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Post by Roscoe57 on Jul 18, 2023 14:31:41 GMT
Z-Sey Tuoyuan Katana MKIII Brief review. The only change I made was leather ito. My inspection revealed the following issues. 1. Slight ledge on the kasira. 2. Couple of high spots on the Hamon about mid way. 3. Biggest issue is the blade has a bend to it. Veering to the right. I had 3 other people look at it and the noticed it right away. Final test was with a straight edge. See pictures. 4. Very loose Habaki. Was not hand fitted. See video clip. 5. This is strange. You can straighten the blade and as the days pass it starts to veer to the right again. ¼ inch in 24 hours. No damage to the shipping box. Z-Sey was fairly quick in replies and had no idea why the blade was veering to the right. Saying it was straight when they shipped it. Since straightening the blade it goes into the saya with ease and fits like it should. Before it was lacking close to ½ inch to close. This was a discounted katana, due to a issue I had with a previous katana order. After they looked at the blade bend, the Tuoyuan was free. Next week I will straighten the blade again and cut some mats. Will I order another from Z-Sey? That would be a big NO. I have lost my faith in Z-Sey. 3 orders and two with issues. The blade problem is a major concern. More than likely the blade with be tossed and the parts used some place else. link to pictures
Very loose habaki Z-Sey Tuoyuan Katana MKIII specs. ——————————————- ■Tsuba:Iron ■F&K:White Copper ■Menuki:Brass Blackened ■Seppa:Brass Nickel Plated (Silver) ■Habaki:White Copper ■Tsuka:Handmade Tsuka(Haichi Style) ■Tsuka Samegawa:White Rayskin (Normal Emperor Node) ■Tsuka Ito:Leather Ito from Japan・Black(High Quality Hishigami) ■Mukugi:1 ■Kashira & Kurikata Shitodome:White Copper ■Saya:Hron Koiguchi、Kurikata、Kojiri ■Saya Style:黑石目塗り (Oil Lacquer) ■Sageo:Silk Sageo From Japan・Golden ——————————————- <Blade> ——————————————- ■Nagasa:71CM ■Motohaba:3.2CM ■Motokasane:0.7CM ■Sakihaba:2.4CM ■Sakikasane:0.4CM ■Sori:About 1.5CM ■Tsuka Length:26CM ■Bohi:No Bohi ■Material:Smelted Steel (improved by ourselves) ■Hamon Style:Suguha Style Hamon ■Blade Style:Shinogi Zukuri ■Heat Treatment: Clay Tempered ■Weight without Saya 2 lbs 2.2 oz -------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Post by vegah on Jul 18, 2023 16:55:38 GMT
Wow, that bend is crazy. If it bends after you straighten it, that's got to be an issue with the heat treatment, right?
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Post by rednax on Jul 20, 2023 10:30:03 GMT
Surprised that a blade with such a huge flaw made it to a customer. I find that the ledges and uneven diamonds are unacceptable at this price point. I would expect something like this from a lower end blade such as maybe a Hanbon, but not a Tuoyuan. The premium pricing should ensure that such issues would not be present. In my opionion, the koshirae/fittings though better in quality than lower end reproductions, is not the sole reason why I would pay a higher price for a Tuoyuan. I would pay more for better fittings but not by that much. The price of Z-Sey Chinese version sword (discontinued) is a good example of how much I would spend. But for the price of a Tuoyuan? I would also expect a higher level of quality assurance and workmanship. Proper heat treating, even diamonds, blade with proper shape, properly polished throughout, no ledges, proper fitting koshirae, etc… I have no clue as to the reason why it returns to shape after straightening but perhaps thats how it get through qc. I do understand that the bent blade would have been hard to detect as they said it was straight when they shipped it. But I still think Z-sey should up their QC department to prevent such swords from going out. Seems like a bad situation overall. On your end, your third sword has quite a serious flaw, your second sword is still not properly compensated. On Z-Sey’s end, had to compensate by giving a discount, failed to do so and had to refund. Sorry you had such a bad experience with them. I hope they plan to do something as technically they have not made up for your second blade. Also sorry about the long rant .
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Post by larason2 on Jul 20, 2023 14:15:07 GMT
I agree a blade that bent is very strange. Sometimes swords arrive bent to a Japanese togisho, but they bend them with their sword benders, and they stay straight. Perhaps it is another technique, (you would have to "over bend" a sword that is elastic to prevent it from bending back), but I agree they probably just didn't bother to check. I don't think that changes in humidity would make that much difference after the blade stabilized from the heat treat. It also seems strange to me that they would have sent a 2nd rate sword just because it was discounted. Cosmetic problems aside, the biggest flaw for me is that it didn't cut! If there's anything off about the koshirae, I can fix or replace them, but a sword with bad geometry or finishing might not be able to be corrected. Did you think the bad cutting was geometry or finishing on the sword? I'm also curious where the point of balance is.
