline worked in preventing this. I will try the paper as well, thanks.
I had a few rusts spots from this flap, but on my medieval swords and daggers the fittings, especially the pommels, are much more prone to rusting than the blade. I am currently trying renaissance wax on one. I have even been thinking of just cold blueing all of them if this doesn't stop it.
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Post by larason2 on Aug 5, 2023 14:27:49 GMT
Oil does dissolve away renwax, but I wouldn't let that prevent me from waxing up fittings! I use oil and wax on the same piece at times. Either protect from rust, so it doesn't bother me to lose a little bit of renwax from the oil. Usually it's just at the point of contact. You can tell because if you oil a renwaxed surface, the cloth comes away looking waxy (at least with mineral oil).
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Post by shinycanoe on Aug 6, 2023 0:20:50 GMT
I recently asked in a different thread if anyone has ever tried Eezox for swords, since it is easy to apply like oil, but then dries so it doesn't feel greasy or collect dust. I use it on steel tools, but not sure if it would be a good solution for something like a blade. Does anyone else have experience? I live in a very dry climate, so it's hard to say what works long term since anything stored inside doesn't really rust here anyway.
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Post by gemini18 on Aug 6, 2023 14:15:53 GMT
my windlass swords rust like crazy but, for the same reasons as larason2, I like oil better on the blade. The area on my Windlasses that give a rust problem is on the blade near the guard. Windlass puts a tension device at the throat of their sheaths. I don’t know how consistent the type of material is from sword to sword, but generally all cause rust, in some cases more so than others. Once the active rust is removed leaving black rust things stabilize. However, with my Ames M1840 NCO sword not so. I used every trick I knew, including clear finger nail polish. I was surprised that once it dried it was invisible. That rust was persistent. I finally beat it by inserting copy paper in the throat, both sides. I inserted the paper as an experiment extending it to the external brass, just far enough to grasp for removal and secured with transparent tape. The paper was so successful I’ve left in place as it is barely noticeable. My original idea was to remove it and if successful to insert permanently. I don't know if oil removes the wax.....but if it does, theoretically the part will now be protected by the oil, so I wouldn't expect any issues. As for touch up, yeah, you can just reapply, no need to strip the whole layer off...it's just like waxing a car.
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Post by larason2 on Aug 7, 2023 2:03:24 GMT
I'd avoid Eezox, as it has a solvent, same as I would avoid WD40. That being said, there are those who swear by WD40 for cleaning swords. I guess the solvent evaporates, and leaves the oil, but before it does, the solvent can potentially damage the finish, dissolving away some surface steel with the oxygen in the air. It's only there for a short time though, and if you've already exposed your sword to a solvent, you already know what effect it's going to have. I'd rather just oil it!
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Post by Mark Millman on Aug 7, 2023 10:34:39 GMT
Dear larason2, . . . the solvent can potentially damage the finish, dissolving away some surface steel with the oxygen in the air. . . . Could you explain the mechanism for this with a hydrophobic organic solvent? Best, Mark Millman
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Post by mrstabby on Aug 7, 2023 11:21:39 GMT
I don't think any normally used solvent can attack the steel, the solvents are chosen to be non agressive to metal in oils meant for metal. Basic gun lubricants are problematic to copper alloys and other less noble metals since they are designed to dissolve copper, lead and powder residue.
For WD40 there is a something to keep in mind: There are 3 different compositions (I mean for the multi function spray), the US, the Australian and the European version. US and Australian are pretty similar, but the EU version is almost 100% volatile chemicals with zero staying power. The EU version is only usable for cleaning and does not really protect against rust compared to otzher oil.
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Post by larason2 on Aug 7, 2023 13:31:21 GMT
pubs.acs.org/doi/10.1021/acs.chemrev.0c00917As I said, the solvent evaporates quickly, so the effect should be minimal, but surface finishes can have different components than just the steel. It also depends what other components are in the solution.
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Post by mrstabby on Aug 7, 2023 15:11:52 GMT
The solvents used with oils aren't organic, alkanes and cycloalkanes for the most part. The process cited in the paper works via chelation and acids, you won't get that with simple alkanes. The solvents used in these oil sprays won't react with metal, this would be exactly what you don't want with a substance meant for oxidation prevention, no? Wiping the blade once with water would do more damage to any metal.
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