I'd be interested in buying the blade off you if you're just going to toss it. It would be useful for me to practice polishing on. You can send me a private message.
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Post by Roscoe57 on Jul 20, 2023 15:30:23 GMT
Beleive I have fixed the bent blade issue on the 4th time of straightening it. Pushed it a bit to the left and now it is holding straight. Still a odd blade that wants to keep veering to the right. Bad heat treatment?
I agree with you on everything you pointed out. Over priced for what it is.
I have bought blems from Ronin, Dynasty Forge and Hanwei in better condition that this Tuoyuan. At a far cheaper price.
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Yagoro
Member
Ikkyu in Kendo and Kenjutsu Practitioner
Posts: 1,577
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Post by Yagoro on Jul 20, 2023 20:17:42 GMT
Beleive I have fixed the bent blade issue on the 4th time of straightening it. Pushed it a bit to the left and now it is holding straight. Still a odd blade that wants to keep veering to the right. Bad heat treatment? I agree with you on everything you pointed out. Over priced for what it is. I have bought blems from Rosin, Dynasty Forge and Hanwei in better condition that this Tuoyuan. At a far cheaper price. Tbh mine bent while cutting a mat that it shouldnt have bent on. However everything else i like about mine. Regardless, ill probably try and find a huawei or a used kaneie when this thing dies.
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Yagoro
Member
Ikkyu in Kendo and Kenjutsu Practitioner
Posts: 1,577
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Post by Yagoro on Jul 20, 2023 20:21:24 GMT
Beleive I have fixed the bent blade issue on the 4th time of straightening it. Pushed it a bit to the left and now it is holding straight. Still a odd blade that wants to keep veering to the right. Bad heat treatment? I agree with you on everything you pointed out. Over priced for what it is. I have bought blems from Rosin, Dynasty Forge and Hanwei in better condition that this Tuoyuan. At a far cheaper price. Tbh mine bent while cutting a mat that it shouldnt have bent on. However everything else i like about mine. Regardless, ill probably try and find a huawei or a used kaneie when this thing dies. Worst part is mine is the choji model which isnt folded, and I had them put full niku on it. Even tho the bend was very slight, the fact it bended at all kinda discouraged me from using it to cut tatami
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Post by Roscoe57 on Jul 20, 2023 21:42:31 GMT
I have asked Z-Sey about the steel type. The reply is Smelted Steel (improved by ourselves). Whatever this means. Could be 1045, who knows.
Blades that bend on mats isn't good. What size mat did it bend on?
Mat cutting next week.
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Yagoro
Member
Ikkyu in Kendo and Kenjutsu Practitioner
Posts: 1,577
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Post by Yagoro on Jul 20, 2023 23:55:23 GMT
I have asked Z-Sey about the steel type. The reply is Smelted Steel (improved by ourselves). Whatever this means. Could be 1045, who knows. Blades that bend on mats isn't good. What size mat did it bend on? Mat cutting next week. 128 inch tatami omote. Although tbf I don't think I soaked them enough. And the bend was pretty easy to straighten on my knee
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Post by rednax on Jul 21, 2023 1:10:28 GMT
I have asked Z-Sey about the steel type. The reply is Smelted Steel (improved by ourselves). Whatever this means. Could be 1045, who knows. Blades that bend on mats isn't good. What size mat did it bend on? Mat cutting next week. It seems like the general consensus online is that Z-sey’s non performance steel blades, meaning all those made of “smelted/crucible steel”, are not recommended for cutting. I’ve seen multiple reviews that agree that this is Z-Sey’s weak point. I personally feel like they need to do something about it, either changing to a better steel or better heat treating.
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Post by Roscoe57 on Jul 21, 2023 2:25:18 GMT
I have asked Z-Sey about the steel type. The reply is Smelted Steel (improved by ourselves). Whatever this means. Could be 1045, who knows. Blades that bend on mats isn't good. What size mat did it bend on? Mat cutting next week. It seems like the general consensus online is that Z-sey’s non performance steel blades, meaning all those made of “smelted/crucible steel”, are not recommended for cutting. I’ve seen multiple reviews that agree that this is Z-Sey’s weak point. I personally feel like they need to do something about it, either changing to a better steel or better heat treating. Sad the smelted/crucible steel is the main steel they use. With so many modern steels on the market, why use a steel that is outdated?
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Post by jyamada on Jul 21, 2023 3:24:47 GMT
It seems like the general consensus online is that Z-sey’s non performance steel blades, meaning all those made of “smelted/crucible steel”, are not recommended for cutting. I’ve seen multiple reviews that agree that this is Z-Sey’s weak point. I personally feel like they need to do something about it, either changing to a better steel or better heat treating. Sad the smelted/crucible steel is the main steel they use. With so many modern steels on the market, why use a steel that is outdated? Probably for aesthetics. IMO, they're just continuing and elevating what Simon Lee was doing. Nice looking blades (but with better mount and koshirae than SL) for collector types. They have a few models with S7 and LD but those are also just typical multi-purpose dimension/layout/geometry as well.
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Post by jyamada on Jul 21, 2023 3:39:35 GMT
I have asked Z-Sey about the steel type. The reply is Smelted Steel (improved by ourselves). Whatever this means. Could be 1045, who knows. Blades that bend on mats isn't good. What size mat did it bend on? Mat cutting next week. It seems like the general consensus online is that Z-sey’s non performance steel blades, meaning all those made of “smelted/crucible steel”, are not recommended for cutting. I’ve seen multiple reviews that agree that this is Z-Sey’s weak point. I personally feel like they need to do something about it, either changing to a better steel or better heat treating. I doubt they'll change what they're doing. People are buying the swords that they are comfortable making. If they want to get into the practitioner market, that will require a lot of work, investment, and research.
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Post by Roscoe57 on Jul 21, 2023 11:40:46 GMT
On FaceBook:
Zsey-China Due to continuous losses in our international retail operations, we are currently evaluating the possibility of suspending international retail business. However, our international wholesale operations remain unaffected.
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Post by Roscoe57 on Jul 21, 2023 13:38:52 GMT
Sad the smelted/crucible steel is the main steel they use. With so many modern steels on the market, why use a steel that is outdated? Probably for aesthetics. IMO, they're just continuing and elevating what Simon Lee was doing. Nice looking blades (but with better mount and koshirae than SL) for collector types. They have a few models with S7 and LD but those are also just typical multi-purpose dimension/layout/geometry as well. They stopped production for the S7 and LD. I have both. S7 awsome mat cutter. LD not that great of a mat cutter.
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Post by miraculix101 on Jul 21, 2023 14:18:29 GMT
Sad to hear Roscoe57, that you got a very expensive banana from z-sey. And a damm shame, that they removed their great steels (S7/LD and there was 1 or 2 other ones) completely from their inventory. Guess it was too expensive for them, to let them be forged. I meanwhile received my custom made S7 from them, and i am very happy about it. Looks and feels great. If i find the time, ill post it here under reviews. Like i said before, a shame that they removed the good steels and the chinese made katanas from their inventory
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Post by Roscoe57 on Jul 21, 2023 16:38:05 GMT
Sad to hear Roscoe57 , that you got a very expensive banana from z-sey. And a damm shame, that they removed their great steels (S7/LD and there was 1 or 2 other ones) completely from their inventory. Guess it was too expensive for them, to let them be forged. I meanwhile received my custom made S7 from them, and i am very happy about it. Looks and feels great. If i find the time, ill post it here under reviews. Like i said before, a shame that they removed the good steels and the chinese made katanas from their inventory Yeah my S7 is the best one from them and the cheapest, even though they got the end knots on the wrong sides.
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Post by Roscoe57 on Jul 21, 2023 20:37:33 GMT
On FaceBook: Zsey-China Due to continuous losses in our international retail operations, we are currently evaluating the possibility of suspending international retail business. However, our international wholesale operations remain unaffected. More from Z-Sey: Due to our PayPal account being frozen, we issued refunds to many customers who had already received their orders, hoping they would make new payments. However, a significant portion of these customers did not proceed with the new payment. Additionally, the low number of orders and losses incurred during shipping further contributed to the financial challenges. The development and operation of our products required substantial funding. As a result, we had to disband our operations team, and our Facebook and YouTube pages have not been updated for a long time.
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Post by captainharlock on Jul 22, 2023 22:05:46 GMT
On FaceBook: Zsey-China Due to continuous losses in our international retail operations, we are currently evaluating the possibility of suspending international retail business. However, our international wholesale operations remain unaffected. More from Z-Sey: Due to our PayPal account being frozen, we issued refunds to many customers who had already received their orders, hoping they would make new payments. However, a significant portion of these customers did not proceed with the new payment. Additionally, the low number of orders and losses incurred during shipping further contributed to the financial challenges. The development and operation of our products required substantial funding. As a result, we had to disband our operations team, and our Facebook and YouTube pages have not been updated for a long time. So it sounds like they are folding shop? Wow. Pretty pathetic though for people getting refunds and not paying for their product. Low class and stealing. I absolutely hate PayPal and I only use it as a last resort for payment.
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Post by captainharlock on Jul 22, 2023 23:32:24 GMT
To the OP, that bend is pretty severe and I don’t think I have ever seen a sword with a bend quite like that being delivered and it is a serious QC issue for sure. Sorry that happened to you. It’s always fun to get a sword or anything that you have really wanted in the mail. But to have that flame extinguished by opening the package, I know truly sucked for you.
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